-Ran
Smash Master
The changes that are being made today, and the methods that are being created for the unity of TOs will be far reaching in the future.
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
That ledge grab limit is rather silly to place on every character outside of Meta Knight, and even then, were there not discussions as to why the LGL is poor?There is a Ledge Grab Limit of 35 for Meta Knight and 50 for all other characters. If a game goes to time and one player goes over the Ledge Grab Limit for their character, they will automatically lose the game. If both players exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then this rule is ignored.
Nope.We should give those LGLs a good discussion. Does anyone outside of MK really need it?
Yo guys, the moral of ruleset 1.2 is;
Its only illegal if you get caught.
You can still deliberately forfeit, underperform, split money and manipulate brackets all you want, just dont be stupid and tell people about it.
I have successfully negated the blatant stupidity from your posts.East Coast thinking here
It's not about what they do with the money, but, because the money distribution is already going to be "set" before the game even starts, the players are less likely to give it their all resulting in stupid winner, loser, and grand finals when they should be really hyped. If that were to become common, people would *probably* be less interested in going to tournaments, resulting is less competition, resulting in less money, leading to the dying of the game (inb4slipperyslope).Man I'm pretty mad at this pathetic knee-jerk ruleset.
What right do you guys think you have to tell people what to do with their money they won. I dont even know how many times I shared the prizes from tournaments I won with my brother placing in second. Is that illegal? No TO can ever be allowed to judge me on what they THINK my motives are because you will usually be wrong, and a complete ****head.
Where do you guys draw the line. Oh that right, wherever you feel like with no regards to circumstances. At the end of the day all this does is further push the 'only illegal if you get caught' idea.
I wonder how many people who pushed for this rule, are those who never place in the money. You're all so quick to judge other people's motives when they have something you want, arent you.
That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else. In other words, they're only hurting themselves and they're okay with that.@browny: I are you also in support of the legalization of rigging professional sports games, bribing politicians, and under the table deals, because its their money and they have every right to do whatever they want with it?
I bet you are also opposed to murder being illegal because "its only illegal if you get caught"
M2K, Anti, and ADHD's deal affected everyone else in the tournament, and if smash had a larger following like proffesional sports it would have affected others outside of the tournament due to side bets.That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else.
Because people are misinformed, the player base is exceedingly young, and our top players collude with each other.ITT: People are beginning to realise the futility of competitive brawl
Do you ever wonder why brawl is cited as a bad competitive game, and it happens to be plagued by a whole lot of anti-competitive behaviour?
It changed the tournament from a competition to an agreement between 3 players to hussle entry fee from all other players.How did it have an effect on anyone else? It saved them time when M2K forfeited? Yeah, I think that's a good thing. They already took everybody else's money so there's no other effect it had on them.
Wait what? How does it not affect others? How many Grand Finals ended up as a joke due to splitting?That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else. In other words, they're only hurting themselves and they're okay with that.
CJ, you can just as easily slippery slope in the other direction. Only difference is that this has been going on for a long time and it hasn't started happening yet.
It might have to do something to do with negative nancy's such as yourself who also endorse the anti-competitive behavior as well.ITT: People are beginning to realise the futility of competitive brawl
Do you ever wonder why brawl is cited as a bad competitive game, and it happens to be plagued by a whole lot of anti-competitive behaviour?
No attempt at refuting, just a no?That's... no.
Boxer's are also ranked based upon their wins and losses and it affects whom they fight in the future as well.How did it have an effect on anyone else? It saved them time when M2K forfeited? Yeah, I think that's a good thing. They already took everybody else's money so there's no other effect it had on them.
Boxers have sponsors they effect. And anyway, just look at professional wrestling. That ****'s still big.
Covered this with the above.Wrestling is a professional sport none-the-less. Brawl doesn't even have professionals to begin with.
Tournament's are not there for enjoyment, they are there for competition. To pit one's skill against the other's.Grand finals being a joke has nothing to do with anything other than the people playing in it. They should be allowed to do what they want. If you don't like it, oh well. Most people don't like MK, but tournaments aren't made around everybody's enjoyment.
But why do they collude with each other, THATS the issue.M2K, Anti, and ADHD's deal affected everyone else in the tournament, and if smash had a larger following like proffesional sports it would have affected others outside of the tournament due to side bets.
What they did is no different (other than the scale it was done on) than two boxers agreeing to decide who wins or who loses.
Because people are misinformed, the player base is exceedingly young, and our top players collude with each other.
None of those are faults of the game, but are faults of the community.
That was for sunshade, read the edit.[/quote
Just did and its a public forum, its open ground for anyone to reply.
You're right, they get seeded, and there have been occurrences where pools were manipulated to ensure a higher or lower seeding to avoid playing against people whom which they were friends.So these Brawl players are not ranked based on points. That points invalid. That's a reason for BOXING to be against rigging. No such occurrence happens here.
That's a reason for BRAWL to be against rigging as well.
You just said it yourself.How does it mislead those who played? Dabuz didn't get screwed. He played M2K (who was apparently nearly forced to play by keitaro) and lost. He got screwed by the coaching, maybe, but that's something tangible.
Dabuz would have gotten a bye, and would have gotten to move on in the bracket.
M2K should not have been playing, and the fact Keitaro pretty much forced him to play makes it even worse.
That is manipulating the bracket, because you are changing who they are facing within the bracket and when.
M2K shouldn't have been in the tournament, Dabuz should have moved on.
He was mislead, and was directly affected.
So Brawl does not get sponsored, nor does it gain major publicity, it still does not condone such behavior at all because it still creates image of top player's arranging their matches for guaranteed money.
As I said, that may not be the intention of it, but that is the image it creates and as Browny said, it is surely a part of why the Smash community is seen as a joke.
When you say wrestling do you mean show wrestling or sport wrestling? In show wrestling collusion is not illegal because it is not a sport. If you mean the second it is treated the same as collusion in boxing and is punished the same way. You are manipulating two different things which happen to look the same and have the same name.That was for sunshade, read the edit.
So these Brawl players are not ranked based on points. That points invalid. That's a reason for BOXING to be against rigging. No such occurrence happens here.
How does it mislead those who played? Dabuz didn't get screwed. He played M2K (who was apparently nearly forced to play by keitaro) and lost. He got screwed by the coaching, maybe, but that's something tangible.
Why the collude is not the issue. The issue is that the players are soiling the competitive environment and are doing something the vast majority of people find to be unethical and immoral.But why do they collude with each other, THATS the issue.
Why on earth do you think it seems to be brawl unique? Do you ever hear of this bracket manipulation garbage happening so often at big SF tournaments? or pretty much any other major competitive game. Its because playing for the sake of playing isnt fun anymore. There are people out there who only care about money, and the simple fact that it is so stupidly easy for them to abuse Brawl to force themselves to place higher, shows a lot about how competitive this game is.
btw, it doesnt happen in sports/other things because its extremely hard to do, obvious if you do it, and people actually care about being the best at what they do.
I hate how the bbr/bbr-rc keeps trying to be in control of everything. If someone does get a redcard, the t.o can still let them go to their tournies. Some probably don't care about it. Who is some online group to say/make rules for us?
Unity Ruleset said:All events using the Unity Ruleset must abide by the player blacklist formed by the Infraction System.
Any host not using the Unity Ruleset in its entirety is still welcome to use the player blacklist if they choose.
No they don't. What if I hold a tournament using the unity ruleset and allow redcard players? Nothing any one can do accept y'all would maybe blacklist me. But a blacklist for that reason won't stop people from going to a tournament.All they are controlling is things under their ruleset. The only ones that must abide are people using the Unity Ruleset in their tournaments.
That would be a variant of the Unity Ruleset that you are running then, not the ruleset itself, which means that the blacklist doesn't have to apply. If it's not considered a variant, well you could just make a minor change to single rule to make it a variant. Change the infinite rule from 300% to 299% and bam, it's not the same ruleset.No they don't. What if I hold a tournament using the unity ruleset and allow redcard players?
Blacklisted members wouldn't be able to participate in the tournament, but they might be let in the venue. However, if I'm not mistaken, TOs have the right to admission, which means that if they really felt like it, if they saw a black listed member enter the venue, the TO could formally eject him from the venue, or call the cops to force him out if necessary.But a blacklist for that reason won't stop people from going to a tournament.
alright well if you're gonna make such a bold statement like this, then you better be able to back it up with some names. Because if this is targeted at anti, then you're wrong and just salty. I rolled up to pound V from canada, it was my first international, I played a lot of friendlies with anti, he gave me advice, then went and smoke some ganja with some other people, introducing me to other smashers. He had no idea who I was, but was nice. Sounds like a good kid to me yo. Ally is another top player, who's helped me tons, played a lot of friendlies and has been nice to me. Sure, a lot of the top players hang together at tournaments, thats expected. I doubt they seed for their own personal gain, they seed because they have a lot of smash knowledge. You sound awfully salty. The only top level player who has denied me from friendlies was m2k, and i can even understand that. Shugo played friendlies with me, among tons of other players, I don't know who you're talking about, but maybe its YOU, not the top players.. If top players are being rude to you or acting elitist, it's probably because you're treating them like a top player, not a person.. If you treat them like a normal person and are actually interested in hanging out with THEM cause they're a cool person, not just cause they're good at smash, I doubt they will ignore you, be rude, or deny friendlies.The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?
Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.
Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.
Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.
(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)
...That's literally everything. Murder is only illegal if you get caught. Drugs are only illegal if you get caught. Killing someone, ****** the corpse, and then using their skull as a crack pipe is only illegal if you get caught.Yo guys, the moral of ruleset 1.2 is;
Its only illegal if you get caught.
But you know what? This is one of those cases where if it doesn't seem like it's happening, it doesn't really matter as much.You can still deliberately forfeit, underperform, split money and manipulate brackets all you want, just dont be stupid and tell people about it.
You know, this was a perfect example of why splitting is bull****. Imagine for a second that M2K was the only player between him, anti, and ally, that could've possibly beaten dabuz. Now imagine if him, anti, and ally were splitting. M2K taking a dive in winners would've meant that overall, the group still gets more money!Man I'm pretty mad at this pathetic knee-jerk ruleset.
What right do you guys think you have to tell people what to do with their money they won. I dont even know how many times I shared the prizes from tournaments I won with my brother placing in second. Is that illegal? No TO can ever be allowed to judge me on what they THINK my motives are because you will usually be wrong, and a complete ****head.
God dammit you are a selfish moron.Where do you guys draw the line. Oh that right, wherever you feel like with no regards to circumstances. At the end of the day all this does is further push the 'only illegal if you get caught' idea.
I wonder how many people who pushed for this rule, are those who never place in the money. You're all so quick to judge other people's motives when they have something you want, arent you.
Because people are cheating. They are manipulating the bracket in a tournament; a tournament with fairly massive cash prizes.honestly yellow cards?
this isnt soccer
whoever is in charge of this is an idiot.
they are at the top. no one is beating them anyways. if no one is beating them, it doesn't affect anyone. if you think it does, your stupid.
because people cant be "entertained" ?
lmao i swear some of you guys are too old and need to leave the game to kids.
these old people are turning video games into jokes.
Is this even remotely true? If so, it's hilarious.The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?
Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.
Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.
Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.
(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)
Really? There are like 100 people who think this, I guess, because I'm pretty loud and somewhat opinionated. I have a few peeves, which are people who can't see beyond themselves, blatant dishonesty, and elitism, two of three of those which lead to my issue in the PM thread. I already had a chat with MonkUnit and I think we're cool now.Supermodel hasn't exactly come across to me as the most polite person from his posts in the Project M thread...
It's pretty true, although it isn't always true. A few bad apples, etc. Most of us already know who they are, and I stand by what I said: we'd be better off if they stayed home. Yellow Cards in at least two of these cases didn't go far enough. I've spoken online with at least one prolific TO from a pretty good region who considered placing a ban on at least one of these players specifically before the Yellow Card decision last night, and he's right.Is this even remotely true? If so, it's hilarious.
Also, europe kinda... isn't like this at all. Like, if I want friendlies with Staco, or Orion, or Mr. R, I can usually play a few matches with them. Hell, at Dogusch I basically went up to the TV where Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were playing (loser out) and asked to join, and they had no problem with it as far as I could see. (Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were three of the better players at the tournament)
this post is beautifulThe amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?
Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.
Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.
Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.
(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)
Fair warning, it helps that you haven't mentioned the stuff I take issue with offlineOr, like Flayl, who I actually met recently and is a super nice guy.
speak for yourself kiddo, i've met my fair share of pro peoples, some which you mentioned, which all have been pretty negative experiences. Cept for the Ohioan/Indiana people who are mad chill.alright well if you're gonna make such a bold statement like this, then you better be able to back it up with some names. Because if this is targeted at anti, then you're wrong and just salty. I rolled up to pound V from canada, it was my first international, I played a lot of friendlies with anti, he gave me advice, then went and smoke some ganja with some other people, introducing me to other smashers. He had no idea who I was, but was nice. Sounds like a good kid to me yo. Ally is another top player, who's helped me tons, played a lot of friendlies and has been nice to me. Sure, a lot of the top players hang together at tournaments, thats expected. I doubt they seed for their own personal gain, they seed because they have a lot of smash knowledge. You sound awfully salty. The only top level player who has denied me from friendlies was m2k, and i can even understand that. Shugo played friendlies with me, among tons of other players, I don't know who you're talking about, but maybe its YOU, not the top players.. If top players are being rude to you or acting elitist, it's probably because you're treating them like a top player, not a person.. If you treat them like a normal person and are actually interested in hanging out with THEM cause they're a cool person, not just cause they're good at smash, I doubt they will ignore you, be rude, or deny friendlies.