The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[stingers]

theres a banana on the stage
u throw it off
problem solved

ddd is standing there with his oven mitts on
u try to take his oven mitts off, but they're glued onto his body.
then he grabs u and u die.

do u see the difference?
one is preventable (stopping the diddy from pulling a banana, or in the event one is pulled, getting control of the banana and removing it from play) - this means that the precondition for the infinite needs to be cleared before it can be performed.

the other is NOT preventable (u cannot take off ddd's oven mitts from his hand, and if u get grabbed, it is over) - this means that the precondition for the infinite is ALWAYS cleared, and there is nothing you can do about it. this is overcentralizing

u are thinking a step further then I am, which is when the infinite is actually being performed. i am not arguing anything about that, how easy or hard it is to do the infinite has no bearing on this conversation/ruling at all.

i think I figured out what ur thinking. u are thinking, that for example the DDD infinite on DK is "preventable" in that the DK just has to not get grabbed, right? thats not what im arguing, and really doesnt matter because that's just an extension of how easy/hard it is to perform, which we have already agreed does not matter. what im arguing is that, there is nothing that the DK could have possibly done to stop the infinite from occuring in the event he does get grabbed, which is overcentralizing, which means it should not be legal.

anyway, im goin to bed now. if u respond ill look at it later tom. peace

 

[Ghostbone]

You can take a characters ability to grab you away

It's called getting them in the air.

And there are other prerequisites as well.

D3 can't infinite DK over the ledge iirc, so he not only has to grab you, he has to grab you on the main part of the stage, not close to the ledge.

Marth can't even infinite Lucas, it's a walking chain-grab, just don't get grabbed in the wrong position.

 

[Luigi player]

D3 can't infinite DK over the ledge iirc, so he not only has to grab you, he has to grab you on the main part of the stage, not close to the ledge.

Actually, as long as DK is on the stage D3 can grab and infinite him, he just has to abuse his long *** grabrange and grab DK from as far as his grab connects.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

LOL at people being okay with this ruleset because it benefits their characters.

My maining Dedede has nothing to do with me supporting this entire ruleset except for the stagelist.

The fact that it is a good ruleset aside from the stagelist is why I support it.

You think I like getting CP'd with Ice Climbers? Do you really think that is fun? It's an almost unwinnable MU, on the level of Marth for Lucas. Either ban all infinites or ban none of them. The BBRRC chose none, and I am completely okay with that. I have this thing called a secondary for the Ice Climbers. Actually, two of them, but that's besides the point.

Either 1) learn the MU and deal with it or 2) pick a secondary. It's your choice.

Also, when it comes to DK, I know I've seen Will beat Dededes. It is not as effortless as you are making it out to be. Yes he loses a stock after a grab, but the entire cast has that against the Ice Climbers. Skill should not be a factor; after all, we don't ban Mach Tornado, do we? Or Falco's laser.

 

[Chuee]

Having infinites legal but having a LGL is kinda silly.

 

[Orion*]

I can say don't get grabbed in the same way you can say don't get into a position where Diddy can infinite you. What's the difference? It's harder to not get grabbed, sure.

Why are you saying "stoppable/unstoppable"?

Are you going to argue that it's completely impossible to not get grabbed?
Are you going to argue that it's completely possible to avoid Diddy's infinite?

I don't see how you can argue both at the same time.

Not to say that I disagree with you or stingers, but I want to say that I don't really think you see what he's trying to articulate...

You think I like getting CP'd with Ice Climbers? Do you really think that is fun? It's an almost unwinnable MU, on the level of Marth for Lucas.

it's bad but not THAT bad bro lmao

edit:

Who called the "dear brc" thread getting locked

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Actually yeah it is about that bad. ICs is easily Dedede's worst MU.

It's still winnable, but so is Marth vs. Lucas or Ganondorf vs. Olimar/Pit/so many others. It's a ridiculous uphill battle.

 

[SpongeJordan]

I don't understand how this discussion is still going on about nitpicking infinites.

If you're getting infinited, its your fault, especially with the CP system so deeply embedded into the Smash community. You shouldn't have been a character that is capable of being infinited if you have such an issue with it. Have an issue with the ICs CG? Go ICs. Have an issue with D3's standing CG? Go weegee. The same way you go "Oh, he's DK, I don't want to be Cargo Hold Release infinited, so I won't play Lucas", you should understand the limitations to every matchup involving your characters.

Just because you don't want to handle a certain facet of the game doesn't mean it should be banned. It sucks, but thats where knowing when to not play your main is a strong skill to have.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

it's bad but not THAT bad bro lmao

It's not just the infinites; ganon can't get past blizzard. Like, at all. It's seen as almost as bad as sheik, for the most part.

I don't understand how this discussion is still going on about nitpicking infinites.

If you're getting infinited, its your fault, especially with the CP system so deeply embedded into the Smash community. You shouldn't have been a character that is capable of being infinited if you have such an issue with it. Have an issue with the ICs CG? Go ICs. Have an issue with D3's standing CG? Go weegee. The same way you go "Oh, he's DK, I don't want to be Cargo Hold Release infinited, so I won't play Lucas", you should understand the limitations to every matchup involving your characters.

Just because you don't want to handle a certain facet of the game doesn't mean it should be banned. It sucks, but thats where knowing when to not play your main is a strong skill to have.

MEGA THIS.

It's a character weakness. Learn to play around it (see also: NeK in germany, Will/Ook in the states...), or pick up a secondary (see also: TKD has MK, Light has MK, Ravenlord has half the cast...).

Just for reference, I have a good friend around here who mains wario. He goes close to even with my MK, but I keep on thrashing him on my counterpick. Why? Because I have a DDD secondary. And believe me when I say this-he hates DDD. Why? Because depending on my position/which stage it is, every grab is a guaranteed 30-50 damage and will kill starting around 130-140. This CG is part of why DDD-Wario sucks for wario on flat stages like FD (in fact, FD really ****s the matchup up for wario). But is it reasonable to ban that? The execution takes virtually no skill, it's incredibly hard to get around as wario, and it does massive damage and can kill.
What about Pika's non-infinite CGs on Fox?
Sheik's Ftilt locks that go up to like 90 on Fox?

Where do we draw the line between "character weakness" and "oh my god ban plz"?

Smart answer: "We don't". DK getting infinited by DDD is just as much of a character weakness as Ness getting GR'd by Marth, Ganon getting destroyed by ICs, Wario eating CG/GR->smash from a lot of characters, and CF getting brutally out-zoned by Marth and MK. You either learn to get around it, you pick up a secondary for the matchup, or you lose.

Deal with it.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

actually i still think that (metaknight excluded) if your opponents character can infinite your character then one who i succeptible to being infinited should have no lgl. i don't care if that would allow people to plank diddy kong a lot of if that makes things hard for ice climbers or whatever because all characters with infinites are buffed by a lot due to the lgl while those who could at least plank are debuffed due to the lgl against characters with infinites. DK should have no lgl vs DDD. no1 (again metaknight excluded) should not be able to plank ICs or diddy. lucas and ness should be able to plank DK (although idk how good their ledge games could possibly be. i mean ness has fair but how would lucas even plank?).

by removing the lgl specifically against a character who can be infinited for that particulatr MU (again, mk excluded since his planking is already more broken than any infinite) then you are at least giving those characters all of their options to fight something gay with something equally gay.

DK totally deserves to plank DDD, and practically everybody deserves to plank ICs.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wait, what?

I thought you supported an infinite ban, BPC?

 

[MK26]

Where do we draw the line between "character weakness" and "oh my god ban plz"?

Smart answer: "We don't".

Nice post, but it's funny how this exact logic can be used to attack an LGL
"your opponent is planking you? It's not his fault your character is weak to that."

actually i still think that (metaknight excluded) if your opponents character can infinite your character then one who i succeptible to being infinited should have no lgl. i don't care if that would allow people to plank diddy kong a lot of if that makes things hard for ice climbers or whatever because all characters with infinites are buffed by a lot due to the lgl while those who could at least plank are debuffed due to the lgl against characters with infinites. DK should have no lgl vs DDD. no1 (again metaknight excluded) should not be able to plank ICs or diddy. lucas and ness should be able to plank DK (although idk how good their ledge games could possibly be. i mean ness has fair but how would lucas even plank?).

by removing the lgl specifically against a character who can be infinited for that particulatr MU (again, mk excluded since his planking is already more broken than any infinite) then you are at least giving those characters all of their options to fight something gay with something equally gay.

DK totally deserves to plank DDD, and practically everybody deserves to plank ICs.

That's the basic equivalent of annulling the LGL rule for matchups involving one or more diddies, because diddy can infinite everybody (except luigi) and everybody can infinite him some way or another (for instance, kirby has at least 3 different ways of doing so, with the number of banana throws and footstools between each time kirby touches the ground varying)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yo, Lucas main who's been whining for the last three pages:

1) Grammar and spelling. Learn what these two things are. 2 =/= to or too.

2) More that 3 characters are playable, so there was no point in that hyperbole.

3) Suck it up. Your character has a weakness, get used to it if you want to play Brawl without using MK. Either learn the Lucas vs Marth MU better, get a secondary, or get a new main. The rule isn't going to change just because you don't like the fact your character has a crippling weakness.

 

[Tesh]

Infinites are legal because MK doesn't have an infinite. They would definitely be banned if MK had an infinite on Snake or Diddy.

That is addressing the person saying LGL is silly if infinites are legal.

General consensus is that if its not worse than MK, its not broken, because MK isn't broken.

 

[MK26]

@tesh: the logic is "an infinite does not break a matchup. being susceptible to an infinite is a character weakness. outside of mk, planking does not break a matchup. outside of mk, being susceptible to planking is a character weakness. thus, no character but mk should have an lgl. mk's planking is exceptional, and therefore deserves exceptional status."

===

@OP: general gameplay rules 7 and 8 look like they can be combined

7. The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.

+

8. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

=

Making the game unplayable, either intentionally or unintentionally, will result in a forfeit of the current match. Stalling, or intentionally making the game unplayable, includes becoming invisible, reaching a position where your opponent can never reach you, and continuing an infinite, chain grab, or other uninterruptable move past 300%. In addition, you are responsible for knowing your character and must be wary about triggering an effect that unintentionally makes the game unplayable (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.).

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

This latest update just has us (the stages forum) scared ****less.


Remember back when the MLG stagelist was announced? Remember how it was called out by most as stupid? "OMG NORFAIR! OMG GG!"

Then the tournament came around and nothing bad happened.

This is the kind of experimentation the community has always needed more of. We're so ****ing quick to slap a ban on anything we find even remotely objectionable when it comes to stages, and after a stage is banned, it's not getting unbanned.

Now, look at the stagelist right now. Does it seem like a legitimate stagelist? Almost anyone on the east coast would probably say "Yes". Because it is the average AN ruleset. I'm scared ****less that a number of the BBRRC (Bizkit, Chibo, Xyro?) will look at this and say, "Hey, we're good, this is legit, let's leave it here. For as long as possible.". Maybe this fear is unjustified. But somehow I don't think so. Like, picto was the last big complaint. Not replacing it with something is not a good sign. I'm glad you guys are still discussing it though.

The way I look at it: A stage needs to be thoroughly tested in tournament or tournament like play before we go ahead and endorse it as competitive. With these things it's honestly better to be safe than sorry because if we're sorry we get things like:

1. A bunch of random high profile deaths due to the stages.

2. Mega scrutiny. Not like we aren't already under it though

Like I said though we are discussing things/taking the steps to actually get these tested in a "tournament-like" setting.

And replacing Picto isn't a matter of replacing it because we need the same number of stages. If there is a stage that we feel is legitimate enough to replace than sure we will do so and we are discussing multiple stages right now. But if there isn't one, then we'll just leave it alone. It's that simple. Right now everything is still being discussed so I can't really say anything else about the matter at the moment. But I know you and many others want to know that we are actually paying attention to the public.

As far as HA stalling I'm still not entirely sure what to say about it. I do realize that isn't not impossible to stop it for most characters but it DOES to extent make a match unplayable for some characters and nearly unplayable in other cases. There's a difference between an aspect of an MU that makes it a bad or a hard counter and a tactic that makes a match unplayable. Yes, you can argue you're just recovering but if you're under FD for a 2 minutes, 1 minute even 30 seconds, can yous till say that? Some characters risk a stock attempting this. I don't really feel like getting into it further though, the other members brought up the other point I thought of immediately which was "It's at the TO's discretion". That kind of solves that issue lol

I just frankly would rather discuss other stuff.

 

[Zankoku]

I find it somewhat difficult for a stage to be "thoroughly tested in tournament" if it's not legal in tournament.

 

[T-block]

And the testing that does get done gets dismissed as low-level play.

 

[Orion*]

Actually yeah it is about that bad. ICs is easily Dedede's worst MU.

It's still winnable, but so is Marth vs. Lucas or Ganondorf vs. Olimar/Pit/so many others. It's a ridiculous uphill battle.

It's not comparable to marth vs lucas or Ganon vs like any good character. Those MUs literally... like there's just no hope in them in a tournament set. DDD can still win it's just bad rofl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UninVjXd4

not that videos show everything but its a okay match

Have an issue with the ICs CG? Go ICs. Have an issue with D3's standing CG? Go weegee.

lol wut

It's not just the infinites; ganon can't get past blizzard. Like, at all. It's seen as almost as bad as sheik, for the most part.

Talking about DDD vs ICs bro

DK totally deserves to plank DDD, and practically everybody deserves to plank ICs.

I agree with this mentality

And the testing that does get done gets dismissed as low-level play.

Many times it is... I don't care if random joe schmoe can't abuse the stage properly lol

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nice post, but it's funny how this exact logic can be used to attack an LGL
"your opponent is planking you? It's not his fault your character is weak to that."

It's really hard to say "pick a secondary" when there's exactly 0 characters that don't get ***** by MK's planking. Just sayin'.

Wait, what?

I thought you supported an infinite ban, BPC?

Come to think of it... I thought I did?

Meh, tbh I'm neutral to the issue overall. I don't really give a **** either way.

The way I look at it: A stage needs to be thoroughly tested in tournament or tournament like play before we go ahead and endorse it as competitive. With these things it's honestly better to be safe than sorry because if we're sorry we get things like:

1. A bunch of random high profile deaths due to the stages.

2. Mega scrutiny. Not like we aren't already under it though

Sad fact: AN sucks at stages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

I will keep bringing this video up. Why? It's hilarious. Like, sure, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at parts of it, but it's so ****ing funny to watch these players, the "Best of the best", showing a complete and utter failure to react to simple stage hazards/deal with easily-avoided ****.

But yeah, I get it. Unfortunately...

I find it somewhat difficult for a stage to be "thoroughly tested in tournament" if it's not legal in tournament.

This...

And the testing that does get done gets dismissed as low-level play.

...and this.

Let me put it bluntly. We will never get another opportunity like MLG. Not from the prizes, not from the exposure, not from the sponsorship... I mean from the advancement of the ruleset. No other tournament can so blatantly say "here's the ruleset, don't like it? Deal with it." Not unless they're guaranteeing a few thousand bucks at every tournament. And the best part? They probably could've gotten away with way, way more. Like, with that kind of clout, they could've had PTAD and Pirate Ship legal and people would've still gone. A new national, be it with top-level TOs and a perfect location, simply would not get away with something like that. At all.

We saw a row of 5 major nationals, full of top players, with two "highly questionable" stages (Norfair and Green Greens) legal. No abuse was documented. Is it unfair to follow from "no documented abuse happened in 5 major nationals" to "no abuse is reasonably to be expected"?

Like I said though we are discussing things/taking the steps to actually get these tested in a "tournament-like" setting.

This is nice, but we have that testing. Don't we? Hasn't texas been running Norfair and Japes for quite a while now? Didn't MLG show off some interesting results with GG and Norfair? Why would this further testing matter much? And how can we ensure that its detractors don't shrug it off as "low-level play"? I mean, I could point to how Nova Scotia has been running 21-stage lists with 9 starters, PS2 included, and has not had any issue with it, but they apparently suck too much to matter...

And furthermore, there are those who will ignore any evidence. I could expound for days about how awesome PTAD is to people like ADHD (or a fair number of people on the BRC for that matter) and they would not care. It simply wouldn't matter to them; they don't like it, their friends don't like it, it's not coming on. So... What then?


I dunno.


@Orion: MLG.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I totally get what you're saying but the other aspect (and by far the biggest obstacle in making a "universal" ANYTHING) is that we HAVE to take into consideration public opinion. The whole point is for people to to accept the ruleset as a happy medium ( I feel like I've explained this at least 3 times in this thread alone lol) . We could present all of your facts, data results from extensive testing, advocate it, endorse it but if people still don't want to deal with it and its an overwhelming majority then that affects us.

Hmm...I'm going to take a better look at your stage analysis threads this afternoon.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Two things...

1. I know. The problem is always: "PEOPLE ARE ****ING MORONS". /TotallyNotAnArrogant*******
2. Don't actually have that many... But stage discussion has a bunch and from what I hear, the BBR is working on some pretty mean stuff...

 

[MK26]

@bpc:

the logic is "an infinite does not break a matchup. being susceptible to an infinite is a character weakness. outside of mk, planking does not break a matchup. outside of mk, being susceptible to planking is a character weakness. thus, no character but mk should have an lgl. mk's planking is exceptional, and therefore deserves exceptional status."

I know.

 

[T-block]

we HAVE to take into consideration public opinion. The whole point is for people to to accept the ruleset as a happy medium ( I feel like I've explained this at least 3 times in this thread alone lol) . We could present all of your facts, data results from extensive testing, advocate it, endorse it but if people still don't want to deal with it and its an overwhelming majority then that affects us.

And this is why I'm not passionately opposing everything I find wrong with this ruleset (Pictochat was an exception T.T)

Seriously BPC, this "war" is getting us nowhere.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm just taking things that I disagree with calmly, and one rule at a time. Slowly but surely we'll get there.

Also, BPC, by any chance, have you seen the episode of DI where AZ speaks about the ruleset?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nope. Link?

 

[Tesh]

I find it somewhat difficult for a stage to be "thoroughly tested in tournament" if it's not legal in tournament.

And the testing that does get done gets dismissed as low-level play.

as yes this, the oppostition will always say that if someone insane doesn't happen on Pirate Ship, Japes or w/e that it wasn't being abused properly. If you look at the Norfair match, you could likely swap it out with 20% of the high level matches on RC, slap on some idiot commentary and talk about how RC should be banned as well.


@ BPC its actually quite sad how poor the play was in that match and how ignorant the commentary was. It does offer some insight into why people shy away from alot of these stages and how educating them might actually help the issue.

 

[WindMajor]

On the phone, buddy. Its a sticky in General Brawl Discussion though, episode 20-something.

Oh look: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291311 #27

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@ BPC its actually quite sad how poor the play was in that match and how ignorant the commentary was. It does offer some insight into why people shy away from alot of these stages and how educating them might actually help the issue.

Exactly why this side event is such a wonderful idea. Funny story... There's this Toon Link main here in Germany, Kunai... He's a solid player and all, but he somehow got it in his head that MK is broken on RC... because he can guarantee easy kills on the rising segment. A little context: RC is banned almost universally in Germany.

What he had to say on the matter was something like this:
"On RC, MK has this really broken part. Basically if you're on the left side of the rising portion, Shuttle Loop starts killing obscenely early. Plus, you can always combo uair->upB for the kill!"

...Remember, this is not a bad player! This guy is the best TL in germany, and genuinely considered a tournament threat by most people. He's not PR, but he's certainly not "random". A large part of his aversion came from something about the stage that simply was not true by any means! And you know what? This is exactly the kind of complaint you hear about stages like Japes today. Uninformed, wrong ones. Would you guys laugh spitefully at Kunai for a ridiculous comment like that? Then maybe you can understand why I laugh spitefully (and, to a much greater extent, cry myself to sleep) when I hear things like "Falco is broken on Japes" or "People have a clue what they are talking about when they claim that PTAD is broken".

 

[WindMajor]

There's this Toon Link main here in Germany, Kunai... He's a solid player and all, but he somehow got it in his head that MK is broken on RC... because he can guarantee easy kills on the rising segment.

Alternatively, this sentence could have ended at the word broken and it would've been factual.

In all seriousness though, stage knowledge just isn't widespread. We do work in the Stage Discussion forum, but the place is just so unappealing to visitors for a multitude of reasons, that it never gets put to much use.

I'm just waiting for the Stage Analysis project to come out, maybe that'll do us some justice.

 

[Luigi player]

Exactly why this side event is such a wonderful idea. Funny story... There's this Toon Link main here in Germany, Kunai... He's a solid player and all, but he somehow got it in his head that MK is broken on RC... because he can guarantee easy kills on the rising segment. A little context: RC is banned almost universally in Germany.

What he had to say on the matter was something like this:
"On RC, MK has this really broken part. Basically if you're on the left side of the rising portion, Shuttle Loop starts killing obscenely early. Plus, you can always combo uair->upB for the kill!"

...Remember, this is not a bad player! This guy is the best TL in germany, and genuinely considered a tournament threat by most people. He's not PR, but he's certainly not "random". A large part of his aversion came from something about the stage that simply was not true by any means! And you know what? This is exactly the kind of complaint you hear about stages like Japes today. Uninformed, wrong ones. Would you guys laugh spitefully at Kunai for a ridiculous comment like that? Then maybe you can understand why I laugh spitefully (and, to a much greater extent, cry myself to sleep) when I hear things like "Falco is broken on Japes" or "People have a clue what they are talking about when they claim that PTAD is broken".

lol

You're acting like Kunai would have any word on the ruleset in germany, but that's not the case.
Kunai btw also likes Brinstar and even CPs it against MKs.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm acting like that? Of course not, I know he has very little to do with ruleset creation. I'm using him as an example of someone who does not know what he's talking about when it comes to stages, despite being a genuinely decent player. I'm using an example that anyone here could relate to, because obviously screaming "no no no your claims on obscure stage X are WRONG GAAAAAH" isn't doing the trick.

 

[Orion*]

@Orion: MLG.

Pretty much... Every time anyone uses MLG for anything I just go lol laggy TVs >.>

But pretty much no S tier players where even counterpicking the gay stages regularly because they either
A. Know it's bull****
B. Aren't used to the stage enough to counterpick it regularly in Nationals.

The only time I've even seen/heard of a non gay stage was like when Mhaze and Ook had that **** match there rofllll.

Exactly why this side event is such a wonderful idea. Funny story... There's this Toon Link main here in Germany, Kunai... He's a solid player and all, but he somehow got it in his head that MK is broken on RC...

He isn't persay "broken" on RC in the terms of like everything is unwinnable. So you can endlessly theory craft debate with whoever here and still not understand what goes on.

But the amount that you have to outskill other good players when playing an MK on that stage is ridiculousssss. The only non MK player I even think metas would ban it vs is Vinnie, and he just ***** there regardless of character

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I really liked PS1 as a neutral, I've always felt that it's changes weren't -SO- radical that it should be a counter pick. Lylat is a good candidate for a neutral though.

Picto being gone definitely needed to happen though.

 

[Orion*]

Seriously now that Picto is gone I feel like the minor details that I disagree with are kinda well... just nitpicking

 

[Espy Rose]

That's a shame, because this ruleset isn't ideal just yet.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

GG/Norfair were picked plenty of times at MLG. I know I CP'd Norfair twice at Dallas (And lost both times) but I didn't feel like the stage gayed me. The save on Gnes was unfortunate, but I didn't feel cheated out of a win. I used Green Greens several times too, and it only felt gimmicky at Orlando before I really knew what was going on.

 

[Life]

Pretty much... Every time anyone uses MLG for anything I just go lol laggy TVs >.>

But pretty much no S tier players where even counterpicking the gay stages regularly because they either
A. Know it's bull****
B. Aren't used to the stage enough to counterpick it regularly in Nationals.

The only time I've even seen/heard of a non gay stage was like when Mhaze and Ook had that **** match there rofllll.

Y'know, this reminds me of something. I was having a conversation with DMG (I think it was) a while back, before Dallas. He was claiming Norfair was broken for Wario. I told him he'd better win Dallas, then. Guy ended up not showing IIRC. Now, OK, life happens and we can't all go to everything. DMG, not hating on you. At all. *brofist*

But if you're so certain that a given stage is broken, start taking money matches on that stage to prove it, and/or get your local TO to test the stage for a tournament or two. After all, if your tactic is so broken, victory should be guaranteed, no?

Free money.

Nothing to lose.

NOTHING.

And what ESAM said.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

if you think about it, if we had all stages legal, then there would be no need to limit planking or infinites because there are so many stages where it isn't even possible to do those (big blue, ptad, distant planet because when it rains it pours, spear pillar's hazards). come on guys we should just un ban everything and every tactic!

this message brought to you by TPI (troll posts incorporated) giving you pointless posts since before the internet came out.

(for those of you who are dumb, this disclaimer is here too make sure you know i was joking. although banned stages make great side events tbh just because they be so trollin.)

tpi and all other trademarks and slogan's are owned by Mortan Salt company. this is a standing copyright patent of effect as of 2011 and any all attempts of fraud and plaegerism......

 

[Espy Rose]

It probably won't work too well, IC.
Because it takes more than one game to win a set.