The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[-Ran]

The changes that are being made today, and the methods that are being created for the unity of TOs will be far reaching in the future.

 

[ぱみゅ]

After reading well, I find the Conduct rules not only doable and enforceable, but some of them are NECESSARY.

This is a nice update actually, I hope you guys can make more good changes in a near future.

 

[ShadowLink84]

There is a Ledge Grab Limit of 35 for Meta Knight and 50 for all other characters. If a game goes to time and one player goes over the Ledge Grab Limit for their character, they will automatically lose the game. If both players exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then this rule is ignored.

That ledge grab limit is rather silly to place on every character outside of Meta Knight, and even then, were there not discussions as to why the LGL is poor?

By the way I like the new addition regarding infractions, while I do not think it will stop splitting, it will show that it is frowned upon since it can be considered as bracket manipulation even if not intended to be that way.

 

[John12346]

We should give those LGLs a good discussion. Does anyone outside of MK really need it?

 

[Browny]

Yo guys, the moral of ruleset 1.2 is;

Its only illegal if you get caught.

You can still deliberately forfeit, underperform, split money and manipulate brackets all you want, just dont be stupid and tell people about it.

 

[Browny]

Man I'm pretty mad at this pathetic knee-jerk ruleset.

What right do you guys think you have to tell people what to do with their money they won. I dont even know how many times I shared the prizes from tournaments I won with my brother placing in second. Is that illegal? No TO can ever be allowed to judge me on what they THINK my motives are because you will usually be wrong, and a complete ****head.

Where do you guys draw the line. Oh that right, wherever you feel like with no regards to circumstances. At the end of the day all this does is further push the 'only illegal if you get caught' idea.

I wonder how many people who pushed for this rule, are those who never place in the money. You're all so quick to judge other people's motives when they have something you want, arent you.

 

[sunshade]

@browny: I are you also in support of the legalization of rigging professional sports games, bribing politicians, and under the table deals, because its their money and they have every right to do whatever they want with it?

I bet you are also opposed to murder being illegal because "its only illegal if you get caught"

 

[ShadowLink84]

We should give those LGLs a good discussion. Does anyone outside of MK really need it?

Nope.

Yo guys, the moral of ruleset 1.2 is;

Its only illegal if you get caught.

You can still deliberately forfeit, underperform, split money and manipulate brackets all you want, just dont be stupid and tell people about it.

East Coast thinking here

I have successfully negated the blatant stupidity from your posts.
You can thank me later.

Carry on folks.

 

[Reizilla]

But what about the integrity of the game?! How are we supposed to get sponsors without people dictating exactly what we do?!

 

[C.J.]

Man I'm pretty mad at this pathetic knee-jerk ruleset.

What right do you guys think you have to tell people what to do with their money they won. I dont even know how many times I shared the prizes from tournaments I won with my brother placing in second. Is that illegal? No TO can ever be allowed to judge me on what they THINK my motives are because you will usually be wrong, and a complete ****head.

Where do you guys draw the line. Oh that right, wherever you feel like with no regards to circumstances. At the end of the day all this does is further push the 'only illegal if you get caught' idea.

I wonder how many people who pushed for this rule, are those who never place in the money. You're all so quick to judge other people's motives when they have something you want, arent you.

It's not about what they do with the money, but, because the money distribution is already going to be "set" before the game even starts, the players are less likely to give it their all resulting in stupid winner, loser, and grand finals when they should be really hyped. If that were to become common, people would *probably* be less interested in going to tournaments, resulting is less competition, resulting in less money, leading to the dying of the game (inb4slipperyslope).

 

[Reizilla]

@browny: I are you also in support of the legalization of rigging professional sports games, bribing politicians, and under the table deals, because its their money and they have every right to do whatever they want with it?

I bet you are also opposed to murder being illegal because "its only illegal if you get caught"

That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else. In other words, they're only hurting themselves and they're okay with that.

CJ, you can just as easily slippery slope in the other direction. Only difference is that this has been going on for a long time and it hasn't started happening yet.

 

[Browny]

ITT: People are beginning to realise the futility of competitive brawl

Do you ever wonder why brawl is cited as a bad competitive game, and it happens to be plagued by a whole lot of anti-competitive behaviour?

 

[sunshade]

That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else.

M2K, Anti, and ADHD's deal affected everyone else in the tournament, and if smash had a larger following like proffesional sports it would have affected others outside of the tournament due to side bets.

What they did is no different (other than the scale it was done on) than two boxers agreeing to decide who wins or who loses.

ITT: People are beginning to realise the futility of competitive brawl

Do you ever wonder why brawl is cited as a bad competitive game, and it happens to be plagued by a whole lot of anti-competitive behaviour?

Because people are misinformed, the player base is exceedingly young, and our top players collude with each other.

None of those are faults of the game, but are faults of the community.

 

[Reizilla]

How did it have an effect on anyone else? It saved them time when M2K forfeited? Yeah, I think that's a good thing. They already took everybody else's money so there's no other effect it had on them.

Boxers have sponsors they effect. And anyway, just look at professional wrestling. That ****'s still big.

 

[sunshade]

How did it have an effect on anyone else? It saved them time when M2K forfeited? Yeah, I think that's a good thing. They already took everybody else's money so there's no other effect it had on them.

It changed the tournament from a competition to an agreement between 3 players to hussle entry fee from all other players.

@your edit: So you think that there would not be outrage, over proffesional boxers agreeing to take a fall?

Wrestling is closer to a stage performance than it is a sport.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That's completely irrelevant. All of those affect many other people than just the ones involved. The only ones that were effected by M2k, Anti and ADHD's deal were M2K, Anti and ADHD. That's it. They all agreed to it by their own free will. They all dealt only with what they earned themselves in no direct negative effect to anyone else. In other words, they're only hurting themselves and they're okay with that.

CJ, you can just as easily slippery slope in the other direction. Only difference is that this has been going on for a long time and it hasn't started happening yet.

Wait what? How does it not affect others? How many Grand Finals ended up as a joke due to splitting?
How about KTAR? Can we bring up the stupidity that occurred there?

You are trying to suggest that this does NOT have an impact upon others outside of those involved, when this is very much not the case.
Look at Jwong as well, it is the same issue.

This is the same for many sports, where the amount of money you earn is based around your success, and were taking falls are frowned upon heavily because it affects not only those involved, but those that they also have to face in the future.

Sure, the effects are not direct, but neither are the examples listed by John, they affect indirectly, it affects whom they are going to play, it affects their chances at winning as well.

ITT: People are beginning to realise the futility of competitive brawl

Do you ever wonder why brawl is cited as a bad competitive game, and it happens to be plagued by a whole lot of anti-competitive behaviour?

It might have to do something to do with negative nancy's such as yourself who also endorse the anti-competitive behavior as well.

It is very easy to say that the cookie tastes bad when you've already pissed on it.

 

[Reizilla]

That's... no.

Wrestling is a professional sport none-the-less. Brawl doesn't even have professionals to begin with.

Grand finals being a joke has nothing to do with anything other than the people playing in it. They should be allowed to do what they want. If you don't like it, oh well. Most people don't like MK, but tournaments aren't made around everybody's enjoyment.

 

[P.C. Jona]

honestly yellow cards?

this isnt soccer

whoever is in charge of this is an idiot.

they are at the top. no one is beating them anyways. if no one is beating them, it doesn't affect anyone. if you think it does, your stupid.

because people cant be "entertained" ?

lmao i swear some of you guys are too old and need to leave the game to kids.

these old people are turning video games into jokes.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That's... no.

No attempt at refuting, just a no?

How did it have an effect on anyone else? It saved them time when M2K forfeited? Yeah, I think that's a good thing. They already took everybody else's money so there's no other effect it had on them.

Boxers have sponsors they effect. And anyway, just look at professional wrestling. That ****'s still big.

Boxer's are also ranked based upon their wins and losses and it affects whom they fight in the future as well.

Obviously, splitting is not the same as taking a fall, but it can be seen that way and it can also be seen as bracket manipulation.
That you agree to play up to a certain point, then give up for guaranteed cash rather than take the risk for the guaranteed pot.

It misleads those who played, and it can hurt the chances of those who play. Dabuz got screwed because of that nonsense, you think he didn't get affected?

Professional wrestling? WWE and that nonsense is purely performance. It is not an actual sport. It is pure entertainment that pretty much just takes advantage of hype.

Damn edit makes me mad

Wrestling is a professional sport none-the-less. Brawl doesn't even have professionals to begin with.

Covered this with the above.

Grand finals being a joke has nothing to do with anything other than the people playing in it. They should be allowed to do what they want. If you don't like it, oh well. Most people don't like MK, but tournaments aren't made around everybody's enjoyment.

Tournament's are not there for enjoyment, they are there for competition. To pit one's skill against the other's.
Splitting in itself, may be done for good intentions; since hell there are many cases where the money is needed to get back home or for other important things; but the image it creates is that of the bracket being manipulated to ensure that those involved get money.

 

[Reizilla]

That was for sunshade, read the edit.

So these Brawl players are not ranked based on points. That points invalid. That's a reason for BOXING to be against rigging. No such occurrence happens here.

How does it mislead those who played? Dabuz didn't get screwed. He played M2K (who was apparently nearly forced to play by keitaro) and lost. He got screwed by the coaching, maybe, but that's something tangible.

 

[Browny]

M2K, Anti, and ADHD's deal affected everyone else in the tournament, and if smash had a larger following like proffesional sports it would have affected others outside of the tournament due to side bets.

What they did is no different (other than the scale it was done on) than two boxers agreeing to decide who wins or who loses.



Because people are misinformed, the player base is exceedingly young, and our top players collude with each other.

None of those are faults of the game, but are faults of the community.

But why do they collude with each other, THATS the issue.

Why on earth do you think it seems to be brawl unique? Do you ever hear of this bracket manipulation garbage happening so often at big SF tournaments? or pretty much any other major competitive game. Its because playing for the sake of playing isnt fun anymore. There are people out there who only care about money, and the simple fact that it is so stupidly easy for them to abuse Brawl to force themselves to place higher, shows a lot about how competitive this game is.

btw, it doesnt happen in sports/other things because its extremely hard to do, obvious if you do it, and people actually care about being the best at what they do.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That was for sunshade, read the edit.[/quote
Just did and its a public forum, its open ground for anyone to reply.

So these Brawl players are not ranked based on points. That points invalid. That's a reason for BOXING to be against rigging. No such occurrence happens here.

You're right, they get seeded, and there have been occurrences where pools were manipulated to ensure a higher or lower seeding to avoid playing against people whom which they were friends.

That's a reason for BRAWL to be against rigging as well.

How does it mislead those who played? Dabuz didn't get screwed. He played M2K (who was apparently nearly forced to play by keitaro) and lost. He got screwed by the coaching, maybe, but that's something tangible.

You just said it yourself.
Dabuz would have gotten a bye, and would have gotten to move on in the bracket.
M2K should not have been playing, and the fact Keitaro pretty much forced him to play makes it even worse.
That is manipulating the bracket, because you are changing who they are facing within the bracket and when.
M2K shouldn't have been in the tournament, Dabuz should have moved on.

He was mislead, and was directly affected.

So Brawl does not get sponsored, nor does it gain major publicity, it still does not condone such behavior at all because it still creates image of top player's arranging their matches for guaranteed money.
As I said, that may not be the intention of it, but that is the image it creates and as Browny said, it is surely a part of why the Smash community is seen as a joke.

 

[Reizilla]

That much I can agree with. If someone intentionally forfeits out of winner's, I've always forfeited them out of loser's as well, as it insures that they only do so when they have no motivation to move forward in tournament. That much is not bad. Pools, there are so many arbitrary ways to get around this rule, it doesn't need to be an argument, save for intentional forfeit, which I just stated above.

 

[sunshade]

That was for sunshade, read the edit.

So these Brawl players are not ranked based on points. That points invalid. That's a reason for BOXING to be against rigging. No such occurrence happens here.

How does it mislead those who played? Dabuz didn't get screwed. He played M2K (who was apparently nearly forced to play by keitaro) and lost. He got screwed by the coaching, maybe, but that's something tangible.

When you say wrestling do you mean show wrestling or sport wrestling? In show wrestling collusion is not illegal because it is not a sport. If you mean the second it is treated the same as collusion in boxing and is punished the same way. You are manipulating two different things which happen to look the same and have the same name.

Regardless, collusion is not acceptable if we want brawl to be played, and viewed as a competitive game. While M2k, Anti, and ADHD's cheating may not have directly affected players in a large way it affects players in subtle ways.

It lets newcomers know that if they enter our tournament they won't have exciting matches because the top players are all working together to take the money of the entrants.

It caused the bracket to be changed from what it would be assuming every player gave there all and gave the players colluding more control over who they fought. For example lets say should the following 3 players (M2K, Anti, and Player A) fought each other. The general match-ups would go as follows. M2K can beat Anti, Anti can beat Player A and Player A can beat M2K. If M2K is fighting Anti and the winner will go on to fight Player A and M2k is colluding with Anti then the two players will be able to manipulate the bracket so that Anti will play Player A (instead of M2k.

There are also side bets which can easily be rigged.

But why do they collude with each other, THATS the issue.

Why on earth do you think it seems to be brawl unique? Do you ever hear of this bracket manipulation garbage happening so often at big SF tournaments? or pretty much any other major competitive game. Its because playing for the sake of playing isnt fun anymore. There are people out there who only care about money, and the simple fact that it is so stupidly easy for them to abuse Brawl to force themselves to place higher, shows a lot about how competitive this game is.

btw, it doesnt happen in sports/other things because its extremely hard to do, obvious if you do it, and people actually care about being the best at what they do.

Why the collude is not the issue. The issue is that the players are soiling the competitive environment and are doing something the vast majority of people find to be unethical and immoral.

We don't frequently see collusion in other games/sports because it is activly punished and looked down upon else where. Boxers, street fighter players, etc are all punished for colluding, unlike smashers who are held in high esteem for it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

This thread has lost meaning to me.

 

[Reizilla]

Justin Wong is just about the only player to ever be punished for "colluding" in which there was absolutely no evidence, other than he lost to someone he should've beaten normally, which happens all the time. Don't bring up that argument. Splitting happens just as much in SF as it does in Brawl. If anything this is a bigger problem there because there is always a lot of drama in their bracket making, even at EVO.

As far as sports, that business is completely funded off of entertainment value. They don't rig because they can't, because people would know and they would lose so much money because they make their money off of their fans and sponsers. Those are the people that pay them. If rigging could make them more money without losing the fanbase, you would see it happen. Then it would be profit vs. pride, like it is in Brawl where the people that pay M2K and Anti and ADHD are the pot-fillers entering the tournament. The ones paying to play, not paying to see good matches, not paying for M2K to try his hardest, only paying to enter the tournament. Once their money goes in, it's in the winners' hands and of their choice to do with what they please.

 

[Suspect]

I hate how the bbr/bbr-rc keeps trying to be in control of everything. If someone does get a redcard, the t.o can still let them go to their tournies. Some probably don't care about it. Who is some online group to say/make rules for us?

 

[Reizilla]

I guess I will address the pools thing, so look no further than football (American). Every year, teams sandbag games near the end of the season (pools) to stay sharp for the playoffs (bracket play). Some times this directly affects other teams making it (2009 Colts gave the Jets a nearly free win letting them in over the Texans.) Where is the backlash from that? Are they not a real professional organization? Football isn't wrestling, right?

If it's in their best interest, it will be done. You don't see rigging and such because it's not in people's best interest. That's the only real reason. "Not giving their all" is only bad if you try to make it to be. Only sheds negative light if you want it to.

 

[WindMajor]

I hate how the bbr/bbr-rc keeps trying to be in control of everything. If someone does get a redcard, the t.o can still let them go to their tournies. Some probably don't care about it. Who is some online group to say/make rules for us?

All events using the Unity Ruleset must abide by the player blacklist formed by the Infraction System.

Any host not using the Unity Ruleset in its entirety is still welcome to use the player blacklist if they choose.

All they are controlling is things under their ruleset. The only ones that must abide are people using the Unity Ruleset in their tournaments. They aren't forcing the ruleset upon any outsider TOs, which means that they have no power over your tournament. All they have is the power of influence.

 

[Suspect]

All they are controlling is things under their ruleset. The only ones that must abide are people using the Unity Ruleset in their tournaments.

No they don't. What if I hold a tournament using the unity ruleset and allow redcard players? Nothing any one can do accept y'all would maybe blacklist me. But a blacklist for that reason won't stop people from going to a tournament.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?

Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.

Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.

Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.

(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)

 

[Mike2]

*golf clap*

i enjoyed that

 

[WindMajor]

No they don't. What if I hold a tournament using the unity ruleset and allow redcard players?

That would be a variant of the Unity Ruleset that you are running then, not the ruleset itself, which means that the blacklist doesn't have to apply. If it's not considered a variant, well you could just make a minor change to single rule to make it a variant. Change the infinite rule from 300% to 299% and bam, it's not the same ruleset.

But a blacklist for that reason won't stop people from going to a tournament.

Blacklisted members wouldn't be able to participate in the tournament, but they might be let in the venue. However, if I'm not mistaken, TOs have the right to admission, which means that if they really felt like it, if they saw a black listed member enter the venue, the TO could formally eject him from the venue, or call the cops to force him out if necessary.

 

[-Googs]

The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?

Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.

Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.

Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.

(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)

alright well if you're gonna make such a bold statement like this, then you better be able to back it up with some names. Because if this is targeted at anti, then you're wrong and just salty. I rolled up to pound V from canada, it was my first international, I played a lot of friendlies with anti, he gave me advice, then went and smoke some ganja with some other people, introducing me to other smashers. He had no idea who I was, but was nice. Sounds like a good kid to me yo. Ally is another top player, who's helped me tons, played a lot of friendlies and has been nice to me. Sure, a lot of the top players hang together at tournaments, thats expected. I doubt they seed for their own personal gain, they seed because they have a lot of smash knowledge. You sound awfully salty. The only top level player who has denied me from friendlies was m2k, and i can even understand that. Shugo played friendlies with me, among tons of other players, I don't know who you're talking about, but maybe its YOU, not the top players.. If top players are being rude to you or acting elitist, it's probably because you're treating them like a top player, not a person.. If you treat them like a normal person and are actually interested in hanging out with THEM cause they're a cool person, not just cause they're good at smash, I doubt they will ignore you, be rude, or deny friendlies.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Supermodel hasn't exactly come across to me as the most polite person from his posts in the Project M thread...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yo guys, the moral of ruleset 1.2 is;

Its only illegal if you get caught.

...That's literally everything. Murder is only illegal if you get caught. Drugs are only illegal if you get caught. Killing someone, ****** the corpse, and then using their skull as a crack pipe is only illegal if you get caught.

You can still deliberately forfeit, underperform, split money and manipulate brackets all you want, just dont be stupid and tell people about it.

But you know what? This is one of those cases where if it doesn't seem like it's happening, it doesn't really matter as much.
If M2K takes a dive in the winners bracket to manipulate the bracket, and then BRAGS about it, then brawl loses clout as a competitive game, the results of the tournament are seen as skewed, and the whole community is pissed.
If M2K takes a dive in the winners bracket to manipulate the bracket, but does it so well that nobody can tell, none of the above happens. It's just a bizarre upset, nothing more.

Man I'm pretty mad at this pathetic knee-jerk ruleset.

What right do you guys think you have to tell people what to do with their money they won. I dont even know how many times I shared the prizes from tournaments I won with my brother placing in second. Is that illegal? No TO can ever be allowed to judge me on what they THINK my motives are because you will usually be wrong, and a complete ****head.

You know, this was a perfect example of why splitting is bull****. Imagine for a second that M2K was the only player between him, anti, and ally, that could've possibly beaten dabuz. Now imagine if him, anti, and ally were splitting. M2K taking a dive in winners would've meant that overall, the group still gets more money!

Apparently, this isn't what happened. But up to grand finals, losing a match in winners on purpose and then going on to continue in losers is incredibly unfair.

Where do you guys draw the line. Oh that right, wherever you feel like with no regards to circumstances. At the end of the day all this does is further push the 'only illegal if you get caught' idea.

I wonder how many people who pushed for this rule, are those who never place in the money. You're all so quick to judge other people's motives when they have something you want, arent you.

God dammit you are a selfish moron.

honestly yellow cards?

this isnt soccer

whoever is in charge of this is an idiot.

they are at the top. no one is beating them anyways. if no one is beating them, it doesn't affect anyone. if you think it does, your stupid.

because people cant be "entertained" ?

lmao i swear some of you guys are too old and need to leave the game to kids.

these old people are turning video games into jokes.

Because people are cheating. They are manipulating the bracket in a tournament; a tournament with fairly massive cash prizes.

The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?

Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.

Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.

Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.

(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)

Is this even remotely true? If so, it's hilarious.

Also, europe kinda... isn't like this at all. Like, if I want friendlies with Staco, or Orion, or Mr. R, I can usually play a few matches with them. Hell, at Dogusch I basically went up to the TV where Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were playing (loser out) and asked to join, and they had no problem with it as far as I could see. (Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were three of the better players at the tournament)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Supermodel hasn't exactly come across to me as the most polite person from his posts in the Project M thread...

Really? There are like 100 people who think this, I guess, because I'm pretty loud and somewhat opinionated. I have a few peeves, which are people who can't see beyond themselves, blatant dishonesty, and elitism, two of three of those which lead to my issue in the PM thread. I already had a chat with MonkUnit and I think we're cool now.

On a more personal note, I'm ludicrously nice and you can ask anyone who has ever met me in person (or even anyone from these boards who has talked to me on IRC or AIM, many of who didn't like me much before they did).

I'm a nice guy. I just really don't like people who aren't. There are plenty of people on these forums I disagree with all the damn time, like for instance, Orion, who I still really think is cool and I'd like to meet and hang out with, or Kid, who I would say similar things about. They say things I don't like, but they have a good attitude, so for the most part I keep things cool. Or, like Flayl, who I actually met recently and is a super nice guy. In the PM thread I was a little peeved at the blatant elitism, and I'm more than a bit peeved about this kind of elitism too.

Is this even remotely true? If so, it's hilarious.

Also, europe kinda... isn't like this at all. Like, if I want friendlies with Staco, or Orion, or Mr. R, I can usually play a few matches with them. Hell, at Dogusch I basically went up to the TV where Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were playing (loser out) and asked to join, and they had no problem with it as far as I could see. (Staco, Mr. R, and Leon were three of the better players at the tournament)

It's pretty true, although it isn't always true. A few bad apples, etc. Most of us already know who they are, and I stand by what I said: we'd be better off if they stayed home. Yellow Cards in at least two of these cases didn't go far enough. I've spoken online with at least one prolific TO from a pretty good region who considered placing a ban on at least one of these players specifically before the Yellow Card decision last night, and he's right.

And I haven't been to European smash events outside Portugal yet, so I can't comment here, but I will say I'm talking almost exclusively about US events.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?

Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.

Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.

Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.

(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)

this post is beautiful

 

[Flayl]

Or, like Flayl, who I actually met recently and is a super nice guy.

Fair warning, it helps that you haven't mentioned the stuff I take issue with offline

 

[Dark 3nergy]

alright well if you're gonna make such a bold statement like this, then you better be able to back it up with some names. Because if this is targeted at anti, then you're wrong and just salty. I rolled up to pound V from canada, it was my first international, I played a lot of friendlies with anti, he gave me advice, then went and smoke some ganja with some other people, introducing me to other smashers. He had no idea who I was, but was nice. Sounds like a good kid to me yo. Ally is another top player, who's helped me tons, played a lot of friendlies and has been nice to me. Sure, a lot of the top players hang together at tournaments, thats expected. I doubt they seed for their own personal gain, they seed because they have a lot of smash knowledge. You sound awfully salty. The only top level player who has denied me from friendlies was m2k, and i can even understand that. Shugo played friendlies with me, among tons of other players, I don't know who you're talking about, but maybe its YOU, not the top players.. If top players are being rude to you or acting elitist, it's probably because you're treating them like a top player, not a person.. If you treat them like a normal person and are actually interested in hanging out with THEM cause they're a cool person, not just cause they're good at smash, I doubt they will ignore you, be rude, or deny friendlies.

speak for yourself kiddo, i've met my fair share of pro peoples, some which you mentioned, which all have been pretty negative experiences. Cept for the Ohioan/Indiana people who are mad chill.

They deserve it definitely. Once you get outside your own little safety circle Googs, you'll begin to realize that this isnt about you and your experiences with these people. Its about how these players are slowing killing the community, taking away the fun aspect of the game whilst rolling a profit off of pot monsters without giving anything back.

No new blood or pot monsters means less attendance and less money pay out. So as long as they keep splitting, keep playing at 50%, the community as a whole suffers for it. No progress is made meta game wise, no one becomes inspired to become better. Its a vicious empty cycle that starts and begins with the pro players really. The weight is more so apon them to quit their shady behavior and play by the rules set forth. As long as they can continue to get away with what they're doing now, no one will win.

ROFL no one will want to because you can just get free winnings for sucking the other guys massive ****.