The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[M.K]

Well then since this is starting to become a Brawl v. Melee thing, let's steer discussion back on track.

I think this is a fairly accurate representation of things right now:
TOP: MK, Snake
HIGH: Falco, DDD, G&W, Marth, Diddy, Wario, ROB
UPPER: Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Kirby, DK, ICs, ZSS
MID: TL, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, Fox, Sheik
LOW: Ike, Mario, Lucas, Ness, Samus, Sonic, PT
BOTTOM: Yoshi, Link, Jiggs, Ganon, Falcon

In fact, I'd say this list is pretty perfect. They should make it v2.0.

PT does not deserve to be that low.
He's good, but his tournament placings are bad. At least put him top/mid of Low.
It's a good list otherwise, except for Lucas above Ness (WTF are you smoking?)

 

[TLMSheikant]

Well then since this is starting to become a Brawl v. Melee thing, let's steer discussion back on track.

I think this is a fairly accurate representation of things right now:
TOP: MK, Snake
HIGH: Falco, DDD, G&W, Marth, Diddy, Wario, ROB
UPPER: Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Kirby, DK, ICs, ZSS
MID: TL, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, Fox, Sheik
LOW: Ike, Mario, Lucas, Ness, Samus, Sonic, PT
BOTTOM: Yoshi, Link, Jiggs, Ganon, Falcon

In fact, I'd say this list is pretty perfect. They should make it v2.0.

Thats a pretty good list. But I think TL should be in low upper. And Ness should be above lucas. And yoshi should be higher and PT too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Jiggs is the worst character in the game and i've seen top-line Jigglypuffs.

top-line Jigglys? I didn't know there were any! If there were any...people wouldn't think she's the worst, which she obviously isn't.

Well then since this is starting to become a Brawl v. Melee thing, let's steer discussion back on track.

I think this is a fairly accurate representation of things right now:
TOP: MK, Snake
HIGH: Falco, DDD, G&W, Marth, Diddy, Wario, ROB
UPPER: Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Kirby, DK, ICs, ZSS
MID: TL, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, Fox, Sheik
LOW: Ike, Mario, Lucas, Ness, Samus, Sonic, PT
BOTTOM: Yoshi, Link, Jiggs, Ganon, Falcon

In fact, I'd say this list is pretty perfect. They should make it v2.0.

A list with Zelda > Sheik, Lucas > Ness and Marth 3 spots higher than ROB is not really perfect....

 

[Bomber7]

Well your guess is as good as mine but imo, if Pt starts to place higher in tournies and its not just Reflex, Typh, Steeler, and IRL pulling our weight and the the equivalant size of the PT boards starts to place around equally as high as these guys, I highly doubt PT will at all boost in his tier placings. plain out cut and dry, to the point and yada yada.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think that at this point all of the lolhitstun crap about brawl is just talk, and people still have that mindset that brawl is a bad game just because you cant combo people the same way you could in melee.

In melee, if you had the best techskill in the world, you could beat 90%+ of the dudes out there.
Because brawl is less technical and physically demanding, people think that something is wrong with the game. When its really not better or worse, its just different. Some people prefer a game with superior techskill, some prefer a game more based on prediction and mindgames. Either is fine, but im just getting tired of people bagging on brawl because of problems that were circumvented 6 months ago


And if people cant pull combos in brawl, it just means that they arent mindgaming hard enough.

What

the

****?

 

[Face124]

When is the new tier list coming out?

 

[ROOOOY!]

I..don't know why Sonic's that low Xivii
Prove ourselves more in tournies? I'm guessing being consistantly better then half the cast still merits in the bottom 7 of the game, yeah?

 

[tocador]

nvm i said cra*, so w/e

 

[Nestec]

Do we know whether or not this list will end with Low Tier again? And if it will have a million characters in Top Tier again? ;P

@ Face124: January 5th, I heard.

 

[Espy Rose]

I..don't know why Sonic's that low Xivii
Prove ourselves more in tournies? I'm guessing being consistantly better then half the cast still merits in the bottom 7 of the game, yeah?

Yeah, it's not so much that we're almost completely even with the likes of DK in tournament rankings.

No, no, we're gonna have to step it up harder.
Then maybe we'll get dead center of low.

This is exactly what I try to stay away from tier lists. No matter what you think as an invidivual- skilled or not-, your list sucks, and that's that.

 

[infomon]

EL: it comes down to a difference of opinion about what a "combo" is. I can't speak for KID, but I don't see why the technical definition of a combo around here seems to mean "an inescapable sequence of attacks" rather than simply "a sequence of attacks".

In Melee you were stuck in hitstun during a combo, sure, but you still had the flexibility of DI to try and escape; you're trapped within a sort of minigame, in which the attacker has an advantage, but there's nevertheless an active struggle, and "mindgames" do occur (to a fairly limited extent).

In Brawl, hitstun is much less severe, but more importantly it can be "escaped" with an airdodge or aerial. [*] However this isn't an immediate reset to a neutral-vs-neutral scenario; the defender does have limited options, and a good offense will continually force the defender into a sequence of bad situations. These Brawl "combos" may not be "true" combos.. but if every time I hit my opponent with a weak attack I know he's going to immediately airdodge, I'm going to smack him silly by mere prediction. If he's more intelligent, he'll be using DI, aerials, and airdodges, but as the offender I can try to force or bait the responses that allow me to continue my "combo". As far as I'm concerned, it's basically the same defensive minigame as Melee, just with more options for the defender... so IMO it can be equivalently considered a "combo" to string attacks until your opponent is able to return to a neutral position.

I've never understood the elitism that surrounds this "combo" word, so please explain, if I'm coming across as a newb somehow.

[*] I speak only for "regular" hitstun, I've heard about a weak type that has slightly different properties but I don't know much about it... w/e

 

[LumpyCPU...]

I've never understood the elitism that surrounds this "combo" word, so please explain, if I'm coming across as a newb somehow.

check this out then
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199342

 

[Emblem Lord]

What the ****?

***** I will hurt someone.

A combo isn't up for discussion or interpretation.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

LMAO LMAO
hahahahaha
i know, right?

 

[JesiahTEG]

What the ****?

***** I will hurt someone.

A combo isn't up for discussion or interpretation.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wow. Having come home from a crappy day at work, this made me feel like, 10000x better.

 

[infomon]

I've never understood the elitism that surrounds this "combo" word, so please explain, if I'm coming across as a newb somehow.

Just answer the question.

 

[pkblaze]

toon link will go up...kirby will go up(he is one of metaknight's most even match-ups, and maybe PT if his mains feel devoted... bowser will go down, and meatknight(yes, meatknight) will be promoted to god tier and join mewtwo IF we don't un-ban some of his worse stages, as counter-picks atleast. i want my S.M.I. back!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Play Street Fighter 2.

Do jumping roundhouse to crouching roundhouse with Ryu.

A message will pop up that says 2 hit combo if it connected properly.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

What the ****?

***** I will hurt someone.

A combo isn't up for discussion or interpretation.

Sigged.

Play Street Fighter 2.

Do jumping roundhouse to crouching roundhouse with Ryu.

A message will pop up that says 2 hit combo if it connected properly.

And I officially like you now, Emblem Lord.

Smooth Criminal

 

[infomon]

I don't see why the SF2 engine's definition of a combo is more relevant to Brawl than the one I described. Those "true combos" barely exist in Brawl; I specifically acknowledged that. They're hardly relevant at all to actual matches, nor most discussion about Brawl's mechanics. Instead we often talk about chains of attacks that can be conveniently strung together, keeping the opponent in a bad position in which they have few options to respond, and/or these options are predictable and punishable by particular follow-up moves. It would be silly for us to constantly refer to these as uhh "difficult-to-escape attack chains" or some such. Instead we adopt the casual, obvious terminology and call it a combo. Brawl combo =/= SF2 combo, QQ.

Get over yourself. This "brawl definition" is adopted in pretty much all the discussions here about Brawl, except when Melee ppl pop in to say they think Brawl sucks, which has gotten really old. Our usage of the word is perfectly reasonable and self-consistent, except possibly in some extremely technical discussions where the distinction between "true combos" and "practical combos" becomes relevant.

 

[Espy Rose]

What the ****?

***** I will hurt someone.

A combo isn't up for discussion or interpretation.

Play Street Fighter 2.

Do jumping roundhouse to crouching roundhouse with Ryu.

A message will pop up that says 2 hit combo if it connected properly.

Every day, I read at least one ******** post by someone.
...and here I thought today might be different.

Oh, and in case you couldn't figure it out, I'm pretty much in full agreement with Infzy on the subject of "combos".

 

[Emblem Lord]

All you described was putting your opponent in a bad position.

Brawl has alot of that. Just call it a trap scenario. Since ya know...those are in SF2 as well.

lolz.

puffaballz: That's nice. I guess. Sorry, I'm trying really hard to care, but it's not working.

I think I'll just act pretentious instead.

Fawkin noobs.

Yeah, pretentious is the way to go. Alot more fun.

 

[da K.I.D.]

***** dont you call my boy a *****, i will kill you...

and fizzie, thank you for the detailed definition, thats exactly what I was trying to say.

and i love how people hang around this word combo.

last I heard combo was short for combination. As in combination of successful attacks. As in whether its inescapable or not, if its a sequence of successful attacks, its a combo.

ELGTFO

EDIT:
I <3 u puffy.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I will lay it out for you.

A combo means you can't avoid the next hit.

That's it. There is no open for interpretation.

It's not an open ended plot point here in an RPG that leaves unanswered questions.

It's a ****ing game mechanic.

Get over it plz.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/combination
says you are lying,

thats why in all fighting games theres are combos and garanteed combos

what god changed the def. of the word?

 

[infomon]

Oh goodie! EL finally contributed. It turns out he's just obsessed over a minor technicality. Meanwhile the general Brawl community moves forward with its self-consistent and painstakingly obvious terminology.

Yes, words often have multiple definitions, sometimes they're even inconsistent with each other, so you select the definition that's relevant to a particular domain. Brawl combos =/= SF2 combos, and in SF2 it's much more relevant to make the distinction between combos and traps, whereas in Brawl to do so would mean we're only ever talking about sequences-of-trap-scenarios. "Hey look I found a new sequence-of-probable-trap-scenarios!" That's horrendous and verbose, and the technical distinction is irrelevant for Brawl gameplay, and we have a large community that's already content using the word "combo" in the way that's most convenient and relevant. So get over it.

You came into the convo with a petty spam comment because you're so elitist about terminology that you chose not to interpret KID's post in the way that was obvious. You get over it plz. kthxbai

 

[Emblem Lord]

I didn't make a spam post.

Which is saying alot since that's all I do since I'm so bored these days.

You made an inquiry and I answered albeit in a very elitist manner although I really wasn't trying to be.

I just post that way.

Although that bit with puffball was intentional.

Anyways, you guys are pretty cool in my book. Don't be afraid to challenge someone. Although telling some to gtfo is somewhat childish.

Also I still think you're wrong.

But my boredom has subsided and you have served your purpose in amusing me.

Carry on.

 

[kupo15]

I agree with EL that the term "combo" in any fighter is a sequence of attacks that connect in which the opponent can not escape. What we have in brawl is not a combo...but a juggle which is a form of comboing.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol, this is just like what happened with umbreon.

EL is still a chill dude, just tactless sometimes... which seems to be running theme in this forum

 

[DTP]

Wow, every one seems tobe attacking Emblem Lord. What did he do?
*Goes back though previous posts and checks*

 

[da K.I.D.]

I "combo" is a sequence of attacks that connect in which the opponent can not escape.

a juggle which is a form of comboing.

WTF?

udoinitrong

 

[kupo15]

WTF?

udoinitrong

says the person who changes ppls posts....real cool...

 

[Tenki]

well.

I think everyone should just drop the semantics and such.

Regardless of what word infzy/KID/etc use for it, whether it's juggle, combo, trap, or blardesfhargen, they're referring to a successful volley of fluid consecutive hits performed on an opponent. Whether or not it's escapable, that's what it is. I'm sure all parties involved here can understand that 'brawlcombo' or whatever doesn't necessarily fit the traditional idea of 'combo' (inescapable volley of consecutive hits), and I'm sure they should have an idea of what they're talking about regardless.

Just be glad it's not this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5642534#post5642534
from posts 46-53.



-----------------------------
now back to teh tier discussion.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah. I was tactless. Mostly because I don't give a ****.

You have NO idea how boring and frustrating it is to walk into a thread and say something and have people bow down. I mean it's good for the sake of the community when people listen to someone more knowledgeable, but for me it's so...different.

This is a guy who used to fight tooth and nail to prove his point. It's like I've climbed the smash hierarchy and now I don't have to work for it anymore.

Starting drama is the only way I can amuse myself now.

So, yeah. Points to you guys for sticking to your guns.

As your reward...I won't debate you into the ground as to why why I'm right.



But no seriously, I'm mostly not doing it because as it was previously stated it really doesn't matter.

Anyone with half a brain knows that true combos are few and far in between in Brawl and trap scenario doesn't exactly roll off the tongue now does it?

So I suppose as long as everyone knows what we all mean when we say "combo" then who gives a ****, am I right?

 

[Espy Rose]

I agree with EL that the term "combo" in any fighter is a sequence of attacks that connect in which the opponent can not escape. What we have in brawl is not a combo...but a juggle which is a form of comboing.

As Infzy just stated, the definition of the term is ridiculously subjective.
Infact, Sirlin himself says that a combo is a sequence of attacks that are inescapable.

But who's honestly to say that Sirlin's definition is absolute? (Other than the Sirlin fanboys of course).

I just don't see why whenever the word "combo" comes up in a sentence pertaining to Brawl, there's always the incentive to say something along the lines of "No combos in Brawl".

lol, this is just like what happened with umbreon.

EL is still a chill dude, just tactless sometimes... which seems to be running theme in this forum

This.

Oh, and no hard feelings EL, you're a pretty cool guy.
That one post you put up was just silly, and I had to do something about it. It's just the way I am.

Also, my post wasn't meant to be aggressive or whatnot, but if it came off that way to you, then apologies abound.

To your last post: Glad that's all figured out then. Cheers.

 

[infomon]

Just be glad it's not this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5642534#post5642534
from posts 46-53.

Oh no, not that again

Anyone with half a brain knows that true combos are few and far in between in Brawl and trap scenario doesn't exactly roll off the tongue now does it?

So I suppose as long as everyone knows what we all mean when we say "combo" then who gives a ****, am I right?

Right, that's what we were saying all along, since you started all this shinnanigans by (intentionally?) misunderstanding what KID meant when he said "combo".

<3 EL

 

[da K.I.D.]

says the person who changes ppls posts....real cool...

fine, ill get the same result and not change one word of the post.

I agree with EL that the term "combo" in any fighter is a sequence of attacks that connect in which the opponent can not escape. What we have in brawl is not a combo...but a juggle which is a form of comboing.

lol

uSTILLdoinitrong.


and EL is trufax

and i think its hilarious that marths pole jock you as much as they do...

 

[infomon]

and i think its hilarious that marths pole jock you as much as they do...

.... it's similarly hilarious how us Sonic mains all got flocked together in this, too

/spam

uhhh... tier-list discussion... uhhhh.... Sonic 4 top tier

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Lol.

>_>

I still don't like the definition of a combo in Brawl. But I digress.

Sonic for bottom; Fox for high.

KID for...president.

Infzy for...secretary of state.

Puffball for...secretary of defense.

And EL for...King?

Smooth Criminal

 

[da K.I.D.]

im down with that...

also sonic is a better character than fox.
he was broken in melee, but the fastfalling thing gave everyone else a chance.
hes mediocre in this game and the fastfalling just gets him ***** now...

if you want to know where sonic should be, check the sig son...