VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[KirbyKaze]

He grows up to be the hottest elf looking thingy and then saves the world. Im pretty sure hes not evil.

 

[Jethrotex]

The pig on his belt is still alive and gives you helpful tips like when to Up-B out of shield.

 

[Rosedemon]

The only piece of advice it should give is "breathe in and arch your back"

 

[Jethrotex]

You're right, that applies to everything anyways.

 

[KirbyKaze]

oh yeah speaking of videos

can i get some critique on my gameplay here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8W-1LBgszU

Only watched the match on Dreamland.

Your spacing and positioning at the beginning is really, really weak. It gets a bit better as the match goes on, but in general I think you're letting yourself get into a lot of dangerous positions. It looks like you're trying to wait for Fox to fall on top of you when you're airborne & underneath the platform, but that's really not a good idea. He has too many options in that situation and all you can really do is throw a move out to try and catch him preemptively.

In general, it looks like you're attacking pretty independently of what the opponent's doing. There are some good moments where it seems like you're actually responding to the Fox and simultaneously holding good spacing, but you need to control yourself more and spot openings in the opponent's offense (and defense, I guess, but it generally looks like you're the defender so let's not worry about this one right now). This Fox's timings are kind of weak and he doesn't really bait you as hard as he could (or move around your hitboxes, or beat them with Fox's crazy bair & up tilt, etc, etc) but your style of play here nonetheless isn't really solid and it basically looks like you won because the Fox started herp derping after a while.

I'll do a longer critique at some point. Alternatively, we can talk on AIM (which I'd prefer) because I think you'd probably absorb the ideas better there than if I just type out every little thing I see (it also saves me time, because then you can rewatch and see where the main mistakes are, rather than me typing all of it out for you).

 

[DoH]

Friendlies with Cactuar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxLIDoy9544

Teams friendlies with Chillin vs. Cactuar/Dr Peepee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJVPGzpywUE

 

[john!]

Only watched the match on Dreamland.

Your spacing and positioning at the beginning is really, really weak. It gets a bit better as the match goes on, but in general I think you're letting yourself get into a lot of dangerous positions. It looks like you're trying to wait for Fox to fall on top of you when you're airborne & underneath the platform, but that's really not a good idea. He has too many options in that situation and all you can really do is throw a move out to try and catch him preemptively.

In general, it looks like you're attacking pretty independently of what the opponent's doing. There are some good moments where it seems like you're actually responding to the Fox and simultaneously holding good spacing, but you need to control yourself more and spot openings in the opponent's offense (and defense, I guess, but it generally looks like you're the defender so let's not worry about this one right now). This Fox's timings are kind of weak and he doesn't really bait you as hard as he could (or move around your hitboxes, or beat them with Fox's crazy bair & up tilt, etc, etc) but your style of play here nonetheless isn't really solid and it basically looks like you won because the Fox started herp derping after a while.

I'll do a longer critique at some point. Alternatively, we can talk on AIM (which I'd prefer) because I think you'd probably absorb the ideas better there than if I just type out every little thing I see (it also saves me time, because then you can rewatch and see where the main mistakes are, rather than me typing all of it out for you).

this is pretty helpful, thanks kk. i'll try to work on this

 

[KirbyKaze]

You should add me on AIM or similar so I can talk to you about some important things that will make you better.

 

[Rosedemon]

Dont, its a trap.

Hes just gonna preach the gospel to you.

 

[Bing]

The Gospel according to KK?

Sounds legit.

 

[DoH]

Where is my critique

 

[baka4moé]

^ i will wait for mine as well? guess ppl are busy

 

[ShroudedOne]

I dunno, I feel like I say stuff too much for you, Baka (lol).

And I'm not worthy to critique DoH. o_o

Plus, I'm not good, haha.

 

[baka4moé]

^ lol what does that mean haha? and ill take any advice i can get, other perspectives are always nice.

although i guess it would be nice to get advice from other people as well (maybe thats what u meant?)

 

[ShroudedOne]

I dunno. That's part of it. I'm just being silly, I guess.

I'll look at some point tomorrow, probably.

 

[Strong Badam]

DoH: From what I saw it was mostly edgeguarding that you need to work on. A few times where you should have simply hogged, a few times where you go for nairs against Firefox when a spaced Fair is the correct option (saw you try it a few times on BF though. and drop down -> turnip throw on FD was pretty cute). Dunno, maybe Cactuar is a lot better at mixing up his recovery than most foxes? Seemed like you were catching on to it more later
also I think you should try to use turnips more during neutral. whenever you DO use them at neutral you use them well, so I think it'd work out. it can be hard to find time/room to pluck against a speedy Fox though

 

[EPsilon933]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdmNuwzIB8#t=0m16s

How did I drop this turnip? Turnips can't be dropped during floats, right?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Thats what a vidjo drop is. Immediately after doing an aerial you can drop/throw a turnip even if you are floating. Usually I've seen it done as dair->drop but theoretically all aerials should work

 

[_eternal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdmNuwzIB8#t=0m16s

How did I drop this turnip? Turnips can't be dropped during floats, right?

I don't play Peach so I'm not sure but it was probably this.

 

[Paju]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8OPkGiYhg#t=8m20s

Anyone care to explain why the turnip hit twice? Isn't the turnip supposed to lost its hitbox after the first hit?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ im not sure tbh

 

[john!]

probably something to do with falco's weird side-b hitbox/hurtbox

 

[ShroudedOne]

Looks like the turnip collided with the hitbox/hurtbox of Falco's side B, so it does that clank thing where if it hits something, it can still drop and hit something again. Dunno how exactly to explain it, but it happens when people sway away our turnips incorrectly, too (like sometimes a turnip that Marth/Puff swats will still hit them). Just so happens that it collided in a way to recreate that while hitting Falco the first time.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

well it didn't clank because clanks deal no damage

 

[mers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8OPkGiYhg#t=8m20s

Anyone care to explain why the turnip hit twice? Isn't the turnip supposed to lost its hitbox after the first hit?

This is entirely speculation and not grounded in any sort of reality, but here's a guess:

Maybe it takes a few frames for the turnip to lose its hitbox when it hits someone. Like, maybe it's connected to the thing where momentum stacks if you hit someone twice in quick enough succession? So a turnip can hit someone twice within 10 frames?

I feel like it would happen a lot more if that were true though. Dunno.

EDIT: it definitely made the little circle animation that happens when things clank.

 

[Bing]

mers I wish I could see the rest of your signature

 

[ShroudedOne]

............

User CP > Edit Options > Thread Display Options > Signature Display Style

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Can we chaingrab roy? He is kinda a fastfaller.

 

[Rosedemon]

You can chaingrab any non-spacie/falcon as long as they dont DI your downthrow.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I meant with up throw and i am pretty sure u knew that.

I was playing a roy the other day and grabbed him at 0 up threw him and got a re grab. Just not sure if it was true or he messed up

 

[The Irish Mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay4F3FWbyz8
guys guys look what I did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lkucKpKWTc
He then proceeded to absolutely beat my *** for 2 sets of grand finals with shiek. I'm not sure if it was the MU or the stage or something, it felt possible with peach but I just couldn't quite pull through. I think I need to be more creative with my turnip control. I also don't think I was wding back properly, i mean, i was doing it, just not spacing it right. It's hard to get away from sheik once you're in DA range because you can't really use peaches slow *** jump, you generally won't outprioritize her if you're facing her and she's grounded, and shielding sucks because, well, if they're not dumbtarded they'll grab. Maybe I can groundfloat retreating nair oos? retreating fair?
I only play peach the first game of both sets of GF's (the 2nd link), so if you want to give me critique and not watch the whole set, just watch those games.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Irish: i watched your win vs kdj yesterday and first off nice job, 2nd its clear to me u got the marth mu down.

I started watching your gf's set but stopped b/c to me it was clear u didnt know the sheik mu very well. From what i saw i felt like u were being to aggressive and didnt space well enough in the mu, and there was some other stuff but i am not great at explaining what i want to say, plus i am busy right now and dont have the time.

Still 2nd place is really nice good job, plus u did get to gf's in winners which is great as well. So next time u will take it

 

[Rosedemon]

I meant with up throw and i am pretty sure u knew that.

I was playing a roy the other day and grabbed him at 0 up threw him and got a re grab. Just not sure if it was true or he messed up

Dont get snide with me because you cant specify what you mean.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Dont get snide with me because you cant specify what you mean.

Dont gif me just b/c u cant understand something which is implied

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can CG DK and Roy (iirc) from 0-26 or something. With up throw.

Maf I'm not sure what to tell you, but I think floating OOS is probably a good idea to experiment with.

 

[Rosedemon]

Dont gif me just b/c u cant understand something which is implied

At what point does your question imply that you are upthrowing this roy?

Shiek is a semi-fast faller and she can be downthrow chaingrabbed.

Falcon is a real fast faller and he can be downthrow chaingrabbed.

Insinuating that I cant understand something that isnt there isnt really fair bro.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

At what point does your question imply that you are upthrowing this roy?

Shiek is a semi-fast faller and she can be downthrow chaingrabbed.

Falcon is a real fast faller and he can be downthrow chaingrabbed.

Insinuating that I cant understand something that isnt there isnt really fair bro.

Well for one as u pointed out dthrow is not a true chain grab since it can be di'ed, so why would anyone ever talk about it as if it was a chaingrab?

2nd i in my 1st post called roy a fastfaller which puts him in the same category as fox,falco,and falcon. Which implies i am talking about a cg which involves them i.e up throw

Edit: also i wasn't being snide i thought u knew what i meant and that u where making a joke

Also @kk thanks for the answer, i am kinda surprised by dk being able to be cg'ed

 

[Rosedemon]

Well for one as u pointed out dthrow is not a true chain grab since it can be di'ed, so why would anyone ever talk about it as if it was a chaingrab?

2nd i in my 1st post called roy a fastfaller which puts him in the same category as fox,falco,and falcon. Which implies i am talking about a cg which involves them i.e up throw

Edit: also i wasn't being snide i thought u knew what i meant and that u where making a joke

Also @kk thanks for the answer, i am kinda surprised by dk being able to be cg'ed

If you're talking about chainthrows that can be DI'd out of then there are very few that are "true" because they can all be DI'd out of. The chainthrow on Falcon only works to like 50ish before he can jump out.

Secondly, your reference to Roy as a fastfaller could also exempt him from the chainthrow argument if I assume you're talking about using the downthrow chaingrab instead of the upthrow version.

I'll relinquish the notion that you were being snide, but my above statements still stand. Your post wasnt specific dear.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon goes to 79 or something.

 

[ShroudedOne]

77.

But you can probably get away with doing it until 80.