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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

Lenidem

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Bowser's castle is undoubtedly the most request stage to be represented but in hindsight, the stage could easily be mediocre and poorly executed (impossibly). Specifically modern.

View attachment 381043

This concept is pretty flavorless for example. It's just barren. There's a staggering absence of personality and charm. It's actually terrible. And incredibly regrettable.

While this is more appealing.

View attachment 381044

I'm one of the few who's of the opinion is that, the only way a Bowser stage can be good is it needs retro appeal. Simple, straight forward and old school. A retro Bowser stage is where it's at. But that's just my opinion.
Maybe a side-scrolling stage? I know those are pretty impopular, but I'd like that.
 

UserKev

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Maybe a side-scrolling stage? I know those are pretty impopular, but I'd like that.
I say no if you ask me. Sidescrollers are morally hit or miss that would otherwise ruin a good stage. Bowser's Castle need to start as safe as possible.
You know how Street Fighter V's arcade paths have a different number of battles depending on which path you take? I think some of SSBU'c Classic Mode routes could actually benefit from having a different number of battles depending on which route you take.
This is definitely what Smash needs. Specifically like SF3/Third Strike. I actually made the suggestion in my Manager Your Personal Smash thread, if I remember the thread title correctly. A 2 way route is the ideal for me. And is the most interesting.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I've often given this title to Banjo getting in over an Xbox character, and I stand by that as being a godawful decision that is unjustifiable in the context of the current state of Smash's guest fighters and how the series impacts legacy gaming discussion, but removing Squirtle and Ivysaur but keeping Charizard might actually be the worst single roster decision in Smash history. Pokemon in Smash has a real "cool" problem, and removing two of the most distinguished exceptions is just sad, even if it has been remedied since.
 
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FazDude

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The whole Charizard thing is kinda weird - I get that the PokeTrainer swapping mechanic wouldn't have worked as well on 3DS, hence why some sacrifices had to be made, but outside the context of Charizard being a really popular 'mon, it's just kinda weird to present this sort of shakeup to the team dynamic. It's like if Zelda and Sheik split up in Smash 4 but Sheik wasn't playable at all. Again, PokeTrainer's mechanic would probably have to be sidelined anyway, but having Charizard but not Squirtle/Ivysaur, while I don't think it's the worst roster choice the series has made, is really odd.

(Then again, if Squirtle and Ivysaur was in Smash 4 as their own thing rather than teaming up with Charizard, would that mean they'd go back to being a tagteam in Ultimate? Would probably fit the EIH idea when you consider Red, but they didn't make Zelda/Sheik back into a stance change, so this could swing either way.)
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Charizard being able to get in on his own isn't strange.

It's mother flipping Charizard. Other Pokemon would kill for his popularity. He isn't just a popular Pokemon, he's THE popular Pokemon.

And I say this as someone who loves and values Pokemon Trainer. Ivysaur and Squirtle are lucky they can piggyback off of Charizard.
 

Champion of Hyrule

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On the subject Smash's stance fighters:
I very much dislike Pyra and Mythra’s moveset, its just not interesting to me at all and feels awkward.

That said, I think the two are probably the best implementation of the stance fighter mechanic in general. The movesets of Zelda/Sheik, Samus/Zero Suit and Trainer’s pokemon can vary so much it just feels like you’ll most of the time end up picking one character you really want to play as and swapping them arbitrarily when you think you should. I could be wrong about if there’s some deeper connection between them but that’s how I always play them and I’m glad the stance fighter mechanic was removed for some of them. With Pyra and Mythra, it actually feels like there’s a gameplay incentive for you to switch between characters with Pyra being really slow and Mythra being fast which means I’ll be switching them up a lot while playing as them and they actually feel balanced around the stance mechanic.
 

Louie G.

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I really like Squirtle and Ivysaur and I would love to keep them around if possible.

I believe Sakurai must feel the same way, but with transformation characters abandoned in Smash 4 it's not all that weird to me that they were left behind. Pokemon has a lot of characters already, and Trainer is effectively three characters worth of dev time. To be fair to Squirtle and Ivysaur and allow them to stay is also to take development time away from another Pokemon, or another less fortunate series, and with Smash always making an effort to keep their Pokemon lineup contemporary. Something has to give.

So the compromise becomes keeping the most popular character around - a character who mind you probably would have made it into Smash one way or another. The same can't be said about his teammates unfortunately, particularly Ivysaur who is just kinda weird to contextualize as a separate fighter (in my defense, Ivysaur is my favorite of the bunch). Personally I would be happy if the rest of the team returned for the next Smash, although I'm not sure I would feel great about it coming at the expense of two other Pokemon if push came to shove... or Pokemon having so many characters in a condensed roster scenario.

Pokemon in Smash has a real "cool" problem, and removing two of the most distinguished exceptions is just sad, even if it has been remedied since.
I honestly don't disagree with this though, I enjoy Pokemon having more balance between "cool" and cute / quirky. Fortunately keeping Jigglypuff around is able to maintain this spirit (and we'll always have Pikachu obviously) but I do love the dynamic that Squirtle and Ivysaur provide for the cast.
 
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Louie G.

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Honestly? I’d rather Mewtwo get in the base game over Charizard since the latter can’t really thrive without the rest of Pokémon Trainer’s team.
Well, while we're in the unpopular opinions thread, I would personally take :ultincineroar: over Charizard too if we could only keep one Fire guy.

I don't think Charizard (as a Smash character) is that uniquely compelling and might be the least interesting of the Pokemon Trainer crew, but of course I like him in a vacuum and I believe he deserves to be here. Just yknow, as far as fire breathing dragons are concerned I prefer Bowser and Ridley. Giant fiery cat wrestler though? There can be only one!

:ultpikachu: :ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultlucario::ultgreninja::ultincineroar: <--- I wouldn't be mad at this lineup. But also, I don't see it happening.
 
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FazDude

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Charizard being able to get in on his own isn't strange.

It's mother flipping Charizard. Other Pokemon would kill for his popularity. He isn't just a popular Pokemon, he's THE popular Pokemon.

And I say this as someone who loves and values Pokemon Trainer. Ivysaur and Squirtle are lucky they can piggyback off of Charizard.
Charizard getting in solo isn't the strange part - It's cutting any member of the team at all. I get that dev time is a thing and they might have not been able to add Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur all as their own fighter, but it's still kinda odd to only have part of a team.
 

Louie G.

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Charizard getting in solo isn't the strange part - It's cutting any member of the team at all. I get that dev time is a thing and they might have not been able to add Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur all as their own fighter, but it's still kinda odd to only have part of a team.
I think the key is that Charizard would have gotten in anyway. Having his fate forever hinge on two characters who effectively ride his coattails wouldn't be fair. And that's not to disrespect the unique factor of Squirtle and Ivysaur, just being realistic about who's the star of the show here. I realize you're advocating for all of them to get in, but again we have to acknowledge the extra dev time and whether that's considered worth it for the whole gang.

Just like :ultzelda: bringing :ultsheik: along with her... in a condensed roster scenario, would it be strange to see Zelda return without Sheik? I don't think it would, because Zelda is independently popular / important and Sheik is really only here because of this initial package deal. I realize this is a change that they stuck with after Smash 4 vs Pokemon Trainer regrouping, but if they separated them once they could and probably would do it again.
 
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BritishGuy54

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I personally do not like Smash’s interpretation of Bowser. Ideally, we’d have both the comedic and threatening sides of the Koopa King. And I’d rather just have NSMB series Giant Bowser, or Fury Bowser as the Final Smash.

Final Smashes and Final Smash Meters should be separated, so characters can get both special cutscenes, and transformations, which would work very well for characters such as Wario or Pyra/Mythra.

More modern Nintendo characters tend to get shafted when it comes to people’s roster predictions for Smash 6. History is not just retro picks, it’s constantly evolving, and people will inevitably or already feel nostalgia for Switch titles.

Smash Ultimate DLC speculation was more about hype than interesting characters.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I personally do not like Smash’s interpretation of Bowser. Ideally, we’d have both the comedic and threatening sides of the Koopa King. And I’d rather just have NSMB series Giant Bowser, or Fury Bowser as the Final Smash.

Final Smashes and Final Smash Meters should be separated, so characters can get both special cutscenes, and transformations, which would work very well for characters such as Wario or Pyra/Mythra.

More modern Nintendo characters tend to get shafted when it comes to people’s roster predictions for Smash 6. History is not just retro picks, it’s constantly evolving, and people will inevitably or already feel nostalgia for Switch titles.

Smash Ultimate DLC speculation was more about hype than interesting characters.
Of all the languages out there. You chose to speak based.

I strongly concur.
 

Ze Diglett

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with Smash always making an effort to keep their Pokemon lineup contemporary.
Which is ironic considering Incineroar was already dated by the time he was revealed and is now half a decade out of date without the lasting popularity Greninja and Lucario enjoy. He's fun to play and all, but my GOD did his inclusion age like an open box of Cheerios.
 
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FazDude

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A card collector feature would be one of the better replacements from trophies. Imagine a variations of iconic figures as well as obscure. A in game Smash spin on the card trope with mini descriptions would be a fun novelty.
I can get behind this, actually. Trophies are really cool, but things like spirits and cards are less demanding on the game's size; All the former is missing is descriptions like the trophies had. Just add that and we're good.
 

Louie G.

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Forget if I ever expressed this here, or if I did it was quite a while ago:

Chun-Li is the single most significant character absent from the roster. Speaking relatively, other than Peach she is the most iconic female character in gaming worldwide. Her reputation precedes her where adding Chun-Li would be much more about the character herself than adding another Street Fighter "rep", a character who truly feels monumental to have crossing over with some of the other iconic faces on the roster. The fact that anyone has to justify this any further than that is ridiculous to me. Hell, she is effectively the co-lead of the series and appears with equal billing to Ryu in almost everything EXCEPT Smash.

Speaking of which, I don't think enough people talk about how underwhelming Street Fighter's current spread of content is. Most series get music that spreads throughout their entire series - Street Fighter gets exclusively music from SFII, and anyone who has played a single other Street Fighter game knows how much of a travesty this is. Suzaku Castle is fine, but then you look at KOF Stadium and realize that SF missed out on the "Ultimate" treatment. There are dozens of great SF characters who could appear as cameos in more of a bustling market sort of stage and make the world of that series feel more alive and further engrained into Smash. In general I think the standards have been raised and SF has been trailing behind a little bit... I mean hell, even within those standards Mega Man didn't just lock himself into Mega Man 2 music. It's cool we have the whole soundtrack or whatever but I'd sacrifice half of the SFII tracks for even a couple songs from SFIII. The picture Smash paints of Street Fighter is a pretty sterile, uninteresting one.

That in itself isn't an unpopular opinion, but it does bother me a bit when people will say oh Street Fighter is fine, but Sonic or Kirby needs this and that and this. I think all these series could serve to improve their representation, but at least those two have something supplemental to show for the last 25 years of their franchise.
 
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Perkilator

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Forget if I ever expressed this here, or if I did it was quite a while ago:

Chun-Li is the single most significant character absent from the roster. Speaking relatively, other than Peach she is the most iconic female character in gaming worldwide. Her reputation precedes her where adding Chun-Li would be much more about the character herself than adding another Street Fighter "rep", a character who truly feels monumental to have crossing over with some of the other iconic faces on the roster. The fact that anyone has to justify this any further than that is ridiculous to me. Hell, she is effectively the co-lead of the series and appears with equal billing to Ryu in almost everything EXCEPT Smash.

Speaking of which, I don't think enough people talk about how underwhelming Street Fighter's current spread of content is. Most series get music that spreads throughout their entire series - Street Fighter gets exclusively music from SFII, and anyone who has played a single other Street Fighter game knows how much of a travesty this is. Suzaku Castle is fine, but then you look at KOF Stadium and realize that SF missed out on the "Ultimate" treatment. There are dozens of great SF characters who could appear as cameos in more of a bustling market sort of stage and make the world of that series feel more alive and further engrained into Smash. In general I think the standards have been raised and SF has been trailing behind a little bit... I mean hell, even within those standards Mega Man didn't just lock himself into Mega Man 2 music. It's cool we have the whole soundtrack or whatever but I'd sacrifice half of the SFII tracks for even a couple songs from SFIII. The picture Smash paints of Street Fighter is a pretty sterile, uninteresting one.

That in itself isn't an unpopular opinion, but it does bother me a bit when people will say oh Street Fighter is fine, but Sonic or Kirby needs this and that and this. I think all these series could serve to improve their representation, but at least those two have something supplemental to show for the last 25 years of their franchise.
PREACH! Honestly, Chun-Li, Eggman and Sephiroth are the characters who deserve to be the second non-Echo characters of their respective franchises purely because of their significance not just to their franchises, but to gaming as a whole. If Sephiroth could come with DLC that adds more to his franchise's representation, than so could've Chun-Li and Eggman. As far as I'm concerned, they deserve better than to just be Spirits and nothing else.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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If we're to follow the "Nintendo all-stars" mentality, I honestly think the biggest omission in Smash is either Dr. Kawashima or Ted & Archie/Nintendog. I could maybe argue Mii Athlete, but I feel that's bordering into the stupid "My most wanted character is Ganondorf!" logic. Splatoon Idols are up there too

Now, from a "gaming all-stars" mentality... oh god, where to begin. I wouldn't be able to shorten that list down to 20, let alone 1. Even slimming it down to "celebration of Japanese gaming" isn't much help.
 

Lenidem

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Forget if I ever expressed this here, or if I did it was quite a while ago:

Chun-Li is the single most significant character absent from the roster. Speaking relatively, other than Peach she is the most iconic female character in gaming worldwide. Her reputation precedes her where adding Chun-Li would be much more about the character herself than adding another Street Fighter "rep", a character who truly feels monumental to have crossing over with some of the other iconic faces on the roster. The fact that anyone has to justify this any further than that is ridiculous to me. Hell, she is effectively the co-lead of the series and appears with equal billing to Ryu in almost everything EXCEPT Smash.

Speaking of which, I don't think enough people talk about how underwhelming Street Fighter's current spread of content is. Most series get music that spreads throughout their entire series - Street Fighter gets exclusively music from SFII, and anyone who has played a single other Street Fighter game knows how much of a travesty this is. Suzaku Castle is fine, but then you look at KOF Stadium and realize that SF missed out on the "Ultimate" treatment. There are dozens of great SF characters who could appear as cameos in more of a bustling market sort of stage and make the world of that series feel more alive and further engrained into Smash. In general I think the standards have been raised and SF has been trailing behind a little bit... I mean hell, even within those standards Mega Man didn't just lock himself into Mega Man 2 music. It's cool we have the whole soundtrack or whatever but I'd sacrifice half of the SFII tracks for even a couple songs from SFIII. The picture Smash paints of Street Fighter is a pretty sterile, uninteresting one.

That in itself isn't an unpopular opinion, but it does bother me a bit when people will say oh Street Fighter is fine, but Sonic or Kirby needs this and that and this. I think all these series could serve to improve their representation, but at least those two have something supplemental to show for the last 25 years of their franchise.
I think you're forgetting Lara Croft. She's probably even more recognizable as a female video-game icon than Chun-Li.
 
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BritishGuy54

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PREACH! Honestly, Chun-Li, Eggman and Sephiroth are the characters who deserve to be the second non-Echo characters of their respective franchises purely because of their significance not just to their franchises, but to gaming as a whole. If Sephiroth could come with DLC that adds more to his franchise's representation, than so could've Chun-Li and Eggman. As far as I'm concerned, they deserve better than to just be Spirits and nothing else.
I’d honestly agree with this. If a new Smash game slims down the roster (and third parties too), then Chun-Li and Eggman would be solid third party additions to compensate. I’d be fine seeing Chun-Li replace Ken, if a new game happened. And Eggman is Eggman. He’s the only major gaming villain not in Smash yet.
 

Louie G.

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I think you're forgetting Lara Croft. She's probably even more recognizable as a female video-game icon than Chun-Li.
I'm not forgetting Lara Croft, who is a very western-centric character compared to Chun-Li's massive appeal overseas and in Japan alike.

Chun-Li is the biggest worldwide icon remaining, with equal notoriety wherever you go. Several of the other big characters thrown around in conversations like this - Crash / Master Chief / Lara Croft for example, or even Sonic characters - are skewed greatly toward our western gaming experience just as someone like Monster Hunter or Arle may constitute this and feel similarly significant for a Japanese audience.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Honestly, I think Smash 64's Poke Balls were the best take on summon items in the series - I'm not 100% sure if it was an intentional design decision or just an N64 processing thing, but I like how they all (sans Clefairy) have only one attack, since that makes them a lot more fun to play around than ATs and certain Poke Balls basically just being 9th players. Admittedly though, if ATs had this design mentality, they'd need to make them throwable, a lot of Poke Balls just don't work if you throw them at nothing (Melee Porygon2)
 

MasterCheef

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It will be a miracle if we get , Master Chief , in , SSBU / SSB6.

However , Sora , is in , so most any largely popular character can
 

UserKev

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Honestly, I think Smash 64's Poke Balls were the best take on summon items in the series - I'm not 100% sure if it was an intentional design decision or just an N64 processing thing, but I like how they all (sans Clefairy) have only one attack, since that makes them a lot more fun to play around than ATs and certain Poke Balls basically just being 9th players. Admittedly though, if ATs had this design mentality, they'd need to make them throwable, a lot of Poke Balls just don't work if you throw them at nothing (Melee Porygon2)
I actually would love if Pokeballs were made cheesy broken again. I miss that fear when CPU's got a hold of the summon and you'd sort of go into a state of panic. Pokeballs used to be super reliable in 64 and Melee.
 

Oracle Link

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While it's something a lot of people complain about, I personally really appreciate how Smash's EarthBound rep greatly prioritizes the surrealism and parody-Americana over the dark spooky side - those elements are way more memorable to me. Smash also has a nasty habit of taming comedy-based franchises - which includes EB - so it's nice that the series' representation can at least show a bit of the sillier side of the games.

Not to mention that Mother 3 specifically's darker side would be impossible to represent more than it is without plunging into horrifically bad taste - hell, Lucas' Masked Man alt costume already feels a bit like a step too far.
Technically speaking:
Mother 2 doesnt just take place in america it also takes place in other countries in the second half!
I do think new pork city is sorta dark! Although i do think its a much better choice than the Empire porky building!
What do you think of Mother 1 Gyiyg and Mother 2 Porky as characters tho?
Also i think the music selection for Mother is pretty bad like porky doesnt even hgas his boss theme!
 

Champion of Hyrule

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Technically speaking:
Mother 2 doesnt just take place in america it also takes place in other countries in the second half!
I do think new pork city is sorta dark! Although i do think its a much better choice than the Empire porky building!
What do you think of Mother 1 Gyiyg and Mother 2 Porky as characters tho?
Also i think the music selection for Mother is pretty bad like porky doesnt even hgas his boss theme!
I mean technically there’s a difference between Americana and actually taking place in America- Americana is more of an aesthetic
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Non-gaming characters are a bad idea for Smash as it currently exists - but, I think that if Smash's third party character picks had stayed more within the realm of "Nintendo All-Stars" (so exclusively Simon/Bayonetta/Banjo/Mega Man-style picks with strong ties to Nintendo hardware), then the likes of Scrooge McDuck, James Bond, Aladdin/Genie, and the Ninja Turtles would be as sorely needed as a PS and proper Xbox rep are for the real Smash.
 
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Oracle Link

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So hear me out...
1703707396528.png

He is PERFECTION he is ALMIGHTY and he is pretty important!
Make HIM the first digimon in smash PLEASE

(Of course realistically its like 99% Agumon and 1% Patamon as the first smash digimon!)
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Sonic's moveset isn't boring; it just suffers from the unsynergistic, keepaway-heavy playstyle that modern Smash as a whole encourages.

If you could do the flashy stuff with Sonic's moveset that Fox and Falco could do in Melee, it would be popular in its own right.
Honestly, yeah, most of Sonic's non-special animations are really fun to look at and fit the character to a T. I was always a fan of the forward air mohawk spin and never saw as much appeal in the Sonic Battle axe kick. How the moveset actually strings together though? and the whole double spin-dash thing? and how his eyes/mouth are emoted? No thanks. Sonic moveset hate is way more warranted than Wario/Ganondorf moveset hate, and he is probably the pre-Namco character most needing of a rework (or even the only one), but at the same time he's still nowhere near the worst-designed Smash character, even from a purely aesthetic standpoint.
 
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Louie G.

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I won't say Sonic's moveset is particularly interesting to me, but it does grate on me a bit when people point fingers at Sonic frequently rolling into a ball as its greatest sin. I don't know how to break it to everyone, but that's kind of his most iconic ability. Especially since Sakurai opted to go for more of a classic angle, maybe that clashes a bit with the modern design but I know he's talked about the simplicity of Sonic controls on Genesis and seeking to channel that.

If we break it down, what are Sonic's most offensive or redundant ball moves? Clearly Side B and Down B do not need to do the same thing, so one of those can be abandoned. Personally I'd retool Side B, since pressing down to Spin Dash is more accurate anyway. I kinda like Up Smash, but it's not totally necessary.

Side note, I actually think his original dash attack where he simply rolls forward was more fitting since... well, idk, he does that in the games when you press down during your forward momentum. The new one is okay but of the ball moves you could change that one felt fine. And they changed his Down Smash, which funny enough was way more unique when it was a spin move. The new one is really similar to Fox and Falco's down smash - it should probably be a breakdancing move or something.

So that's two ball moves that I think could go (and one that I think should have stayed). What are the other ones?

Homing Attack - Well, yeah. He should definitely pose after he hits you, but otherwise this one is obvious.

Spin Dash - Again, obvious. This one doesn't need to change although I guess they have to decide if they want to keep it closer to the Side B or Down B.

Neutral Air - This could be stylized a bit further to look like the Insta-Shield from Sonic 3, but it's a perfectly fine and fitting attack.

Down Throw - Honestly? I just think this one is really cool.

After that, if you want to be difficult, you might bring up Sonic's get up attacks. Beyond that, we are looking at 6 ball moves - only one that is especially offensive and another that is questionable at worst. There are many valid complaints you could make about the way Sonic has been implemented but I can never really take this argument seriously - one of the most overblown complaints in the series and I feel crazy whenever I look at Sonic's moveset and think yeah it makes sense for Sonic the damn Hedgehog to be rolling around a lot.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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I don't like how 3DS and Wii U (and to a lesser extent Brawl beforehand) made Yoshi stand upright instead of giving him the horse-like posture of his SMW and NSMB iterations - I totally understand the decision, Yoshi is upright in both Mario multiplayer games (the most popular Nintendo games total) and all of his starring roles (the most important games for Yoshi), but I feel he's a little less unique when he's upright like everyone else.
 

UserKev

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I don't like how 3DS and Wii U (and to a lesser extent Brawl beforehand) made Yoshi stand upright instead of giving him the horse-like posture of his SMW and NSMB iterations - I totally understand the decision, Yoshi is upright in both Mario multiplayer games (the most popular Nintendo games total) and all of his starring roles (the most important games for Yoshi), but I feel he's a little less unique when he's upright like everyone else.
Yeah. Upright Yoshi is like someone wearing a Yoshi costume. I wouldn't use the word horse specifically, but Yoshi actually felt and looked like a dinosaur in 64.
 

Quillion

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I don't like how 3DS and Wii U (and to a lesser extent Brawl beforehand) made Yoshi stand upright instead of giving him the horse-like posture of his SMW and NSMB iterations - I totally understand the decision, Yoshi is upright in both Mario multiplayer games (the most popular Nintendo games total) and all of his starring roles (the most important games for Yoshi), but I feel he's a little less unique when he's upright like everyone else.
It's the same BS as why they make the more recent starter Pokémon into anthro-furries. Apparently the starring roles need to be humanoid to be more "relatable" to the audience... despite them being, y'know, animals.

Yoshi really doesn't need to be upright in Smash or the Mario series. It's just like Ganondorf's sword in how something canon made the character worse.
 
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