Guys, don't get so caught up in him referring to the matches versus m2k, or sheik being able to abuse ledge grabbing. It probably isn't evident in those videos anyway, since M2K is **** anyway. He did do it a lot. Anyone that was at the tournament can attest to the fact that he did it unnecessarily, when he probably could have won all of his matches (besides Eggm stric or chops) by being aggressive and outplaying the other player on stage.
That isn't the point that he is trying to make though. What he means is that in general, the invincibility frames gained by ledge stalling give players who practice the timing, much more reward than players who choose to spend their time learning baits, shield pressure, faints, and aggressiveness on stage. Whether or not a character ***** the character (aka Fox vs sheik) who resorts to ledge stalling has no bearing. The principle of the matter is that a person who wants to make sure that they can win the match simply need to perfect taking advantage of their invincibility gained by grabbing the ledge.
A win in a fighting game is almost always given to the smarter player during the match, who has the least failure in executing what they want to do. Basically, Eggm wants to prevent a situation where two players may be near equal to each other in skill, but one simply chooses to seal the deal by ledge stalling. Yes, there are ways and frames where you can do something about it, but nobody is that frame perfect. They will have to take half the game to find that opening, execute their punish perfectly, and even then it's not even a guaranteed kill. It's a risk-reward system that is roughly 90% risk for the approaching player and 10% reward.
What Eggm is suggesting is not that we have ledge grab rules just because sheik or whatever is broken in that aspect. He feels as if we should HAVE to learn how to space, bait, pressure and get kills based on our knowledge of how to fight other characters on stage, not just retreating to a safe spot. That's what makes smash, smash imo. Truly beating your opponent based on your spacing and punishment on stage. Invincible ledge stalling can be potentially done well with other characters as well. A frame perfect firefox stall to waveland + nair or shine can be successfully executed while still retaining invincibility frames. Is this practical? No. Can a person practice it to the extent that they can fall back after gaining a lead in tournament, and stall the match without being punished? Yes.
Personally, I don't see the need for ledge grab rules currently because, as said before, nobody practices these techniques religiously to the point of it becoming a major problem. But, don't you think that if trained well enough, the fact that a person COULD do that without any risk from the approaching player, is broken? When something like this does happen, though better the approaching player may be, he/she won't know how to approach because nobody stalls that much to give them experience in that situation.
It's not about character matchups, but a general mechanic that may or may not need to be addressed before it potentially becomes a problem. When some one realizes their weakness as a player in a match, they should have to improvise. Character changes are also ways to hide those weaknesses. Ledge stalling shouldn't be, but could become one.
All's fair in war I suppose. Just my two cents.
