VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[MacD]

i'm very upset that your link isn't clickable

but that reminds me of me and zhu vs eggm and cactuar from p5

good times lol

 

[choknater]

this thread is crazy

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

FYI i've been lurking this thread

 

[Wake]

haha Peach in doubles is so awesome.

 

[MacD]

this thread is crazy

loooool

you know you love us andre

 

[The Irish Mafia]

was scrolling up and saw that gif, somehow knew it'd be alan, lol
i do agree with that post though, thinking you'll win is the first step to winning imo

 

[Saux]

so lets say i just happen to be picking up peach. anybody got some super helpful general knowledge on how to **** falcos with her?

 

[ShroudedOne]

so lets say i just happen to be picking up peach. anybody got some super helpful general knowledge on how to **** falcos with her?

Well, I guess I'll try noting some things (helps me think about matchups more).

1) Chain grabs (with her upthrow)
2) If you get the timing right, you can nair OoS his shield pressure
3) Bair/Dair/Nair to ledgeguard
4) CC downsmash
5) Dash attack

I think those are pretty solid, but I'm probably forgetting some things. Wavedash backwards OoS seems to work pretty well, too, but I'm not sure if that's **** in and of itself.

 

[MacD]

so lets say i just happen to be picking up peach. anybody got some super helpful general knowledge on how to **** falcos with her?

the opening post has a lot of the general knowledge you need on how to fight most characters if you haven't looked there already

 

[thesage]

Your melancholy mood is annoying me, stop ending all your posts with "im bad".

This goes for everyone: I dont care how ****ty you are, your input and contributions are always welcome when discussing certain topics (unless you're jfox).

Specifically for you, you almost always have useful information, and you need to start giving yourself some more credit.

I wanna address you by your real name and talk some sass into you, but I cant. So imma just leave you with this gif of awesomeness.

Sorry I was just trying to be funny.

God I even suck at that...

In all seriousness though, what do you guys do about the Marth matchup? I just throw turnips, dash attack and run under his full hops.

Also, I am become umbrella warrior.

Edit: Like 50% of all Ness players, my name is Max lol.

 

[Wake]

I like the Marth matchup. I used to hate it, but I really think Peach can do it. I think Fox and Falcon are tougher...

 

[Zankoku]

Hi, I suck. Can I get some tips? thx

vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtQQ_iT-D8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkNO2MwlIEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aVAGTs5ZF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DI1G8izT0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySIhmiPWEI

 

[Teczer0]

Truth Reverie? .... *confused*

I didn't watch much, but you dsmash to cover your track too often. Like if you bair or something and you whiffed it you'd hope your opponent tries to punish you and get hit by the dsmash.

Try just running away and look for CC dsmash opportunities instead.

But yea, I only watched like a part of a vid so.

 

[EPsilon933]

I like the Marth matchup. I used to hate it, but I really think Peach can do it. I think Fox and Falcon are tougher...

Maybe Fox might be more difficult. But Captain Falcon? NO WAY! Our anything out prioritizes his everything. We edge guard him for guaranteed kills. We get a few comboes on him too. All you have to do is not fall for dash dance camps

Marth is def' Peach's 1st or 2nd most difficult matchup. Marth plays right and spaces right, you can't get past his sword easily. So limiting

 

[baka4moé]

ugh i hate marth so much HHHHHGGGGGGGGGNNNNNNN

i have no idea how to get in, is it better to just wait for him to approach? im guessing its also almost always a good idea to trade hits, esp if he's above you? and im always so scared of the tipper that i just di in like an idiot and get comboed even more.... definitely my worst mu by far...

 

[Wake]

I dunno, that's the toughest part for me, the DD camping from Falcon, though it is getting better. I think the Marth matchup is really fun and interesting...

 

[ShroudedOne]

Personally, I hate the Peach/Falcon matchup, but it's certainly easier than Peach/Marth. I'm just bad with Falcons. I think part of the Peach/Marth MU might be attacking in the cool down of his own aerials. Otherwise, it's really difficult for Peach to get in. It seems to be a good idea to use dash attack to push him up. Being under Marth seems to be a good idea (though I could be really wrong).

 

[EPsilon933]

Being under Marth seems to be a good idea (though I could be really wrong).

And Marth trying to be under Peach. That sums up the matchup, imo

 

[Composeur]

I hate the Marth matchup. It frustrates me more than any other because it's simply so difficult to get close to him if he's spacing properly. He can ledgeguard her way more easily than falcon can. His fsmash has more range than her ****ing roll for christssakes. I am with ShroudedOne here. I'm so afraid of getting tipped that I DI in and get comboed for 70% and then edgeguarded. Across the stage? Oh, of course, I'll pull a turnip! Oh, wait, I just got fsmashed even though I was nowhere near him...AND I lost my turnip. Even if I manage to get away with pulling a turnip, even if I try to mix up how I use it, it's still so difficult to be in a position to follow it up without simply getting baited.

****er.

Someone HELP. Please.

 

[EPsilon933]

I hate the Marth matchup. It frustrates me more than any other because it's simply so difficult to get close to him if he's spacing properly.

There's always dash attack. Easily her best move to get passed any character's spacing game. Sadly, sometimes that's the best you can get. If you 2 end up neutrally standing next to each other, I'd recommend trying a jab. It seems to beat, or hit sooner than, a lot of Marth's moves. I've stopped plenty of fsmashes like this

He can ledgeguard her way more easily than falcon can.

For the recovery, go high and aim for a (top) platform. Platforms help you play a guessing game of will you land on the platform or on the main floor below it. On Final Destination, aim for the ledge by either recovering from below. You have a pretty disjointed hitbox to protect you. If you predict a ledge hog, you can recover to land on the floor. What can Marth do to respond? Knock you further in the direction you were going (to the center of the stage). Or if you've umbrellaed and are level or slightly above level with Marth, (fast) fall a little bit then move to the ledge. Peach's recovery is a series of 50/50 guessing games. Will you recover high or low? When, or if, will you fast fall your umbrella? Do you want to get over and passed the edgeguarder?

His fsmash has more range than her ****ing roll for christssakes. I am with ShroudedOne here.

His fsmash is difficult to get passed. Try staying outside of his its reach, then surprise him with a dash attack. The trick is surprising him. If you shield an fsmash, it's pretty punishable, unless it's a tipper (distance and shield stun makes the timing window much smaller). Short hop nair/fair out of shield. If he misses, you might have a chance to run in and dtilt (leads into comboes like uair. Marth in the air isn't a happy Marth)

I'm so afraid of getting tipped that I DI in and get comboed for 70% and then edgeguarded. Across the stage?

DI'ing away to avoid getting hit by the tip is counter intuitive

Oh, of course, I'll pull a turnip! Oh, wait, I just got fsmashed even though I was nowhere near him...AND I lost my turnip.

If he knows you always want to keep far enough away to pull turnips, don't pull turnips. Fight without them

Even if I manage to get away with pulling a turnip, even if I try to mix up how I use it, it's still so difficult to be in a position to follow it up without simply getting baited.

Turnips are to help force him to approach. It's a spacing tool to get stuff like short hop turnip > float fair. Or you can mix it with float fair > turnip (more difficult to hit with). Peach doesn't really combo too well. If they're too far away, pull a turnip?

What I think I know

 

[Composeur]

Thanks. You know, I do appreciate the help. Some of what you say is common sense that I just have trouble implementing because I'm just not as good at spacing--or any other part of the game--as my friend who I usually play with. Some of it is stuff I don't realize I have to practice, like the parasol; I just realized a few minutes ago practicing that there are two different falling speeds when she has her parasol closed, so that adds even more nuance to it. <--n00b

I think jabbing like you say is probably a good idea. I"ll try to implement it.

 

[baka4moé]

holy crap peach has two falling speeds with her parasol closed!?

someone please tell me how this works, I am a noob o_0

 

[MacD]

i'm pretty sure i knew that at one point, but to make, sure i just did some quick like 2 min testing

one's a fast fall, one isn't

simple enough

though some TAS stuff might give a more accurate description but yea

also i wish i could give advice vs characters but yea, i also hope you guys are reading the OP cause there is always the basic there

 

[baka4moé]

so is it done by like, tilting vs. smashing the control stick down?

 

[ShroudedOne]

UsurperKingZant, you say that Peach has a disjointed hitbox to protect her when recovering low, and she does, but I always get tippered by Marth's forward smash when I recover low. It might just be me not sweetspotting it exactly, but if that's the case, then that's rather challenging to do.

 

[EPsilon933]

UsurperKingZant, you say that Peach has a disjointed hitbox to protect her when recovering low, and she does, but I always get tippered by Marth's forward smash when I recover low. It might just be me not sweetspotting it exactly, but if that's the case, then that's rather challenging to do.

Error on my part. Marth can hit you with his fsmash. It reaches below the floor pretty well. Hope for him to mistime it? I haven't tested this, but how techable is it?

 

[Zankoku]

About as techable as anything else with lots of hitlag that sends outwards.

 

[Composeur]

So that means quite realistically techable, right? The more hitlag, the easier? Well, I guess that's just if you SDI it. Assuming that one consistently comes very close to sweetspotting, is ASDI always enough to ledge-tech in this sort of situation? Does anyone know what circumstances necessitate full SDI?

And yes, with the parasol, the "regular" fall speed (which is difficult to do quickly, at least for me right now) is from gently tilting down to drop, and the fast-fall happens when you tap down. It's most obvious if you're just closing the parasol for a split second before opening it again; if you manage to not fast-fall, you can close it and just barely drop at all before you open it again.

Ankoku, I was never aware that you even played Peach. Now I hear you're placing in tourneys with her??

 

[Zankoku]

lots of hitlag - gives you more time to SDI
sends outwards - requires SDI, because you will not otherwise collide with the wall

 

[Cia]

Hi, I suck. Can I get some tips? thx

vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtQQ_iT-D8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkNO2MwlIEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aVAGTs5ZF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DI1G8izT0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySIhmiPWEI

I've seen a lot of Brawl Peach players inspired by Melee Peach style, but your Peach is the first I've seen that appears to be inspired by Brawl. It was pretty refreshing. I liked the short-hop Bairs + Dtilts. With that said, I think you could have chosen better moves in a lot of situations. An example of this is when you landed grabs on the Falcon, I noticed you were doing Uthrow > Fsmash. That really isn't going to get you anywhere in the fight. Uthrow > Nair or even Uthrow > Uair > Nair would have given you more damage, and would have put Falcon offstage. You always want to think "How can I make the most of this situation."

I also noticed that you do a lot of dash dance > dash attack. The Falcon player caught onto this as well and he started to punish you for it. So i would just say work on switching up your approach. Maybe condition your opponent to think you're gonna dash attack, and do a dash grab instead.

Other than that, just work on your speed and combo set ups and you're good to go.

 

[Zankoku]

That's actually pretty funny to hear, since my Brawl Peach is a late pickup and I've been maining Peach in Melee since '07. Though, I've been playing lots of Brawl recently compared to Melee, so I wouldn't be too surprised if a lot of my Brawl habits/tendency to punish specific kinds of mistakes bled through as of late.

Did I really try to uthrow fsmash? Oops I've accidentally uthrow ftilted before when wanting to dash attack, but not sure about fsmash, haha.

And yeah, dash dance > dash attack seems really one-dimensional now that I consider that. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[MacD]

so i just saw clips of my would be combo video

like half the clips were me just like ftilting 3-4 times in a row and then killing them, it was quite funny to me, sad but funny

 

[Quaz]

Ankoku..... .....

*shudder*

 

[john!]

omfg quaz don't even remind me

LOL

 

[Cia]

MacD were we supposed to team for Genesis?

 

[MacD]

i had brought up the idea, you said you weren't sure if you could go, don't think we've talked about it since

but i'm down if you are still down

 

[The Irish Mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWRsVZupBtc&feature=feedu
everyone's favourite European, going to work

 

[Cia]

i had brought up the idea, you said you weren't sure if you could go, don't think we've talked about it since

but i'm down if you are still down

yeah I'm gonna start looking @ ticket + hotel prices.

btw, Those Armada vids were good as always.

 

[thesage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWRsVZupBtc&feature=feedu
everyone's favourite European, going to work

Oh my god wut. I can't even comprehend what he's doing. Somebody (good) analyze it.

Macd?Vanz?DoH? One of you do it.

Edit: or KK, I forgot about him

 

[Composeur]

His Peach looks more insane than ever. Were those fc nairs against Randomness's Marth so fast that he wouldn't have had time to even buffer a roll away?

Edit: After consulting with the Peach PTB, it seems fc nair has a frame advantage of +4 when hitting someone's shield and it comes out on frame 3. I don't know how many frames into her jump she can pull her nair out but I imagine it's not the first frame, so even with completely perfect execution there would be time for Marth (or whoever) to at least start a move. He gains invincibility from his roll on frame 4, so possibly it could be quick enough. His spot dodge gives him invincibility on frame 2, but obviously leaves him vulnerable for 9 frames of lag afterward.

I suppose this has been written about before, but I really have no clue how to find it with the forums' search function.