The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[AllyKnight]

What's the point of banning MK at this point? Some hosts aren't okay with it and some are.

This is only going to create 2 split community. Half the attendance, venue fee problems, hell, it's not a + really. I think we should wait for 2012/12/12 for MK to be Ban. We should all just try and play the game how it is until then. =l

 

[B.A.M.]

Transparency is better than saying "We'll show you when we have something."

Always.

Transparency dont exist here. This is the brawl community we are talking about.

And i dont really agree with everyone on this stage depth crap. Majority of stage depth in this game comes from when to camp or what place you can use a ridiculously strong brainless tactic. Id sacrifice stage depth any day if it meant a somewhat equal ground for the majority of the cast. The way i look at it, stage depth and character viability is inversely proportional in this game. Iono why everyone is in love with platformer moments in a middle of a fighting game. Or multiple intermissions during a fight. Or arbitrary platforms reverting all of someones gimping work to nothing. Or arbitrary lava dictating the pace of the match instead of an opponent. Or a stage tilting being your worse enemy and not your opponent.

 

[Deleted member]

What's the point of banning MK at this point? Some hosts aren't okay with it and some are.

This is only going to create 2 split community. Half the attendance, venue fee problems, hell, it's not a + really. I think we should wait for 2012/12/12 for MK to be Ban. We should all just try and play the game how it is until then. =l

Why are you getting "half"? Check out the poll. That's not including the people who quit because of MK, which will most likely return to the scene.

 

[popsofctown]

it already splits the community. MK banned tournaments have started cropping up

 

[AllyKnight]

Why are you getting "half"? Check out the poll. That's not including the people who quit because of MK, which will most likely return to the scene.

I know alot of players that aren't going to Next juice tournament. about 10 of em.

 

[B.A.M.]

Because unfortunately, RC decision is pretty clear. Id bet money Meta is being banned. Ally, is M2K freakin out?

 

[Player-1]

@Ally, you do realize that's what people keep saying? Two years ago it was "wait until 2010", then it was "wait until after Genesis" now it's "wait until after Apex". We can't just keep putting off.

 

[AllyKnight]

I understand that, but I think it's kinda too late now. Like too late lol. Not everyone will follow the BBR RC anyways.

 

[R e d X]

I understand that, but I think it's kinda too late now. Like too late lol. Not everyone will follow the BBR RC anyways.

I think either way there will be a split. If the RC says "we're never banning MK" some people will be really pissed and quit/split off to have MK ban tournies. If the RC decides to ban him, people will be pissed that they did and will split off to keep playing MK.

The community stays together now because there is an end in sight one way or the other so everyone puts up with each other for now. Come a few days that won't be the case.

 

[Life]

Ripple: yes, we are working out final details now regarding MK. Decision and announcement soon.

working out final details

This might just be me overanalyzing stuff, but am I the only one that thinks that makes it sound more complicated than a simple yes or no? Like "MK will be banned after Apex" or something like that?

 

[Deleted member]

I understand that, but I think it's kinda too late now. Like too late lol. Not everyone will follow the BBR RC anyways.

But you don't understand that before, it was "it's too early to tell if he's truly ban-worthy".

We've waited long enough. We have the data. Let's just go through with it.

 

[Player-1]

if it's too late then why do you want to wait until 2012 >.>?

And Sakurai hasn't even started working on the next smash game and has said it can take up to 5 years for the next smash game, that's plenty of time we have.

 

[B.A.M.]

If people continue to play it.

 

[AllyKnight]

The 2012 was referring to if we're even going to be alive LOL. I was joking about waiting.

It's really too late guys. Yeah they said 'too early blahblah' but you guys should have made a rebellion instead of listening to the BBR. This is the same case, except with the BBR-RC now.

 

[Deleted member]

If people continue to play it.

I predict the game will have more longevity with the ban.

 

[Zankoku]

The 2012 was referring to if we're even going to be alive LOL. I was joking about waiting.

It's really too late guys. Yeah they said 'too early blahblah' but you guys should have made a rebellion instead of listening to the BBR. This is the same case, except with the BBR-RC now.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=124825

If people still play, and they still want it to happen, then it's not too late.

 

[AllyKnight]

XD It's whatever I've wasted enough time here anyhow good luck with whatever happens I'll still attend regardless.

 

[DeLux]

Just to address why it's taking a few days:

I would like to reiterate that we are doing our due diligence on the topic. I've personally been listening to every argument raise and have been following the logic of each as best I can.

For example, one of the objections raised in the anti-ban movement has been that the top level of players are anti ban and the majority of the poll data comes from low level players. So that being said, I've personally gone through and isolated statistics that adequately supports a decision on the RC's part regarding that logic in terms of a judgment call.

The point is, we are trying to put together a well thought out response to the community in the next few days. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Deleted member]

It's really too late guys. Yeah they said 'too early blahblah' but you guys should have made a rebellion instead of listening to the BBR. This is the same case, except with the BBR-RC now.

What do you think we're doing right now?

Many TO's have taken the matter into their own hands and have begun hosting MK banned tourneys, and now we're just playing the waiting game until the RC announces their decision.

 

[B.A.M.]

So when is MK gonna be banned?

 

[popsofctown]

A good writeup with the decision has a big impact on how many people ragequit. It's worth the time.

 

[Player-1]

Ally, we potentially have 5 years to keep going. there's plenty of time

 

[Life]

A good writeup with the decision has a big impact on how many people ragequit. It's worth the time.

THIS
BRC take notes.

 

[R e d X]

A good writeup with the decision has a big impact on how many people ragequit. It's worth the time.

That's defs true. There will be some degree of trouble after the announcement and how the news is broken is very important in damage control. It's worth the time. After all we're trying to help the community not hinder it by making people ragequit lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

prevent ragequit by turning pause off

 

[popsofctown]

tbqh, banning MK improves life cycle for the game. But only in the same way banning Snake does, or the way banning Diddy does. It keeps things fresh. In MtG, there is both a Legacy format and a Modern format. Legacy has all cards legal, Modern is limited to recent additions, making it a strict subset of Legacy. The exclusion of cards allows strategies that aren't viable to work, letting you try out new strategies, and people like that, most magic players will play both legacy and extended if they can afford it (lolzy financial issues though). Here we have one or two characters that become viable, but we do also have a lot of dual high tier/high tier combinations that become way more viable, so people who are getting tired of the game will be refreshed a little bit the same way Project M seeks to refresh the Melee metagame.

And people should take notes on all my posts

 

[Life]

prevent ragequit by turning pause off

rimshot.mp3

 

[-Ran]

tbqh, banning MK improves life cycle for the game. But only in the same way banning Snake does, or the way banning Diddy does. It keeps things fresh. In MtG, there is both a Legacy format and a Modern format. Legacy has all cards legal, Modern is limited to recent additions, making it a strict subset of Legacy. The exclusion of cards allows strategies that aren't viable to work, letting you try out new strategies, and people like that, most magic players will play both legacy and extended if they can afford it (lolzy financial issues though). Here we have one or two characters that become viable, but we do also have a lot of dual high tier/high tier combinations that become way more viable, so people who are getting tired of the game will be refreshed a little bit the same way Project M seeks to refresh the Melee metagame.

And people should take notes on all my posts

MTG is a bad example. They phase out blocks of cards because if they didn't, the consumer would have nothing else to buy. This would mean they'd have to constantly reprint older, powerful cards, resulting in reduction of their value.

 

[Life]

If you're going to do a TCG, Yugioh is probably your best comparison since it doesn't phase out old sets (just maintains a ban/limit list). Except Konami more or less dictates the list--the only community input is "break it and we'll ban it".

 

[popsofctown]

MTG is a bad example. They phase out blocks of cards because if they didn't, the consumer would have nothing else to buy. This would mean they'd have to constantly reprint older, powerful cards, resulting in reduction of their value.

MTG's choice to encourage Modern play instead of Legacy play is a bad example, yes. That's why in the example I referred to players' own preference to play both formats. Players will do this even on simulators that don't cost them anything, throwing financial motivations out the window.

League of Legends' development team has said they are considering mimicking (sp?) MtG's behavior by arbitrarily banning a large proportion of the game's characters from season to season.

 

[Zankoku]

Legacy has its own banlist, popsofctown. The only format that doesn't ban cards (other than stupid things like Un sets and ante cards) is Vintage.

 

[Strong Badam]

yo i love winning on turn 0 with Flash Hulk

 

[popsofctown]

Legacy has its own banlist, popsofctown. The only format that doesn't ban cards (other than stupid things like Un sets and ante cards) is Vintage.

I'm aware. I was talking about set legality, which isn't based on cards that overcentralize the metagame, but rather, "I'm bored of this, let's go try this totally different metagame over there".

It's the same reason people play low tier tournaments. Considering how unpopular those are, though, I guess smash won't get much of a longevity boost.

 

[Zankoku]

Modern and Standard are only encouraged because Wizards doesn't make money off of old sets that are no longer actually in print.

Legacy's banlist is also based entirely on cards that overcentralize the metagame, as is Modern's specific-card banlist.

As a side note, I'm amused at how we're arguing against our own usual sides.

 

[Player-1]

Why are we talking about Wizards again?

 

[Zankoku]

So we can make parallels between Meta Knight and Stoneforge Mystic, clearly.

 

[popsofctown]

Let me try to be clear.

Gempalm Incinerator is illegal in Modern, even though it would not overcentralize Modern. Yes, this is mostly because Wizards likes money and it lowers the amount of power creep necessary for them to make money off that format. But I know people who like the variety of the formats, and communities without profit motive play strict subset formats anyway (a forum I go to ran an extended tournament, then a legacy tournament, and then recently a modern tournament. All on a free simulator where we could have played legacy three times or vintage three times for free.) The reason they play them is because even though Gempalm Incinerator is part of a healthy Goblins versus Merfolk versus Elves Legacy format, they enjoy playing Faeries versus All in Red versus Thopter Foundry for a change (I used foggy memory of an earlier, healthier extended since Modern kinda has issues).


How are we on opposite sides, btw? I know I certainly have argued with you many a time. I <3 you though Ankoku.

 

[Zankoku]

I already know of the entire sets that aren't allowed. I'm not talking about that.

You missed their banlist.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=9894

 

[Strong Badam]

LOL @ Mental Misstep being banned. Phyrexian mana 2 good

 

[popsofctown]

I already know about the banlist. Legacy, Standard, extinct Extended, all have a banlist, and Vintage has a restricted list which is similar. I didn't acknowledge it because that banlist wasn't the point of my original analogy, the entire sets thing was the point of my original analogy, because I think Meta Knight is more of a Gempalm Incinerator than a Flash.