• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Tier list for Marth's moves

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
I recognize that Brawl is boring as **** and not alot of people want to be even more patient then they already are. But there are ways to access the d-tilt quickly and efficiently.

Crouching does take some more frames, but it takes Marth longer to jump then it does for him to crouch so this is negligible. I just think it's a frame of mind for most Marths.
Standing D-tilt.

No crouch.

Final Destination.
(tilt the control stick downwards just slightly and you can d-tilt without crouching. not sure if it's "quick" to perform out of a run or something, but definitely usable from standing or walking.)

any time you can fsmash, you can also dtilt.
You can F-smash forward (edit: or backwards) out of the first few frames of a Foxtrot (aka stutterstep and reverse stutterstep).
You can only D-tilt backwards in the first few frames of a Foxtrot, and that's due to phanna's "true pivot" tech.

just saying lol.

Clearly the thread was for ****s and giggles and because I like making tier lists.
lol and apparently so does the rest of smashboards.

I can see it now:
- "You tier *****! D:"
- "What? I'm using Falcon!"
- "You only use top tier moves!"
- "........."
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
2,154
Location
San Francisco
I take this personally. Long rant
Clearly. I don't think I need to go into it again but you missed the entirety of what I was saying. This is not a SPAM thread. If it's not a spam thread, this has the right to be posted. Saying, you don't need to post this is most nearly the equivalent of spam post. You're not responding to the topic in a helpful way. You're not giving reasons why this topic shouldn't be allowed to be posted. If you were saying something like, this should be somewhere else, there's already a thread for this, or anything along those lines. But your reason is just that "he shouldn't post it because I think it's stupid." I'm not even talking about smash anymore. That's just stupid from a forum perspective. I call it spam.
.I'm not arguing this **** about who is more knowledgeable. I've seen EL demonstrate his knowledge. I haven't seen you. Period. That's it. That is my opinion based on what I've read. There's nothing more to that.

Anyways, tenki wins the debate. =b
 

Vegard

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Messages
1,220
Location
Oslo, Norway
lol I'm not that much into Brawl... but I really thought he was like in Melee. Guess I was wrong after all. Man that sucks
 

Cloud Cleaver

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
349
Location
Central Virginia
Ignoring the drama going on above, would someone care to explain why his dair is so low on the list? I just started using him yesterday, so I'm trying to figure out how much to spike. O.o
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
It's incredibly laggy, doesn't have many uses (spike's harder to land now), easily punished, and there are typically better options to use.
 

ZHMT

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,851
Location
Tampa, Florida
NNID
zeeehmtee
Ignoring the drama going on above, would someone care to explain why his dair is so low on the list? I just started using him yesterday, so I'm trying to figure out how much to spike. O.o
Do you know how many times I preformed a dair on a good opponent?...zero.

Why? Because I don't attempt it.

Why? Because Im better off just doing a falling fair and grabbing the ledge.

Dair is horrible because so many moves beat it in everyway for edgeguarding. I rather do a falling nair then a dair lulz.

Forget the move, don't even try it on a Snake recovering with his cypher...just forget the move ^_^
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
18,066
Location
Houston,Tx
No one cares about Tudor's steamy love life and that's not even impressive. Why do you even take people that say Xyro is clearly the best seriously?
.
because i am the best. not one samus has a better record than i do. fact
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
3,398
Location
Fairfax, VA
NNID
Remziz4
3DS FC
0302-1081-8167
ROFL, after seeing Jab in two of your low tiers, I'm just going to sit this one out.

As for Dair? Eh, learn to use it for more than meteor smashing.
For more than spikes? It's best used sparingly on stage. You're pretty much screwed if you miss. I'll use it if I have a clear opening, though. It's still definitely not a good move.

And I agree, jab is somewhat underrated. Mid tier IMO.
 

ZHMT

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,851
Location
Tampa, Florida
NNID
zeeehmtee
The only time I use it is when Im knocked up from snakes utilt or something. The dair has better influence then simply DI, to help you survive.
 

Darxmarth23

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
2,976
Location
Dead. *****es.
i use it just to mess with people.

they know it aint good on stage so i just throw it out of the blue.

sparingly though.

very sparingly.

(lulz, my past 50 posts have all been spam!)
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Top Tier

Dancing Blade
DTilt
Fair

High Tier

Dolphin Slash
UThrow
Jab
Pivot Grab
Uair
Bair

Mid Tier

FTilt
DThrow
Shield Breaker
UTilt
Nair
USmash
FThrow

Low Tier

Counter
DSmash
FSmash

Bottom Tier

Dair
Dash attack
BThrow



Constructed with the same criteria El laid out. Notes:

Top Tier: My reasoning for placing Fair below Dancing Blade and DTilt is strictly due to it's limitations as a move in comparison to the other two. It is a very good move statistically, but it is merely that. It's application isn't as broad as the other two. Dancing Blade with transcended priority, good speed to range ratio, exceptional damage dealing and the best punishment game in Brawl, is undoubtably the best of the three. It also serves to aid recovery, can go through a plethora of moves, wears on Shields, and unlike DTilt, it can be performed out of a Dash. It's simply amazing. DTilt isn't quite as good, as Dancing Blade, but it beats fair in application. Great IASA Frames, good range and speed (this beats Meta Knights 1st FTilt hit box by the way), can DTilt lock, and can combo in to other very good moves such as short hop tactics, Dolphin Slash or even Dancing Blade. I'm dead set on the order of these three.

High Tier: Dolphin Slash is almost good enough to make it into Top, but not quite. It's major cool down time and lag hampers this move extremely (but for very good reasons). This move also has lag upon returning to the stage, even if you have clung to the ledge once using it before getting on stage. That being said, it's uses are undeniable. UThrow will likely surprise some of you, but it is by far his best throw. Very few characters in this game can beat Marths vertical game when he is below them, and even less characters actually have safe answers around this. UThrow sets up for all of them, and is the only throw (excluding DThrow and FThrow at 0 - 7% on the majority of the cast) that has a near guarantee follow up if you pay attention. It is also the only throw that keeps you safe after execution. Unlike the other throws, it also KOs. Jab is very fast, has IASA Frames, and stops almost all short hop games, which makes it a very useful utility move. Yes, I added Pivot Grab to the list, I don't care if you guys think it doesn't count. Marths Pivot Grab is like Snake's UTilt in grab form, and all of you need to start using it if you haven't. It leads in to UThrow set ups, and is a very good spacing tool. It's also likely his safest method to grab, barring your opponent isn't dumb and attacks your shield without spacing. Uair and Bair are very close, one will be used more than the other depending on your style of play. I personally use Uair more, since it's nearly unstoppable when the opponent is above you, and is your best option from a UThrow. Bair is a very good move as well, with longer range than Fair and good KO potential. Bair has bad landing lag however, so that brings it down a bit.

Mid Tier: As El stated again, FTilt suffers from being unsafe. That being said, it is very similar to Jab (you simply trade speed and IASA Frames for range and power), and stops a lot of svehort hop approaches. The few ones that Jab can't stop, FTilt certainly will. DThrow is the second best throw, merely because it gives you the most distance and deals the most amount of damage. It also substitutes for BThrow. Shield Breaker is one of the few moves that is very unsafe on block for the opponent(exluding PS) due to it's ability to wear down Shields. It has extremely long range, and is deceptively fast for said range. It also serves for recovery purposes, although can leave you vulnerable whilst doing so. UTilt serves as a good KO move (better than USmash I believe), is very useful against rolling opponents, but suffers from cool down. Nair is overused for many Marth players, as it can be SDI'd out of and has much less range that Fair. Fair also covers a larger area and has faster start up. It's KO power is substantial if you can land it, which is rare. This move is most useful in specific match ups where Fair is less desirable. USmash is good for sneaking in under opponents, particularly on platforms above. It's also the answer for a vertical KO where you can't walk the distance to use UTilt and Uair just won't cut it. It can be rather unsafe if whiffed however. FThrow over all is percent dependant. At very low percents, it serves as a good damage dealer and can chain into FSmash or Dair. At much higher percents, it's a good way to reset spacing. It becomes limited in the mid range however, because the opponent isn't sent far enough away to be safe and they can retaliate immediately.

Low Tier: Counter is very match up specific, and very situation based, but it can safe your *** when no other alternative is available. It is also the achilles heal to characters like Ike with his recover. DSmash and FSmash are sort of in the same boat, I only put DSmash above FSmash for the simple reason that it is faster on start up and it telegraphs less.

Bottom Tier: Dair does have uses, just seldom ones. Did you know that at higher percents where Fair won't kill Meta Knight from a Release Grab (either due to lack of damage requirement or being to far from the side), Dair is a better option? It will pop him up and you're automatically in an advantageous position, plus it does more damage. It can also kill most characters from a FThrow if they're careless and are grabbed at low percent. Spiking characters off stage also becomes rather easy with practice, especially foot stooling. However, it is very unsafe anywhere but off stage most of the time, and even there, you need to land the Dair, otherwise Marth dies. Dash Attack has decent power when tippered, and good speed. It has too much start up and cool down however, and it's only real advantage is either ledge guarding (which isn't half bad) or surprise tactics. It can also be used out of a few Grab Releases, such as with Pikachu.

Garbage Tier: Back Throw. Nuff' said.

:)
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Eh, I don't like Jab that much cuz even though it's fast and safe, you can't do much off of it. I would rather have f-tilt's range and power or just use d-tilt or DB.

F-throw vs U-throw is tough for me.

F-throw creates and auto 50/50 guessing game and it's super braindead for Marth to take advantage of. U-throw is just great for putting them in a ad spot and unlike the f-throw Marth has time to actually think about how he will keep his opponent in a bad situation or react to them. With f-throw you need to be able to react instantly and already have the plan in your head.

D-smash is just easy to throw out when you want a kill and it's fast.

Pivot grab? Get out.

Nair...I personally don't like this move, but I can't deny it's utility in matches vs characters that have great air games and may try to challenge Marth in the air. It's the closest thing he has to a linger hitbox and it's his best answer to certain characters in the air like vs Wolf's bair. It's also a solid option in juggle traps.

Fair has more utility then D-tilt. Fair can be used close to the ground, off the stage and in the air. You can only use d-tilt on the ground. So right off the bat Fair will see far more use and will have more uses.
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
My reasoning for placing Fair below Dancing Blade and DTilt is strictly due to it's limitations as a move in comparison to the other two. It is a very good move statistically, but it is merely that. It's application isn't as broad as the other two.
Limitations? I disagree, I think fair can be used much more than dtilt. There are more situations fair can be used in than dtilt, so I feel as if that's Marth's true bread and butter move.

I know dtilt is a great move and has it's uses and I agree with everything said about it thus far but I don't think it warrants top tier. It simply doesn't have as many situations it can be used in as dancing blade or fair, IMO. And DB is an infinitely better punishing move.

Top tier is Marth's bread and butter. It's the core of his gameplay. The high tier moves are great moves that have strong properties. Mid tier are solid moves that have some weaknesses. Low tier are moves that should be used sparingly and when you do, they should be done with caution and alot of thought. Bottom tier should be avoided at all costs.
Based on your description of your tier list, I would put dtilt in high tier. It's amazing but it's not used nearly as much in gameplay as fair or DB. I think dtilt serves the high tier description perfectly and should be on top of high tier. The only thing stopping it from being top tier is it not having more uses or situations for it.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Eh, I don't like Jab that much cuz even though it's fast and safe, you can't do much off of it. I would rather have f-tilt's range and power or just use d-tilt or DB.
Jab's main use applies where DTilt is null and void due to circumstances (such as an oppontent short hopping). FTilt is unsafe in comparison unless the character in question has longer range than Jab, which isn't too often but in occurs. Dancing Blade is a very good substitude most of the time, but it doesn't have as large of a hit box. Still a better move.

F-throw vs U-throw is tough for me.

F-throw creates and auto 50/50 guessing game and it's super braindead for Marth to take advantage of. U-throw is just great for putting them in a ad spot and unlike the f-throw Marth has time to actually think about how he will keep his opponent in a bad situation or react to them. With f-throw you need to be able to react instantly and already have the plan in your head.
I don't like FThrow unless I can combo out of it because my opponent is thrown too close to me, and they're able to retaliate immediately. Even if I know what to do, half the time they have at least a few answers for my options. I'd rather throw them up where I know I have complete control. At higher percents, it's not bad, since they're placed upwards as well as in front of you, which is bad place to attempt to defend against a Marth.

Pivot grab? Get out.
no u

Pivot Grab rocks. Seriously. Very good range, can be done out of a Dash or Dash Dance, hard to punish. Sets up throws.

Nair...I personally don't like this move, but I can't deny it's utility in matches vs characters that have great air games and may try to challenge Marth in the air. It's the closest thing he has to a linger hitbox and it's his best answer to certain characters in the air like vs Wolf's bair. It's also a solid option in juggle traps.
I don't like it much either. I rarely use it now in comparison to when I used it in Melee. It's hit box is too small. The lingering effect is nice though.

Fair has more utility then D-tilt. Fair can be used close to the ground, off the stage and in the air. You can only use d-tilt on the ground. So right off the bat Fair will see far more use and will have more uses.
Fair is an aerial, and you always have less options in the air. Once aerial, you lose your ability to block, run, use any tilts, Smashes, or grabs, or roll. You keep all of those with DTilt, let alone the fact that the IASA Frames allow you to execute them after the fact almost immediately. Fair also can't reliably lead in to anything, while DTilt can combo. DTilt also locks people in stages with walls, and is better at edge guarding. Despite Marth being able to use Fair off stage, Marth is at a huge disadvantage off stage anyway, even while edge guarding, and is better off staying on stage with DTilt in the first place.

Fair has more areas of play that it can be used in, (Fair can be used in the air, near ground and off stage, while DTilt is strictly ground) but the specific uses for those areas are limited as such. DTilt ***** in every department it can be used in.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Limitations? I disagree, I think fair can be used much more than dtilt. There are more situations fair can be used in than dtilt, so I feel as if that's Marth's true bread and butter move.
No there isn't. Like I explained to El, Fair has a wider array of areas of play in which it can be used, because it is an aerial attack (Standard, Tilts, Smashes, and Throws are ground based only. Aerials are ground, off stage and air based. Specials can be used anywhere). However, it's applications in those areas are severely limited in comparison to DTilt. It's still an amazing move, and DTilt rarely beats it.

I know dtilt is a great move and has it's uses and I agree with everything said about it thus far but I don't think it warrants top tier. It simply doesn't have as many situations it can be used in as dancing blade or fair, IMO. And DB is an infinitely better punishing move.
Dancing Blade is ********. :p

Based on your description of your tier list, I would put dtilt in high tier. It's amazing but it's not used nearly as much in gameplay as fair or DB. I think dtilt serves the high tier description perfectly and should be on top of high tier. The only thing stopping it from being top tier is it not having more uses or situations for it.
DTilt has almost as much use in gameplay as Dancing Blade. The main reason Dancing Blade wins is because it deals so much damage, and it's a special. It also has transcended priority.
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
Fair also can't reliably lead in to anything.
I call partial bull****

Define reliable. At least 80% of the time, an untipped fair can follow-up into something else, even if it's another fair. And if reliable is 100% of the time, dtilt isn't completely reliable.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
DB has more range then jab.

D-tilt WOULD be high tier, but...the frame trap guys.

That **** is beast.

Marth touches your shield with this move and that's it pretty much.

You are gonna eat damage.

I like D-tilt more then any other move in this game. Reminds me of 2A in Soul Caliber lol.

And yeah you certainly have less options in the air. But the Fair itself can be used in more situations just because it's an aerial. It's the premier spacing/control move thanks to Marth's speed and aerial movement.

I will say that the d-tilts IASA frames make it ideal for making walls and using it as a lead-in to pretty much....anything Marth has.

F-throw puts his opponent too far for them to hit him back. So all Marth has to do is choose a safe poke that doesn't put him at risk if you really just want to play it safe.
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
No there isn't. Like I explained to El, Fair has a wider array of areas of play in which it can be used, because it is an aerial attack (Standard, Tilts, Smashes, and Throws are ground based only. Aerials are ground, off stage and air based. Specials can be used anywhere). However, it's applications in those areas are severely limited in comparison to DTilt. It's still an amazing move, and DTilt rarely beats it.
Of course every move has limitations but in comparing the limitations between fair and dtilt, dtilt has either the same or a bit more. Yes, fair can only be used in the air but it's not difficult to short hop fair straight into DB on the ground. Fair serves much better as a safety wall then dtilt.

Dtilt is better for shield pressure though. Both are safe on shield and a short hopped tippered fair can lead into DB down for more shield pressure and most of the time, shield stab. But dtilt just works better as you're jabbing at their ankles making it easier to shield poke and it can lead into other things, like DB, faster.

Each has limitations and are extremely useful, so I reiterate: I think fair should be higher simply because it's used in more situations. Also, there's no safety wall like fair, although dtilt is close :)
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
DB has more range then jab.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202411

It used the method of phantom hit boxes you mentioned. Trust me, Jab is longer. :p

D-tilt WOULD be high tier, but...the frame trap guys.

That **** is beast.

Marth touches your shield with this move and that's it pretty much.

You are gonna eat damage.
This.

And yeah you certainly have less options in the air. But the Fair itself can be used in more situations just because it's an aerial. It's the premier spacing/control move thanks to Marth's speed and aerial movement.
Marth has more flexibility while using Fair because of how mobile he is while using it, however he can still be punished upon Shield. DTilt however can almost never be punished, and do to the IASA frames, has so many more options out of it.

F-throw puts his opponent too far for them to hit him back. So all Marth has to do is choose a safe poke that doesn't put him at risk if you really just want to play it safe.
Meh. Half the time I find when I go in for a safe poke in such a position I get whacked with an aerial. I just prefer the comfort zone that having my opponent above me provides.


Of course every move has limitations but in comparing the limitations between fair and dtilt, dtilt has either the same or a bit more. Yes, fair can only be used in the air but it's not difficult to short hop fair straight into DB on the ground. Fair serves much better as a safety wall then dtilt.
No it doesn't. DTilt is safer than Fair. Fair is only reasonably safe because of how mobile Marth is in the air. If Fair connects with the shield with a tip, he has longer stun on the shield than normal and loses advantage. If he doesn't tip, the Marth is in danger because he is obviously too close. And because you're in the air, you can't react to any of the options your opponent will use. DTilt has longer range, has less cool down time, and it can react in the bloody **** everything. Jab, Dolphin Slash, Dancing Blade, short hop everything, spot dodge, roll. There is no way Fair is safer. It gets ***** by OoS options half the time if you're not careful with it.

I know it's not difficult to fall a Fair in to Dancing Blade, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about application, and advantage: DTilt wins in both aspects. Fair can just be used in more areas of play.

Dtilt is better for shield pressure though. Both are safe on shield and a short hopped tippered fair can lead into DB down for more shield pressure and most of the time, shield stab. But dtilt just works better as you're jabbing at their ankles making it easier to shield poke and it can lead into other things, like DB, faster.
Believe me, Fair is very unsafe on contact with a shield.

Each has limitations and are extremely useful, so I reiterate: I think fair should be higher simply because it's used in more situations. Also, there's no safety wall like fair, although dtilt is close :)
Fair does cover more of an area around his hurt box, but in terms of advantage, DTilt is much safer.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
You quoted that same line multiple times.

Tipper fair is very safe on shield.
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
Believe me, Fair is very unsafe on contact with a shield..
Tipped fair is safe on shield.
As is a tippered dtilt.

Also, what I meant by fair being a good safety wall was that a series of short hopped double fairs create a good wall that makes it difficult for some opponents to get through if they don't have a projectile. So I was talking more about being defensive I guess.

Dtilt is useful as a safety wall too though. I would say it's not hard to short hop over dtilt but the IASA frames ***** anything that tries.

Meh.
 

Odigo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Chicago
Everything we talk about is hypothetical, so that assumes perfect spacing. Both dtilt and fair are safe on shield.

I do agree on dtilts usefulness though.

Meh, I'll change my point of view and say dtilt belongs in top tier. I'm not sure if it should be higher than fair though.

EDIT: Wait, so which has more range then? Through experience, I always found jab to have more range than DB. O.O
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
Who punishes it Ulevo. There is always something you can do to avoid it. And what fair is being punished. SH or SHFF.

Also there is a difference between being punished and being hit after you throw something out. POunished is when you are hit during recovery frames and there is nothing you can do. Getting hit after you threw something out means they just attacked with something and happened to guess that you would run/roll/block and you took damage.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Who punishes it Ulevo. There is always something you can do to avoid it. And what fair is being punished. SH or SHFF.

Also there is a difference between being punished and being hit after you throw something out. POunished is when you are hit during recovery frames and there is nothing you can do. Getting hit after you threw something out means they just attacked with something and happened to guess that you would run/roll/block and you took damage.
Both get punished. Short hop Fair will get punished because you are suspended too long in the air. Shuffle Fair gets you punished due to the landing lag, despite how minimal it is. This can occur with OoS tactics on any character that has enough reach. Niko got me a lot with this just by using OoS Dash Attack or aerials, and I usually tip the Shield.

The safest I find when connecting with a shield is SHDF. At least then you have a second hit box to cover retaliation.

Does anyone have the frame rates for shield stun with tip and non tip Fair? Or the full frames of Fair?
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
NNID
ShinEmblemLord
3DS FC
3926-6895-0574
Switch FC
SW-0793-4091-6136
That's impossible.

With a single fair you can DI back then do another aerial to cover yourself.

SHFF tipper fair is -8. They don't have enough time do anything really especially when you take shield push back into account. If you buffer a roll after that you can avoid retaliation.

Marth has options. Thing is you do NOT have time to think about these options. You need to know what you will do ahead of time.

True punishment is like I described. You are stick in recovery frames and you can't do anything. This is not the case with tipper fairs. Non-tipper Fairs may be another story.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
That's impossible.

With a single fair you can DI back then do another aerial to cover yourself.

SHFF tipper fair is -8. They don't have enough time do anything really especially when you take shield push back into account. If you buffer a roll after that you can avoid retaliation.

Marth has options. Thing is you do NOT have time to think about these options. You need to know what you will do ahead of time.

True punishment is like I described. You are stick in recovery frames and you can't do anything. This is not the case with tipper fairs. Non-tipper Fairs may be another story.
You're likely right, and I had assumed to be right about what you just said as well. It didn't work out in practice for one reason or another. I'll have to test it tonight or something to confirm myself.
 

Cloud Cleaver

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
349
Location
Central Virginia
I know these are mostly done for fun, but you might be surprised to know how helpful they are to new guys. O.o Just knowing how often to use each attack in an effective playstyle is a great boon.

I've never seen a lot of use for his jab, personally...everything it can do, the first DB hit seems to be able to do better. *awaits counterargument*
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
I know these are mostly done for fun, but you might be surprised to know how helpful they are to new guys. O.o Just knowing how often to use each attack in an effective playstyle is a great boon.

I've never seen a lot of use for his jab, personally...everything it can do, the first DB hit seems to be able to do better. *awaits counterargument*
Jab has a larger hitbox. It also has less cool down time, and it can't be SDI'd out of. Also, situations where transcended priority doesn't work will often merit using Jab, such as against Glide Attack from Meta Knight.
 

lilmuskrat66

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
4
I wish someone would put counter on a higher tier list. It's extrememly useful when you know a move is coming, especially someone charging a smash attack while i'm floating downwards. I don't really get to play against high level competition, because indiana sucks, but i just wanted to throw that out there.
 

cutter

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,316
Location
Getting drilled by AWPers
I never really have understood the reason behind why extremely old threads need to be necroed.

I remember when these things were all the rage though. This idea spread like wildfire to all the character boards :p
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
3,398
Location
Fairfax, VA
NNID
Remziz4
3DS FC
0302-1081-8167
well we copied the falco boards i think haha

or somethin like that
 
Top Bottom