darkNES386
Smash Lord
Legend:Updated,Older Posting
Current Discussion:
10.04.08: Ok so this thread didn't start in the direction I intended, but maybe it's good we covered Sonic play styles first. What I really want to see happen now is someone brings to the table A PERSON who they are struggling when playing against. Provide the username, the character they use and a brief description of the problem. From there we have two options:
Wifi Option: If this person plays online then other Sonic Mains can challenge them and it can be discussed what works and what doesn't work. Keep in mind that the physics and properties of brawl characters are the same online as offline, so while certain strategies might not work as well... we can still demonstrate what you should hope to achieve.
Offline Option: Mostly this will be a more indirect approach since we won't necessarily be able to play against that specific person.
We should have no problem handling multiple players at once so don't hesitate to bring another player to the table. I'll do my best to play people and record matches (when wifi related) and I will be bringing some of my own opponents to the table for everyone to help me with.
Above all else, please do not turn this into a flame/junk topic and respect the problems that other Sonic players are having. Remember that everyone is not at the same playing level, and if someone wants to improve they have to be open to constructive criticism.
Original Post: This is thread is a response to Tenki's Learn to Player Thread. This thread will also have a similar feel toJaybee's Lab. so if anyone feels I'm being redundant, be aware that I have thought this threw and that I do not create new threads very often.
I haven't bothered updating the Sonic guide much lately and I'm starting to think that one of the topics I had been working on in it deserves its own thread to improve quality discussion.
I would like to see two things happen through this thread:
1) We generate a list and summary of various opponent play styles and how to best handle them.
2) If a Sonic main is having issues with a specific opponent (and that opponent is comfortable playing online*) they can request that other Sonic mains attempt to play this person. Videos or even discussion can the allow for everyone to see how the situation is best handled.
The lack of well known/good Sonic mains at the tournament scene is slowing the advancement of Sonic's game. If we can get this going I believe that we can really help increase everyone's knowledge of how to play proactive as Sonic against opponents.
Example: I played Matador's Mario a couple weeks ago. He told me that I played extremely different from Tenki (which is very true) and that my Sonic appeared to use tilts more to punish his short hop approaches. Matador made it very clear that Tenki and I played "different." My different was better suited to fight his Mario.
So someone post right now with an idea for a fighting style or the name of a specific brawler that they want other Sonic mains to attempt to fight and we can go from there.
*I am fully aware that online has its difference from offline. The fact remains that in general the physics of Brawl and properties of attacks remain the same.
---------------------
Jaybree's Sonic Fighting Styles (open for improvement):
Combo type: This kind of Sonic plays very agressively, aiming to get the most out of all of his attacks to extend the combo as much as possbile. because of this they tend to overextend themselves, which can lead to disaster, more so then the other types. Though they can kill faster, the chance of making errors increase, meaning they may be killed just as fast.
Ground type this kind of Sonic player loves tilts, Jabs, Dash A, and Spins. These types tend to be really good with footsies, and have a keen eye for when to dodge, making them more difficult to grab. The only problem is, that this takes lots of skill, since Sonic's close up game is not great due to low priority.
Air type: These Sonic players are very skilled in particular with the Spring Jump, the ASC and its mixups, as well as having an advanced recovery set. it is harder to kill these Sonics than others, due to thier tendancy to Spring jump, or Spin Shot to safety. They use this to close the gap and initiate combos as well, revolving around the aerials. they will mix up with ASC>grab to keep you honest. However, the weakness of this is that predictability must be kept very low, or you may get punished severly once you land. In addition, Sonic is more vulnerable in the air in most cases due to lack of priority and his slow fall speed. though this player knows that and can nullify this to an extent, the issue still remains.
Grappler type: These Sonics use grabs, pummels and throws as thier primary offense, switching to other moves like smashes to mix it up. they understand sonic's speed well, and use it to close the gap quickly to punish on lag. After the throw, they are very solid at techchasing for more grabs, and mixing them up with smashes to keep the opponent honest. The one thing to really worry about, is that if the opponent takes the aerial approach to counter or plays keepaway often, then this sonic player cannot capitiolize as much, and must resort to other tactics. In addition, this type is very stage dependant.
Edge type: Once this Sonic player gets an opponent of the ledge, it become very difficult for the opponent to get back on, despite percentage. Sonic is a good gimper, but this player makes him annoyingly so. He is very solid in all edgegaurding tactics, from instant edgehog to Dair Spike> Homing attack, as well as wall bouncing and teching to prevent getting spiked himself. He goes for grapples near the edge, in hopes of stage spikes often, and is just as knowledgable with recovery as an air type. he is also equally as good getting back after getting knocked off, but in a more defensive manner than the Air type. if the opponent stays in the middle of the stage and is good at keepaway, then this type has issues.
Punish type: This is more of a balanced sonic, that utilizes his speed, and is very good with mindgames to create an opening for himself, rather then waiting for the opponent to make an unforced one. Once this Sonic gets it, he makes the most of it, with all of his moves. This one is very adapatble, defensive one moment, and agressive at any moment. because he uses many of his moves multiple times to punish, like the bair or the Fsmash, this weakens the attacks when its time for the kill. But this type is good at using most if not all methods of KOing to compensate.
Camper type: This Sonic can be considered the "slowest" of the Sonic types due to its more patient playstyle. It utilizes a lot of bairs, f tilts, and other movements to outmanuver and make the opponent commit unforced errors, which will lead into more subsequent damage from combos, throws, etc. This may not work if the opponent can get Sonic off balance with thier offence well, either by using overwhelming offense (MK) or an annoying projectile game (ROB) But against characters that need to get closer, sonic can use this style to his advantage and dictate the flow of the match and time. you will see many empty jumps, Foxtrorts, and other movements the use sonics dash to play outside of the opponents maximum range, forceing them to advance, or become very campy themselves, allowing the Sonic to slowly pick them apart.
Now what I propose is, based on this info (which can be altered; its not set in stone aka plz comment) is that we send in vids or we look at vids of Sonic players as a whole, and determine from them what thier primary types are, in a 1,2,3 format. meaning, you could be a " Ground/Grapple/Edge" type, which would mean you are very dependant on your ground game, and may need to balance it with your aerial game, or maybe a "Grapple/Punish/Combo" type, which would sorta mean that if you are really good at forcing you opponent into mistakes, and making them pay in almost any situation.
Current Cases:
Resolved Cases:
Current Discussion:
10.04.08: Ok so this thread didn't start in the direction I intended, but maybe it's good we covered Sonic play styles first. What I really want to see happen now is someone brings to the table A PERSON who they are struggling when playing against. Provide the username, the character they use and a brief description of the problem. From there we have two options:
Wifi Option: If this person plays online then other Sonic Mains can challenge them and it can be discussed what works and what doesn't work. Keep in mind that the physics and properties of brawl characters are the same online as offline, so while certain strategies might not work as well... we can still demonstrate what you should hope to achieve.
Offline Option: Mostly this will be a more indirect approach since we won't necessarily be able to play against that specific person.
We should have no problem handling multiple players at once so don't hesitate to bring another player to the table. I'll do my best to play people and record matches (when wifi related) and I will be bringing some of my own opponents to the table for everyone to help me with.
Above all else, please do not turn this into a flame/junk topic and respect the problems that other Sonic players are having. Remember that everyone is not at the same playing level, and if someone wants to improve they have to be open to constructive criticism.
Original Post: This is thread is a response to Tenki's Learn to Player Thread. This thread will also have a similar feel toJaybee's Lab. so if anyone feels I'm being redundant, be aware that I have thought this threw and that I do not create new threads very often.
I haven't bothered updating the Sonic guide much lately and I'm starting to think that one of the topics I had been working on in it deserves its own thread to improve quality discussion.
I would like to see two things happen through this thread:
1) We generate a list and summary of various opponent play styles and how to best handle them.
2) If a Sonic main is having issues with a specific opponent (and that opponent is comfortable playing online*) they can request that other Sonic mains attempt to play this person. Videos or even discussion can the allow for everyone to see how the situation is best handled.
The lack of well known/good Sonic mains at the tournament scene is slowing the advancement of Sonic's game. If we can get this going I believe that we can really help increase everyone's knowledge of how to play proactive as Sonic against opponents.
Example: I played Matador's Mario a couple weeks ago. He told me that I played extremely different from Tenki (which is very true) and that my Sonic appeared to use tilts more to punish his short hop approaches. Matador made it very clear that Tenki and I played "different." My different was better suited to fight his Mario.
So someone post right now with an idea for a fighting style or the name of a specific brawler that they want other Sonic mains to attempt to fight and we can go from there.
*I am fully aware that online has its difference from offline. The fact remains that in general the physics of Brawl and properties of attacks remain the same.
---------------------
Jaybree's Sonic Fighting Styles (open for improvement):
Combo type: This kind of Sonic plays very agressively, aiming to get the most out of all of his attacks to extend the combo as much as possbile. because of this they tend to overextend themselves, which can lead to disaster, more so then the other types. Though they can kill faster, the chance of making errors increase, meaning they may be killed just as fast.
Ground type this kind of Sonic player loves tilts, Jabs, Dash A, and Spins. These types tend to be really good with footsies, and have a keen eye for when to dodge, making them more difficult to grab. The only problem is, that this takes lots of skill, since Sonic's close up game is not great due to low priority.
Air type: These Sonic players are very skilled in particular with the Spring Jump, the ASC and its mixups, as well as having an advanced recovery set. it is harder to kill these Sonics than others, due to thier tendancy to Spring jump, or Spin Shot to safety. They use this to close the gap and initiate combos as well, revolving around the aerials. they will mix up with ASC>grab to keep you honest. However, the weakness of this is that predictability must be kept very low, or you may get punished severly once you land. In addition, Sonic is more vulnerable in the air in most cases due to lack of priority and his slow fall speed. though this player knows that and can nullify this to an extent, the issue still remains.
Grappler type: These Sonics use grabs, pummels and throws as thier primary offense, switching to other moves like smashes to mix it up. they understand sonic's speed well, and use it to close the gap quickly to punish on lag. After the throw, they are very solid at techchasing for more grabs, and mixing them up with smashes to keep the opponent honest. The one thing to really worry about, is that if the opponent takes the aerial approach to counter or plays keepaway often, then this sonic player cannot capitiolize as much, and must resort to other tactics. In addition, this type is very stage dependant.
Edge type: Once this Sonic player gets an opponent of the ledge, it become very difficult for the opponent to get back on, despite percentage. Sonic is a good gimper, but this player makes him annoyingly so. He is very solid in all edgegaurding tactics, from instant edgehog to Dair Spike> Homing attack, as well as wall bouncing and teching to prevent getting spiked himself. He goes for grapples near the edge, in hopes of stage spikes often, and is just as knowledgable with recovery as an air type. he is also equally as good getting back after getting knocked off, but in a more defensive manner than the Air type. if the opponent stays in the middle of the stage and is good at keepaway, then this type has issues.
Punish type: This is more of a balanced sonic, that utilizes his speed, and is very good with mindgames to create an opening for himself, rather then waiting for the opponent to make an unforced one. Once this Sonic gets it, he makes the most of it, with all of his moves. This one is very adapatble, defensive one moment, and agressive at any moment. because he uses many of his moves multiple times to punish, like the bair or the Fsmash, this weakens the attacks when its time for the kill. But this type is good at using most if not all methods of KOing to compensate.
Camper type: This Sonic can be considered the "slowest" of the Sonic types due to its more patient playstyle. It utilizes a lot of bairs, f tilts, and other movements to outmanuver and make the opponent commit unforced errors, which will lead into more subsequent damage from combos, throws, etc. This may not work if the opponent can get Sonic off balance with thier offence well, either by using overwhelming offense (MK) or an annoying projectile game (ROB) But against characters that need to get closer, sonic can use this style to his advantage and dictate the flow of the match and time. you will see many empty jumps, Foxtrorts, and other movements the use sonics dash to play outside of the opponents maximum range, forceing them to advance, or become very campy themselves, allowing the Sonic to slowly pick them apart.
Now what I propose is, based on this info (which can be altered; its not set in stone aka plz comment) is that we send in vids or we look at vids of Sonic players as a whole, and determine from them what thier primary types are, in a 1,2,3 format. meaning, you could be a " Ground/Grapple/Edge" type, which would mean you are very dependant on your ground game, and may need to balance it with your aerial game, or maybe a "Grapple/Punish/Combo" type, which would sorta mean that if you are really good at forcing you opponent into mistakes, and making them pay in almost any situation.
Current Cases:
Resolved Cases:
it'd be good if a good Sonic actually competes 