VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Veril]

Does anyone still "Peach pillar"?

I haven't even tried to use this since akaik people can escape between the Jab and nair.

Is it actually useful? I'm bad sooooo not sure whether it is worth incorporating.


Too much homework

 

[Rosedemon]

Its mainly useful on lowtiers because they cant get out of it. I know it for sure works on Doc and Link.

I use it sometimes against high tiers out of habit and it works surprisingly well.

 

[crush]

veril goes hard with them facts.

 

[choknater]

can't doc upB to escape?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

cant you like... shield grab it after the jab?

 

[DoH]

Yes, and buffer roll. Peach is slow

 

[ShroudedOne]

I used to think that FC nair > jab was a good mixup, but I've never done it. And now I never will. I like getting people with FC nair shield pressure, cause they can roll out of it, but it catches them by surprise (sometimes).

 

[DoH]

Fc to jab is great against characters that like to jump out of shield, like Peach, Sheik, and Fox

 

[Rosedemon]

can't doc upB to escape?

Yea, but unless you're on yoshi or you're good at up-b cancelling, Peach can still punish you.

 

[john!]

jabbing is just bad now. if you do it on shield, people will grab/punish you, and if you do it on them, they will cc it and punish you. only useful as an occasional mindgame.

the best guaranteed follow up to an fc aerial on shield is dsmash most of the time. grab and dash attack can work too.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I want to experiment more with FC nair > dash behind them >

Seems like it could be viable.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i hope peach players abuse their mini gentlemen. The second jab has a strong enough knockback to beat CC. Obviously % dependent but yeah.

 

[Rosedemon]

Exactly what Sveet said. If I know they're going to shield grab I just do the 2nd jab.

Mixups guys, use them.

 

[john!]

can't spacies shine oos between your jabs? and can't everyone else roll away?

 

[Rosedemon]

Why are we assuming rolling away is bad?

Falco forces most characters to roll away, so why is that bad with Peach?

When people have to roll away from you, you're pressuring them. Pressure forces them to play by YOUR rules and can also cause them to make mistakes. Take advantage of that. Read the rolls and keep up the pressure.

 

[john!]

list of things falco can do to people who roll away during his pillar: laser, sh nair, sh dair, grab, jab, ftilt, fsmash...

list of things peach can do to people who roll away during her "pillar": ............control a bit more of the stage. woohoo.

you're really comparing falco's offense to peach's offense?

 

[Rosedemon]

Im comparing their results.

The ***** rolled you accomplished EXACTLY what Falco (and Fox, and Shiek, and Falcon, and Jiggs) did. Now read that roll and follow up, if you cant you're still controlling the pace of the match at that point.

Forcing them to roll is not a bad thing, dont use it as one.

 

[john!]

of course it's not a bad thing, i just don't see why you would jab to try and force a roll when you have better options like dsmash.

 

[Composeur]

A good mixup is always useful, as long as it's not very punishable.

 

[DoH]

What do we do when you force people to land on a platform?

Float under and uair/nair
Jump up and uair/nair
Up smash/up tilt
Waveland downsmash

 

[VA]

What do we do when you force people to land on a platform?

Waveland downsmash

just gotta say that there is a technique that makes this redundant. you can insta dsmash on platforms by timing your double jump so that it cancels you on the platform with 0 lag = insta dsmash. I think it works similar to the peach wdash thing with DJC, i.e she goes down a little bit in the start up and you can use this to DJC onto platforms with 0 lag.

I can't really explain it better than that but it really does make waveland dsmash seem **** to me.

I was going to keep this for myself and pioneer it but I really have quit peach.

 

[thesage]

just gotta say that there is a technique that makes this redundant. you can insta dsmash on platforms by timing your double jump so that it cancels you on the platform with 0 lag = insta dsmash. I think it works similar to the peach wdash thing with DJC, i.e she goes down a little bit in the start up and you can use this to DJC onto platforms with 0 lag.

I can't really explain it better than that but it really does make waveland dsmash seem **** to me.

I was going to keep this for myself and pioneer it but I really have quit peach.

I call this DJ landing. All djc characters can do this.

 

[MacD]

of course it's not a bad thing, i just don't see why you would jab to try and force a roll when you have better options like dsmash.

stop being dumb

jabbing is used to stop jumps/shield grabs/rolls after a fair. m2k was all upset the jab would hit before the invincibility frames when he would roll

maybe alan never corrected you cause he misread or didn't care to, but he doesn't jab the shield forcing someone to roll. what it should do is make them stop jumping/shield grabbing, which could lead them to rolling. if they start rolling, he follows up on that and stops jabbing (i had this in caps and in my mind i'm shouting this at you but meh)

Exactly what Sveet said. If I know they're going to shield grab I just do the 2nd jab.

Mixups guys, use them.

and then the biggest part of his post, shall we read it again, only in bigger font now?

Mixups guys, use them.

idk how many times we have to say this, but there is always, ALWAYS, a way to get around thing X that character Y is doing to you

we've told you guys this for like over a year now at different times, but alas, you guys still insist that we are saying "omg, jabbing their shield OP, best option ever." LIKE NO DUDE, just because alan only gave an instance where he likes using it and not the millions of way to counter it (like wait, shield grab after, roll, etc) doesn't mean it's the best option/best idea

and really bro, shy of like sheik's roll, if you read it you can punish it at the very least with a dash attack. even sheik's roll i think you could with dash attacks but she's a w**** with her 20 mile long roll.

i think that covers it all....... if not i'm sure alan can fill in the missing pieces for me

 

[ShroudedOne]

I've followed a few rolls before as Peach. It's weird, sometimes they roll, and then see me running after them, and then shield, giving me a free grab. It still surprises me how well Peach is able to instill "fear" (or caution) in her opponents. I've dash attacked, too.

Down smash after an aerial is normally the best option, but I've had my followup down smash avoided, and then been punished for it (whether that was me sucking, or them just predicting, I don't know), but I sometimes like playing weird cause it's fun, and throws people off. We don't have as many mixups as I'd like, so I'd like to at least know of them all (even if I don't remember to use them).

My two cents, anyways.

EDIT: Why'd you quit Peach, VA?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Exactly what Sveet said. If I know they're going to shield grab I just do the 2nd jab.

Mixups guys, use them.

and then the biggest part of his post, shall we read it again, only in bigger font now?

Exactly what Sveet said.

fix' d

 

[crush]

fix' d

sveet ur a loser

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Dont be a bully crush

 

[crush]

Dont be a bully crush

im not a bully im just saiyan, youre a loser oolmonke

 

[ShroudedOne]

*sigh* Crush.

It's weird when your smash friends come to you and say, "I need Peach practice." Like, I'm the only Peach among us, too. Feels very weird.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

crush im gonna tell

 

[crush]

*sigh* Crush.

It's weird when your smash friends come to you and say, "I need Peach practice." Like, I'm the only Peach among us, too. Feels very weird.

thats because you play a hipster character

@sveet lol you have nobody to tell unless you mean my mom in which case please dont

 

[john!]

jabbing is used to stop jumps/shield grabs/rolls after a fair. m2k was all upset the jab would hit before the invincibility frames when he would roll

maybe alan never corrected you cause he misread or didn't care to, but he doesn't jab the shield forcing someone to roll. what it should do is make them stop jumping/shield grabbing, which could lead them to rolling. if they start rolling, he follows up on that and stops jabbing (i had this in caps and in my mind i'm shouting this at you but meh)



and then the biggest part of his post, shall we read it again, only in bigger font now?



idk how many times we have to say this, but there is always, ALWAYS, a way to get around thing X that character Y is doing to you

we've told you guys this for like over a year now at different times, but alas, you guys still insist that we are saying "omg, jabbing their shield OP, best option ever." LIKE NO DUDE, just because alan only gave an instance where he likes using it and not the millions of way to counter it (like wait, shield grab after, roll, etc) doesn't mean it's the best option/best idea

and really bro, shy of like sheik's roll, if you read it you can punish it at the very least with a dash attack. even sheik's roll i think you could with dash attacks but she's a w**** with her 20 mile long roll.

i think that covers it all....... if not i'm sure alan can fill in the missing pieces for me

i never said it was useless, and i never said you thought it was the best option. i just said there was a better option most of the time. i jab sometimes out of fc aerial, but i dsmash far more often because it's guaranteed and it's very hard to punish. jab does not guarantee anything and many characters can punish it.

i can know how to play peach without being a top player. no reason to call me dumb when you can't even read my posts.

 

[mers]

You realize they can roll after the aerial and before the dsmash comes out, right? When that happens, you blew any advantage you had from them rolling, cuz you gotta wait on dsmash to finish.

The whole point of jab is that it stuffs roll. It is one of many options you can use to punish a roll.

Dsmash punishes other things, like grab (though nobody should be grabbing anyways), aerial/jump OOS, etc.

My favorite shield pressure with Peach: FC fair/nair to turnip pull. Once you have them conditioned to not try anything aggressive OOS, it's a hilarious but surprisingly effective option. If they roll, use the turnip to follow up. If they hold shield, do lagless Peach stuff and make them lose.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

people rolling away is one of the better things that can happen
rolling away is people surrendering litterally half their stage control for neutrality, but we all know what peach does with space control
for those who don't know, she becomes really ****ing scary and people begin to do stupid **** like throw out bad counterattacks or roll back towards you etc
the important thing is being safe through the entire exchange, as peach you really only have 3 high commitment moves, being dsmash grab and dash attack, everything else you do, including just floating around and not even dropping, makes people fear you and your space control

 

[DoH]

Wavelanding allows you to follow tech rolls in a direction or even push them off the platform into the dsmash

 

[VA]

Wavelanding allows you to follow tech rolls in a direction or even push them off the platform into the dsmash

cancelling your jump in the middle covers any tech direction on certain platforms and allows eliminates a lot of the need for reacting.

 

[Veril]

cant you like... shield grab it after the jab?

Yes.

i hope peach players abuse their mini gentlemen. The second jab has a strong enough knockback to beat CC. Obviously % dependent but yeah.

<3 Second jab. Its so much better than the first jab (other than as a reset).

just gotta say that there is a technique that makes this redundant. you can insta dsmash on platforms by timing your double jump so that it cancels you on the platform with 0 lag = insta dsmash. I think it works similar to the peach wdash thing with DJC, i.e she goes down a little bit in the start up and you can use this to DJC onto platforms with 0 lag.

I can't really explain it better than that but it really does make waveland dsmash seem **** to me.

I was going to keep this for myself and pioneer it but I really have quit peach.

LOL Double jump cancel land on a platform wasn't new when I mentioned it, and it suuuure isn't new now. Cape told me about DJC land last year, when I was just transitioning from being bad at brawl to being bad at melee. I'm sure the veteran peach players all know about it. The turnip guide mentions DJC landing iirc and I do as well in the data thread.

DJC land on a platform is better framewise sometimes, partly because you've got 10 frames of landing lag with an airdodge vs. instantly transitioning into the wait animation (assuming you aren't inputting anything on the land frame). If you waveland back off the platform though, there goes that lag. So both have their uses. You are right in saying that DJC Land to dash attack or d-smash on a platform is flat out better than wavelanding into them.

I love DJC land. Its so great. Much like my school week ending on thursday. Nursing clinicals are crazy hard. Today was especially so, but cause of HIPAA keep all the stories to myself.

I have to decompress with geekery and stuff.

 

[Wake]

It's all about the FC Fair to grab peoples.

 

[Veril]

FC anything (except dair) to jab works on everyone's shield, anytime the FC is fast enough. FC -> Grab on shield almost always works (and imo is often the best option vs shields), but buffer roll/spotdodge technically is a way out (other than for characters that are bad). You can't roll or spotdodge out of the first jab on shield, if jumping usually means getting hit by the second jab, which may combo into grab anyway because they can't have CCed it. Or you know... dsmash. Oh dsmash

 

[Rosedemon]

Note to self: starting arguments and insulting people is the best way to get this thread back on topic.