The Unofficial Offical MLG Ruleset Discussion

[Raziek]

The only issue I have with 2 bans is it makes MK even stronger by allowing him to strike both Green Greens and FD.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Christ, yes it does. Unless you're trying to get hacked Brawl as a tournament standard, luck will always be a part of the game. Always. Jeez, what's with all the stage johns? It's not like you can't see things coming.

And for the record, if you hit me 70 times with no lava, and I hit you into the lava six times and win, I outplayed you. I had better DI than you to survive 70 hits, and I saw opportunities to use stage control / positioning against you, and then successfully applied knockback angles to capitalize on those positioning advantages.

Just because you don't like that it was lava and not an F-smash doesn't mean that you didn't get outplayed.

<3

Also, which is more under your control-tripping into snake's Fsmash, or getting grabbed and dthrowed by snake into an inescapable lava hit on norfair or car hit on Port Town? Ban brawl; it's random. You guys are NUTS.

This is so true when I first looked at the stages I assumed that if they increased the stages like this then they would increase the bans. I think 2 bans would be good. MLG ruleset = fail.

Well, of course, this kinda breaks top tiers...

The only issue I have with 2 bans is it makes MK even stronger by allowing him to strike both Green Greens and Halberd.

Fix'd

 

[Jack Kieser]

<3

Oh, the same to you. Definitely. +1 to logical posters.

Also, which is more under your control-tripping into snake's Fsmash, or getting grabbed and dthrowed by snake into an inescapable lava hit on norfair or car hit on Port Town?

Getting D-thrown into lava or a car; in order for him to throw me, he has to grab me first, which means either I have to do something stupid or screw up spacing/mindgaming. Totally my fault. Besides, if the lava is coming up, or the cars are approaching, I can always choose not to engage.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Rhetorical question was rhetoric. :V

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The only issue I have with 2 bans is it makes MK even stronger by allowing him to strike both Green Greens and FD.

Is green greens really that bad for Mk ?

 

[san.]

The camera shift should give away most of the hazards in Norfair.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Rhetorical question was rhetoric. :V

Yes, but obviously some people are having extreme difficulty understanding such a simple concept as "what it means to have control of your situation". Hence the answering for them.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yes, but obviously some people are having extreme difficulty understanding such a simple concept as "what it means to have control of your situation". Hence the answering for them.

I love smashboards. Don't you?

 

[1048576]

I honestly think that if you can see a hazard coming a mile away and you know it's going to happen on the stage and you can determine exactly how it works, it hardly counts as random any more.

I guess we're just split on what counts as 'a-mile-away'

Like, I would still be anti-item even if there were no capsules and they dropped from the top of the stage. How about you?

To me, it takes about 10 seconds to work your opponent into the position you want them, sometmes more. I'd like at least that much time (more to account for exceptional circumstances) in advance to know exactly what the hazards are going to be.

Certainly it takes more than 2 seconds, so something like Yoshi's Island or Pictochat is blatantly unfair, although I guess the prevailing argument for Yoshi's Island is that the hazard never actually affects the outcome, which I'm not sold on. I'm not too familiar with Norfair. How much warning do you get before you get owned by the lava plumes?

 

[AlphaZealot]

The ability to adapt quickly to uncertain situations is one of the key qualities in being a good smash player.

I 100% agree with this statement. Green Greens and Norfair are staple tests of the adaptive quality a Smasher should have.

 

[BSP]

Is green greens really that bad for Mk ?

AFAIK only against GaW because he has near unapproachable camping on either edge. However, MK could get close to the same if he sets up on the edge. The only real disadvantage for MK is the pretty low ceiling, so he could die a bit earlier.

Norfair's lava definitely counts as a "mile-a-way' if you ask me. Honestly, if you get owned by the lava plumes, you were

a) In a bad position in the first place, that resulted from either your actions or the opponents actions, so not random
b)Just not paying attention, because they are really obvious to see coming. Anyone playing should be able to react that fast. Plus, that camera tells you when it's coming from the side, and you can see all the laval in the background.

 

[MK26]

To me, it takes about 10 seconds to work your opponent into the position you want them, sometmes more. I'd like at least that much time (more to account for exceptional circumstances) in advance to know exactly what the hazards are going to be.

Certainly it takes more than 2 seconds, so something like Yoshi's Island or Pictochat is blatantly unfair, although I guess the prevailing argument for Yoshi's Island is that the hazard never actually affects the outcome, which I'm not sold on. I'm not too familiar with Norfair. How much warning do you get before you get owned by the lava plumes?

10 seconds, give or take, for the side walls. The rest of the hazards are 3 to 5 seconds if you know what to look for.

(and no promises, but if what I'm seeing when I look at Norfair is true, it just might be possible to predict hazards up to 45 seconds at a time )

 

[Ripple]

To me, it takes about 10 seconds to work your opponent into the position you want them, sometmes more. I'd like at least that much time (more to account for exceptional circumstances) in advance to know exactly what the hazards are going to be.

Certainly it takes more than 2 seconds, so something like Yoshi's Island or Pictochat is blatantly unfair, although I guess the prevailing argument for Yoshi's Island is that the hazard never actually affects the outcome, which I'm not sold on. I'm not too familiar with Norfair. How much warning do you get before you get owned by the lava plumes?

you want to know if a hazard is going to appear 10 seconds in advance? that's ridiculous!!!

you have just as much time as your opponent to move away from the hazard as they do to force you into the hazard.

2 seconds is plenty of time


I wouldn't be surprised if people started calling snake a broken stage hazard because he can explode randomly if you hit him without 10 seconds warning

AFAIK only against GaW because he has near unapproachable camping on either edge. However, MK could get close to the same if he sets up on the edge. The only real disadvantage for MK is the pretty low ceiling, so he could die a bit earlier.

Norfair's lava definitely counts as a "mile-a-way' if you ask me.

DK can approach a camping G&W oddly enough

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I 100% agree with this statement. Green Greens and Norfair are staple tests of the adaptive quality a Smasher should have.

YES. THANK YOU.

Guys, AZ is right here. You've all gotten super lazy. Why do I play casuals with Green Greens, Norfair, Port Town, and Jungle Japes on? Well, first of all I like the first three a lot. Second of all, I consider it a necessary skill for a smasher to have to be able to figure out a stage or two.

AFAIK only against GaW because he has near unapproachable camping on either edge. However, MK could get close to the same if he sets up on the edge. The only real disadvantage for MK is the pretty low ceiling, so he could die a bit earlier.

Norfair's lava definitely counts as a "mile-a-way' if you ask me. Honestly, if you get owned by the lava plumes, you were

a) In a bad position in the first place, that resulted from either your actions or the opponents actions, so not random
b)Just not paying attention, because they are really obvious to see coming. Anyone playing should be able to react that fast. Plus, that camera tells you when it's coming from the side, and you can see all the laval in the background.

Yeah, this. Also, GG is bad for MK for any heavy with a good vertical killer who can camp the middle (especially snake, and AFAIK DDD to an extent).

 

[BSP]

Well, GG would be a double edged sword then. If you can take the lead from MK, you're good. If he pulls ahead, you're going uphill.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

AFAIK only against GaW because he has near unapproachable camping on either edge. However, MK could get close to the same if he sets up on the edge. The only real disadvantage for MK is the pretty low ceiling, so he could die a bit earlier.

with a 35 ledge limit does planking really set MK to a disadvantage? Wouldn't mK be just as good planking on this stage as GW?

 

[Raziek]

Is green greens really that bad for Mk ?

Even if it isn't, it still means Mk gets to ban FD AND a second stage he doesn't like, be it Halberd, Greens, or a personal distaste.

Which is, again, why MK breaks the counter-picking system. Adding additional bans only makes him better.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Give him no bans. And no counterpicks. And let his opponent choose whatever stage he wants to on every round. This is what I'm proposing. Suddenly, MK is removed from the system he breaks, making it work again. :D

 

[BSP]

with a 35 ledge limit does planking really set MK to a disadvantage? Wouldn't mK be just as good planking on this stage as GW?

You mean if GaW is planking? I don't know all the details of his planking, but I just heard that he's really hard to approach on the side of GGs (I could see why on paper, but I've never really taken GaWs there so...)

And I would think MK would be good planking at GG too. Again, IDK GaW details, you'd be better off asking someone else whether or not MK is just as good. I would guess yes though.

 

[MarKO X]

Give him no bans. And no counterpicks. And let his opponent choose whatever stage he wants to on every round. This is what I'm proposing. Suddenly, MK is removed from the system he breaks, making it work again. :D

you know, uve been saying this for months.
and i found an interesting problem with it...

loser picks stage, winner picks character, loser picks character.
at the point where the winner picks a character, he'd be silly to stay MK if the stage is Hyrule (where the obviously pick Sonic or Fox).

unless that's the function you want it to take.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Even if it isn't, it still means Mk gets to ban FD AND a second stage he doesn't like, be it Halberd, Greens, or a personal distaste.

Which is, again, why MK breaks the counter-picking system. Adding additional bans only makes him better.

This whole breaking the CP system is pretty over stated IMO for the simple fact that it is equal hard to CP snake yet no one seems to mind this fact. Ok he bans FD that only really matters against Diddy, IC and Falco it's not as though an inclusion of a second ban is going to sudenly make you able to CP him. Especially not with the counter stage list. The fact that there's a chance he can go to either Delfino or Halberd as a starter is a bit more ridiculous then MK being able to ban two stages.

 

[Raziek]

You're off your rocker if you think Snake is just as hard as MK to cp. Maybe in your ruleset, but Snake actually has bad stages and matchups.

 

[MarKO X]

my guess is the idea that Snake (arguably) has character CPs... so it's not that serious.
Also, assuming he has character CPs, you would think that those characters might do better than Snake on certain stages...

i'm just sayin.

You're off your rocker if you think Snake is just as hard as MK to cp. Maybe in your ruleset, but Snake actually has bad stages and matchups.

amazing unity is amazing.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This whole breaking the CP system is pretty over stated IMO for the simple fact that it is equal hard to CP snake yet no one seems to mind this fact. Ok he bans FD that only really matters against Diddy, IC and Falco it's not as though an inclusion of a second ban is going to sudenly make you able to CP him. Especially not with the counter stage list. The fact that there's a chance he can go to either Delfino or Halberd as a starter is a bit more ridiculous then MK being able to ban two stages.

Hmm...
-Rainbow Cruise
-Norfair
-Brinstar
-PS2?

Seem pretty bad for him. Especially RC seeing as it's a playground for guys like MK and DDD which give him headaches. It's hilarious to even think that.

 

[Kewkky]

Hey, Snake is pretty ******** on brinstar, unless the opponent is an aerial-oriented one. His explosives' hitboxes increase due to the hittable hazards, and he keeps a lot of his moves fresh. The low ceiling makes for some crazy utilt action, and close sides bring crazy ftilt action. And since the breakable areas have hitlag, his hitboxes are active for longer, making his utilt pretty **** nice when he's close to some breakable area.

Geez... PS2's gonna be horrible. Slippery ground (ice), moving floors (electric), a change in the game's physics (wind)... The only "normal" stage there is the one with the floor hump, and even that's pretty bad since it encourages camping even more...


I can't wait to see Ally vs ADHD on PS2.

 

[WindMajor]

Agreed. I always thought PS2 caused too much interference with the regular flow of the game to be considered legal. I'm already learning the stage, but I'm not liking it. :/

 

[Kitamerby]

Green Greens is a HORRIBLE stage for one reason and one reason only: EXPLODING APPLES. Completely random with the ability to KO you for simply touching them, and there have been MANY, MANY matches lost to those ****ing exploding apples. That is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE aspect for any stage and must not be allowed in competitive play.

 

[Ussi]

Green Greens is a HORRIBLE stage for one reason and one reason only: EXPLODING APPLES. Completely random with the ability to KO you for simply touching them, and there have been MANY, MANY matches lost to those ****ing exploding apples. That is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE aspect for any stage and must not be allowed in competitive play.

Seriously... +1

 

[adumbrodeus]

Green Greens is a HORRIBLE stage for one reason and one reason only: EXPLODING APPLES. Completely random with the ability to KO you for simply touching them, and there have been MANY, MANY matches lost to those ****ing exploding apples. That is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE aspect for any stage and must not be allowed in competitive play.

They can only explode on the first bounce IIRC.

 

[MK26]

In all honesty, I've probably played on Green Greens (in a casual setting notwithstanding) more times than most of you have thought "Green Greens"...and I have never seen an exploding apple. Ever. Everybody says "oh, i think i remember seeing an exploding apple that one time", but it's nothing but an urban myth to me at the moment.

I really want somebody to prove me wrong, though. I want to see an apple explode.

 

[Judo777]

um i take snakes to PS2 and norfair. Also if i was an aerial char id go RC in a heart beat. Japes is also pretty bad for snake and picto aint great. I see no problems with cping snake.

 

[Raziek]

.....the apples can explode? I've played that stage a good deal, I've never seen THAT happen.

 

[Jack Kieser]

In all honesty, I've probably played on Green Greens (in a casual setting notwithstanding) more times than most of you have thought "Green Greens"...and I have never seen an exploding apple. Ever. Everybody says "oh, i think i remember seeing an exploding apple that one time", but it's nothing but an urban myth to me at the moment.

I really want somebody to prove me wrong, though. I want to see an apple explode.

.....the apples can explode? I've played that stage a good deal, I've never seen THAT happen.

Did they even explode in Melee? Granted, I rarely wanted to go to Green Greens (just didn't like it that much, not really a competitive reason), but I still don't remember too many exploding apples then, either.

 

[Orion*]

Did they even explode in Melee? Granted, I rarely wanted to go to Green Greens (just didn't like it that much, not really a competitive reason), but I still don't remember too many exploding apples then, either.

LOL like you ever have a "competitive" reason

 

[Asakura cR]

In all honesty, I've probably played on Green Greens (in a casual setting notwithstanding) more times than most of you have thought "Green Greens"...and I have never seen an exploding apple. Ever. Everybody says "oh, i think i remember seeing an exploding apple that one time", but it's nothing but an urban myth to me at the moment.

I really want somebody to prove me wrong, though. I want to see an apple explode.

I'm pretty sure someone posted a video somewhere in here in a doubles match where they won because an apple exploded and killed the enemy. Not sure where it is though.

 

[Jack Kieser]

LOL like you ever have a "competitive" reason

Have you ever played me in a tournament? No? Then quiet you. That's enough of your trolling.

 

[MarKO X]

You know, at first, I'm thinking to myself: lol @ kita trolling people about exploding apples.
Then I remembered that chansey eggs can explode.
If something so tranquil can explode, then hell, so can apples, right?
Then my mind tricked itself into believing that an apple can explode.
Because I play with items quite a bit. And if it can explode, then I've experienced it.

And then I remembered... yeah, the apples can explode.
So I decided to youtube it and see if this has happened to anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjeq61M286U

Spoiler

April Fools Much?

 

[Ussi]

If people can't really find an exploding apple... I'll try to see if I didn't delete it off my replays

 

[Orion*]

Have you ever played me in a tournament? No? Then quiet you. That's enough of your trolling.

i generally dont go to scrub tournaments with items on. who knows though, if im in your area and im not hittin up a girl, maybe ill just swing by and win everything for some cash.

edit: actually **** it ill just bring the girls with me rofl

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

.....the apples can explode? I've played that stage a good deal, I've never seen THAT happen.

In all honesty, I've probably played on Green Greens (in a casual setting notwithstanding) more times than most of you have thought "Green Greens"...and I have never seen an exploding apple. Ever. Everybody says "oh, i think i remember seeing an exploding apple that one time", but it's nothing but an urban myth to me at the moment.

I really want somebody to prove me wrong, though. I want to see an apple explode.

Pretty much this, TBH. Me and my friends play with a selection of stages on random; GG is one of them. I play that stage a lot and have never seen an apple explode on it.

Also,

is still a good idea from what I'm seeing.