Up-10.04 Matching Your Sonic Game to your opponent's play style

[ROOOOY!]

So yeah, I was going to make a thread, basically a "How to deal with Gay Moves" thread. Like, discuss one more that severally hampers Sonic at a time, and update it onto the OP.
However, this thread is much better.

How do you beat a Bite happy Wario?

 

[thecatinthehat]

Dash > shield cancel SD > roll behind Wario. Puts you in an amazing postion. Free F-smash anyone?

 

[Tenki]

So yeah, I was going to make a thread, basically a "How to deal with Gay Moves" thread. Like, discuss one more that severally hampers Sonic at a time, and update it onto the OP.
However, this thread is much better.

How do you beat a Bite happy Wario?

If he likes to sit with Bite open:
Run at him > screech stop > up-tilted F-smash
(close range) Charge SD > shield cancel > up-tilted F-smash

I think it might be possible to tip D-tilt too.

 

[Boxob]

Alright Dnes I watched that first video of you against that rob, you need to use tilts more, especially at lower percents where it doesn't knock them back far, it helps keep pressure, which is your second weakness.

 

[Hitaku]

Dnes:

I noticed in your first video (00:21) when you got thrown off the ledge at the start you kept trying to pressure your way back by attacking instantly. Robs attacks come out faster than yours. When he follows you like that you need to DI away to position yourself for an attack/recovery. You use the spin-shot a lot for an approach. While it worked a good deal of the time, if you do it too often they will see it coming. If they are expecting it, it's pretty easy to punish.

Your play-style is pretty interesting. You are really aggressive, yet you don't tilt hardly at all lol. One thing that really stands out to me is that you try to hit them after missing your initial attack without re-spacing yourself first. If you are going to attack again without spacing first, you really need to use those tilts. I prefer to just space myself the proper distance away before using a follow up attack. I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say this, but Sonics priority is just too bad for us to do it any other way (unless they are really slow/their character is really slow). Who knows lol, maybe I'm just way to defensive. =P

The last thing I can suggest is Spin-cancel approaches. Rather than spin-dashing from the ground all the time, run at them and use it from the air at a diagonal angle. It will do more damage and it provides a better combo setup if it hits. If you think they are going to shield it just cancel and grab. It really works wonders for me, I recommend you try it.

That's all really just general play-style advice. If I were to try and give advice for Rob in specific...bair works well for me. His fair comes at a downward angle so it's pretty simple to space out. If he tries to camp you back with his own bairs just punish him for the lag. This Rob doesn't really seem to ever bair => dsmash, but if they do I just shield they whole thing and tilt at the end of the dsmash.

 

[Napilopez]

I like your Sonic dNES, but as others have said, you should tilt more XD. I think as general advice to Sonic mains, substitute fsmash with ftilt at lower percentages. I can recal at elast a couple of time where if you had ftilted ather than fsmashed, you would have connected, not to mention that tilts set up for grabs easily.

Rob is a character I generally am not as grab happy as I may be with other chars, probably because of their tendency to spam Spotdodge>Dsmash, although this Rob wasn't very crazy about that.

Your biggest weakness in this matchup IMO was when it came to fighting in the air. In the ground you handled him well, but his nairs seriously hit you hard, and you had troubles offstage. I would recommend not using homing attack for recovery whenever you'r opponent is offstage, only use it if your opponent is standing on the main platform as a quick way to recover. This is to reduce the risk of being hit out of your HA, something that's especially risky in this matchup thanks to ROBs Nair. The most important thing is to ger back up on stage; I often saw you try to attack ROB, and then get on stage, when your primary concern should just be recovering, especially since Jonbe has a strong gimp game.

Also, ese SH fair more from the ground, Rob is large and gets sucked into ur Fairnado pretty easily. Also, I would actually encourage a bit more spin charge against this specific ROB, because he is not gyro happy(did he even use it at all?) The best Rob has against a spin charge is his laser, which you can get past pretty fine. Umm remember you can shield from a foxtrot with SideB cancel. I didn't see you follow up your ASCs with an aerial a few times, so that was some damage opportunities you missed. Be careful with the angle of your ASC, try to make it so that you are entering with a 45 degree angle with respect to ROB, as othrwise you may be grabbed or hit out of it.

Charge fsmash more. You will hit with one fully charged fsmash per match, guaranteed XD. Its the best counter against spot dodgers, and its awesome for opponents who are trying to recoer and then airdodge.

I'm not sure exactly how well dtilt combos work against ROB, but you could have tried some dtilts to utilts.

I saw you use sideb shield cancelling, but you only used it from far away, more to just cancel the SideB rather than for any actual purpose. You should consider using it as a mind game approach, and it powershields alot.

Thats it for now XD.

 

[darkNES386]

Thanks for the pointers everyone. I really want to throw up some matches of this Marth I play regularly online, but the lag was really bad on his end the other day so playing was next to impossible.

 

[Catt]

Samus! D:<

I've been having problems with a friend's camping Samus for a while, probably a solid losing streak in Sonic vs Samus battles for 2 months now. Anyway, I've been training to "style change"(Megaman Battle Network 2 reference) easily and as close to flawlessly as possible so I'd be hard to read. I played against him yesterday in 3 stock matches, after more "style change" training. I told him that I should be able to handle his camping. He didn't belive me. He started with Captain Falcon and I owned him so bad that he got angry and switched to Samus(thinking haha guaranteed win), the time I was waiting for had arrived. I beat him by changing my style so frequently that on top of my mindgames he couldn't read me.
I would switch from fake pursuit> air> ground> grapple> air combo> gimp> edge gaurd> intercept> and then start over but with random mix ups. My Sonic was a Swiss Army Knife on roller blades in hedgehog form.

I beat him with one life left and 112% damage on myself. I was a life behind him with 112% and scored a second KO, so he was at 1 stock, 0%. I mingamed him into a combo trap. 3 successive dtilts> fair> fair> bair to other side of FD> dash across FD intercept with more combos, and when I looked at the percents he was tied with me at 112%. I let him float towards the edge and intercepted him with a fair for game.
I just combo ***** him the second match I got him down to 1 life left before he KO'd me once. I grabbed him and back threw him off of the right of FD and faked an intercept to make him air dodge and miss his oppurtunity to to recover above the stage, I let myself float downwards and used my double jump right when he used his screw attack. I blocked off the ledge and he died at 23%, well he would of but he got so frustrated that he cancelled match. I just laughed triumphantly. Another victory for Steak!

Sorry for ridiculously long post. The point is "style changing" is very important to beat problem characters and problem players.

 

[Hitaku]

Sonic was a Swiss Army Knife on roller blades.

This comment is full of win. =P

 

[Catt]

Yes

This comment is full of win. =P

Yes. Yes it is.

We need more Swiss Army Hedgehogs entering tournaments.

 

[Tenki]

I've been having problems with a friend's camping Samus for a while, probably a solid losing streak in Sonic vs Samus battles for 2 months now. Anyway, I've been training to "style change"(Megaman Battle Network 2 reference) easily and as close to flawlessly as possible so I'd be hard to read. I played against him yesterday in 3 stock matches, after more "style change" training. I told him that I should be able to handle his camping. He didn't belive me. He started with Captain Falcon and I owned him so bad that he got angry and switched to Samus(thinking haha guaranteed win), the time I was waiting for had arrived. I beat him by changing my style so frequently that on top of my mindgames he couldn't read me.
I would switch from fake pursuit> air> ground> grapple> air combo> gimp> edge gaurd> intercept> and then start over but with random mix ups. My Sonic was a Swiss Army Knife on roller blades in hedgehog form.

I beat him with one life left and 112% damage on myself. I was a life behind him with 112% and scored a second KO, so he was at 1 stock, 0%. I mingamed him into a combo trap. 3 successive dtilts> fair> fair> bair to other side of FD> dash across FD intercept with more combos, and when I looked at the percents he was tied with me at 112%. I let him float towards the edge and intercepted him with a fair for game.
I just combo ***** him the second match I got him down to 1 life left before he KO'd me once. I grabbed him and back threw him off of the right of FD and faked an intercept to make him air dodge and miss his oppurtunity to to recover above the stage, I let myself float downwards and used my double jump right when he used his screw attack. I blocked off the ledge and he died at 23%, well he would of but he got so frustrated that he cancelled match. I just laughed triumphantly. Another victory for Steak!

Sorry for ridiculously long post. The point is "style changing" is very important to beat problem characters and problem players.

That's long?

>_>

On a somewhat related note, the one round that I lost in my first tourney was against Samus.

He might have won if he only stuck with Samus the whole time instead of switching chars trying to find a counterpick. I didn't know that D-air was lagless D:

 

[JayBee]

ICHI : Intergalactic Continental Hypercactive Instrumental

horray!!! people are listening to my ideas!!!

anyways, it's good hear your imrovement Catt. from what you say, it sounded like the improvement was immediatye though, or at least easy to see the fruits of it. that true?

And Sonic is the Intergalactic Continental Champion. I'm gonna prove it with a combo vid of my own, so I'll let you know about it when I'm close to done.

 

[Niko_K]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194526
KingAce will be there, along with;
JL: beast wario
percon: really good i believe, kirby/snake
NikoK: one of the best peaches anywhere
and other crazy good ppls
show up.

I third this notion. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Chis]

I third this notion. Thanks for the compliment.

Name searches are too good.