The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Isatis]

Is OMAR even up to date?

Some of the members on that list either don't TO anymore or have switched sides.

 

[Ripple]

aka

The original idea for the RC.

Roughly 50 TO's who won't ban MK.

50 TOs that will most likely have a decreased tournament size

 

[Orion*]

That 60% that doesn't do well? Remove them and see how the pots look.

that's the worst argument ever.

dont try to rationalize people with no knowledge of what their doing into being treated as equals in said debate.

 

[popsofctown]

Players who make last may know what's going on. By your logic, M2K could get a tumor damaging the spatial/visual part of his brain, and all of his arguments about why MK should remain legal would immediately become invalid now that he places last at every tournament.

 

[fkacyan]

69 is big enough to warrant pools. Hell, 24 is big enough to warrant pools. Pools is really, really good for low-level players. Instead of just 1-2 you're out in the bracket, they get at least, say, 4-7 sets. That's a huge improvement. Sure, it takes time, but to what extent don't you have time for it? Maybe if your singles event runs over like half a day or something... I was actually pretty miffed when I found out KTAR6 didn't have pools, especially because, well, two shots and you're out. And then you can't play until the tournament is pretty much done because everyone needs the TVs. I was lucky enough to make my way through a pretty easy bracket wing to 33rd, but if I had gotten it harder, then I would've been fairly disappointed.

Pools are only a necessity for people to play if they're not going to be able to get any friendlies in at all,[edit] or if you have an absolutely massive number of entrants you need to cut a massive fraction out of[edit]. If you can set up your venue in a way that allows constant friendlies, pools are useless timewasters. Pools are made even worse by the fact that most TOs, even major TOs, have no idea how to set them up.

To output to a 48-man bracket you have 16 pools of top3 advancing, giving each of the number one seeds a bye... But that's pretty suboptimal, and you waste an awful lot of time only eliminating 21 people.

 

[Zankoku]

If you can set up your venue in a way that allows constant friendlies then you're either made of money and have an amazing venue and plenty of TVs and Wiis, or you have a large enough attendance to justify doing pools.

 

[Orion*]

Players who make last may know what's going on. By your logic, M2K could get a tumor damaging the spatial/visual part of his brain, and all of his arguments about why MK should remain legal would immediately become invalid now that he places last at every tournament.

Don't put words in my mouth. Shoutouts to you proving my point more btw

 

[Judo777]

If you can set up your venue in a way that allows constant friendlies then you're either made of money and have an amazing venue and plenty of TVs and Wiis, or you have a large enough attendance to justify doing pools.

This is worded confusingly I don't follow lol. What if you have like 4 people and 2 TV's. 1 is for friendlies and the other is for tournament (lol 4 man tournament)

 

[popsofctown]

Don't put words in my mouth. Shoutouts to you proving my point more btw

What's wrong with the comparison?

 

[Omni]

Is OMAR even up to date?

Some of the members on that list either don't TO anymore or have switched sides.

Nope, but I'm sure if I scanned through it again it'd fall roughly around 50 again with added/subtracted TO's.

50 TOs that will most likely have a decreased tournament size

Not really. If someone hosts an MK allowed tournament in a region people aren't going to just stop going just because other tournaments ban MK. Neither will they travel +5 hours to attend an MK banned tournament. Brawl is Brawl. Unless you can somehow get young smashers to protest attending MK banned tournaments by forcing them to stay home on Saturday's and play with their Gigapets.

 

[Zankoku]

Technically it would be more efficient to use both TVs until the final matches.
A vs B and C vs D (2 TVs), then A vs C and B vs D (2 TVs), then B vs C (1 TV), then A vs B (1 TV).

Not really. If someone hosts an MK allowed tournament in a region people aren't going to just stop going just because other tournaments ban MK. Neither will they travel +5 hours to attend an MK banned tournament. Brawl is Brawl. Unless you can somehow get young smashers to protest attending MK banned tournaments by forcing them to stay home on Saturday's and play with their Gigapets.

Did you seriously get every single TO in entire states to agree not to ban Meta Knight? Otherwise, threats/"claims" of having to drive way out of the way for one tournament or another are rather empty. Besides that, if every single TO in a given state does not want to ban Meta Knight, chances are neither do most of the players in that state.

 

[fkacyan]

If you can set up your venue in a way that allows constant friendlies then you're either made of money and have an amazing venue and plenty of TVs and Wiis, or you have a large enough attendance to justify doing pools.

Now I want to do an analysis of how many attendees you need before it becomes more time-efficient to run pools as opposed to straight brackets.

 

[Zankoku]

Admittedly, doing a round of pools that eliminates significantly under half the players in the tournament will be inefficient all the time.

 

[Isatis]

Nope, but I'm sure if I scanned through it again it'd fall roughly around 50 again with added/subtracted TO's.

Do it then.

 

[Omni]

Otherwise, threats/"claims" of having to drive way out of the way for one tournament or another are rather empty. Besides that, if every single TO in a given state does not want to ban Meta Knight, chances are neither do most of the players in that state.

...I'm not sure if I misworded my paragraph or you misread, but yes, this is what I mean.

 

[Zankoku]

You meant that you contacted states where nobody wanted to ban MK and had their TOs agree that they won't ban MK? Well, I guess I can't argue with taking a subset of players who are fine with MK and finding out that everyone in the subset is fine with MK.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=124833

 

[Orion*]

What's wrong with the comparison?

You didn't compare anything logically. All you did was make an assumption about what I'm thinking in a post directed at someone that I know personally.

InB4 that post was an assumption. The post was general. In that people who just randomly show up at tournaments like don't know as much as they would like to believe about the game on a average level. Just like everyone else, everywhere in the world, youre opinion will get expressed better if you work for it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Actually, can we discuss why YI:B is still legal? Could I get someone actually on the BRC to explain it to me? Because I fail to see why Picto gets the boot for excessive randomness and YI:B does not.

Because Pictochat's randomness has the ability to skew momentum while YI merely resets it.

If someone gets saved by the support platform, then he gets back on stage and you keep fighting, no real harm done. One player lost the advantage but no one is disadvantaged.

If I get grabbed and then thrown into the back of a rocket on Pictochat as it is spawning and die, my opponent just gained a huge advantage and the other gained a huge disadvantage from chance.

The other thing is that Pictochat's randomness is more difficult to prepare for. YI only has two variables, when the platform will pop up and on which side, and you only have to worry about one of them at a time.

 

[Ussi]

I'm always ready for the side platform on YI:B, shy guys not so much though..

 

[Exceladon City]

Because Pictochat's randomness has the ability to skew momentum while YI merely resets it.

If someone gets saved by the support platform, then he gets back on stage and you keep fighting, no real harm done. One player lost the advantage but no one is disadvantaged.

If I get grabbed and then thrown into the back of a rocket on Pictochat as it is spawning and die, my opponent just gained a huge advantage and the other gained a huge disadvantage from chance.

The other thing is that Pictochat's randomness is more difficult to prepare for. YI only has two variables, when the platform will pop up and on which side, and you only have to worry about one of them at a time.

Rockets have fixed knockback. Spikes/cart are a different story though.

 

[Jane]

YI:B is fine. I'm surprised people hate stages that have Shy Guys. How can anyone hate Shy Guys?

seriously, wtf? yoshi's island is so happy and bright and colorful and randall's reincarnation and shy guys.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

seriously, wtf? yoshi's island is so happy and bright and colorful and randall's reincarnation and shy guys.

Being happy and bright and colourful and having two brand new "randall's" that are completely random and shy guys that appear below the stage seemingly for no other purpose than to gimp Ness does not a competitive stage make.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Rockets have fixed knockback.

They can still KO you off of the side at any percentage.

 

[BSP]

If someone gets saved by the support platform, then he gets back on stage and you keep fighting, no real harm done. One player lost the advantage but no one is disadvantaged.

If you edge guard someone well enough to where they're going to die, then the platform comes up, that's some harm done. What would have been a stock loss anywhere else now becomes a neutral situation again. Yes, you could prepare for this and knock them back off, but your opponent can probably recover now, especially if it was a low % gimp.

The other thing is that Pictochat's randomness is more difficult to prepare for. YI only has two variables, when the platform will pop up and on which side, and you only have to worry about one of them at a time.

This is one legitimate point that makes Picto worse IMO, but YI saving stocks and sometimes stopping low % gimps is a big deal. Plus we all know how big momentum changes in brawl can be.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I was speaking relatively.

Yes, YI:B's randomness is still bad, I was explaining why it isn't as bad as Pictochat.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The other thing is that Pictochat's randomness is more difficult to prepare for. YI only has two variables, when the platform will pop up and on which side, and you only have to worry about one of them at a time.

Wrong. Shy Guys. Especially the ones that appear BELOW THE STAGE and move in such a way that I can see no other reason for them to exist except to specifically and randomly gimp Ness.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not going to sacrifice stage depth so an unviable, unplayed character won't occasionally miss his recovery, sorry.

 

[-Ran]

I'll keep you all from talking in circles: We've done more work than just a simple poll. Just because you've only seen one aspect of what we've used to gain more knowledge on the subject, doesn't mean you have the full story. There will be disclosure of the information when we reach the point of our decision being made/released.

 

[Ripple]

There will be disclosure of the information when we reach the point of our decision being made/released.

inb4afterapex

 

[Player-1]

Smashville's random balloon can gimp ness too, ban SV

 

[BSP]

Sigh, poor ness, always getting gimped by the most silly things

 

[R e d X]

I'll keep you all from talking in circles: We've done more work than just a simple poll. Just because you've only seen one aspect of what we've used to gain more knowledge on the subject, doesn't mean you have the full story. There will be disclosure of the information when we reach the point of our decision being made/released.

I'm sure you guys have done more than just a poll lol. Like I said, I'm sure you guys will make right decision, whatever it is. And btw roughly when is this decision to be made/disclosed? A little curious lol.

 

[Player-1]

By the end of the month hopefully.

 

[Ripple]

By the end of the month hopefully.

you're saying we will have decision within 3 days?

 

[John12346]

Unrelated, but I thought it was determined that Smashville's balloon goes on set paths...

Spoiler

 

[-Ran]

That was the internal deadline that we decided to go with, unless we need more time. At the moment discussions are still following the time table.

 

[fkacyan]

I'll keep you all from talking in circles: We've done more work than just a simple poll. Just because you've only seen one aspect of what we've used to gain more knowledge on the subject, doesn't mean you have the full story. There will be disclosure of the information when we reach the point of our decision being made/released.

Transparency is better than saying "We'll show you when we have something."

Always.

 

[-Ran]

There are certain forum protocols that prevent us from being able to explain everything that was done currently.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Ripple: yes, we are working out final details now regarding MK. Decision and announcement soon.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sigh, poor ness, always getting gimped by the most silly things

If it makes you feel better, both Lucas and Ness can be hindered by the tilting of Lylat Cruise.