The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

[adumbrodeus]

wtf is wrong with you?

Any character can lose to another depends on how good the person is.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

...

...

...

DIDDY DOES NOT LOSE TO MK!

NOT "a diddy player cannot win against an MK player".

When you say a character loses to another character, you're talking about MATCH-UPS, and he's expressing the perfectly reasonable opinion that Diddy Kong does not have an advantageous match-up against MK.

Sheesh

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

re-read what you wrote


and no one has an advantage match up against MK

 

[adumbrodeus]

re-read what you wrote


and no one has an advantage match up against MK

Good catch.

But the point still stands, he said that Diddy does not have an advantageous match-up against MK, not that a Diddy player cannot win against an MK player.

That means in a battle between players of even skill at the top of the metagame, the match-up is even or better for MK.


And you straw-manned him, acting like he was saying that a diddy player cannot win against an MK player. I'm sorry, but that's just not what he said.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

The way he said it seemed like "M2K you lost to NL (diddy) COME ON MAN MK DOES NOT LOSE TO DIDDY"

well obviously NL was the better player that day and m2k lost. Im also willing to beat NL will beat Inui.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

ok SBR. we'll just continue seeing spammy metaknights winning tournaments with only using tornado and shuttle loop, giving no other player that doesnt play metaknight a hope in actually winning against metaknight

 

[Master Raven]

ok SBR. we'll just continue seeing spammy metaknights winning tournaments with only using tornado and shuttle loop, giving no other player that doesnt play metaknight a hope in actually winning against metaknight

Show us evidence that this is actually happening.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Show us evidence that this is actually happening.

Actually, I saw KingAce do it once

 

[Master Raven]

Who was KingAce playing? As far as I know, anyone who does that where I live gets blown the **** up.

 

[The Real Inferno]

People wonder why I say Canada smash is bad lol. I could probably find the youtube of it given a little bit, but I'm a bit too lazy. You could probably just search for it.

 

[Mew2King]

if canada loses to tornado then canada is bad, or everyone there uses ddd dk ganon

ive ***** people with only tornado, but it doesn't work vs good people, unless they use one of those characters

 

[J.L]

canada is not bad =(

Kingace just got 9th in our most recent tourney lol

 

[ErnestoTheTrippyOne]

We could have a Meta Knight tournament. See how the Meta Knight mains do with that compared to their other tournaments. My prediction: They wont go very far.

Although I'd love to see what happens with Meta Knight still in tournaments. I've heard they've been losing more often than before. We'll find a counterpick eventually, I'm sure.

Meta Knight's greatest strength is his speed, and his small size combined with his range, which makes him a hard target to melee with, but I'm sure characters with projectiles would be a nice counterpick.

Pit'd be a great, considering he's almost fast enough to keep up with Meta Knight at close range, and has projectiles to keep MK at a distance. Samus wouldn't be too bad either, in my opinion. Although this might only sound good on paper.

Meh. Just food for thought. Om nom nom.

 

[J.L]

^ i dont think you know what you're talking about

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

i dont think so either

 

[Mr. Rogu]

Show us evidence that this is actually happening.

ok. my last tourney. i versed omniswell and all he did was spamming torando and shuttle loop.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

DMK ( a player here in texas thats on the texas rankings) spams tornado just ask espy(puffball)

 

[Master Raven]

Characters like Falco and Snake for example can shut that **** down quick.

 

[Ayaz18]

Canada is not bad, ace spammed tornado on SLIQ an american and was able to knock him out of the tournament and get 2nd place

 

[Overswarm]

Sliq also uses bowser.

 

[ErnestoTheTrippyOne]

^ i dont think you know what you're talking about

i dont think so either

Hey, I'm just going by what I've seen. It makes sense to me in theory.

Also, considering that a lot of MK players in my experience aren't exactly the brightest bunch, Green Greens seem like a nice counterpick stage. They seem to have trouble not setting off bombes.

Maybe it's just luck that so many of the fights I've watched point my theory to this. I'm going by fights I study, not tournament results.

 

[Serris]

Ernesto's actually on the right track. Samus works against Meta Knight, but using the tornado excessively can throw her off completely.

 

[RDK]

Hey, I'm just going by what I've seen. It makes sense to me in theory.

Also, considering that a lot of MK players in my experience aren't exactly the brightest bunch, Green Greens seem like a nice counterpick stage. They seem to have trouble not setting off bombes.

Maybe it's just luck that so many of the fights I've watched point my theory to this. I'm going by fights I study, not tournament results.

You're assuming that the majority of people who use MK and place well with him in tournaments will start placing not as well if everyone just up and used only MK in tournaments.

That's probably the stupidest reasoning I've heard all week. People who are truly good with Metaknight aren't magically going to lose just because everyone else decides to use him too.

 

[swordgard]

Sliq also uses bowser.

Kingace got in 5th at CH 4 guys XD

 

[ErnestoTheTrippyOne]

You're assuming that the majority of people who use MK and place well with him in tournaments will start placing not as well if everyone just up and used only MK in tournaments.

That's probably the stupidest reasoning I've heard all week. People who are truly good with Metaknight aren't magically going to lose just because everyone else decides to use him too.

No, I'm not suggesting that, and this isn't a reason to keep Meta Knight unbanned. It's simply to test our hypothosis. If MK really is as over powered as we believe he is, enough to give even some of the worst players the winning edge over the competition, then the MK mainers would all lose against the people with actual skill.

In other words:
If people only lose against MK because MK is over powered and has so few weaknesses, it would show. The unskilled MK mainers would simply lose against the pros that don't normally use MK, proving it takes no skill to use MK.

It's almsot the same as temporarily banning MK to see how the tournaments develop (idea thanks to Spadefox), except we'd be testing the average MK mainer's skills. This would prove that roughly all their previous wins with MK in other tournaments were all because he's too overpowered.

If I've left something unclear, feel free to lemme know, or correct me.

 

[RDK]

No, I'm not suggesting that, and this isn't a reason to keep Meta Knight unbanned. It's simply to test our hypothosis. If MK really is as over powered as we believe he is, enough to give even some of the worst players the winning edge over the competition, then the MK mainers would all lose against the people with actual skill.

In other words:
If people only lose against MK because MK is over powered and has so few weaknesses, it would show. The unskilled MK mainers would simply lose against the pros that don't normally use MK, proving it takes no skill to use MK.

It's almsot the same as temporarily banning MK to see how the tournaments develop (idea thanks to Spadefox), except we'd be testing the average MK mainer's skills. This would prove that roughly all their previous wins with MK in other tournaments were all because he's too overpowered.

If I've left something unclear, feel free to lemme know, or correct me.

But we're not even worried about those people, and neither should you, if you're not a whiny scrub who loses to scrubby, spammy Metaknights. Because I guarantee you those aren't the MK mainers who are winning tournaments en masse right now.

The only people you should be concerned with are the MK players with actual skill. In which case the situation is easily remedied: you can A) pick up Metaknight yourself as a secondary, B) find a character that's at least even or does not completely suck against him, or C) continue to lose.

 

[Mew2King]

people who go MK vs me usually get *****, and do better with their other characters, despite it being many tiers down often

 

[RDK]

people who go MK vs me usually get *****, and do better with their other characters, despite it being many tiers down often

That's my point. Going MK will not automatically make you a winner. Use the characters you're well adjusted to, and are actually decent with.

 

[Mew2King]

spamming will work against most people, but it's not going to get you top placings at any important tourneys. If you did, your region probably just sucks. Generic stuff gets worse over time in the long run, esp vs people that know what they are doing, ESPECIALLY when overused characters are doing them.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Canada is not bad, ace spammed tornado on SLIQ an american and was able to knock him out of the tournament and get 2nd place

Sliq also uses bowser.

Kingace got in 5th at CH 4 guys XD

king ace got his place ment probably doing this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G5VLmjS5eU

and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKQprvO58Q
it pisses me the hell off every single time i see him play...
i want to punch him when i see matches like this
regardless of whether he wins or not

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dude who cares, Sliq plays Bowser. He's heavy. Tornado works vs him. Like, wtf?

 

[Mew2King]

spam tornado vs me

 

[Sphyra]

regardless of whether he wins or not

Yet this is all that matters. If it works do it, and if it doesn't fix it.

 

[ErnestoTheTrippyOne]

But we're not even worried about those people, and neither should you, if you're not a whiny scrub who loses to scrubby, spammy Metaknights. Because I guarantee you those aren't the MK mainers who are winning tournaments en masse right now.

The only people you should be concerned with are the MK players with actual skill. In which case the situation is easily remedied: you can A) pick up Metaknight yourself as a secondary, B) find a character that's at least even or does not completely suck against him, or C) continue to lose.

Yeah, you're right, but I'm not looking to test the sucky MK mainers. I'm looking to test how badly over powered MK really is, by using the MK mainers that keep winning matches fair when the odds are even and all they have to rely on is their skill.

If the MK mainers have been winning so many matches based on their skill, and not on MK's cheapness, then MK mainers have nothing to worry about, as they have the same odds in a MK only tournament as they would in normal tournaments. Although I doubt this is the case.

If (or when) they all have their ***** handed to them, we would have proven that MK is cheap enough to give the MK mainers with no skill an unfair advantage on their competition. Enough of an advantage to give them a win they didn't earn, and deem MK worthy of a ban.

Personally, I think we should ban him for now and actually LOOK for a counterpick more aggressively, rather than waiting for one to show up in a tournament. That'll take forever, since half the time they're all uncontrolled match-ups with countless variables.

That's my point. Going MK will not automatically make you a winner. Use the characters you're well adjusted to, and are actually decent with.

I'm sure we can all agree that MK doesn't give everyone such a huge advantage that he's bound to win every one of his matches. Now, how much of an advantage MK gives the player is what we have to establish. Whether the advantage is fair or not.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

It's a good decision. Just like I thought, MK can be good or bad all depending on who you're playing against. If you have the right mind games and strategies, you can beat any MK. I've seen so many diddy players overpower MK players that it's almost ridiculous, and we still haven't explored the game enough to say that he should be banned.

 

[mirkdddlhppr]

Poor Wario.

Ah well, I guess.

 

[Sliq]

Tornado spam doesn't work. I played stupid.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

OMG just counter MK with Chuck Norris

 

[Mr. Rogu]

OMG just counter MK with Chuck Norris

i wish i could

 

[Mikey7]

Canada doesn't suck. Against our PR members KingAce does not spam tornado because...well it doesn't work, when we started out it did, but our top players can beat it easily now.

Also Canada has Ally.

 

[Asdioh]

OMG just counter MK with Chuck Norris

I think you killed all serious discussion.

That's good though, this subject needs to sleep for a while...