Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Speaking of ignoring results... Norfair and Green Greens. Both legal at MLG with next to no complaints. What is the BRC's thoughts on that?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The Unity Ruleset: Discussion
- Thread starter Unity Ruleset Committee
- Start date
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Personally, I like those 2 stages. However, in the BRC there are issues with their layouts. For Green Greens, the short blastzones and potentials for wall infinites, the apples (Which is more of a + than a - to me), and the bomb glitch are concerns.
For Norfair, they are worried that at MLG people that can air camp will be too powerful. I have heard that the stage crew has data on Norfair, which would be AMAZING!!! Please send me that info when you guys compile it all. It might help restart things.
But yeah, things don't look good for Norfair vote wise, but GG hasn't started on the vote yet.
For Norfair, they are worried that at MLG people that can air camp will be too powerful. I have heard that the stage crew has data on Norfair, which would be AMAZING!!! Please send me that info when you guys compile it all. It might help restart things.
But yeah, things don't look good for Norfair vote wise, but GG hasn't started on the vote yet.
Player-1
Smash Legend
wtf, you're kidding right BPC? I heard a TON of people complaining about those stages.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Complaints as in "OMG I lost this match because of the stage and not because I was legitimately outplayed" or as in "omg this stage is so gay I hate it!!!1"?
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Pretty funny that people worry about air camping, but don't really care about sharking under a stage for how ever long it takes for the acid to rise, only to continue to stay under the person and slowly tack on percent while virtually being able to remain unscathed the majority of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-19NssjjZQ And these two players are arguably on the same level of skill, you can make all the excuses as to why Ally lost that you want. The fact doesn't change that there was not very much that he could do with his same level of expertise as M2K.
But I guess that makes it a "fair" stage huh? Putting two players of equal skill against each other and having a result of a one sided blow out occur, all the makings of a legitimate stage.
RC is fine, it's static and more over it doesn't provide nearly the same kind of advantage as Brinstar. (I've already said why)
Granted RC is an amazing CP for MK it, doesn't compare to Brinstar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-19NssjjZQ And these two players are arguably on the same level of skill, you can make all the excuses as to why Ally lost that you want. The fact doesn't change that there was not very much that he could do with his same level of expertise as M2K.
But I guess that makes it a "fair" stage huh? Putting two players of equal skill against each other and having a result of a one sided blow out occur, all the makings of a legitimate stage.
RC is fine, it's static and more over it doesn't provide nearly the same kind of advantage as Brinstar. (I've already said why)
Granted RC is an amazing CP for MK it, doesn't compare to Brinstar
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Burden of proof does not work like that, stop pretending it does. It's a matter of policy and concensus.
To follow your train of thought, Brinstar has been proven guilty. There is a huge discussion about it going on. Considering we don't work with supermajorities, the discontent regarding both RC and Brinstar speaks for itself.
Life
Smash Hero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
I skimmed the above.
Whoever asserts something is the one that must prove it. Right now, the status quo on Brinstar is that it is _legal_. Burden of proof rests on those who want it banned. Kadaj's vid is the closest thing I've seen to it, but I'm not convinced. And besides, this discussion is pointless, right ESAM?
I skimmed the above.
Whoever asserts something is the one that must prove it. Right now, the status quo on Brinstar is that it is _legal_. Burden of proof rests on those who want it banned. Kadaj's vid is the closest thing I've seen to it, but I'm not convinced. And besides, this discussion is pointless, right ESAM?
Player-1
Smash Legend
Both, a complaint is a complaint.
With all this discussion about Brinstar, can someone tell me what's bad about YI:Melee for it to be banned? Note that the blastlines are not as small as initially thought (IIRC, it's around Brinstar's). It's extremely static too.
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
I'm confused on the "results" you're talking about.
John's statistics?
John or Vinnie's tournament? What tournament lol? I hope it's not just ONE tournament lol.
ErikG
Smash Ace
Snake is garbage on Brinstar.
MK26
Smash Master
That was simply M2K using a strategy that Ally didn't adapt to and thus couldn't counter - he camped while the lava was low and then, when it rose, he used it to cover what would normally be unsafe tornado approaches. With the lava covering the floor, Ally couldn't airdodge through the nado without getting popped back up again. Does being able to use a stage to your advantage mean it should be banned?
DRDN
Smash Master
isnt that why norfairs banned?
forgot my necessary
forgot my necessary
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Which is the same thing that happens on brinstar, minus the flares and added sharking with even less space to evade
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
It's not in The Netherlands, but it's nice you base your judgements of Wikipedia pages. You basically made your point worthless.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
I recommend that wikipage, it's pretty legit. Basic debate concepts like burden of proof are not too difficult to grasp.
Steam
Smash Hero
why should we change our rulesets to nerf MK EVEN MORE when we could just ban him?
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Except one matters, and the other doesn't.
Players *****ing about a stage being "boring" or "gay" has no bearing on, well, anything else. They don't like the stage. They can suck it up and deal with it because they are massive ****ies.
Players showing off broken tools on the stage has bearing, because it means that there's a broken strategy and that the stage may need to be banned. So... What is it on Norfair and Green Greens?
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Loooooooool XD I am very familiar with the concept of the burden of proof, get out please
John12346
Smash Master
Vinnie's one tournament, yes.
However, he did hold a few Uprises tournies before then, and I seem to recall MK doing well at each. However, my memory is quite hazy and I'm not even sure if Brinstar was banned then, so let's ignore that.
Vinnie's holding a massive regional with Brinstar banned on July 30. Let's see how that turns out, eh wot?
Player-1
Smash Legend
Maybe you should be more specific next time then
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
The games been out too long, MK isn't going to be banned, nor does he need to be
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Lava flares are a big deal Kadaj, that is the only thing I don't like about the stage.
Again, the lava actually forces fights. Discussion is still pointless though on Brinstar.
Again, the lava actually forces fights. Discussion is still pointless though on Brinstar.
DRDN
Smash Master
While I believe that's a major reason he won't be banned, that's the absolute worst reason
Its been this way for a while we don't feel like making a change
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
So the argument before was "The game hasn't been out enough yet, MK could prove to be not as bad.", and now that it's worse, the argument is "The game has been out too long."?
That's just stupid.
DRDN
Smash Master
Are you talking about brin or norfair
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
He isn't broken, what more is there to say? o_0
It's obvious he is the best, no more than it being obvious that Yun in the best in SSF4AE With little no mus that are bad for him.
That doesn't warrant a character to be ban worthy
It's obvious he is the best, no more than it being obvious that Yun in the best in SSF4AE With little no mus that are bad for him.
That doesn't warrant a character to be ban worthy
I didn't think Kadaj was serious... Until I saw MK next to his name. That's when I knew he was serious... The statement of "MK hasn't been banned for two years now! That must mean he isn't broken enough!" is indeed a terrible arguement.
DRDN
Smash Master
MK is broken he just hasnt been used to his full potential enough to prove it
ally vs M2K where M2k had over 100 ledge grabs ally couldnt do a damn thing about it
ally vs M2K where M2k had over 100 ledge grabs ally couldnt do a damn thing about it
Rich Brown Vs Will, 185 Ledgegrabs later. Should DK be banned simply cause of that?
No, MK is broken not only cause of his Planking. It's for many other ******** reasons as well...
DRDN
Smash Master
He was vulnerable just rich didnt figure it out all he needed was timing
But MK can remain completely invulnerable
You guys are the ones that made him "broken" due to the modifications to the gameplay.
Remember this game wasn't made to be competitive, meant to be played with items on etc.
So the MK is broken thing, really needs to stop. It's getting old.
Remember this game wasn't made to be competitive, meant to be played with items on etc.
So the MK is broken thing, really needs to stop. It's getting old.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
So what if a lot of people use the character?
Lots of people want to have a shot at winning so they use the best character in the game, it's the same for every competitive fighting game.
Lots of people want to have a shot at winning so they use the best character in the game, it's the same for every competitive fighting game.
Steam
Smash Hero
he's only broken on brinstar. or when on the ledge. or when he's allowed to scrooge.
but those are all because of broken stages/other broken mechanics. definitely not just MK's character traits being used to their fullest potential/MK actually having a CP.
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Man... this whole thread turned into another MK ban debacle.
...
Hey BRC, are votes for Norfair gonna be finished anytime soon? I'm still working on compiling that research that you heard about, and I'm not sure if I'll finish compiling all of it any time soon.
...
Hey BRC, are votes for Norfair gonna be finished anytime soon? I'm still working on compiling that research that you heard about, and I'm not sure if I'll finish compiling all of it any time soon.
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Messages
- 13,676
Wow, people seriously tried to use M2K vs Ally on Brinstar? A character on their best stage vs. a character on their worst stage. Put the best Marth against the best ICs on FD and see if you don't get pretty much the same results. A close matchup on the most biased stage possible.
On a more useful note, are other BBR-RC members taking info from their tournaments, like Xyro? Keeping track of what stages are CP'd/banned the most and with what characters and so forth.
On a more useful note, are other BBR-RC members taking info from their tournaments, like Xyro? Keeping track of what stages are CP'd/banned the most and with what characters and so forth.