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[Dragmire]

yeah nade stripping stops metas fast attacks cold and works really well against his 2 killers Dsmash and Fsmash

 

[Hot_ArmS]

if you miss the SH dair you're open for attacks though

what gets me all the time against mk's is their dthrow -> fair -> shuttle loop

grrrr

 

[-Ran]

Be careful during your recovery vs Meta Knight. He can Up B into your Cypher, get hit by it, and refresh his Up B allowing him to constantly smack you off stage until you die, or until you stop using it. I typically give them the first hit of the Up B hit for 'free' so I can lure them in, while I take the next hit, which will kill them. DI down and to the stage, and just use your Up B, after Meta Knight falls off the screen dead. =D

Tech Throwing Meta Knight can be a bit annoying at times from what I remember when I fight him. He seems to roll out faster than I can chase. Don't forget that his standing up 'attack' is about as lagless as anything else he has. I typically avoid tech chasing against Meta Knight.... Just isn't worth the risk. It gets me too close to Tornado range.

Tornado wise, I hate the move with a passion. It's the reason I was knocked out of the two tournaments that I've participated in.

Things not to do:
1. Shielding it. Your shield will be poked through after the second tornado, but you can angle the shield up during the first one to avoid taking damage.
2. Dodging it. It isn't going to happen. You'll get caught in it relatively quickly.
3. Jumping it. The aerial control that Snake has over his momentum is crap. Don't take to the air.
4. Nikita-ing it. Doesn't work.
5. Up Tiliting it. The timing needs to be PERFECT for this to work. The difference in the hitboxes of the two moves is sooooooo slim, that unless you get it right, you're going to be eating the tornado. And, if you're playing on a laggy Tv.... Ouch.
6. Tilting it. None of them work. Sorry. This is one thing, that F-tilt won't solve.
7. Shield Grabbing it. If you're lucky....maybe, but I've had very little success with this.

Things to do
1. Grenades. Always having one in between you and MK will prevent him from approaching.
2. Land Mines. Same thing as grenades. Thing is, the time it takes you to place one, you're going to get hit by a dash grab, or something similar.
3. Stage Location. If you chill out in the center of the stage, you're going to get EATEN ALIVE. Camp out at the edges of a stage, and you'll find they'll do Tornado far, far less. Especially on a moving stage!

Main thing is vs Meta Knight is, keep the U-Tilt as FRESH as possible. I've come to this realization after losing out in two tournaments due to it. Meta Knight will get killed on most stages at 100~110 by a Fresh U-Tilt. Save it for the kill shot.

 

[Anth0ny]

What would be the smarter stage to ban against a MK, Rainbow Ride or Weegee's Mansion? They're both pretty horrible for Snake in this matchup...

 

[Cecilanius]

What would be the smarter stage to ban against a MK, Rainbow Ride or Weegee's Mansion? They're both pretty horrible for Snake in this matchup...

I would say Rainbow Cruise. In weegee's mansion, you can just shield drop grenades and run the whole time. But, it will be demoralizing to have to see yourself running for most of the match. The only real way to win is to camp. Camping sucks.

Rainbow Cruise will be shorter, but, MK will have the advantage.

 

[-Ran]

Snake is horrible from the bottom, so I'd say Rainbow Cruise, but the good thing is on a stage like that, you don't need to worry about B-Spam. Also, the Ship sets up a nice little tech chase, since Meta Knight can only roll away from it, or attack standing up.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

abit_rusty beat the best MK in Michigan on RB......2 stocked

i still say ban RB over mansion though lol cause like u said u can just run

=/

 

[-Ran]

I find that most Metas that I've played don't counter pick anything aside from neutral stages, for fear of epic failing with their B moves off of the stage.

 

[Ken Neth]

What is the best way to edge guard a MK?

Also, when I get knocked off stage at low percentages, usually from a throw, I have a hard time getting back on without getting 30~%. What is the best way to avoid this?

 

[StoleUrCar]

ban luigi's mansion or RB. Period. Idk how the heck rusty beat "the best" mk in michigan let alone 2 stocked him, and on rainbow cruise? no way...

also as for edgeguarding MK you could try cyphering high and dropping a c4 and midair detonating. Just like against DK.

 

[Esoteric]

Very good and comprehensive info on these match-ups. I've been having some trouble with Olimar lately so this helps; for some reason I just can't seem to read his grab range. It always seems like I'm out of range, but I still get grabbed. :[

Good stuff, thanks.

 

[Jos]

What is the best way to edge guard a MK?

Try standing near the edge and baiting them into a SideB , then shield grenade it. Charged mortar spam is OK against him also. Edge guarding an MK isn't easy, and it's not how you will get most of your KOs against him.

 

[Sinz]

Whoa. Don't Edgeguard an MK unless he is out of jumps. Let him get back to the stage and then just kill him.


Just don't get gimped.

 

[Percon]

^ Yeah, not too many characters can edgeguard meta. Just anticipate his return to the stage with mortars/c4/ grenade drops. This is gonna make him want to stay on the edge as little as possible so he can return to the main platform where he shouldn't be a problem.

Also, it's somewhat sad, but Halberd is one of MK's worst stages in this matchup. Low ceiling bodes ill for him.

 

[Anth0ny]

Also, it's somewhat sad, but Halberd is one of MK's worst stages in this matchup. Low ceiling bodes ill for him.

The platform is also a good, small area to plant mines/C4. And low ceilings+uptilt ftw

 

[-Ran]

What is the best way to edge guard a MK?

Really, it's better to not attempt to edge guard him. Set up stage control when he's recovering. Only edge guard him when he won't be expecting it. Everything that could kill him with an edge guard 'meet off the stage' with Snake is beaten by Meta's Fair/ up B, which they'll be using anyways.

So instead, focus on stage control, and get into a suitable area to camp. =p

 

[Ken Neth]

Yeah, I generally stay away from trying to edge guard him cause whatever I try never seems to work. I was just wondering if there was some way to edge guard that I wasn't aware of.

 

[StoleUrCar]

So is this it for chat on MK? We just use nade countering to deal with everything and KO him off the side rather than edgeguard...

How about some regular MK players (both as him and against him) give a rundown of things that are lesser known in the matchup and what to expect?

I know that MK's can delay the B-button presses on the mach tornado so that they stay stationary and can pressure through your shield. I just thought that was pretty interesting.

 

[-Ran]

Low Fair approach-> Down Smash seems pretty standard on many Meta Knights I've played. If you roll back, they'll chase with a dash-grab. Spot dodge or shield grab.

 

[Anth0ny]

^^^Agreed. That dash grab is very commonly used by my opponents.

You always gotta watch out for the whorenado though, keep those nades ready.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

update on the pikmin stuff

Hot_ArmS: do u pay attention to which pikmin urcurrently holding all the time
ItsAndyBabe: **** no
Hot_ArmS: lol
ItsAndyBabe: every once in a whil
ItsAndyBabe: e
ItsAndyBabe: I'll realize
ItsAndyBabe: oh hey there's a purple next
Anther joined the room.
ItsAndyBabe: lemme go for a usmash early kill
Lock joined the room.
ConnorTheKid joined the room.
ItsAndyBabe: or like if I see I have 3 purples in my line
ItsAndyBabe: or 2 right in a row
Hot_ArmS: thats broken
ItsAndyBabe: I'll make sure to throw one off the ledg
ItsAndyBabe: e
Hot_ArmS: why
Hot_ArmS: ur wasting it
ItsAndyBabe: because they give you no range


purple pikmin doesnt have range, they cant grab you!!!!

courtsey of AndyG, #2 on gamebattles

 

[Anth0ny]

Weegee's Mansion just got banned in my area. Now it's a no brainer, ban Rainbow Cruise :D

 

[-Ran]

Any other thoughts on this match up? By far, this is one of the main ones we'll fight in a tournament. I think we should continue to explore this match up, and watch any videos from FAST once they are available to truly get a grasp of what is happening. ;v

 

[Anth0ny]

Any other thoughts on this match up? By far, this is one of the main ones we'll fight in a tournament. I think we should continue to explore this match up, and watch any videos from FAST once they are available to truly get a grasp of what is happening. ;v

Agreed. This match up probably needs the most looking into of them all.

Waiting on those FAST videos.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

loool i got 3 stocked by an MK

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_Q_WTqhHi8

I swear i dont play like that anymore!

no johnzz

edit: btw any of you guys wanna play a couple matches? i really suck in snake dittos so i need some practice. But it doesnt always have to be snake dittos, anyway hit me up with a pm, or get at me on aim. AIM is kidniteman

 

[dingding]

nice guide rj

 

[dingding]

need more chars =) like wolf or sumthing

 

[johnnylaw505]

MK is overall too fast for Snake IMO. and if the MK player is proficient at grabbing, short hop air dodging into a fair or dairs snake has trouble making of the damage descrepency. I have not played alot of snakes but have not come across any that are too much trouble for me. ( Im a MK player quack)

 

[Cecilanius]

need more chars =) like wolf or sumthing

I'm going to be writing this thing up as soon as I come back from a trip. I'll be back Sunday. I'm thinking Lucario next. He's been giving Snake users trouble.

So, folks. Let's keep that discussion going. I'll be back Sunday to read it.

 

[AlAxe]

Against MK its all about patience and spacing. Wait for MK to make the first move then appropriately dodge, shield, or roll and counter attack. Shield grabbing will probably be very important to winning against MK. Against a good MK if you're over aggressive your attacks will be avoided and you will be easily punished. Against MK you have the advantage of having better range and you should try to take full advantage of that. Protect against his approaches with ftilt and utilt and don't let him get too close. If MK gets you in the air the most important thing is to get to the ground as fast as possible because that is when you are most vulnerable. MK is a tough matchup but I think that a good snake can win this matchup very consistently.

 

[-Ran]

Anything else to add to this match up? Come on guys, this is going to be a main one.

 

[Ken Neth]

What is a good stage to counter pick against meta?

I usually counter pick corneria, but when i played a meta on that stage at a tourney on saturday i got owned. Meta can just up-b and ride the fin up to an instant grab on the edge of it then come down and d air and repeat. Plus the close edges make it easy for meta to gimp snake when recovering. So, yeah, i definitely won't be counterpicking that stage next time haha.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

i just pick final

good long stage to space well against meta

 

[-Ran]

i made this combo up months ago but never told anyone, i do it all the time to many chars at 0% or really low %

glide attack, short hop nair (so it hits twice, also make sure to do the nair ASAP and fast fall ASAP), then F Tilt

it's a legit combo if you do it right, it usually does about 41-45%

keep in mind that they can shield grab this, however glide attack has so much hitstun if you actually hit them that you can space the glide attack so they can't shield grab you, but also have enough time that if you do hit them, you can run up to them and short hop fast fall nair (if you short hop nair right away, and fast fall right away, you're doing this the best possible). I usually do my F tilts slowly because there's plenty of time for it all to combo and I can see if I hit them or missed/if they blocked while I'm doing my first hit of F tilt.







here's another trick i use

stand in the middle of a stage (on most stages), and dash grab Snake so that you're near the edge, then keep grab attacking Snake until he falls out of your hands. When he does, dash off the stage and Nair to intercept Snake's double jump. Snake is forced to up B, so double jump Nair him 2-3 more times (it does a lot of damage if it hits twice, and it's strong enough to always hit Snake off his up B even while deteriorated), and finish off with either a full powered Dair (as long as the dair isn't deteriorated it hits snake off his up B) or an up B (Snake's cypher will hit MK so MK doesn't suicide), then use MKs forward B back onto the ledge.





another thing I like to do is double jump Dair camp a lot, then tornado the top of people's heads as I'm running out of jumps (assuming they don't angle their shield upward to avoid this)

Just another thing to be aware of.

 

[Azgner]

does anybody has more to add?everything has been helpful,but i cant stop feeling its not enought, and can we do IC next? their 0-death chaingrabs scare me

 

[-Ran]

Does anyone else have -anything- else to add? Something tells me we'll revisit this match up soon enough.

 

[jlen]

Shielding grenades seems very effective against overaggressive MKs...

 

[gallax]

i find that when in the air and MK is trying to punish you, if the MK has a higher percentage than you i pull out a nade and let him hit me. this way he gets sent above you since you ahve a better defense and a loew percent. iwhen this happens i try to get an uair on him which usually means death. just a trick i learned.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Hm... I've never noticed this thread before. I can't say I agree with the matchups listed there. The strategies are close to what I think is true, but the difficulty of the matchups isn't what I'd personally have them as. For one, Pikachu vs Snake is nearly an unwinnable matchup. You'd probably have to learn an entirely new playstyle in order to go even, at the very best, against a good Pikachu. Nowadays I just use different characters in that matchup. Makes my life much easier.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

well anther said something like "thats not an anti pika strat, thats an anti anther's pika strat"

but then again, pika players proly would base their style off of anther lol

but samurai we'd all love to hear your input on the matchups, either future ones or ones that have already had a write up on