The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

[HyugaRicdeau]

Ernesto, how are you going to find a "counter" for MK while he's banned? Friendlies?

Not to mention that it's a fruitless endeavor to try to label certain MK victories as "skill" and others as due to MK's "cheapness." That just leads to all sorts of cherry picking data. The only thing we can really look at is how often does he win compared to other characters. If MK is "too good" then he will win "too much." As it stands, he doesn't.

danm, you and mango were like my idols for jiggs! jiggs in melee for life!

LOL thanks, but I'm honestly not that good haha. King was much better than me...I was maybe the 6th best Jiggly at my best and everyone else's worst.

 

[DonQuixote]

Reading through this thread makes me greatly appreciate the SBR. If it werent for them nothing would ever get done. Im sure if it were just OS, M2K etc arguing this would be constructive and perhaps useful but instead there are tons of biased people screaming there idiot opinions. oh well. thanks SBR. :D

 

[swordgard]

Hyuga, the question is how much is too much?

 

[Player-1]

Learn 2 play diddy =)

 

[illinialex24]

Thank god, this saves Jigglypuff because they won't all go to G&W, Falco and Marth.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

Canada doesn't suck. Against our PR members KingAce does not spam tornado because...well it doesn't work, when we started out it did, but our top players can beat it easily now.

Also Canada has Ally.

i also heard that canada doesnt even use meta knight at all... lucky.

 

[Banks]

Hopefully this causes brawl to die altogether ^____^ LOL JK GUYS

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I think you killed all serious discussion.

That's good though, this subject needs to sleep for a while...

>_>

10 char

 

[Banks]

Lol Thanks, But I'm Honestly Not That Good Haha.

... *******

 

[AlphaZealot]

Possible new potential infinite on MK (and other characters). This is similar to waveshining, for that in theory you can reverse the person and head the other direction on a stage instead of just hitting them off the edge. This is also NOT effected by most platforms (BF/SV for example).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GzdTccsYc8

And they say new **** can't be found. Granted, it needs to go through the rigor of testing still, but at the very least it is a useful technique (even if you can't 100% get the lock) that could lead to stuff like this: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=yRTpdNIL_as

Should be a better, sicker video made by Hylian coming out soonish.

 

[Asdioh]

Reading through this thread makes me greatly appreciate the SBR. If it werent for them nothing would ever get done. Im sure if it were just OS, M2K etc arguing this would be constructive and perhaps useful but instead there are tons of biased people screaming there idiot opinions. oh well. thanks SBR. :D

.........................................what does your avatar say? It's too small to read...

>_>

10 char

I was wrong, unfortunately :/

Possible new potential infinite on MK (and other characters). This is similar to waveshining, for that in theory you can reverse the person and head the other direction on a stage instead of just hitting them off the edge. This is also NOT effected by most platforms (BF/SV for example).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GzdT...eature=related

And they say new **** can't be found. Granted, it needs to go through the rigor of testing still, but at the very least it is a useful technique (even if you can't 100% get the lock) that could lead to stuff like this: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=yRTpdNIL_as

Should be a better, sicker video made by Hylian coming out soonish.

Hopefully Diddy gets banned instead I haaaate fighting him

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Possible new potential infinite on MK (and other characters). This is similar to waveshining, for that in theory you can reverse the person and head the other direction on a stage instead of just hitting them off the edge. This is also NOT effected by most platforms (BF/SV for example).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GzdTccsYc8&feature=related

And they say new **** can't be found. Granted, it needs to go through the rigor of testing still, but at the very least it is a useful technique (even if you can't 100% get the lock) that could lead to stuff like this: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=yRTpdNIL_as

Should be a better, sicker video made by Hylian coming out soonish.

smh


it can lead to a 0-40% "combo" lol oh that helps.

Naner lock has been known, u just changed it...

 

[AlphaZealot]

You are missing the part where it may be possible to reverse it, so you nana lock them toward the edge, then nana lock them toward the opposite edge, then you just keep doing it back and forth. This technique has only been known for like 2 days, so we need further experimentation.

This is a single nana lock to, meaning there are far less prerequisites in landing it (though it takes far more technical skill then pretty much anything in Brawl).

And it is not "combo" it literally is a combo, because it actually is inescapable (at least the regular nana lock is, this one we needs further testing but it appears with ideal technical skill that it is, indeed, inescapable).

EDIT: had a bad link, this is the singe nana lock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GzdTccsYc8

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

smh moar....

 

[Discolicious]

You can't just tech that AlphaZealot?

 

[AlphaZealot]

You cannot tech a trip from a banana (or a trip at all).

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Im loving how MK is not banned now everyone is focusing on diddy now to counter so everyone can just say he is broken in the future.

Brawl is broken

 

[AlphaZealot]

Suspect: your posts make no sense. Essentially, a technique that mirrors waveshining from Melee is found...and you shake your head? This could really be a ground breaking move for Diddy if it pans out-that it still appears it could after two days is already amazing-and that this was found like 8 months after release? 6 months after everyone said nothing worth while would be found? Anti-Brawl people are very closed minded I guess.

 

[da K.I.D.]

we knew that brawl was broken when D3 started infiniting ppl

 

[Turbo Ether]

My friends and I always thought Diddy was/is the new Fox. Now he has a waveshine. Wow.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Suspect: your posts make no sense. Essentially, a technique that mirrors waveshining from Melee is found...and you shake your head? This could really be a ground breaking move for Diddy if it pans out-that it still appears it could after two days is already amazing-and that this was found like 8 months after release? 6 months after everyone said nothing worth while would be found? Anti-Brawl people are very closed minded I guess.

Im smh at the fact of people jumping on diddy now and bringing his AT's here as if "oh guys mk is not broken, this can help" There was no reason to post that here otherwise

And im not anti-brawl i do prefer melee but i still like brawl...just quite broken

 

[AlphaZealot]

Im smh at the fact of people jumping on diddy now and bringing his AT's here as if "oh guys mk is not broken, this can help" There was no reason to post that here otherwise

Well duh, the whole point is showing how a character like Diddy is actually quite powerful in the match up. The key to disproving the statement "MK has no counters or bad stages" is simply finding one character that is a counter or has some bad stages against MK". That said, I just think match ups have to be close, so long as MK has at least a handful of matches that are primarily determined by skill then all is fine.

I've been pointing out Diddy for like 5 months now...and this tactic happens to be incredibally new and possibly balance shifting for the match up if either the infinite turns out to be true or the free spike at the end turns out to be true (the spike is already confirmed against a few characters, the reversing of the lock is not).

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Ok so now the game has to be about MK and Diddy now? Brawls whole metagame is one big mess

 

[Count]

There really aren't people jumping to diddy anyway. And if you're trying to say AZ is, well that's just stupid. Most of the people that post on the diddy boards have been doing so for months.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Suspect, you don't seem to understand.

There simply needs to be one character to break the seal. If there is one character like Diddy that can defeat MK, then suddenly you have that character as a secondary to defeat MK and you don't have to buy into the logic that the only thing you can do to fight MK is switch to MK. On top of that, Diddy has many match ups that are not in his favor, meaning that if Diddy advances past MK's that it will be non-MK players that give Diddy trouble. All in all, having just one character, especially one not consider top 3ish, that can defeat the best character, opens up options for many characters/much more diversity in results.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its gonna be funny it you cant reverse or spike MK out of this, because if thats true, it will just be a 20% lock across the stage...

that sounds a lot like yoshi.
lolz
except yoshi has a follow up to his.

and by the way, just for the record, I bet you are all testing all these options on MK before any body else right?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

its gonna be funny it you cant reverse or spike MK out of this, because if thats true, it will just be a 20% lock across the stage...

that sounds a lot like yoshi.
lolz
except yoshi would have a follow up to his.

and by the way, just for the record, I bet you are all testing all these options on MK before any body else right?

Exactly, and you can tell because the video he showed had MK in it

 

[AlphaZealot]

No, it is being tested on many characters because the properties of what happens after a trip is not constant. For example, Luigi has a huge slide after his trip, so this technique does not work against him. Meanwhile, we know that if you get a Ganon/Snake to the edge of the stage and trip them with the right spacing so they fall off the stage, that you can in turn nana > dair spike them in a way that is unavoidable.

That said, of course MK is being tested thoroughly, it makes sense to test against the best character in the game-but even if it doesn't work against MK but works against other characters in the cast it is still useful, especially that Spike on Snake...thats just amazing.

 

[Master Raven]

Ok so now the game has to be about MK and Diddy now? Brawls whole metagame is one big mess

That's not much worse than four.

 

[da K.I.D.]

dang it, snake is supposed to be broken too...

this is gonna be annoying if it works in an actual setting ...

 

[RDK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GzdTccsYc8

So it's possible to just reverse the banana combo and continue it in the opposite direction? Like an infinite? Or eventually do you rack up so much damage that he flies out at some point?

In any case, this is cool. And also why I hate fighting Diddy.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Wait....dont tournies ban infinites? Or atleast to a certain extent.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Damage is irrelevant, trips will always go the same distance, the only exception is incredibly minute changes because of SDI (usually no where near an amount that would matter, at least for a regular nana lock, more research into this one needs to be done).

And yes, one thought is that this can be reversed, making it a true infinite (and an incredibly sexy one because platforms don't interrupt the combo).

Most tournaments limit infinites to 300%-only in the northeast are infinites weirdly limited at some tournaments-and it is usually just Dedede grab release infinites.

Part of the reason I was always against banning infinites is because a cool, difficult to perform infinite like Diddy's, may be found and would not have the impact on players mentalities the same way Dedede's does because it would be difficult to perform (and therefor not as common). Everyone has been saying it would be impossible for a difficult to perform infinite to be discovered at this point in Brawl, and while it isn't 100% confirmed, those people at the very least should now recognize you can't discover everything the month Brawl is released.

 

[BrawlLover]

yes, yes they do, and other things that are banned as well like MK's glitch move

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

If this can be banned then this is uber fail

 

[RDK]

Damage is irrelevant, trips will always go the same distance, the only exception is incredibly minute changes because of SDI (usually no where near an amount that would matter, at least for a regular nana lock, more research into this one needs to be done).

And yes, one thought is that this can be reversed, making it a true infinite (and an incredibly sexy one because platforms don't interrupt the combo).

Most tournaments limit infinites to 300%-only in the northeast are infinites weirdly limited at some tournaments-and it is usually just Dedede grab release infinites.

Perhaps if this is only effective enough to be used against MK, then Diddy could possibly move up to a favorable matchup with MK, or at least break even. What's the ratio for Diddy / MK matches right now?

In any case, maybe it'll stop people from *****ing about how cheap MK is.

As far as banning goes, just limit it to 300% like DDD's. Banning something that could do so much good for the metagame would be insane.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its funny that now people are complaining that we have to allow broken tactics, because they are one of the few things that can combat the broken character.

lolz

 

[AlphaZealot]

Yea, part of the reason I've always said it is dumb banning infinites is because, sometimes if you just leave things well-enough alone then it will turn out all right. Now you could have a situation where Diddy can infinite MK, but instead MK is banned and so is the infinite-simply because of poor decisions made before the game was really threshed out.

And I believe the MK/Diddy match up to be even and evolving in favor of Diddy, and this was my belief before the discover of the single nana lock/potential infinite.

Da_kid: was waveshining broken in Melee? It was inescapable until you were off the stage with most characters (and many times lead to shine spikes-probably 100% of the time against weaker players). Was the Ken combo broken? Performed correctly, it was also inescapable. What about Sheik's 0-50/100% CG against half the cast? What about waveshine infinites on RC/Green greens/etc. What about Falco's shine > Dair rinse and repeat + SHL for approaching? I think you throw around "broken" in place of things that are merely really good. Broken should be unbeatable.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Well now that, that tactic will probably be banned anyone else got any suggestions? lol

 

[AlphaZealot]

Why would it be banned? Most tournaments don't even ban the easy to perform Dedede infinite.

Is your argument: well, that maybe would counter MK, but I think people will ban it so we will never have the chance to find out?

Please, feel free to find 10 (heck, good luck finding 5) tournaments in the last month that banned infinites completely (out of like, 100 tournaments-just check Ankoku's list if you want to get started-I would bet most of the tournaments that ban infinites are in the NYC area as well).