"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

[DRaGZ]

If Ganon can get in close, he can do a lot of terrible things to R.O.B., but a good R.O.B. isn't going to let this happen anyway. His spacing options are better, he's better at keeping Ganon away than Ganon is at approaching him, and he destroys him in the air and off-stage. The biggest pro I can see for Ganon is that R.O.B. is really big but not necessarily that heavy, so hitting a kill move on him, once you're up close, is easier than most.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've played some of my Ganon maining friends in this matchup, and I'd say it's easily around 65/35 or 70/30 in ROB's favor. 6/4 in ROB's favor if Ganon is on a good counterpick stage.

I mean, Ganon kinda has to approach due to the camping, and he doesn't have all that good of answers to ROB's spotdodge game. Well timed Forward Smashes and tilts stop Ganon's approaches pretty well too.

If ROB reads Ganon's recovery right, he's dead most of the time. F-airs and B-airs and even the D-air all can gimp Ganon pretty well.

Ganon has silly stuff like KOing early, stomping ROB's Up-B, and D-air -> whatever combos that hurt, but landing them is easier said than done when ROB's dumb spotdodge game avoids a lot of what Ganon does pretty easily.

 

[stingers]

My friend is a Ganon main so lets see here...

70-30 ROB.

Ganon has a huge trouble getting around camping, and very little safe approach options. ROB has better range, faster attacks, can edgeguard ganon effectively, and will always win in the air.

Good things for Ganon in this matchup are...You can kill is pretty early if you save your killing moves. ROB is a big target so an Fsmash should be pretty effective (that move has a surprising range, and most ROB players don't play many Ganon's so you should be able to hit with it.)

Ftilt isn't as good in this matchup because the downward angle it sends us at isn't very effective against ROB as compared to other characters. I'd try to kill more with Fsmash/Fair/Bair

 

[DRaGZ]

One thing you can do while right next to a R.O.B. who just side-stepped is a thunderstorm towards R.O.B. A lot of R.O.B.s will instinctively d-smash right after they side-step, and a short-hopped d-air by Ganondorf will go right over this while punishing R.O.B. severely.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

matchup over the ROB picture should be labled ROB instead of Zelda.

oh and I read the zelda matchup. that's nice. I'd definitely not lable spike V. Zelda amazing though, considering she teleports right past you unless she's an idiot, so you won't be intercepting her recovery with a spike. spike's only useable as a follow up.

I'm not sure what tip man is, so I can't say... but I can say that zelda lacks a good response to ganon's uair if they ar both aiborne

 

[A2ZOMG]

Reverse Up-air edgeguard is a semispike. Also known as tipman spike.

 

[hyperstation]

I'm not sure what tip man is, so I can't say... but I can say that zelda lacks a good response to ganon's uair if they ar both aiborne

A Tipman is a reverse UAir which hits the opponent with the very tip of Ganon's boot.

EDIT: Beat me to it ZOMG

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Reverse Up-air edgeguard is a semispike. Also known as tipman spike.

oh okay. well neither works exceptionally well aginst Zelda because she goes through things invincibly while recovering.

he can get both of them off by just setting up and doing it, but he can't intercept her recovery with either. her recovery landing might be punishable, but she's impossible to intercept.

I don't get hit by either often at all because it's not a place Zelda is comfortable, so she likely won't be there. I've gotten uaired as a punishment for trying to spike a gannon off the ledge, but that just hit me away, not down.

Iunno. I'd say they are effective when there is an opportunity to use them, but zelda will rarely ever be in a position to use them against her, espceially since she can safely recover through them with no risk of interception.

 

[adumbrodeus]

oh okay. well neither works exceptionally well aginst Zelda because she goes through things invincibly while recovering.

he can get both of them off by just setting up and doing it, but he can't intercept her recovery with either. her recovery landing might be punishable, but she's impossible to intercept.

I don't get hit by either often at all because it's not a place Zelda is comfortable, so she likely won't be there. I've gotten uaired as a punishment for trying to spike a gannon off the ledge, but that just hit me away, not down.

Iunno. I'd say they are effective when there is an opportunity to use them, but zelda will rarely ever be in a position to use them against her, espceially since she can safely recover through them with no risk of interception.

It isn't just an edguard, it's also used as a follow-up, and Zelda doesn't really have a particularly good defense against it.

Intercepting her up-b however... doesn't work at all.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It isn't just an edguard, it's also used as a follow-up, and Zelda doesn't really have a particularly good defense against it.

Intercepting her up-b however... doesn't work at all.

^this

as a follow up, Zelda has to airdodge, nair or nayru's it, and only airdodge reliably stops either. but against her recovery, it's absolutely useless.

Hopefully zelda realizes this and avoids such a position, but if not, yeah, we can't do much against it.

 

[Clai]

So I see you's doing ROB now? I really can't believe how many people are doom and gloom over this matchup, because I don't think it's that bad at all. Granted I've only faced about 3 ROB players ever, but judging from my ease in fighting them, I'd say that this is a matchup that Ganon doesn't have that much difficulty at all. Let me explain:

Approaching- ROB doesn't approach. Ever. Ever. If you see a ROB approach you, spam Warlock Punches because the likelihood of landing one is about the same as the likelihood that you find a ROB that approaches. Seriously, though, Ganondorf is going to do some major hustling to get to ROB because of its laser beam and gyro.

• Uncharged beams tend to get off a little faster than fully charged ones, so look at its head to find how charged the laser is. Spotdodging or airdodging (foward) the laser are your best bets.

• Now for gyros. Always shield them unless there is an attack that goes through them (dash attack, I think?). If you get between ROB and a gyro, keep extra-special attention to your spacing because he's just going to tilt you into that gyro all day long. If ROB is holding a gyro, camp him, dodge the lasers, and force him to throw the gyro. You can't afford to be worried about facing ROB's defenses while a gyro is coming straight down for you from the sky.

Short points: Dodge the lasers, shield the gyros, be cautious when ROB is holding a gyro.

Close Combat- ROB has a very good foward tilt and a great trip-tastic down tilt. In the air, ROB's back-air comes out very, very quick, has a sourspot, and gives it momentum away from you. Ganondorf has three types of grabs, a great down tilt, and the tip-man plus a good back air if he needs to use aerials close to the ground. Thunderstorming is awesome in this battle. My best suggestion for fighting ROB on the ground is to space with down-tilts, use short-hopped flame chokes if you think it's going to shield, and keep it honest with back airs and full-hopped neutral airs; thunderstorm works when you're both really close to each other.

• ROB's spotdodge to downsmash deserves its own section. You will see it a lot. It's ROB's favorite thing to do out of a spotdodge. What do you do against it? If he's facing you, wait for the spotdodge animation to run out (get a feel for the noise it makes) and spotdodge right afterwards. If it used down-smash, you get a free grab if you're close enough. I guess what it doesn't stop is ROB's neutral air and down-tilt spams, in which you could try other methods. If ROB's back is facing you, shield. That way you can guard either its down-smash, back-air or neutral air., whatever its style of use is.

Short points- Maintain your distance and stop freaking out about spotdodge-downsmash.

Aerial Combat- You don't want to be over ROB. ROB's up-air comes out fast and is a multi-hit adventure, and its foward air comes out quickly and can chain with itself at low percents. Luckily, Ganon's up-air outranges ROB's foward-air, so if you see ROB coming straight at you, up-air and make sure that it doesn't get close to you. If ROB's back is facing you, you know you're facing either a back-air or a neutral air, so DI away from it and airdodge because you are not getting through that fire. Remember that Ganon's neutral air comes out very quickly, so if ROB is trying to chain you, use it and get yourself out of there.

The best place to be is in front of and slightly below ROB. ROB can't do anything about it and you can up-air or even foward-air to your hearts content.

Off-stage- ROB can do anything offstage. Watch yourself when you're using aerials to recover because you will get hit in the face with a laser/gyro if you're not careful. When you're recovering, see what angle ROB is trying to get to you and dodge/attack accordingly. Sadly, ROB's boosters make WTFPWNSOME spikes impossible when ROB's recovering.

Verdict- The best news for you is that ROB generally cannot follow up its attacks with squat. Most stuff it does sends you away to the point where ROB can't get a string of attacks together. This then comes down to a war of attrition. Your powerful attacks are going to kill him earlier than its used to, which is excellent because you can't afford to not send him into the KO zone when it has that crazy recovery. If Ganondorf gains enough momentum, nothing that ROB has can quench that fire, so do whatever you can.

Dodge lasers, shield gyros, watch out when ROB spotdodges, don't do anything stupid off-stage and keep it cool. Remember, ROB is a camper, but one of the most reliable ways to stop a camper is with a tank.

FINAL SCORE 55-45 ROB, although I'm leaning more on 50-50. Ganondorf's punishment game is much more dangerous than anything ROB can put out. It's just a matter on if Ganon can breach the projectile defense system.

 

[hyperstation]

Rob's got the most brutal NAir in the game, can projectile camp to hell and back, has a gross BAir, and God recovery.

He's not as bad as a lot of other high tier match-ups, but these things I listed above can be a real annoyance.

 

[-Mars-]

Kalm, I love the idea of using videos to show the matchup in action............but vids from March are all crap.

One last thing on the Zelda matchup. Her OoS options are amazing. Bair OoS can just be devestating and at the height that Ganon is....one touch on our shield with anything but dtilt and your going to eat a lightning kick. Usmash, dtilt, dsmash, nair, and Naryus can all be devestating against Ganon.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

-Two important things about ROB. A thunderstorm or Tipman not only beats out ROB's DSmash but it also catches his Gyro in mid-air.

-DTilt. NAir and UTilt I find are the bane of Ganon's existance seriously once that ******* gets you with DTilt, Ganon has severe difficulty getting away. The problem here is that Ganon needs to get close in the first place. UTilt comes out disgustingly fast and NAir's trajectory avoids and punishes most approaches.

-Know this however if you ever catch a ROB lying on the floor he is basically good as dead. ROB is possibly the easiest Gerudo tech chase target in the entire game. His getup attack is pathetic and his rolls barely cover any distance. Seriously any half decent Ganon will get a minimum of 3-4 Gerudo's in a row.

-Knowing this, even better is EVERYTHING is guaranteed on ROB out of a ground Gerudo, iDA, FTilt, DTilt and Jab. Which means yes ROB is an easy FTilt/iDA finish. This is extremely important to know since with good spacing it means you can do a easy psuedo combo into a guaranteed finish if you play well.

-Although ROB can spam projectiles and camp, thankfully however Ganon has a fantastic spacing option available. SH BAir will hit ROB even without FF which makes the BAir in this matchup absolutely amazing as its actually reliable here.

-Likewise thanks to ROB's height even the first hit out of a FJNAir is always guaranteed to connect without being completely next to him. Also NAir catches ROB's gyro too, then again NAir is a strange creature. It outprioritizes Pit's arrows oddly...

-Tipper USmash's are very very easy to land on ROB, huge priority and IASA ensures you won't be too vulnerable. Plus ROB can't actually deal very well with attacks with a diagonal hitbox, FAir and USmash are two of these moves. Wario's and Jigglypuff's normally have to abuse this fact too since they have no reliable way of approach otherwise.

-And yes it means ROB is very easy target for tipman, though its not necessarily the best option.

-Know that ROB is very vulnerable from beneath even more than Ganon is any time you get him launched do not hesistate. He can't do **** to you until he at least gets eye level with you, simple UAir spam alone is enough to have ROB DI'ing and NAir'ing for his life in the air

In summary ROB will camp the crap out of you but due to certain quirks if you even get close enough to punish him. ROB has basically zero defense.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Kalm, I love the idea of using videos to show the matchup in action............but vids from March are all crap.

One last thing on the Zelda matchup. Her OoS options are amazing. Bair OoS can just be devestating and at the height that Ganon is....one touch on our shield with anything but dtilt and your going to eat a lightning kick. Usmash, dtilt, dsmash, nair, and Naryus can all be devestating against Ganon.

matchup over the ROB picture should be labled ROB instead of Zelda.

oh and I read the zelda matchup. that's nice. I'd definitely not lable spike V. Zelda amazing though, considering she teleports right past you unless she's an idiot, so you won't be intercepting her recovery with a spike. spike's only useable as a follow up.

I'm not sure what tip man is, so I can't say... but I can say that zelda lacks a good response to ganon's uair if they ar both aiborne

I wasn't quite finish witting the Zelda write-up, I was in a rush so I had to rush a couple of things.

 

[DRaGZ]

In summary ROB will camp the crap out of you but due to certain quirks if you even get close enough to punish him. ROB has basically zero defense.

Wait, wait, wait, wait...WHAT?!

R.O.B. has basically zero defense?! That's like saying Snake's mortar slide is a terrible approach.

R.O.B. is not susceptible to the f-tilt killing him unless it kills him outright, at which point his damage will be so high nearly anything will kill him.

You're never going to catch a R.O.B. lying down because R.O.B. always tech; there's just too much crap that can happen to them out of lying down because their hitbox is too freakin' huge.

B-air is next to useless if the R.O.B. even has an inkling of an idea of what he is doing. A tipped U-air is much better due to the trajectory and the n-air because of its unexpectedness and its speed.

Even if Ganondorf gets close, he has to be very crafty to get around R.O.B.'s inside defenses, which are very robust and effective. This is a huge uphill battle for Ganondorf at all lengths. The only place he finds himself comfortable is when R.O.B. is a medium distance above him where he can do something with relative safely, but even then R.O.B. has a lot of escape options because he'll move faster than Ganondorf can travel to keep up with him, especially if R.O.B. plays smart off-stage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey guys, I'll play your Ganondorf with my ROB just to prove that this matchup is not easy at all. It's definitely much harder than the likes of G&W if ROB plays right. You don't have as many combos on ROB (Flame Choke combos in specific). ROB also has a better spotdodge game that is difficult for Ganondorf to deal with, and he actually has attacks that outrange you. Not to mention his camping is significantly harder to deal with.

Gerudo is untechable....I thought someone said something about ROB teching.... O_o

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Hey guys, I'll play your Ganondorf with my ROB just to prove that this matchup is not easy at all. It's definitely much harder than the likes of G&W if ROB plays right.

Okay, not that I don't agree that R.O.B's hard match for Ganondorf, but I might as well fight.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I hope to see you Friday then. Can't play right now though cause I'm a little bit busy.

 

[Blad01]

30-70.

You won't never return on the stage vs ROB.
You won't approach without taking a lot of damages.
You won't kill him early.

You will combo and juggle him IF and only if you can get one Gerudo / Dair...
You will kill him easier with Fair, Dair, FSmash if you keep them fresh.

Oh also... Pick that gyro !

 

[Shadow Nataku]

You're never going to catch a R.O.B. lying down because R.O.B. always tech; there's just too much crap that can happen to them out of lying down because their hitbox is too freakin' huge.

Well it was more in the context of the FC. The second ROB gets nailed by it he literally has no options, its a untech'able move and hitting out just makes him an easy target to get his face planted into the ground again.

The FC's grab range is more or less equal to the distance he can cover rolling which is his only option. It means it requires a mistake on the Ganon users behalf for ROB to get clear. By all means that isn't even the only option a nicely space DAir can easily punish ROB as he gets up out of a roll.

Also for some of the faster fingers around here another option is a aerial Gerudo into a spaced tilted SS FSmash. Not guaranteed but extremely hard to defend against and not punishable.

R.O.B. is not susceptible to the f-tilt killing him unless it kills him outright, at which point his damage will be so high nearly anything will kill him.

Out of a Gerudo its guaranteed, Ganon finishes the move before you regain control. Not to mention I did clearly say its 'a option', truthfully most are probably just going to iDA you which kills far earlier since it sends you upwards and again is 100% guaranteed.

B-air is next to useless if the R.O.B. even has an inkling of an idea of what he is doing. A tipped U-air is much better due to the trajectory and the n-air because of its unexpectedness and its speed.

Actually BAir is much faster and stronger here when Ganon is trying to get into ROB's playing space. UAir is more of a retreat, anti-air or path blocking move. Ganon is forced to approach and you cannot Tipman approach and a upfront SH UAir relies on ROB taking to the air or overlapping with ROB and chances are we'd get DSmash'd. Point here is BAir is one of our fastest and strongest moves.

The reason its not used is its too high and misses most of the roster, ROB however is too tall. Ganon's only other real reliable approach options would be SH Dodges and shield walking.

This is a huge uphill battle for Ganondorf at all lengths.

Nobody said it wasn't. What does work against ROB however is resetting his momentum constantly and thats what Ganon specializes in when he gets the chance and ROB happens to be extra vulnerable to. In that respect it does neutralize ROB's defenses.

 

[DRaGZ]

Well it was more in the context of the FC. The second ROB gets nailed by it he literally has no options, its a untech'able move and hitting out just makes him an easy target to get his face planted into the ground again.

The FC's grab range is more or less equal to the distance he can cover rolling which is his only option. It means it requires a mistake on the Ganon users behalf for ROB to get clear. By all means that isn't even the only option a nicely space DAir can easily punish ROB as he gets up out of a roll.

Also for some of the faster fingers around here another option is a aerial Gerudo into a spaced tilted SS FSmash. Not guaranteed but extremely hard to defend against and not punishable.


Out of a Gerudo its guaranteed, Ganon finishes the move before you regain control. Not to mention I did clearly say its 'a option', truthfully most are probably just going to iDA you which kills far earlier since it sends you upwards and again is 100% guaranteed.


Actually BAir is much faster and stronger here when Ganon is trying to get into ROB's playing space. UAir is more of a retreat, anti-air or path blocking move. Ganon is forced to approach and you cannot Tipman approach and a upfront SH UAir relies on ROB taking to the air or overlapping with ROB and chances are we'd get DSmash'd. Point here is BAir is one of our fastest and strongest moves.

The reason its not used is its too high and misses most of the roster, ROB however is too tall. Ganon's only other real reliable approach options would be SH Dodges and shield walking.


Nobody said it wasn't. What does work against ROB however is resetting his momentum constantly and thats what Ganon specializes in when he gets the chance and ROB happens to be extra vulnerable to. In that respect it does neutralize ROB's defenses.

Oright, I didn't think you were meaning in the context of a Flame choke, although it'd be funny if you could actually ever connect the choke on R.O.B.

And my beef with the b-air is that it's extremely easy for R.O.B. to see coming (or at least it's very easy for me to see coming when I'm playing as R.O.B. against my friend's Ganondorf). I just shield grab or instant dash attack to u-tilt after shielding.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Oright, I didn't think you were meaning in the context of a Flame choke, although it'd be funny if you could actually ever connect the choke on R.O.B.

Ground version is definitely a royal pain to connect but the payoff is so high that its worth trying, high risk extremely high payoff. However aerial version is very easy to connect with it has a slightly bigger reach and grab box overall and almost lagless if Ganon misses.

And my beef with the b-air is that it's extremely easy for R.O.B. to see coming (or at least it's very easy for me to see coming when I'm playing as R.O.B. against my friend's Ganondorf). I just shield grab or instant dash attack to u-tilt after shielding.

Well the BAir is still 9 frames (I think) to come out but it cancels easily, is less liekly to be whiffed and comes out hard and fast and Ganon retains a good ammount of aerial control so it can spaced better. Truthfully speaking I think NAir is actually better tool against ROB since its faster and the first hit connects but its harder to get right and two choices are better than one.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

could i play someone from the ganon boards later today to help me determine the matchup? im leaning around 60-40 maybe 55-45 pika from playing K Prime's ganon, but i want to play a dedicated main first.

 

[Ussi]

o_O... Stealth you serious?... Pikachu CG's Ganon to 60%, throws him off stage with that. Commence edge guarding.

Course if he survives that then QAC away tjolt till he quits the match... if he can cancel tjolt.. find an opening...

idk.. I can't see Ganon really being that close in a match up to Pikachu.. ~_~ Stealth maybe record a match of yours? Maybe I can change my mind if I see a competent Ganon play a competent Pikachu.

 

[SaltyKracka]

o_O... Stealth you serious?... Pikachu CG's Ganon to 60%, throws him off stage with that. Commence edge guarding.

Course if he survives that then QAC away tjolt till he quits the match... if he can cancel tjolt.. find an opening...

idk.. I can't see Ganon really being that close in a match up to Pikachu.. ~_~ Stealth maybe record a match of yours? Maybe I can change my mind if I see a competent Ganon play a competent Pikachu.

I'll volunteer. I'm a competent Ganon, as Kinzer can tell you, but I'm no Kosk, and I don't have much Pika experience.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pikachu. Uh, it's about 65/35 Pikachu. I've played Tag's Pika before. I beat him on the AiB ladder, not that it really matters for the sake of the matchup though.

He has Thunder Jolts, which are gay. Fortunately you have attacks that beat them, but still, he makes you do stuff.

He has QAC which can make him really unnervingly fast. Personally, the way I deal with it is just by throwing out random Thunder Storms in hope one hits him and discourages him from using it again. Not that it's failsafe, but it's worked for me before.

Ganondorf survives forever against Pikachu as long as you don't get gimped by Thunder or something like N-air edgeguard.

Know your Flame Choke combos on him I guess. It's a pretty general thing, but it helps.

While he's recovering, just throw out a D-air or U-air in hopes that it will hit him. If it does, you score. It won't always work though if he's good at controlling his Up-B.

All in all, this matchup is annoying as hell because Pikachu camps a lot, has high priority on attacks, and he can be all over the place making him difficult to read and punish out of shield easily. He has all the tools he needs to make life miserable for Ganon, but he's just lacking a bit in some raw power, and you have attacks that outrange him which can give him problems on the ground (his aerials btw have bad landing lag, but they make up for that shortcomming by being difficult to challenge directly). If Pikachu were more significantly more powerful at scoring KOs or better at outright gimping, this matchup would be worse than 7/3.

Oh yeah, and don't get grabbed at low percents obviously. But fortunately for you he usually can't kill you instantly from his 0-60 chaingrab, but it does do a lot of damage right off the bat.

 

[M15t3R E]

I'll analyze the strengths of each character.

Pikachu: projectile, much faster (also QAC), combo ability, 0-60% CG.

Ganondorf: much stronger, can space fairly well, jab can stop many approaches, great spike

Okay, so vs. Pikachu be wary of that 0-60% chaingrab. Space with jabs and d-tilts. You can space better than Pikachu if you do it right.
Your ideal distance from Pikachu is just a tad bit outside of what most would call mid-range. You can jab his t-jolts and his QAC and his approaches.
Just be extraordinarily cautious and never rush in a good distance to try to punish Pikachu because it won't work.
You must space at all times, whether on the ground or in the air.
In edgeguarding, go for fair or your dair spike. You can actually edgeguard Pikachu better than most characters. But Pikachu can edgeguard you too very well. If the moment arises, don't be afraid to go for the flame choke kamikaze

I'd have to give this match-up 60/40 - 65/35 Pikachu.
It's not impossible for a Ganondorf to overcome a good Pikachu. It's just difficult. You must space very well and play intelligently.

 

[Tagxy]

I've played Tag's Pika before. I beat him on the AiB ladder, not that it really matters for the sake of the matchup though.

fyi i suck

 

[:034:]

I use Pikachu to counter D3... Basically all of this sounds quite right.

 

[studly]

this is just another one of ganon's poor matchups...


against any "good" pikachu players... ive found the lightning bolt particularly hard to get around with ganon...i feel helpless with only an aerial dodge

It's not impossible for a Ganondorf to overcome a good Pikachu. It's just difficult. You must space very well and play intelligently.

so i say that we ganon mains refer to a matchup of 80:20 against ganon as a neutral matchup since were so used to this kind of crap anyway

 

[Spyckie]

yeah to be honest I think Pikachu will be getting early kills due to the thunder, which nullifies one of Ganon's strengths.

So I'd put the matchup on 80:20 Pika.

 

[hyperstation]

QAC killaz. F*ckin' rapists.

 

[Blad01]

I play often with a Pika on AIB, and i agree with Mister_E. It's not an impossible match-up, so 35-65. Or maybe 30-70, but not 20-80.

In this match-up, don't put your shield up. Never. Be always in the airs, double-jump, use fake-out USmash and Aerials (to DTilt), predict QAC...
And that'll be good. :D

(Oh, so good to be optimistic )

 

[Tenki]

Why wouldn't you put your shield up? Well, at the least, shielding is a better choice than spotdodging and rolling in most cases. Jumping in this matchup might arguably be better instead of shielding though.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Why wouldn't you put your shield up? Well, at the least, shielding is a better choice than spotdodging and rolling in most cases. Jumping in this matchup might arguably be better instead of shielding though.

Ganon doesn't have options which are fast enough OoS, to punish Pikachu. As for spot dodging, most Ganon's don't know of spot dodge's IASA frames, it could be as fast and good as any other spot dodge if Ganons start canceling the end animation.

Bowser has the worst spot dodge.

Pikachu could duck below our Jab and grab... though I'm not sure.

 

[A2ZOMG]

yeah to be honest I think Pikachu will be getting early kills due to the thunder, which nullifies one of Ganon's strengths.

So I'd put the matchup on 80:20 Pika.

A good player almost never gets hit by Thunder. I will give that Thunder is safe to use, but it's telegraphed way in advance, so landing it on a good opponent is very difficult.

None of Pikachu's kill moves are very powerful or reliable, and Pikachu isn't that good at gimping either. This is why the matchup isn't THAT bad for Ganondorf. If Pikachu was significantly better at doing either, the matchup would indeed be 80/20 in Pikachu's favor, but this is not the case.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I find myself having difficulty with this match up a little but it's just difficult to get an attack out. I noticed that most pikachumps like to get in a rhythm especially with the QAC which if you stop focusing on where pika is coming from an where they end up it gets easier, not easy sadly. A quick dash attack is the best method next to Down tilt to kill pikachu but yeah, that thing about thunder, its easy to dodge when you aren't recovering, considering how Ganon can recover.
I'd say pikachu has the match 75-25 at most and 70-30 at least. haven't played enough pikachus cause getting good with the rat is possible it's just no much of a reward playing him except in casual

 

[Super_Smasher6]

2 things to know against pikachu:

- Ganon's down-tilt has better range than Pikachu down-smash!

- Ganon's forward-tilt has priority over Pikachu's skull bash (-->B), i love to kill him like that

 

[fonzi21]

I really haven't had time to read through every single post in this forum as there is 30 pages lol, but the matchup Thread shows we have a 60:40 matchup against jigglypuff? I am confused on this one. I understand we can kill her at like 40 percent, but my brother plays a good puff and spaces very well and makes it almost impossible to even hit her. She seems to out range or be able to just float around anything that I can possibly do. every time I play against him its not even close. I have tried everything. He just floats over or air dodges my F-tilts and IDA and jabs, and just attacks thrrough my gerudo so it is basically worthless unless you catch them with an aerial one, but the problem arise if you miss you get sleep'd or hit into a combo, and if I get hit off the edge its not even possible to recover I have tried everything to stop from getting combo'd out of the map or to, get back on the ledge from the puff wall of pain. Just combos me out of the stage then floats back. I have tried counter-picking stages to prevent myself from getting ledge guarded Easily, but it still doesn't seem to help as I can never land an attack on a properly spaced puff. I have been looking for guides or anything on how to fight a Well played puff but have yet to find anything. As for ledge guarding the tipman really doesn't do any good as it is very difficult to land even when doing the fastfall tipman, as well as the Dair. Any good puff can easily avoid those attacks and still recover. The F-smash is really the only thing that I am seeing that I could use to completely out range her because of its disjointed hitbox, but the problem arises if you miss you get punished so you can't spam it. Possibilities that I have tried are spacing with the Bair or the SH Uair, but I haven't tried it a whole lot as usually I am constantly pressured where I can barely even get attacks in.

Please if anyone has any info or Ideas please let me know. I will see if I can get some video's or something of how I play to post so people can see what I am doing and let me know what I am doing wrong.