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The Top Ten Videos of Each Character

DMG

Smash Legend
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DMG#931
How can I clarify further what "best" is?

"Best" should be where both sides demonstrated clear understanding of the matchup, and both sides used near optimal strategies without too many flaws made in game play.

If you get me a match of a Dedede vs DK where all that happens is Dedede infiniting DK, I WILL ALLOW IT if it seems clear both players understand the matchup (I'm not gonna let two run-of-the-mill players be nominated for matchups that severe/extreme.) There are plenty of matches where the "best" strategy was used, but you have to look deeper at the players as well to determine whether a vid is worthy or not. That and in the Dedede instance, a lot of regions have the standing infinite banned so even with tournament sets recorded you won't find the CG in too many vids because of that reason.

My goal for this thread is for the community to continuously come forward and provide recorded matches of game play, between two knowledgeable and skilled players, that are heavily pertaining to/representing the current metagame as accurate as possible.

As for campy matches, I DON'T CARE how much people whine and moan and grunt over matches that "are boring" or that "no one will watch". Since DAY 1 people talked about how campy/defensive Brawl is/would become. The game has been out what a Year and a Half or so and people are still b******* about this stuff? If someone nominates a video, and I truly think there is a clearly better alternative out there that has already been found/recorded, I don't give a rat's a** about whether I replace a cool video with a drop dead boring one. I'm looking for videos with the MOST TO TEACH about how to play characters properly, NOT the videos with the most entertainment attached to them.

Let's take the match of M2K vs Ally on Delfino and add it up here, cause that match certainly was not boring. In fact, most of you who watched the live stream/watched the recording for the first time creamed your pants when you saw Ally double Fair spike M2K into the Blue Waters.

BUT WHAT DO YOU LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT? WHAT DOES THE ASPIRING MK, LOOKING TO TAKE HIS GAME PLAY TO THE NEXT LEVEL, LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT AFTER COMING TO THIS THREAD?

But of course, we wouldn't know what that MK player is missing out on, since we discourage posting anything "boring" in here. :/
 

Boofy!

Smash Champion
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Since DAY 1 people talked about how campy/defensive Brawl is/would become. The game has been out what a Year and a Half or so and people are still b******* about this stuff? If someone nominates a video, and I truly think there is a clearly better alternative out there that has already been found/recorded, I don't give a rat's a** about whether I replace a cool video with a drop dead boring one. I'm looking for videos with the MOST TO TEACH about how to play characters properly, NOT the videos with the most entertainment attached to them.

Let's take the match of M2K vs Ally on Delfino and add it up here, cause that match certainly was not boring. In fact, most of you who watched the live stream/watched the recording for the first time creamed your pants when you saw Ally double Fair spike M2K into the Blue Waters.

BUT WHAT DO YOU LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT? WHAT DOES THE ASPIRING MK, LOOKING TO TAKE HIS GAME PLAY TO THE NEXT LEVEL, LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT AFTER COMING TO THIS THREAD?

But of course, we wouldn't know what that MK player is missing out on, since we discourage posting anything "boring" in here. :/
QFT

People are expecting a highlight reel for a match, while entertaining, doesn't exhibit optimal play. Which is what the title of this thread entails, albeit not specifically. lol
 

ph00tbag

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How can I clarify further what "best" is?

"Best" should be where both sides demonstrated clear understanding of the matchup, and both sides used near optimal strategies without too many flaws made in game play.

If you get me a match of a Dedede vs DK where all that happens is Dedede infiniting DK, I WILL ALLOW IT if it seems clear both players understand the matchup (I'm not gonna let two run-of-the-mill players be nominated for matchups that severe/extreme.) There are plenty of matches where the "best" strategy was used, but you have to look deeper at the players as well to determine whether a vid is worthy or not. That and in the Dedede instance, a lot of regions have the standing infinite banned so even with tournament sets recorded you won't find the CG in too many vids because of that reason.

My goal for this thread is for the community to continuously come forward and provide recorded matches of game play, between two knowledgeable and skilled players, that are heavily pertaining to/representing the current metagame as accurate as possible.

As for campy matches, I DON'T CARE how much people whine and moan and grunt over matches that "are boring" or that "no one will watch". Since DAY 1 people talked about how campy/defensive Brawl is/would become. The game has been out what a Year and a Half or so and people are still b******* about this stuff? If someone nominates a video, and I truly think there is a clearly better alternative out there that has already been found/recorded, I don't give a rat's a** about whether I replace a cool video with a drop dead boring one. I'm looking for videos with the MOST TO TEACH about how to play characters properly, NOT the videos with the most entertainment attached to them.

Let's take the match of M2K vs Ally on Delfino and add it up here, cause that match certainly was not boring. In fact, most of you who watched the live stream/watched the recording for the first time creamed your pants when you saw Ally double Fair spike M2K into the Blue Waters.

BUT WHAT DO YOU LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT? WHAT DOES THE ASPIRING MK, LOOKING TO TAKE HIS GAME PLAY TO THE NEXT LEVEL, LEARN FROM A VIDEO LIKE THAT AFTER COMING TO THIS THREAD?

But of course, we wouldn't know what that MK player is missing out on, since we discourage posting anything "boring" in here. :/
I don't know so much about what you're saying here. I've always felt like if both players are using the most optimal playing style, then the match will be interesting. I've rarely seen a campy match where I felt like both players were really playing well. Usually, it's that the losing player either could literally do nothing, or played terribly (either way there is nothing to learn from it for players of the losing character). The winner used a strategy that worked either because it outright shut down all of his opponent's options (in which case it should be such a commonplace strategy in the match-up that it never warrants being called the "best"), or because his opponent played terribly (in which case there is nothing for players of the winning character to learn). Those kinds of matches are always boring, because they either show mindless strategies instead of the character's metagame, or they show a metagame that is in fact not optimal.

What I'm getting at is, I don't think whole-match strategies that could be written on a flowchart should be displayed here, even if they shut down all of the opponent's options--especially if they shut down all the opponent's options. Write up the flowchart and put it in the match-up discussion thread on the character discussion board. It doesn't need a video here because the strategy can be taught without needing a full match to show it, and a full match showing it would, ultimately, be boring.

The kinds of things that need videos to be taught are the things that make videos interesting: at the highest level, almost all landed hits are the direct or indirect result of the hit player presenting an opening (either through their error, or through manipulation), and the attacker capitalizing on that opening successfully. These videos should show the kinds of openings that can be presented, and effective ways of capitalizing on those openings successfully, because these kinds of things cannot be taught any other way. And a match that requires finding one opening, then merely avoiding one's opponent for the rest of the match, will only teach that one opening, as opposed to another match that shows several types of openings, as well as manipulations and reads.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
****. Good job keeping my old thread running DMG. You're probably running it better than i ever was.
Hey no problem man. I know you kept this going for awhile, I see now that it's tough keeping up with all of the nominations flying around haha.

Also Phoot, part of the reason you might feel that at least one side of a match isn't playing so well when it involves camping is because of how strong it usually is. Let's be honest, I could take the best Snake in the world to Brinstar with Wario and time him out there. Even if he understood extremely well what I was doing, the fact is that there isn't much he as a player can do to combat that. Now, obviously this is a more extreme example compared to most matchups/stage and character combination's, but I think people would learn a lot from looking at some of the matches with extremities and hopefully understand WHY characters can have a huge advantage like that, and HOW to play like that for themselves.

As for the topic about explaining strategies on various character boards instead of adding a corresponding boring video with that strategy in play...

People have asked me many times, in person and over the internet, many questions about me vs Razer on Brinstar. People ask How I can camp that well, important things they need to know to camp like that, how to regain the lead, etc. And many times, I have tried to explain to them just about everything imaginable about those kind of matches. And most of the time, I cannot properly convey my thoughts and experiences about how to play gay like that. It's HARD explaining the very subtle things that are involved, like greater awareness of your spacing, understanding what your opponent is thinking, planning a step ahead of him, when to airdodge/weave away, when to sit still and wait, etc.

It's MUCH easier for me to Show a video where I play like that, point out parts in those matches and what is going on in my mind/what I am trying to accomplish. It also helps to showcase what you can Reasonably get away with and it gives you a more realistic, human insight into what REALLY will happen or is likely to happen compared to just playing theory craft on the internet. Honestly if I didn't have those videos of me on Brinstar, not only would I struggle to effectively convey how to do it properly, but a lot of people would question how well it works, or just shrug it off and say "You have no proof that you can get away with something that gay". With a good video up, I can Teach better, give credibility to the match/playstyle, and also refer back to that video/certain parts of it in later discussions.

Having "boring" matches listed should be INVALUABLE towards advancing the metagame, or at the very least getting everyone caught up with it. For example, you might find a way to better combat the camping after seeing a match, or you might find something to make it stronger. We would not have that luxury if we "shunned" videos that weren't exciting, or even make threads on the boards talking about how to play "boring" since I don't think those would serve the people as well as a video would.
 

ph00tbag

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I can see what you mean, DMG, but I still don't see why, when there are usually a whole lot of videos out there of high level play (at least with A tier characters and up), the elements of a boring strategy (gaining leads, proper spacing/zoning) can't be learned from a more interesting match where more than one way of playing is employed.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
I can see what you mean, DMG, but I still don't see why, when there are usually a whole lot of videos out there of high level play (at least with A tier characters and up), the elements of a boring strategy (gaining leads, proper spacing/zoning) can't be learned from a more interesting match where more than one way of playing is employed.
I accept ANY style of play as long as it is a good quality match with something good to teach players about how to play the characters well. However, if I am given two matches where one game they played campier and the next more aggressive, I'm more likely to lean towards the campier match, if only because the majority of the time camping is the best way to go in Brawl. Now that doesn't mean that an aggressive match can't "take my breath away" and be instantly included, but you gotta understand that with such a defensive game like Brawl that I'm probably gonna lean more towards campier matches if I think they will teach more/have more to offer than an aggressive match (has nothing to do with my personal passion to camp lol).
 

~ Gheb ~

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I assume that this is for the D3 section...although I don't think it belongs there because you pretty much ouplayed Seibrik imo. It actually shows how to play the match-up from MKs point of view. Aside from a few mistakes like too much SL in the beginning the only reason you lost was because of careless behaviour offstage. Other than that it's a pretty good example how you could beat D3 with MK.

:059:
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Yeah, and on a stage like BF you can get away with using Tornado more and just ending it on a platform away from Dedede. If he is in the center of the stage, or close to the platform you want to land on, you will have to be more cautious obviously.

Tornado also beats a lot of his get up options. Only thing that will beat Tornado is a well spaced aerial or occasionally his get up attack will hit you before you hit him.
 

Skyshroud

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The one currently up is DEHF vs M2K
Yeah, but several people already posted the DEHF vs Dojo match towards the end of the thread. Sorry if I can off like an ***, didn't mean too. I suppose not everyone checks the last couple of pages and this thread is moving quicker than normal.
 

ph00tbag

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I accept ANY style of play as long as it is a good quality match with something good to teach players about how to play the characters well. However, if I am given two matches where one game they played campier and the next more aggressive, I'm more likely to lean towards the campier match, if only because the majority of the time camping is the best way to go in Brawl. Now that doesn't mean that an aggressive match can't "take my breath away" and be instantly included, but you gotta understand that with such a defensive game like Brawl that I'm probably gonna lean more towards campier matches if I think they will teach more/have more to offer than an aggressive match (has nothing to do with my personal passion to camp lol).
While I would agree that defensive actions are generally stronger than offensive ones, I don't necessarily think that makes camping overall stronger than active play. In high-level matches, I increasingly tend to see defensive options (ranging from various shoulder-button actions, to attacks that are used primarily while on the defensive) used, not all-out offensively, but actively and threateningly, so as to force the opponent into making a decision. While this is not necessarily offensive, or even necessarily aggressive, I think you'll agree that it is certainly a more active style of play. I think if this kind of avenue were better explored, it would also be nice.
 

Flameleon

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 1, 2008
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285
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-Omgarz, my videos are being nominated.! haha, i'm happy, lul, well, about Boss vs Famous, i think than we, low tiers, must STOP playing dittos, because what we must do everytime is to get experience overall against all the chars, because, we need that most than any high tier out there...so, gg's x9-

P.D: recently, i have in mind to be one of the Marios in the "Best vidz" thread, so... : )
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Sorry, but I didn't find Flame's matches very great. Too many mistakes to be a top vid.
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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Aug 25, 2008
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Um...From the Mario?
At least in the vid I mentioned I don't see many.

The only thing I see is that they both have ****ty DI, but that does NOT take away from the top vids these are.

I never knew about Flameleon, but I know love him. I mean really, did you freakin watch that match I posted? It's sex
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
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Not the best Diddy I've seen, but that was still a great match, smart play, cape ending was too good.

Amazing range on that Usmash in the first stock.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
AZ you played good, but what was up with all of those Tornadoes from M2K? Some of them were very smart (after your second jump was gone using tornado to catch you before you landed/while you airdodged, tripping you with a banana and punishing the trip with tornado, etc), and some of them were just kinda dumb.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
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DMG#931
Well it looked like he anticipated AZ to be more aggressive, and 90% of the time AZ just probably scratched his head and shielded lol.

And yeah I will try to go to POUND, I need money to do that though.
 
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