The untapped potential of Shieldbreaker

[The_Marth_Madness]

Some zoning tips I have come to theory with that I want to type down before I forget:

(before you read, know that I am in a very strange mood...)

When I say look, I mean check to see what your opponent does so you can react accordingly.

Short hop, immediatly Fair (Look), Forward B to stop momentum while tapping their shield (Look), then.... AHEM.... SHIELD BREAAAAAKER

Basically all the other stuff I've concocted in my dizzy mind is the same action as above, but different order, and with ground moves added. Also, try conditioning your opponent to sense when you are about to ... Ahem... SHIELD BREAAAAKER, so that you may throw an unsuspected shield breaker earlier, or later in your zoning... Okay, what is zoning anyway? I know I've using the word in my post, but I don't EXACTLY understand the meaning. It just means space camp them right?

fdlahgfdsgkdsghfdls

Have fun!

Also, quick question, does his ASAI frames work int he air too?

 

[BacklashMarth]

Cool another marth in Cali!!!! Sorry, can't help you with the zoning tho. Not totally sure what it means myself.

 

[feardragon64]

It's(zoning that is) basically another way of talking about spacing. Think of it like this. There are a few types of "zones"

1) Both opponents are too far away to hit each other at all.(this probably requires lack of projectiles or projectiles that can't reach the specific positioning).

2) One of you guys can hit the other person, but they can't hit you. For math, that would often be the tipper point for you. This is the way you want it to be. For a lot of other characters, that point is where they can hit you with a projectile but marth doesn't have one so he can't hit back. That's the area you want to avoid always.

3) Both of you can hit each other. This is basically where it becomes intense, who is going to get the hit in first kinda thing.

I would put marth's shieldbreaker in number 2 category(where MARTH can hit them but they can't hit you except with a projectile) often times because it reaches out pretty **** far. =]

Anyways, that's the general idea of how I look at zoning/spacing(actually stolen from martial arts and adapted for brawl.

Fun fact: I just mispelt martial as "marth"al arts. How epic is that?

 

[BacklashMarth]

Marthal arts? Lol. I wanna take that class.

 

[∫unk]

Bumping for Emblem because he somehow believes this wasn't worthy of his own bump ><

We really need a sticky thread with links to all these threads.

 

[HolyForce]

The shieldbreaker is a good tool against a grenade dropping Snake. Snakes drop their grenades by shielding. There is many possible situations, but many lead you your non-charged shield breaker hitting Snake after he guarded his own grenade under pressure, resulting in a broken shield and potential free kill. Also, the shieldbreaker doesn't hit grenades on the ground because it's up high enough to miss them.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

*Bump* Because good stuff like this shouldn't be on the second page!

Recap:

- This move is Marth's longest range attack.
- It's safe on block when spaced properly against most characters.
- Can be used out of a dash and Jump
- Sets up beautifully for D-tilt.Dancing Blade pokes
- The fully charged supertip kills at lower percents then a full charged tipped F-Smash.
- The move has 5 points, no hit/weak/strong/stronger/strongest, starting from Marth Body all the way out to the sparkle OFF the tip of Marth's sword
- Kills Jigglypuff is you manage to break the shield...
- Has recovery potential


Seriously people... use this move!

 

[Dark Sonic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJHMdrpL3bY

As if we needed more reason to use this move.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJHMdrpL3bY

As if we needed more reason to use this move.

Holy McJebus. I just LOL'd to the point I actually ROFLCOPTER'd.

Seriously. Use this move. It's my favourite move. xD

 

[Fatalized]

wow...go0d job mman...i think i should start usin this move more

 

[GenesisJLS]

Emblem's Threads > M2K's

 

[meepxzero]

Emblem's Threads > M2K's

not quite there both good in different ways. I found m2ks frame data of the standard marth moves REALLY important for marths gameplay just a lotta marths dont know how to make the most of it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh?

Keep this foolishness out of my threads. I don't need a fanboy war going on.

No offense to M2K or anyone else.

Meep: Good **** on 4th.

Your moving on up. Keep up the good work. If you place well, and people see you doing stuff that I talk about then, that means I won't have to place with Marth for people to know the **** I say works.

LOL!

 

[meepxzero]

Surely but steadily marth is gonna get higher =D

 

[mosesrko24]

Hey EL, I know you must be tired of people asking you this, but why don't you record yourself?Since

you're the leader of these boards, you could show everyone uses for the waveblade, etc.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Hey EL, I know you must be tired of people asking you this, but why don't you record yourself?Since

you're the leader of these boards, you could show everyone uses for the waveblade, etc.

Be carefull. You don't wanna add gasoline to the fanboy war Emblem Lord was talking about. However, if there was an election for "leader" of the marth boards, I'd vote for him.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Please people, stay on topic here. This thread is devoted to the development of a still rarely used Marth technique.

I'm finding it easiest to get this off when fair zoning. That is, when your JUST outside of your actual fair range, trying to bait an attack from your opponent. You opponent will often approach outside of the common F-smash range, but still will be able to be hit by Shieldbreaker.

Likewise, when your opponent is shield-grab happy, try approaching with a Fair, then move back with a SB. You'll be well out of range for most characters AND you just smashed a chunk of the shield, leading to a D-tilt poke or Dancing Blades.

God, I love this move...

 

[mosesrko24]

When I said leader, I meant most knowledgeable. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but he clearly knows

what he's talking about judging by the quality of his posts. If you do know any one who posts more useful

info about marth, let me know. Not trying to be mean, by the way.

 

[GenesisJLS]

Please people, stay on topic here. This thread is devoted to the development of a still rarely used Marth technique.

I'm finding it easiest to get this off when fair zoning. That is, when your JUST outside of your actual fair range, trying to bait an attack from your opponent. You opponent will often approach outside of the common F-smash range, but still will be able to be hit by Shieldbreaker.

Likewise, when your opponent is shield-grab happy, try approaching with a Fair, then move back with a SB. You'll be well out of range for most characters AND you just smashed a chunk of the shield, leading to a D-tilt poke or Dancing Blades.

God, I love this move...

I've completely neglected SB because of the lack of setups. I've tried the short hop to shield breaker but, I almost always take a significant amount of damage. The fair bait seems good but again, it will only work tops 3 times during a match. My favorite still is the stage recovery aspect of it. Coming back on the stage towards an edge guarding and miraculously KOing them with it is extremely gratifying.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I haven't even implemented 1/4 of what Marth is capable of with his special moves into my game play.

I still have a long road ahead of me in terms of utilizing the full potential of Marth's Shieldbreaker.

Also I don't record myself, because I'm honestly not good and I wouldn't want to dissappoint anyone.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I haven't even implemented 1/4 of what Marth is capable of with his special moves into my game play.

I still have a long road ahead of me in terms of utilizing the full potential of Marth's Shieldbreaker.

Also I don't record myself, because I'm honestly not good and I wouldn't want to dissappoint anyone.

This has got to be the hardest part about Marth in Brawl. He WORKS just using Fair, D-tilt, F-Smash and Dancing Blade. If you watch tournament Marth's, its common to see nothing but these moves, and they still do well.

However, we all know through experimenting that Marth's moves are almost entirely useful, and makes Marth potentially one of the hardest characters to properly predict and counter. He also has a few totally unique moves (Dancing Blade and Sheildbreaker, and to a lesser extent, Counter and Dolphin Slash), that allow him to respond to situations in a way that no character can.

I see Marth becoming one of those characters that will only become better with time, with practically limitless potential. He also is awesome because he can fall back onto his simplistic and effective tactics as well.

God I love Marth. xD

 

[Emblem Lord]

LOL! Whatever happend to you and Ike?

I don't check the Ike boards often. I heard RoK is pretty much the de facto leader over there.

Hahah, did anyone notice how every character forum has 1 or 2 leaders right now? lol.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

LOL! Whatever happend to you and Ike?

I don't check the Ike boards often. I heard RoK is pretty much the de facto leader over there.

Hahah, did anyone notice how every character forum has 1 or 2 leaders right now? lol.

I totally gave up on Ike once I was getting gimped at 50% on practically every stock. Power and range are nice, but when your recovery is nearly as gimpable as Olimar... you start thinking your power and strength aren't enough.

Then I found Marth, who was faster, could actually recover, had WAY better shield pressing and still had quite a bit of power. I was practically sold the second I started fooling around with Shieldbreaker. It had everything I liked about Ike in a single move. xD

I'm sure the Ike boards are missing me. There isn't anything of substance on the first page after I let my matchup guide flush down the tube. Most of the board is flooded with newbies asking the same **** questions, and the few good threads are abandoned by the few good Ike players on the board.

If RoK is becoming the leader of the boards, god help them. RoK is the most egotistical and cocky player I have ever met. He isn't even that good, either. He tries to lead, but really only knows how to dictate. I would sincerely hope that Ussi or Kirk or Silven step up and show RoK where to go, otherwise Ike is truly doomed to be like Roy...

So now I'm trying to place my talents here in the Marth Boards, but its obvious the you have the most authority here, and have already created threads on many topics that I would usually cover. My goal is merely help on what you lay out so well.

 

[∫unk]

When I said leader, I meant most knowledgeable. I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but he clearly knows

what he's talking about judging by the quality of his posts. If you do know any one who posts more useful

info about marth, let me know. Not trying to be mean, by the way.

no love for junk

emblem's, m2k's, and my posts are all useful imo. Emblem has more patience than me though lol

one thing that bugs me with this move is how weak it is if you don't tip. it's actually punishable if you don't tip.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I would prefer if Versatile took the lead, but I think his Ike fanboyism is a little strong. He somewhat blinds hmself to Ike's faults.

I remember he compared Ike to T4 Jin. Ike is CERTAINLY not compareable to Jin in anyway.

Jin was a monster. Ike...isn't.

I dunno if Rok will lead as it was just a rumor I heard. The Ike boards are definitely in disarray right now though.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

The Ike boards have always been in disarray. Remember the opening days of the forum, before the game even came out? Two guilds set up, and practically had civil war with each other? That board is far more focused on proving themselves as player rather than developing the character, which is why it's doomed to fail.

Versatile is a pretty good poster, but yes, he is VERY blind to Ike's flaws. Remember how strongly he fought against Yuna on the jab issue? Oh man, I'll never forget that one. xD

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well I guess that's what happens when all the Roy fans move into another board. Same old stupid stuff going on, just a different character.

It was hilarious when the Marth boards got seperated from the Roy boards. The spam threads just instantly disappeared and EVERYONE started posting relevant info. It was amazing.

The Roy boards just sunk deeper into chaos. Very sad. But oh well. I'm just doing my part for Marth. Anyway, I have maybe 1 or 2 threads left in me and then...I dunno.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Well I guess that's what happens when all the Roy fans move into another board. Same old stupid stuff going on, just a different character.

It was hilarious when the Marth boards got seperated from the Roy boards. The spam threads just instantly disappeared and EVERYONE started posting relevant info. It was amazing.

The Roy boards just sunk deeper into chaos. Very sad. But oh well. I'm just doing my part for Marth. Anyway, I have maybe 1 or 2 threads left in me and then...I dunno.

After that... it'll all just be about proving our theories in matches eh? xD

So many people in the Smash community discredit Marth. Everyone can agree he's good, but our discoveries... oh man, they could make him so much better than that! Imagine when Marth players finally start using ALL of Marth's techniques...it will be amazing.

I personally think with time, Marth will surpass even Metaknight. There is just that much untapped potential in there. And, since I think people are learning how to finally deal with Snake, he'll be dropping to. I don't think it's too far fetched to see Marth dominant in this game. What do you think?

 

[Emblem Lord]

SHHHHHHH!!!!!

>_<

They'll HEAR you!!!!!

Seriously, all the other character boards underestimate Marth or think he isn't a threat save for a few. I don't really care though. No other board has made as many discoveries or put as much effort into a character as the Marth boards have and had this much success. I feel like Marth's potential keeps growing while alot of the other characters are stagnating.

Sure, Marth might lose the surprise factor for someo f this stuff when people learn what to do against, but something like Shieldbreaker is such a powerful tool that directly attacks a cornerstone of the competitive metagame which is to be campy and defensive. I feel like Marth is the most well rounded character in the game and I do think he is no less then 5th best. I think the only reason he doesn't win alot is because the pros have condemned him so people don't want to give him a chance.

As for Marth compared to MK. Well as characters I feel like they are comparable, and when making the transition from one to the other you give up certain strengths for others and you also gain weaknesses as you lose other weaknesses. I just feel like MK's specific combination of pros and cons allows him to be a slightly better character.

Overall I think Marth and MK are superior to Snake. Snake gets by because of his hitboxes which are silly and his weight. Other then that I think MK and Marth outclass him.

I dunno if Marth can be number 1, but he can certainly get into the top tier with Snake and MK.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

SHHHHHHH!!!!!

>_<

They'll HEAR you!!!!!

Seriously, all the other character boards underestimate Marth or think he isn't a threat save for a few. I don't really care though. No other board has made as many discoveries or put as much effort into a character as the Marth boards have and had this much success. I feel like Marth's potential keeps growing while alot of the other characters are stagnating.

Sure, Marth might lose the surprise factor for someo f this stuff when people learn what to do against, but something like Shieldbreaker is such a powerful tool that directly attacks a cornerstone of the competitive metagame which is to be campy and defensive. I feel like Marth is the most well rounded character in the game and I do think he is no less then 5th best. I think the only reason he doesn't win alot is because the pros have condemned him so people don't want to give him a chance.

As for Marth compared to MK. Well as characters I feel like they are comparable, and when making the transition from one to the other you give up certain strengths for others and you also gain weaknesses as you lose other weaknesses. I just feel like MK's specific combination of pros and cons allows him to be a slightly better character.

Overall I think Marth and MK are superior to Snake. Snake gets by because of his hitboxes which are silly and his weight. Other then that I think MK and Marth outclass him.

I dunno if Marth can be number 1, but he can certainly get into the top tier with Snake and MK.

YES! Someone else who doesn't think Snake is King of Brawl. If there is anything I've noticed about Snake, its that the more you camp versus him, the better he does. Every second you give him a chance to stifle your momentum, the more of a stranglehold he gets on you. He's a control character through and through, and everyone is starting to learn how to break that control. I like it.

I still think Marth is better than Metaknight because of moves like Shieldbreaker. I think that Marth's specials will break Brawl. No other character has the potential in their B like Marth. The issue is, no one is using them yet. We're all still stuck (including myself) in using our basic Fairs, tilts and Tipper to build up our Marths.

Metaknight is a character who is good because all of his moves are nigh unpunishable and link togeather well. He doesn't do anything unique or special. Marth too has moves that are nigh unpunishable and link togeather well, he just isn't concidered as good because his recovery isn't on the same level. However, once Marth players master that B button and start breaking shields, breaking all combos and busting every approach or aggressive action, people will seriously reconcider Marth.

Just my 2 cents. xD

 

[∫unk]

You know Emblem... our threads lack videos. Just saying.

 

[meepxzero]

lol @ marth and his options..... everytime i touch brawl i find something new for marth thats surprisingly useful.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

lol @ marth and his options..... everytime i touch brawl i find something new for marth thats surprisingly useful.

This will be why Marth gets top tier... nigh unlimited potential that's BARELY been tapped by pros yet... He'll dominate Brawl too, just you wait!

 

[alchfilosofer]

You know Emblem... our threads lack videos. Just saying.

Yea, to be honest, that is probably the only thing Emblem Lord treat lacks, but hell he don't need them, cause it is more than enough whit just his intelligence.

This will be why Marth gets top tier... nigh unlimited potential that's BARELY been tapped by pros yet... He'll dominate Brawl too, just you wait!

I know, marth may have one of the most intelligent community in all the smash world. He is really lucky and he seriously recompense us for getting more into his game play.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Though I haven't been progress that much with his shieldbreaker, I've had tons of success abusing Marth's up B. It breaks through normally high priority attacks, it outspeeds everything that comes my way, and it makes edgeguarding me nearly impossible (as if that wasn't already hard to do). It breaks through combos, relieves shield pressure, and basically destroys even the most effective approach games (I'm talking about you Metaknight).

Now, If I could just get more consistant spacing that shieldbreaker. When I space it right, I end up safe 90% of the time, especially when I use up B to stop the faster characters from punishing me (once again, I'm talking about you Metaknight). But I still have to much trouble with the B reversals and wavebounces to effectively add it to my mixup games.

 

[Doodx]

lol my friend is starting to stop shielding because he got koed alot of times just from shieldbreaker breaking his shield

 

[Fatalized]

i took out Ike with a full charge shieldbreaker...He wuz using his shield to0 lol
so he wuz nock ed out n i fully charged tip his ***.

 

[Ether]

Here are a few ideas:

1. When you die and respawn, walk to your opponent (who will most likely shield) and use shieldbreaker. Your opponent will probably roll past you, so follow that up with a shieldbreaker in the opposite direction. Consider going nuts with shieldbreaker while you have invincibility frames.

2. Dtilt->Shieldbreaker->repeat. With good spacing, this might force your opponent to roll.

3. uncharged Shieldbreaker->dancing blade. Make the last hit the down version (multi-stab), and you should get a free shield stab.

4. Airdodge through your opponent, turn around and use shieldbreaker. This will work if their instinct is to shield when their opponent is behind them. If their instinct is to roll, airdodge through them, use one hit of the dancing blade to try and lock them, and then use shieldbreaker. If their instinct is to attack, airdodge through them, use the first hit of the dancing blade to check if they are attacking, and if so, finish the dancing blade.

5. Upthrow an opponent onto a platform, then full hop a charged shieldbreaker as they get up (hopefully they'll miss the tech). Don't land on the platform...fall to the ground below so you don't get punished.


I'll these out when I go to my friend's tonight.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Sh-sh-sh-shieldbreaker!

Tee hee!

Marth's B moves WILL break this game. They allow Marth to do things no other character can. I love it.

Shieldbreaker is a move that will break Snake in my opinion. He doesn't have a decent answer to you doing it. His projectiles are too slow, and his amazingly long tilts just aren't amazingly long enough. And since we all KNOW that Snake's freakin' love there shield, this is great.

Also, its awesome for throwing them off when you're gimping Snake's recovery. Usually, they'd expect you to run off the stage to ht them with a Fair or Nair right? A Shieldbreaker will allow you to hit them farther away then they would usually expect and break into their "comfort zone".

Also, our friend here was totally correct on the D-tilt -> Shieldbreaker. Its amazingly easy to set it up, and heck, it set up pokes like CRAZY.

DDDDDDAAAAAUUUMMMMMMMM! I love this move. >.>

 

[alchfilosofer]

Sh-sh-sh-shieldbreaker!

Tee hee!

Marth's B moves WILL break this game. They allow Marth to do things no other character can. I love it.

Shieldbreaker is a move that will break Snake in my opinion. He doesn't have a decent answer to you doing it. His projectiles are too slow, and his amazingly long tilts just aren't amazingly long enough. And since we all KNOW that Snake's freakin' love there shield, this is great.

Also, its awesome for throwing them off when you're gimping Snake's recovery. Usually, they'd expect you to run off the stage to ht them with a Fair or Nair right? A Shieldbreaker will allow you to hit them farther away then they would usually expect and break into their "comfort zone".

Also, our friend here was totally correct on the D-tilt -> Shieldbreaker. Its amazingly easy to set it up, and heck, it set up pokes like CRAZY.

DDDDDDAAAAAUUUMMMMMMMM! I love this move. >.>

I heard of someone shield breaker IS a good option against snake (grenades are in trouble, it don't hit them if they are on ground, and if the opponent like to hold and shield whit grenades... you can imagine the result... and also the super tip is useful against snakes awesome up-smash).