This is dead, look for the new matchup thread. Be sure to read the rules.

[napZzz]

yeah but I'm sure noone would have actually posted the full thing in here! And his dtilt is very pesky and the only way I can think of getting past it is spot dodging.

 

[Cecilanius]

yeah but I'm sure noone would have actually posted the full thing in here! And his dtilt is very pesky and the only way I can think of getting past it is spot dodging.

I think he can do dtilt faster than Snake can do spot dodging.

 

[napZzz]

His dtilt isnt THAT fast. If you can shield it you can spot dodge it :D

 

[StoleUrCar]

Do you guys think it's a good tactic to fast fall a dair in order to break through the uair "puff" juggling? I do it every once in a while, but of course the problem lies in the lag when you land.

 

[chckn]

Do you guys see GW as a harder matchup than ROB?




and to some of your questions:

yeah but I'm sure noone would have actually posted the full thing in here! And his dtilt is very pesky and the only way I can think of getting past it is spot dodging.

May work at first, but the problem is if they see youre doing this often, they can dtilt spam which will come out faster than your ftilt or jab out of a spotdodge. If you can manage to powershield it then you can ftilt before he will be able to dtilt again.

Do you guys think it's a good tactic to fast fall a dair in order to break through the uair "puff" juggling? I do it every once in a while, but of course the problem lies in the lag when you land.

No, if you ff your dair he will prob shield the whole thing leading to you eating a fsmash or dsmash. Best thing to do is just wait it out or try to di. airdodging will usually lead to you getting punished as well if youre playing a good GW.

 

[Cecilanius]

Do you guys see GW as a harder matchup than ROB?

Nah. G&W is an easier opponent. ROB has more moves that can disrupt Snake's tactics.

 

[StoleUrCar]

No, if you ff your dair he will prob shield the whole thing leading to you eating a fsmash or dsmash. Best thing to do is just wait it out or try to di. airdodging will usually lead to you getting punished as well if youre playing a good GW.

Actually what I meant was fast falling combined with DI'ing out of his path of "puff". Not with the intention to hit him, but with the intention to land. Still, very punishable but it's a last resort. I also tried lobbing nades but unfortunately his uair blows them back up -.-

I guess you're right, general solution is DI out. Possibly C4 drop. Too bad GaW can just follow your fall since he nearly chooses when you land ._. ..then out comes his smash...

and...to your question...ROB is def tougher.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

R.O.B. is the harder match-up by far for me. Unlike G&W's below average projectile, R.O.B. has 2 great projectiles that can disrupt Snake big time. Plus the fact that he owns Snake's recovery doesn't help much either.

 

[napZzz]

what snake players dont realize is that SNAKE is game and watches hardest match up.

 

[StoleUrCar]

what snake players dont realize is that SNAKE is game and watches hardest match up.

Really? I had this weird notion that Lucario was, or at least makes it even. A friend of mine "counterpicks" Lucario against another friend's GaW and he puts up a good fight. Wins at times.

 

[napZzz]

nah toon link and snake DESTROY game and watch. GaW used to be my main in brawl and it's a pain in the *** to face toon link and snake.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Played vs GaW for a while today, but it was mostly in FFAs. I did notice that fair has a decent amount of lag to be punishable...so if he's too eager and accidentally does (or purposefully does, but misses) a short hopped fair, punish away.

Also this is one of those matchups where I wouldn't recommend doing too many single, full-hopped nairs. They are just way to punishable and GaW can do some ridiculously low percent kills with his dsmash (90%ish on the sweetspot against me!). Lagless nairs are the way to go, since you can either retreat or immediately attack after one. Fyi, for those who don't know, that would be double jumping the nair (you have to nair as you rise on the 2nd jump, so you fall while finishing the fourth, knockback nair kick).

Btw great tip on the dair, shield-dropped-rolling nades in the path of his dair works really well. It's probably your best option because if you try to go behind him he'll just do a dsmash instead of the usual fsmash when he lands.

Oh and speaking of dsmash, it comes out quickly and often time I found the GaW I was facing used it more than once in a row, to try to punish shield grabbing or spot dodging. Watch out for that.

 

[Cecilanius]

Alright, I'll get this written up soon. I've been busy with the 4th of July weekend. Sorry about the wait.

 

[Cat Fight]

Brinstar has now replaced Distant Planet and Norfair as my favorite CP.

If I can get on a computer sometime today I'll post a thread.

Anyone willing to contribute to a Snake stage advantages and tricks thread?

 

[Hot_ArmS]

hey guys i was just talking to axelol and he gave vids of a set he did with ally

axelol's one of the best dk's out there HANDS DOWN, and ally one of the best snakes out there as well IMO...........i have as hard of a time playing ally as i do when i play rusty.......but i play ally online and rusty irl so take that info for what it's worth


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds-kmOBtKC0&NR=1


that's 4th match of their best of 5 set, axelol won the set but thats because ally went marth first match ........matches 3 and 4 are the matches ally beats axe

as you can see at 1:54 (and this wasnt mentioned at the front page) a good option in edgeguarding dk is dropping a c4 and detonating it right away.........idk what else to say but thats a pretty nice jv 2 stocking by ally

 

[Cat Fight]

hey guys i was just talking to axelol and he gave vids of a set he did with ally

axelol's one of the best dk's out there HANDS DOWN, and ally one of the best snakes out there as well IMO...........i have as hard of a time playing ally as i do when i play rusty.......but i play ally online and rusty irl so take that info for what it's worth


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds-kmOBtKC0&NR=1


that's 4th match of their best of 5 set, axelol won the set but thats because ally went marth first match ........matches 3 and 4 are the matches ally beats axe

as you can see at 1:54 (and this wasnt mentioned at the front page) a good option in edgeguarding dk is dropping a c4 and detonating it right away.........idk what else to say but thats a pretty nice jv 2 stocking by ally

Is this wifi?

 

[isomorphism]

Yeah, it's wifi.

 

[StoleUrCar]

I've played axe on AiB awhile back and his DK is a beast. Nice job on Allys part, although it was all on FD. He basically made axe chase him around a lot. BF on the other hand...axe's dk ***** there. Idk how.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

dk ***** in bf because its pretty small so less chasing around and dk's more able to effectively use his tilts

not to mention his aerials, his uair owns in bf because of the platforms, also its easier for him to get horizontal kills with his fsmash and punch, because as i said the whole things pretty small

so what did you guys think of the dropping c4 edgeguard?

also if you guys haven't played ally you should seek him out

 

[Cecilanius]

I put up the G&W matchup. I need help finding counter picks and bans, please. Could you guys help me out and explain why the stage is a good counter pick or ban?

Also, check for anything that you would like to fix. I was a little unsure on some things.

...One last thing...give me some suggestions on who to write on next.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

for GW i say ban RB, i dont know why but alot of GW users seem to cp that stage lol it got counterpicked on me once but i won anyway, other than that i havent played any other gw's on RB

gw seems to do fairly well in battlefield as well, they can really abuse the nair because of the lower platforms and the small stage limits ur maneuvering around the turtle, not to mention the uair can easily be spammed also

_____________________

i just read ur GW write up, and i agree that grenade is essential, GW's that ive played get confused when shield drop grenades are all over. Their preferred method of approach is gone when there's grenades on the ground, they can't also mindgame you as much with all the short hopping they usually do........just curious though can you stick GW while theyre rolling? cause if thats possible thatd be too good.........personally i like to bair GW as my edgeguard, either when hes falling under the stage to get a good distance to sweet spot the ledge or right after they up b to the ledge


One thing that i saw though was that in the write up you mentioned grabbing as a key to beating GW. Just be careful though as good GW's have very good spacing and DI with their bairs and fairs so even if you powershield it they still wont get grabbed or when u try to grab and fail they can quickly hit you with another bair

__________________________________________________

do mk next please, or lucario

2 of my worst matchups

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Best stage to CP G&W with is LC for its general advantages it gives Snake.

I say we do Lucario next. He seems to give Snake players problems from what I've been reading.

I've played axe on AiB awhile back and his DK is a beast. Nice job on Allys part, although it was all on FD. He basically made axe chase him around a lot. BF on the other hand...axe's dk ***** there. Idk how.

also if you guys haven't played ally you should seek him out

I've played Axe once. His DK destroyed me. Beastly DK. I've player Ally quite a bit actually (I get a blue connection with him). I have come close to beating Ally's Snake but haven't managed to do so yet. Both great players.

 

[Cecilanius]

for GW i say ban RB, i dont know why but alot of GW users seem to cp that stage lol it got counterpicked on me once but i won anyway, other than that i havent played any other gw's on RB

Which stage is RB again?

 

[Hot_ArmS]

RW = Rainbow cruise

a lot of the GW players in the AiB ladder like to cp RB

 

[StoleUrCar]

Umm...ban Yoshi Island for G&W. His key can go through the huge platform. He can fast fall through the huge platform into any aerial, often times a fair,bair. When you're caught on the sides of the stage, he can effectively pressure you with bair (since there's little breathing room on the sides) while being covered by the platform from above. If you try to approach from the air, not only does the platform block you, but his uair can reach right through it. Or he can up+b you immediately.

Thats just my opinion and from experience. Anyone disagree?

p.s. - I vote luigi. I rarely see those players complaining about Snake but I see it vice versa. Luigi can really open a can of **** once you're airborne, moreso than other characters.

 

[Cecilanius]

Umm...ban Yoshi Island for G&W. His key can go through the huge platform. He can fast fall through the huge platform into any aerial, often times a fair,bair. When you're caught on the sides of the stage, he can effectively pressure you with bair (since there's little breathing room on the sides) while being covered by the platform from above. If you try to approach from the air, not only does the platform block you, but his uair can reach right through it. Or he can up+b you immediately.

Thats just my opinion and from experience. Anyone disagree?

p.s. - I vote luigi. I rarely see those players complaining about Snake but I see it vice versa. Luigi can really open a can of **** once you're airborne, moreso than other characters.

Well, C4 is a huge problem when you are G&W on Yoshi's Island. The C4 takes up a lot of the stage and G&W can die fairly easily by it.

I guess you can just shield right through the aerials as G&W comes down and hits the big platform. After shielding you could just use an up tilt.

Just staying on the lower level while keeping a C4 on the big platform really helps win the battle.

Regarding the Luigi comment, I think I'd rather write about someone harder at the moment. Like Meta Knight or Lucario. I already have my mind filled with ideas of how to beat Luigi. He isn't as hard as it seems.

 

[Ken Neth]

I vote for Meta Knight. He's my hardest match-up for some reason...

 

[Azgner]

yeah, meta sounds nice

 

[Cecilanius]

Yeah, I guess we can start Meta Knight. Lemme update the thread and stuff.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Ok, I'm interested to see how people deal with his speedy-ness. Because that's really the best thing he's got over Snake. The dash-attack and dash-grab can be so annoying at times.

And the nice little gimpy shuttle loop lol. First few times I played MK I kept messing up the timing to dodge those and they are killer.

 

[Gindler]

I've been reading on matchup threads and tier list discussions that yoshi actually has an advantage on snake? is this true? cause honestly I can't see a reason why he would. So I thought I'd see what snake mains actually think.

 

[Cecilanius]

I've been reading on matchup threads and tier list discussions that yoshi actually has an advantage on snake? is this true? cause honestly I can't see a reason why he would. So I thought I'd see what snake mains actually think.

Well, maybe against a bad Snake. But, Yoshi is pretty easy overall. Grenades can really nullify Yoshi's aerials. Snake can also gimp Yoshi's recovery quite well.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

lol i got 2 stocked by a good yoshi on fd, i beat him on sv though and 2 stock on luigis mansion

the eggs are a pain to play against, u shield the eggs and he runs up to you for a dash attack or a grab which can lead to aerial combos

also u cant shield poke yoshi so he can just shield ur tilts and do his jab, ur grenades cant shield poke him either

edit: yoshi can also gimp snakes recovery easy

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

If you want to beat meta with snake, ALWAYS have grenades on the level or in hand. Because of the large hit boxes of all his attacks, hitting snake with a grenade is a no. Grenades also shut down tornado. Keep in mind that all your attacks lose to OTG tornado so don't try to hit it with anything except grenade counter, or just chuck a grenade in it. Eventually MK will get the idea and stop using it. This is where the fun begins. Shut down MK's approach with f.tilt, it should beat out almost all of his ground game in terms of range. MK's aerial game is shut down by u.tilt, and I know it's normally saved for a killing blow, but if the MK is giving you trouble with his air game, don't hesitate to u.tilt.

Most importantly, always try to keep grenades out when you can, since they hinder MKs rush. If the MK gets smart and starts turtling / trying to space you out, start cooking grenades and tossing him at him. Eventually he will have to come to you, and you win that game.

When you're recovering, be wary of nair and up B. Air dodge up B when you see MK go for the spacing, and try not to recover close to the stage where he can easily get in range for a sweet spot nair. Your best bet is to recover high up and drop down with an air dodge. Once there, resume shutting him down with u.tilts and f.tilts.

As for stages to fight MK on, I'm not sure what's good for snake, but stay away from luigi's mansion. Tornado and the ceiling can be a nightmare for you there, because u.tilt will no longer be your go-to kill move.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Yea Luigi's Mansion is definitely an MK counterpick against Snake. If you somehow aren't able to ban it, work to destroy the mansion while playing defensively with nades, then demolish him in the brief amount of time the mansion is gone. Remember, break top pillars first then bottom pillars. Surprisingly many ppl don't know this.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Found something out and I'm not sure it's been mentioned.

If MK is trying to fly under Smashville (you know how they like to glide under the stage and to the opposite side), and you have a C4 on the main platform, you can time your detonation and it will hit MK through the stage and stage-spike him. I mean it's sort of based on luck if you have the C4 lined up just right when he's rising in his glide, but man this is funny as hell when you land it. Sort of demoralizing to the MK if there are people watching

 

[Cecilanius]

Found something out and I'm not sure it's been mentioned.

If MK is trying to fly under Smashville (you know how they like to glide under the stage and to the opposite side), and you have a C4 on the main platform, you can time your detonation and it will hit MK through the stage and stage-spike him. I mean it's sort of based on luck if you have the C4 lined up just right when he's rising in his glide, but man this is funny as hell when you land it. Sort of demoralizing to the MK if there are people watching

Haha, I'd rather keep my C4 on the moving platform though. Even though it's unlikely that you will use it, there's that chance that MK's UP+B will fly/land near it.

 

[Jos]

As stated grenades work wonders against MK. A very aggressive MK can hurt snake bad - a healthy amount of shielded grenades will make them less apt to attack and abuse their speed. Their side B is very predictable - a well place grenade punishes it well.

Utilt PWNS tornado , it will stop it in it's tracks and send the MK in the air. They also probably won't be expecting this.

The MK will try to get you in the air, Bair hurts MK pretty badly, as it has priority over a number of his aerials. Don't try to Fair him though...a good MK won't let you pull that off.

SH Dairs can work well against MKs Dsmash if spaced properly, as well as his Dtilt. His Dtilt will stop your Ftilt so be carefull of it.

Almost all MKs will attack out of their shuttle loop, shield grabbing them after they do this is a great way to punish it. And when they are discouraged from attacking out of it, a well timed Fsmash can turn the match around in your favor / give you a nice lead. Or to go for something less risky, your choice of tilt will punish well also.

His Fmash has horrible lag, not to mention he makes a sound during the start up lag so you always know it's coming. If they are stupid enough to use it anytime besides when your falling into its range, ftilt/utilt/grab as soon as he starts it up.

MKs glide grab (i think thats what it's called?) can help him rack up a lot of dmg against snake...if you see him gliding at you quickly do not shield. Either space a tilt well, or spot dodge then punish.

I think thats all I have on MK..i'm tired (excuse the spelling errors please) I'm going to bed.

PS: Why is this thread no stickied???

 

[StoleUrCar]

woa I didn't know utilt outprioritized tornado.

 

[Cecilanius]

A grenade is probably safer to use than using up tilt.