Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Schnee117]

See I think this metaphor illustrates what we mean because if that happened and was infamous it would be an important moment and worth remembering. Obviously no compilations done by the sports company would agnowledge it but if you’re talking about the most memorable moments in sports that would be worth talking about, not just highlighting the glory of a team. Sure, wanting even bad parts to get agnowledgment is a pretty idealistic view but at least it’s honest.

Yes but there's a huge difference between remembering and celebrating.
Smash does the latter, it is not the former

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

There is absolutely nothing worth celebrating about the CD-i. It was a terrible system with terrible games. You don't celebrate mediocrity, much less actual garbage. If you want history to be preserved then a triple A mascot platform fighter is the complete wrong place to look to for that. Some of y'all would insist a sports team celebrate fumbling a five point lead in a final just because it's an infamous moment.

I mean, the CD-i was a failure, but nobody was particularly harmed by it to my knowledge, it's not like the Jaguar (which Atari earnestly celebrates as much as the 2600 - see Atari 50) which put Atari out of business and ruined its reputation as hard as the US crash, or the Gizmondo which ruined lives through its ties to the mafia, at worst it just made Nintendo and Phillips look a tiny bit cheap and lost people some easily-refunded money. One or two ruined Christmases, but good games can do that too depending on someone's taste. It's a funny story at least, and at most represents a different yet distant era of Nintendo that shaped how people perceive it today despite being having nothing in common with modern Nintendo, just as Banjo/Rare does. This is less "fumbling a five point lead" and more "Creating a really dumb looking Olympic mascot", and the Olympics sure as hell still celebrate Izzy. The AVGN schtick was a joke, you shouldn't let it impact how you actually view bad games.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying "Morshu should be in Smash", I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to prop up the likes of Banjo, Conker and Geno - also long-irrelevant characters wrapped in legal shenanigans with no true historical impact but a large following with Nintendo fans - as valid picks while immediately dismissing Morshu, who has the exact same scenario. I do want bad game rep in Smash (Sqij is a dream pick of mine, and I'd love Bubsy after an A2600 rep), but I'd rather not have 3Ps (assuming Morshu is one) chosen based on Nintendo connections

 

[Lenidem]

Did you just compare Morshu to slavery?

I compared video games to a country.

In addition, I feel like your metaphor illustrates the disconnect between the sides of this argument. I hardly think that actual crimes that have been committed are even comparable to a low quality piece of media. One causes immense suffering, the other makes someone who was looking for recreation be disappointed at worst. Plus, with media, what is seen as "bad" can give valuable insight or good ideas, even if sometimes that is just "what not to do"

You guys have a problem with the concept of comparison. It's not an equivalence. Slavery and war crimes are bad: (almost) everybody agrees on that. The CDI games are bad: (almost) everybody agrees on that too. That's it. Are the second ones as bad as the first? Of course not.

Have you ever heard of Disney's America? - if Action 52 is indeed the gaming equivalent of Agent Orange, then having a celebration of gaming history is fundamentally flawed as a concept even under ideal circumstances, just like a celebration of American history

I have not, so I don't know what you're talking about, sorry.

 

[Schnee117]

I compared video games to a country.

You guys have a problem with the concept of comparison. It's not an equivalence. Slavery and war crimes are bad: (almost) everybody agrees on that. The CDI games are bad: (almost) everybody agrees on that too. That's it. Are the second ones as bad as the first? Of course not.
I have not, so I don't know what you're talking about, sorry.

Nah that's just a weirdly extreme comparison.
There are infinitely better avenues to go down than immediately leaping all the way over to actual human atrocities.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Did you just compare Morshu to slavery?

At least they didn't compare being a Smash fan to an abusive relationship.

Yes, somebody did that once...

 

[Batkelley]

As much as I like Morshu, I feel like either Tingle or Beedle would be better choices for that character archetype, considering they both have greater relevance in the Zelda series as a whole, and they're both fully owned by Nintendo, so there wouldn't be any of the complicated legal issues that Morshu could potentially come with.

Plus, in Tingle's case, he already has a lot of moveset potential from the games he's already been playable in.

 

[Lenidem]

Nah that's just a weirdly extreme comparison.
There are infinitely better avenues to go down than immediately leaping all the way over to actual human atrocities.

My bad, I tend to forget that people scare jump at the sight of some words and that it makes them unable to pay attention to the actual reasoning. I won't do the same mistake again.

Edit. I feel the need to explain why the concept of slavery was in my mind when I wrote that message. I'm a Belgian, and my country has a bad history with Congo: we feel extremely guilty with what the previous generations did over there. And it so happens that I finished re-reading today an album of Tintin, "Coke en Stock", who talks about that. Had I read anything else, I would have probably picked a less sensitive comparison. As for the war crimes, well, if you read the news, I don't think it needs any explanation.

 

[Perkilator]

Air dashing should be a thing in Smash, but not for every character; Sora, for example, is a character who could benefit from air dashing, while King K. Rool is not.

 

[MasterCheef]

Air dashing should be a thing in Smash, but not for every character; Sora, for example, is a character who could benefit from air dashing, while King K. Rool is not.

LOL , Sora already has this move as a side Special in SSBU.

Other characters have straightforward less useful variants , Fox , Falco , Wolf , Luigi , Pichu & Pikachu , Villager , Banjo & Kazooie

Now How you came to the conclusion KKR could not use an air dash is beyond me.

Do you expect air dashes to replace air jumps or be in addition to them ?

More importantly how would this be implemented ?

 

[Opossum]

LOL , Sora already has this move as a side Special in SSBU.

Other characters have straightforward less useful variants , Fox , Falco , Wolf , Luigi , Pichu & Pikachu , Villager , Banjo & Kazooie

Now How you came to the conclusion KKR could not use an air dash is beyond me.

Do you expect air dashes to replace air jumps or be in addition to them ?

More importantly how would this be implemented ?

I mean...it's pretty clear that they weren't talking about a mobile side special, but an actual air dash. Though personally I'm of the opinion that it should be a universal mechanic instead of something only a few characters get (and funny enough I think K. Rool actually makes a lot of sense with one...the animation could even be taken from his DKC2 boss fight where he uses the blunderbuss to propel himself). The main variance, in my opinion, should come from how far the dash goes, which would change per character.

Air Dashes aren't a new thing in fighting games. They're not even new in platform fighters...Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 1 has them in place of traditional air dodges, and the sequel has traditional air dodges that can be upgraded into the first game's air dashes by spending Slime Meter.

The easiest way to implement them, in my opinion, would be to map them to the currently-redundant second jump button + a directional input.

 

[MasterCheef]

I mean...it's pretty clear that they weren't talking about a mobile side special, but an actual air dash. Though personally I'm of the opinion that it should be a universal mechanic instead of something only a few characters get (and funny enough I think K. Rool actually makes a lot of sense with one...the animation could even be taken from his DKC2 boss fight where he uses the blunderbuss to propel himself). The main variance, in my opinion, should come from how far the dash goes, which would change per character.

Air Dashes aren't a new thing in fighting games. They're not even new in platform fighters...Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 1 has them in place of traditional air dodges, and the sequel has traditional air dodges that can be upgraded into the first game's air dashes by spending Slime Meter.

The easiest way to implement them, in my opinion, would be to map them to the currently-redundant second jump button + a directional input.

The moves are actual air dashes , They just happen to be tied to special moves & have hitboxes.

I was not suggesting they were new at all i just think the original post should have clarified some more details.
I think something like NASB2 air dash could be very interesting, especially if every character had an air jump too.

However the deal is in order to make something like this effective the Specials would entirely have to be reworked to be a lot more useful.

 

[Opossum]

The moves are actual air dashes , They just happen to be tied to special moves & have hitboxes.

I was not suggesting they were new at all i just think the original post should have clarified some more details.
I think something like NASB2 air dash could be very interesting, especially if every character had an air jump too.

However the deal is in order to make something like this effective the Specials would entirely have to be reworked to be a lot more useful.

I genuinely don't think it would make advancing hit specials redundant. Often times they're used as a burst damage option, while also having a much more rigid trajectory as a tradeoff. An air dash, by contrast, would have no hitbox, but would offer much more variance in mobility.

And for some characters, combining them would help them significantly. Ike, for example, could air dash to an angle where recovering with Quick Draw would be much easier, helping with one of his greatest flaws, that being his very linear recovery. By combining an advancing special and an air dash, it opens up a variety of movement options for the cast.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

One overlooked benefit of airdashing for platform fighters: they increase the potential for fun casual stage designs. A few NASB1 stages would be borderline unplayable without airdashing, but actually work really well if you play it while understanding the mechanic on a base level (Space Madness and Glove World aren't actually that bad, guys. Western Air Temple and Wild Waterfall on the other hand?). I think a lot of the infamous Smash stages would be redeemed with the addition of air dashing to allow super-quick navigation and hazard dodging.

 

[MasterCheef]

I genuinely don't think it would make advancing hit specials redundant. Often times they're used as a burst damage option, while also having a much more rigid trajectory as a tradeoff. An air dash, by contrast, would have no hitbox, but would offer much more variance in mobility.

And for some characters, combining them would help them significantly. Ike, for example, could air dash to an angle where recovering with Quick Draw would be much easier, helping with one of his greatest flaws, that being his very linear recovery. By combining an advancing special and an air dash, it opens up a variety of movement options for the cast.

Sorry what I really meant was Specials in SSBU are mostly very boring & only serve as a general rule , to help get the character closer to use an aerial or smash attack

 

[Opossum]

Sorry what I really meant was Specials in SSBU are mostly very boring & only serve as a general rule , to help get the character closer to use an aerial or smash attack

I do agree somewhat that quite a few of these specials could use more oomph. To go back to Ike as an example, I'm definitely of the opinion that not only should Quick Draw not put Ike into helpless like it currently does, but it should be cancellable at any point during the movement and naturally combo into things like an aerial, side tilt, or Aether. Such a change would not only help Ike out a lot, but also make Quick Draw a much more interesting move with a wider degree of applications.

 

[MasterCheef]

I do agree somewhat that quite a few of these specials could use more oomph. To go back to Ike as an example, I'm definitely of the opinion that not only should Quick Draw not put Ike into helpless like it currently does, but it should be cancellable at any point during the movement and naturally combo into things like an aerial, side tilt, or Aether. Such a change would not only help Ike out a lot, but also make Quick Draw a much more interesting move with a wider degree of applications.

I was referencing along the same line where most characters who have POOR recoveries tend to have disappointing specials

which is why i would be suuper excited tor a Tag Team SSB where every character slot gets two characters & can freely swap between like Pythra

 

[Ze Diglett]

I do agree somewhat that quite a few of these specials could use more oomph. To go back to Ike as an example, I'm definitely of the opinion that not only should Quick Draw not put Ike into helpless like it currently does, but it should be cancellable at any point during the movement and naturally combo into things like an aerial, side tilt, or Aether. Such a change would not only help Ike out a lot, but also make Quick Draw a much more interesting move with a wider degree of applications.

Oh, God... can you imagine an Ike player jump cancelling Quick Draw and smacking you with Fair from across the stage in the blink of an eye?

 

[Opossum]

Oh, God... can you imagine an Ike player jump cancelling Quick Draw and smacking you with Fair from across the stage in the blink of an eye?

Yes...yes I can and I love it lmao.

 

[Laniv]

Not sure just how unpopular this one is, but Olimar has some of the worst animations of any Smash character.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Not sure just how unpopular this one is, but Olimar has some of the worst animations of any Smash character.

Nah, his taunts are hilarious. Them being off-character just adds to how funny they are.

 

[Opossum]

Nah, his taunts are hilarious. Them being off-character just adds to how funny they are.

They're not even out of character though. Olimar is 100% the type to do Awkward Dad Dances.

 

[fogbadge]

They're not even out of character though. Olimar is 100% the type to do Awkward Dad Dances.

i seem them in a new light

 

[UserKev]

Not sure just how unpopular this one is, but Olimar has some of the worst animations of any Smash character.

You know this opinion holds some merit when Olimar is easily one of the most unnoticeable additions. I totally agree. Olimar is terribly wonky and tedious to fight. I'm actually convinced now that Pikmin never needed representation on the roster.

 

[fogbadge]

You know this opinion holds some merit when Olimar is easily one of the most unnoticeable additions. I totally agree. Olimar is terribly wonky and tedious to fight. I'm actually convinced now that Pikmin never needed representation on the roster.

i don't think that's quite the same as what laniv was saying

 

[Laniv]

I should clarify, it's not Olimar's taunts that are the issue. It's his actual attack animations.

With other characters, there's a windup so you can tell what they're doing: they wind up, or rear back with their weapon, or crouch down low to prepare to jump. With Olimar, he points with a tiny arm and a tiny hitbox jumps up to attack. That he's one of the smallest characters on the game with stubby proportions doesn't help. Compared to characters like K. Rool, Wario, DK, or Cloud, it's too hard to tell what he's doing.

...But on the topic of his taunts, my other unpopular opinion is that the Pikmin should taunt with him.

 

[fogbadge]

...But on the topic of his taunts, my other unpopular opinion is that the Pikmin should taunt with him.

that is a good idea

 

[Perkilator]

Revali should be the sole Champion represented in Smash, with the other three appearing in a Final Smash based on the cutscene where they blast Ganon with the Divine Beasts.

 

[Lenidem]

Revali should be the sole Champion represented in Smash, with the other three appearing in a Final Smash based on the cutscene where they blast Ganon with the Divine Beasts.

Why Revali?

 

[fogbadge]

Why Revali?

i think he's a falco fan

 

[jamesster445]

Regardless of who gets brought back I hope we get more fairer content distribution. One way I think we can achieve this is by treating every fighter like a "Challenger Pack" where in addition to a fighter, they get a stage associated with them, and music (maybe a minimum of 10) associated with the character or series, hopeully with less repetitive songs, like how there are what, 10 different iterations of the main Mario theme.

For example

Spoiler

Donkey Kong is coming with Kongo Jungle and about 10 songs that consist of main themes of the series, retro themes, etc.
Diddy Kong could come with Kongo Falls and about 10 songs a majority would be from DKC2 which is his game.
K Rool could come with a new stage since he never really had one (Maybe a Minecart stage or a Pirate Ship), and themes associated with himself like Gangplank Galleon and other boss themes.
and a newcomer in the form of Dixie who comes with a new stage (I like Grassland Grooves from Tropical Freeze), and 10 songs associated with DKC3 (both OSTs) aka her game.

My only issue with this is that I wouldn't want to this method to interfere with getting oddball stages like Mario Maker or Balloon Fight.

 

[Quillion]

Smash's next game desperately needs more characters where the team has no choice but to make up moves for them instead of trying to recreate animations and/or mechanics from the source game. I'm honestly tired of seeing established moves being brought into Smash as it's just become a predictable trend and has no surprise factor at best or becomes a cluttered, mechanically overdone mess at worst.

 

[UserKev]

Far from an unpopular opinion but I want to express this well enough. I don't want anymore third party guests comes next smash. After some thought, this would be amazing and stress free. I really believe this is what Smash needs again.

 

[Perkilator]

If Crash got into Smash; while I’d prefer for him to have a unique moveset, I also wouldn’t be upset if he was a semi-clone of Mario and Luigi.

 

[fogbadge]

If Crash got into Smash; while I’d prefer for him to have a unique moveset, I also wouldn’t be upset if he was a semi-clone of Mario and Luigi.

may I ask which moves you envision them sharing?

 

[Perkilator]

may I ask which moves you envision them sharing?

Mainly, the special moves.

• Neutral B: Wumpa Ball (similar to Mario's Fireball but with an ink effect via Wumpa Fruit juice)
• Side B: TNT Crate (similar to Luigi's Green Missile)
• Up B: Crate Jump Punch (The aerial version works similar to Mario's Super Jump Punch, with Crash being launched by a metal Bounce Crate and Wumpa Fruit appear after every hit. The grounded version works like Luigi's Super Jump Punch, with a Nitro Crate sweetspot at the cost of recoil.)
• Down B: Death Tornado Spin (similar to the Mario Tornado except it can reflect projectiles when you press the button once and mashing B has Crash float horizontally instead of vertically)
• Final Smash: Aku Aku Finale (similar to Mario Finale, with Crash donning a golden Aku Aku mask and summoning an orange and blue flame from his palms)

 

[fogbadge]

Mainly, the special moves.

• Neutral B: Wumpa Ball (similar to Mario's Fireball but with an ink effect via Wumpa Fruit juice)
• Side B: TNT Crate (similar to Luigi's Green Missile)
• Up B: Crate Jump Punch (The aerial version works similar to Mario's Super Jump Punch, with Crash being launched by a metal Bounce Crate and Wumpa Fruit appear after every hit. The grounded version works like Luigi's Super Jump Punch, with a Nitro Crate sweetspot at the cost of recoil.)
• Down B: Death Tornado Spin (similar to the Mario Tornado except it can reflect projectiles when you press the button once and mashing B has Crash float horizontally instead of vertically)
• Final Smash: Aku Aku Finale (similar to Mario Finale, with Crash donning a golden Aku Aku mask and summoning an orange and blue flame from his palms)

ok then

 

[UserKev]

It seems Nabbit is secretly making his way into next Smash and I actually want him in. No one seems to talk about him but his recent climb in the ranks of relevancy is impressive.

As far as his moveset potential, Smash is rather absent of a thieving Bandit attacker he could surely represent.

Yes. I'm talking about Nabbit from Mario.

 

[fogbadge]

It seems Nabbit is secretly making his way into next Smash and I actually want him in. No one seems to talk about him but his recent climb in the ranks of relevancy is impressive.

As far as his moveset potential, Smash is rather absent of a thieving Bandit attacker he could surely represent.

Yes. I'm talking about Nabbit from Mario.

what other nabbits are there

 

[UserKev]

what other nabbits are there

Please stop spamming. No hard feelings.

 

[Laniv]

It seems Nabbit is secretly making his way into next Smash and I actually want him in. No one seems to talk about him but his recent climb in the ranks of relevancy is impressive.

As far as his moveset potential, Smash is rather absent of a thieving Bandit attacker he could surely represent.

Yes. I'm talking about Nabbit from Mario.

Honestly, I hope he gets in solely so they have a reason to reuse "Steals the Show!" as a tagline