The untapped potential of Shieldbreaker

[feardragon64]

I wouldn't suggest spamming it or even using it as much as his other staple moves. What I am saying is that it could stand to be used a bit more in Marth's game.

Exactly. This move is only truly useful when used sparringly. Overuse makes it clear what one's goal is and sets up a situation where punishment WILL come, even if it is safe on block(they'll anticipate it and not even have to block it, etc.) But previously there was an underuse of it where people might use it purely for recover. It's a good tactic to throw in there, but it shouldn't be overused or its use is spoiled.

I recommend throwing this into a match after the opponent has gotten a vague feel for your play style to further confuse them

 

[wazgood]

The untapped potential of Shieldbreaker

i tapped that.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

The absolute sweetspot on this technique is amazingly far away. Significantly farther than his F-Smash. Probably 50% farther. Thats the part that does 24. Its actually PAST the little sparkle on the move, and the knockback on it is amazing at the tip. I can't simulate the 26% one though.

BTW, the uncharged and partially charged techniques don't seem to affected by the tipper at all. Only the full charged attack is. However, the tippers greatest advantage is the range of course. The only attacks I can think of that can hit you at THAT range are smashes and projectiles, which probably aren't fast enough, or deal enough damage to justify me NOT weakening your shield. A few characters could though; Zamus for example. Dash attacks might work too.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So, exactly how strong is an uncharged "true tip" shield breaker? Like, can someone test what percentage it kills Mario at on FD or something (I don't have access to brawl atm.)

 

[Emblem Lord]

True tip just gives more knockback, but yeah I'm interested in what percentage it kills.

Also I'm going to do a list of all the percentages that opponents die at a fully charged hit of all 3 ranges.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, I'm more interested in the knockback than the damage itself, as it's rediculous range is just so appealing. I was thinking of using it as a punisher for laggy attacks or mis spaced ones. That's only if it's actually stronger than F-smash though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The knockback certainly isn't greater then f-smash.

But the range is far greater.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, I guess it still has it's uses.

Breaking shields is still one of the most awesome and intimidating thing you could do to a person during a match though. And then you'd have them hesitating the whole match looking for shieldbreakers. lol

 

[meepxzero]

Well, I guess it still has it's uses.

Breaking shields is still one of the most awesome and intimidating thing you could do to a person during a match though. And then you'd have them hesitating the whole match looking for shieldbreakers. lol

Thats the whole fun of marth messing with their head ;D

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

So, exactly how strong is an uncharged "true tip" shield breaker? Like, can someone test what percentage it kills Mario at on FD or something (I don't have access to brawl atm.)

I just tested, it kills Mario at 185%.
A non tipped one kills at 200ish.

A full charged, tipped kills at 50%.
A full charged, untipped kills at 75%.

As for partially charged, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd assume the gap gets bigger as the charge time gets longer.

 

[Emblem Lord]

True tip probably kills Mario sooner then 50%, since I tested it on Dedede and it killed at a little over 50%.

 

[feardragon64]

Here's my question. I've been playing against a friend and once every 15 or so games, I get a nice shieldbreaker. But for some reason, it's usually when decay might have acted up a bit, and my opponents % is somewhat low because they just respawned. Now, I do a fully charged fsmash, tipped and everything, and he goes pretty **** far, but he doesn't k.o.(i'm talking like only 20 to 30% here). What I'm wondering is if this fully charged super tip will give better knockback than a fully charged fsmash. It seems impractical, but I literally just want to know for my occasional shieldbreaks =] (expecially since the only time you can REALLY position yourself for a supertip is after a shield break >>)

 

[hizzlum]

Shieldbreaker is a good move at marth disposal that creates a lot of problems for defensive people, which is a lot in brawl, thankfully some started a thread about this. Emblem Lord, being one of the most knowledgeable marth's in brawl(iono about melee, never heard you talk much of it) could you just make a thread about marth;s notable weaknesses, and underated moves(like this thread), beacuse people keep on using marth the same style as melee, and dont realize how good he is(recovery for example, people donot see his multiple options and dont know his ability to go under battlefield and get to the other side, an example of how good marth's recovery is). It would be a great information thread that would show the truth about marth and probably get lots of hits

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

True tip probably kills Mario sooner then 50%, since I tested it on Dedede and it killed at a little over 50%.

Well, I did round to the nearest 5 so... that might explain it. At anyrate, it kill LOW when full charged, not to useful when not charged though. Probably COULD set up for edge-guards at 100ish percent.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The true tip seems to have a tiny bit more knockback then a tipper.

But I have to test it again.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

After trying to utilize this move into my gameplay, its definitely a killer move. The huge damage it does to shields is awesome, and the sheer range makes it almost totally safe on block when combined with IASA frames.

Interesting thing though, I can't seem to Short Hop Fast Fall this technique. Its as if the game won't allow the fast fall while charging, which kinda sucks for making the move more unpredictable.

I found that a Short Hopped Fair or Nair into this is effective as well. The aerials protect an approach while the Shield Breaker pokes on the landing. One Shieldbreaker seems to kill the shield enough to stay D-tilt poking to. Yay!

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have been using this more and more and I consistently break my opponents shield at least once per match against human opponents.

It's easy to do as well once you pick up on basic tendancies that people have to shield at certain times.

I usually do a SH Shieldbreaker when someone tech rolls or techs in place. Most people just shield even when they KNOW what you are going to do. Also even when you SH at someone in thier face they will shield alot of the time, since playing Brawl has trained EVERYONE to shield and punish.

And you don't have to beat on someone's shield that much to be able to break it. Hit it a few times with some tipper hits then you can break it easily.

Also being able to run and Shieldbreaker is awesome. So now Marth can mix-up his approach really well and be very threatening.

It's so beautiful. Plus that added range really helps him out vs R.O.B and Snake.

And it ROCKS characters that HAVE to be defensive like Dedede. Characters like that who shieldcamp alot are easy prey for Shieldbreaker.

 

[∫unk]

Also being able to run and Shieldbreaker is awesome. So now Marth can mix-up his approach really well and be very threatening.

THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT. Found out the other day during a match. Being able to have similar impact to fsmash on your dash is invaluable (all other approaches off a dash aren't nearly as powerful). Not quite the dash crouch canceled fsmash of melee (because the hitbox is only horizontal and not above you), but the application is the same.

This will catch opponents off guard.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I have been using this more and more and I consistently break my opponents shield at least once per match against human opponents.

It's easy to do as well once you pick up on basic tendancies that people have to shield at certain times.

I usually do a SH Shieldbreaker when someone tech rolls or techs in place. Most people just shield even when they KNOW what you are going to do. Also even when you SH at someone in thier face they will shield alot of the time, since playing Brawl has trained EVERYONE to shield and punish.

And you don't have to beat on someone's shield that much to be able to break it. Hit it a few times with some tipper hits then you can break it easily.

Also being able to run and Shieldbreaker is awesome. So now Marth can mix-up his approach really well and be very threatening.

It's so beautiful. Plus that added range really helps him out vs R.O.B and Snake.

And it ROCKS characters that HAVE to be defensive like Dedede. Characters like that who shieldcamp alot are easy prey for Shieldbreaker.

*Tears a little*

Brawl finally has more than one character that doesn't care how well you shield camp. (G&W could before this with Bair).

May this be the first of many discoveries like this!

 

[Crizthakidd]

it actually breaks shields now?

no waii

 

[phi1ny3]

Good discussion. Knew that it was worth investing in Marth (especially this neut. b) when the others gave up in my school!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Something new I found out, but kind of useless.

ShieldBreaker has another hitbox.

The spacing for it is close enough so that you don't get the 22% from a full charge but far enough that you don't get the 18%.

This hitbox does 20% in damage and only has a bit more knockback then the close hit for 18%.

So there are 4 hit boxes in total it seems.

Right next to your opponent = 18% in damage when fully charged and minimal knockback

Close range = 20% in damage and slightly increased knockback, but still moderately low.

Tipper range = 22% in damage and great knockback. Only a little less then a fully charged tipper f-smash it seems.

Critical stab = 24% in damage and huge knockback. Has a bit more knockback then a fully charged tipper f-smash.

 

[phi1ny3]

Something new I found out, but kind of useless.

ShieldBreaker has another hitbox.

The spacing for it is close enough so that you don't get the 22% from a full charge but far enough that you don't get the 18%.

This hitbox does 20% in damage and only has a bit more knockback then the close hit for 18%.

So there are 4 hit boxes in total it seems.

Right next to your opponent = 18% in damage when fully charged and minimal knockback

Close range = 20% in damage and slightly increased knockback, but still moderately low.

Tipper range = 22% in damage and great knockback. Only a little less then a fully charged tipper f-smash it seems.

Critical stab = 24% in damage and huge knockback. Has a bit more knockback then a fully charged tipper f-smash.

Kind of a joke, but u also need to put in 1 more hitbox.

Weaksauce range = 0% what happens when he's right next to u. You step right past him, doing nothing. This is not ur day. T.T

But yes, this is a good chart for range.

 

[wazgood]

also a 1/2 damage tip w/ no knockback im pretty sure

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Just thought I'd let you all know...

In set of 5 matches...

I broke 5 shields.

I KO'ed with the partially charged tip twice.

I hit with the uncharged tip several times which led to edgeguards.

I don't know even wanna know how many D-tilt pokes I got as a result of the reduced shields.

The potential on this technique is insane.

 

[Ciel~Image]

Also being able to run and Shieldbreaker is awesome. So now Marth can mix-up his approach really well and be very threatening.

How do you do that? Is it just shield-canceling (or whatever) your dash, or using the IASA frames on the dash stopping animation to go into it?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just go into a full run and hit the b button.

 

[∫unk]

...wouldn't that result in the dancing blade? i thought you were sh before the shieldbreaker....

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hahah. Of course you will want to release the analog so when you hit b you get the Shieldbreaker and not the Dancing Blade.

 

[∫unk]

Hmm... every time I've tried that I just got ***** waiting for dash animation to end and for the startup of the shieldbreaker. SH backwards is safer no?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Waiting for the dash to end? You need to do no such thing. When you are in a full run just let go of the analog and immediately hit the b button.

 

[∫unk]

Ah gotcha yeah now it works.

 

[Warlock*G]

Why not bump that **** up?

 

[meepxzero]

Probably my favorite thing to do is use shield breaker than within a few seconds find the time to fsmash them. Even if they shield their shields too small and they still eat it.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I always fully charge a tipper Shield-breaker to kill. Its not degenerated at all because its almost always hitting shields. Besides, its for more LOLZ when you die from a move that people consider crappy. Everyone already hates the F-Smash, lets make them start hating another move. ^^

 

[∫unk]

Can someone do a study on approximately how much time you have once the shield is broken?

I know for a fact Wario gets out of a shieldbreak really, really quickly. As in, faster than you can charge up your shieldbreaker/f-smash. Maybe we should get a list of how long you have to hit them. It would be lame to break a shield then not be able to capitalize on it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh?

No one has ever gotten out of stun before I could charge my shieldbreaker.

No one.

Seems like Marth has more then enough time to charge especially since they pop up into the air then land and THEN they have to get back up.

I'll test it with my friend today though.

 

[meepxzero]

lol funniest thing to do is miss a tipped shield breaker than just do a tipper fsmashed.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So me and my boy tesed this with Wario.

He mashed the hell out of the buttons when I broke his shield. He never got out in time and there were times when I even missed the first ShieldBreaker and I still had time to charge another one.

I don't think anyone can mash out in time.

 

[∫unk]

k not sure how he escaped then... maybe a platform drop or something... i dunno we were playing some dumb custom stage anyway he was showing me taunt cancelling