Tournament rules for edge camping (Serious discussion)

[Jolteon]

So what are these proposed answers? I'll list the first few that come to mind.

Waiting til they come off the edge: If they are ahead and planking correctly, why would they ever do that?

Committing to a Forward or Down Smash in hopes of hitting in the tiny vulnerability window: Super risky, and super dumb. Likely to get you killed.

Going over and spacing Ftilts/Pivot AC Bairs: Safe but uneffective for actual getting damage if you are way behind, not to mention putting you in the range of getting gimped.

Stealing the edge: A faster character, presumably Fox, could shine turnaround wavedash onto the edge, but their being within that range would fairly risky first off. Secondly, it could work out well if the Sheik is not paying attention and SD's because Fox took the edge; however I would think that an observant Sheik would just react to the edge being taken and land else where out of range to be punished or on a platform. Then what? You get a hit and maybe a KO depending on percents/DI etc. But you could just as easily not catch the edge if Sheik beats you there and then you are in easy gimp position. There are enough risky factors in trying to take the edge from a character with an unbelievably good gimp game vs Spacies that it barely seems worth the risk. Sadly, this seems to be the best option?

I'm very open to more ideas so please feel free to drop some knowledge on me.

Option 1 works just fine if they're mixing up their poofstalls with ledgedashes/ledge hop aerials (which any decent Sheik will do vs anyone who actually takes the edge). Obviously it won't work at all if you don't challenge them.

Option 2 sucks like you said, if you can see a vulnerability (e.g. the Sheik does the initial up+b without ledge frames) then it's a lot better to dair/shine spike.

Option 3 is mostly pointless, you're somewhat "safe" but effectively get nothing done, this is the main problem I see with most spacies who struggle with ledge camping, they don't really do anything to get them off of the edge.

Option 4 is actually very reliable, I don't see any issues with it? Sheik can't "beat you there", she's stuck in the middle of her up+b animation while you force her on the stage. Sheik's up+b end lag sucks, unless they ledge cancel it (I haven't seen anyone do this consistently with Sheik so far), you will be able to get a good punish from it and push them into a bad situation. Characters like ICs/Falcon just get a free grab from it and they can do so much to Sheik from a grab.

Sheik can deal with planking better because of her ability to throw needles diagonally, yes.

vs puff? Sure, but they're useless against various other stalls (due to invincibility).

 

[Dark Hart]

seriously eggm??? you're such a *****, it's so easy to beat ledgestalling you're just a terrible player. and i mean GOD-AWFUL, you are THE MOST UNINTERESTING FOX TO WATCH. i will never think you're good. EVER. OH MY ****ING god get better you scrub! your fox is so generic i cannot stand it! have you ever even watched yourself play? how could you possibly even consider to keep playing your terrible, awful horrible excuse for a fox! and *****ing about ledgestalling??? HOLY **** camp him you terrible excuse for a smash player! WHY ARE YOU SO BAD?!?!!? HOW COULD ANYONE LOSE TO YOU?! i'm glad that m2k was "camping/ledgestalling hurr hurr whine" you deserve it so much!!!! by all means keep whining you ***** or you could find a way around it instead of ****ing saying "hey guys this MIGHT change the game let's ban it because it's gay." OH MY GOD I CANNOT STAND THE SIGHT OF YOU.

twitch let's team again sometime

we can be double sheik and shino-stall on opposite sides of the stage.

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

if you wanna see ledge abuse;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m9138477W8

 

[phanna]

Euhhhhhhhhhh

No.

Why do you even have that first video linked?

 

[Rob_Gambino]

what is the problem w/this outside of you "not liking it"? fwiw, i'm not a huge fan of this playstyle by anymeans and would call it gay or w/e, but i also think it's out there to suggest that it needs to be banned pre-emptively.

Did you even watch it or read everything I said? lol

 

[Acryte]

if you can steal the ledge from shiek then shiek is at a major disadvantage though, especially to characters that can quickly take advantage of that and chain it into combos, gimps, or edgeguarding opportunities.

I just saw M2K doing what M2K does. I've seen people steal edges against shieks doing the stall before and then shiek was in a very bad position because he has to up-B and land with massive lag

now planking puff, not as sure about, question, planking chars like puff have set timings to be effective with invulnerability frames so you know their timing options. Can falco effectively shine dair on a plankin puff (Though I know bein near the edge is like death to falco vs puff).

Also planking puff is way worse than shiek but if I recall correctly peepee says he can't see how planking puff is unbeatable. I'd like to see one play peepee because if its simply a matter of playing smarter until the jiggs realizes its not effective because hes getting killed then he will eventually stop using it and then just play regularly

 

[Dark Hart]

I can't say I really have a problem with camping

since all I do with Fox is platform camp

 

[tarheeljks]

Did you even watch it or read everything I said? lol

yes?

edit: i'm actually not even sure why your name is in there. i thought everything i quoted was said by metal reeper

 

[Stratford]

twitch let's team again sometime

we can be double sheik and shino-stall on opposite sides of the stage.

That would be quite a sight.

 

[Retroking2000]

only a handful of players play like that , only until you see everyone doing it then it would be a problem xD
there is and will always be a away around camping

but brawl did really being about that type of tatic lol

shouts outs to brawl for teaching people how to camp xD

 

[VA]

lol this thread sucks.

go watch filipino champ play sim, it's ugly as heck but it beats daigo. being kept out is gay as hell, and ledge camping in my mind is pretty similar.

aren't there ways of pressuring people who are stalling on the ledge in melee? I certainly feel like there is but I guess I'm a noob and don't know.

 

[omgwtfToph]

it's not that big a deal lol. it's not even unbeatable. you can just grab the ledge against sheik. puff's ledgestalling doesn't even work either

and yes, i've played m2k's legendary "planking puff"

it's not that good

*shrug*


edit: that said, it's irrelevant. every melee player loves melee so much that they would never abuse this. the one exception is m2k, who is the best brawl player. he's a brawl player at heart, and he freely admits he doesn't find smash fun anymore. the bottom line is, if it's a tactic that proves itself to be broken outside of theory-world, then people will ban it. until that point, it's pointless to talk about. you might as well "soft ban" it - then again, you can consider it pretty much already soft-banned since nobody does it

oh wait, i remember seeing a match where taj did it with mewtwo to light's peach a whole bunch. but taj is like 7 feet tall and black

 

[PeachKiller279]

is eggm really johning about that? GROW A PAIR KID. All m2k was doing was resetting his invincibility long enough to reliably approach eggm who had stage control. m2k stayed on the ledge less and less as their sets went on as he felt more comfortable with the timing to weave in between Eggm's lasers with his invincibility, and wavelanding on platforms. This is a standard Sheik strategy and isn't "camping" or "planking" or anything in between, and Eggm even did the correct answer to this in WF by ninjaing m2k's edge in one game.

There is no argument against this tactic. If someone wants to be a ***** and plank for real, then raise a point then.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Eggm stopped posting, and he aint even mad

 

[PeachKiller279]

I only read the op.

 

[mastermoo420]

Guys, just go Fox, fire a laser, and grab the other ledge

 

[Xianglian]

Why hasn't this tread been locked yet?

 

[Lightsyde]

Looool at all the people who talked to me about this thread at Pound. Doin' work.

It ain't even my personal view, get at my argumentation. AYEEEEE

 

[_lemons]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Ac233MNVM#t=3m14s

lovage 2 good

 

[Stratford]

I thought of this thread when I watched that too lol.

 

[Jonas]

LOL Lovage showing how it's done. Good example of edgecamping getting too predictable.

 

[beencake]

honestly when m2k camps ledge hes at just as much of a disadvantage as you are if not more, and never will sf4 compete with smash lol imo

--.........................--

 

[PEEF!]

This is MELEE baby we play the god-damn game and don't complain except about wobbling so stfuuuu

 

[Pi]

eggm master troll
most active 100% troll thread ever?

 

[Jonas]

honestly when m2k camps ledge hes at just as much of a disadvantage as you are if not more, and never will sf4 compete with smash lol imo

--.........................--

Well Street Fighter doesn't have a ledge that you can jump on and down on and annoy people with.

Imagine if someone on SRK made a thread complaining about how being in the corner grants an unfair advantage lolololol

(not that being on the ledge does in Smash though but yeah..)