I hope Sonic falls to 37th place eventually.Lol I hope DK falls to 37th place eventually.
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I hope Sonic falls to 37th place eventually.Lol I hope DK falls to 37th place eventually.
That would still be too good for him.I hope Sonic falls to 37th place eventually.
Yes but the immense amount ofC Tier? Seriously!? With that crazy chaingrab of his he's gonna have his own Inui tier.
The number of good ZSS players has barely changed, if at all, from a year ago.So just because she moved up a few spots means the pattern will continue?
What makes you believe she'll be higher?
Sonic was like bottom 5 in the first tier list, and now he's 13th worst. Does that mean he'll take 12th place next tier list?
ZSS has reached her peak. It's either downhill, or no movement from here on out.
This list fails to show the gap that divides MK from Snake, and both of them from the rest of the cast. Aren't tiers supposed to be groupings of characters belonging to similar levels of play? That isn't what this shows at all—the common Smasher won't pay any attention to the actual data at the bottom—data, which isn't minutely reflected in the preceding tier list.. . . while characters in Tiers B through F may be, to some point, considered near each other in level when in the same tier, the same should not be applied to those in Tiers S and A. Meta Knight was overall voted better than Snake, who was overall voted above Wario, who was overall voted over Falco, and so on.
How do the scores 6.21 and 1 constitue being in the same tier?1 Meta Knight
...
6.21 King Dedede
When those four characters start winning as many tournaments as #1 & #2, let me know—they're in the same tier.. . . Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, and Dedede were deemed strong enough characters to join S Tier.
It's even, 50/50. The only reason the IC boards consider it in Link's favor is because bombs get us out of the infinite. Whoohoo....any IC that knows how to do anything besides infinite will have the advantage on him. It's just that most of the IC know how to infinite and nothing else, so they consider it in our favor.there are characters in S and A tier that lose worse to other characters. Educated yourself. Diddy vs Peach, Diddy vs Luigi, Ice Climbers vs. Link, (actually Diddy vs a good portion of mid tier) Dedede vs Zelda, ROB vs Fox, Wario vs Peach, and those are just off the top of my head.
Diddy doesn't lose to Luigi, that is a misunderstood matchup (actually a lot of Luigi's matchups are misunderstood by one side or the other). I've talked to ADHD myself and after some discussion I think we both agreed that Luigi actually loses to Diddy. I've talked to other Diddy's and they think they jumped the gun on Luigi.ZSS' matches with Luigi and Sheik are annoying, but there are characters in S and A tier that lose worse to other characters. Educated yourself. Diddy vs Peach, Diddy vs Luigi, Ice Climbers vs. Link, (actually Diddy vs a good portion of mid tier) Dedede vs Zelda, ROB vs Fox, Wario vs Peach, and those are just off the top of my head.
Data, which is based entirely on averaging votes. Time and again I've noted the problems of attempting to objectively handle numbers which were reached entirely subjectively. Yes, completely disregarding data is bad, but letting numbers rule your decisions entirely isn't much better.This list fails to show the gap that divides MK from Snake, and both of them from the rest of the cast. Aren't tiers supposed to be groupings of characters belonging to similar levels of play? That isn't what this shows at all—the common Smasher won't pay any attention to the actual data at the bottom—data, which isn't minutely reflected in the preceding tier list.
When the possible scores range from 1 to 13, I'd say being in the top half isn't terribly unwarranted.How do the scores 6.21 and 1 constitue being in the same tier?
Forget about the characters, how are those numbers even considered close enough to be placed together?
No. It's 55:45 in our favor and that's being nice. I don't think many (good) ICs think it's in Link's favor. Blah, I need to update that OP ASAP.It's even, 50/50. The only reason the IC boards consider it in Link's favor is because bombs get us out of the infinite. Whoohoo....any IC that knows how to do anything besides infinite will have the advantage on him. It's just that most of the IC know how to infinite and nothing else, so they consider it in our favor.
God**** I wish I had female parts so I could have your babies.The number of good ZSS players has barely changed, if at all, from a year ago.
If those players have been enough to boost her tier position, yes, I think the pattern will continue.
Anyways, tier debates are meaningless. A 'tier list' is decided the moment a game is finalized in the sense that how good a character is, in the full metagame the game has to offer, is never going to change; lists like this are merely what we believe to be the closest to that exact potential each character has.
All that matters is results, your interpretation is useless.
I know the matchup as a Rob secondary...give me a legitimate reason why the matchup in robs favor please..ROB vs Fox is... probably ROB's favor. I say probably because even though I think ROB wins the matchup, I don't want to underestimate Fox as a character.
This. I'm satisfied with the place Wario has, and I knew Falco had been hit a bit hard.Best tier list yet!
Why should King Dedede be there? Huh?wario took falcos spot huh that makes no sense DDD should be there
Thanks for the reply. My point was just that you can have disadvantageous matchups vs low or mid tier chracters and that doesn't make you inviable, cause those matches aren't really showing up very often anyway.I also don't think ZSS actually loses to Luigi, I don't see that matchup being even either but that's just me. I could understand Shiek being tough though, she's underrated.
well it might be because i play as donkey kong but he can chaingrab 90% of the characters in this gameWhy should King Dedede be there? Huh?
Dedede has some great matchups but he also has bad matchups scattered throughout the tier list.well it might be because i play as donkey kong but he can chaingrab 90% of the characters in this game
Well having a purple name/being fairly well known does help out with that haha, but yeah a lot of the negative character fanboyism (Yoshi isn't low tier, Sonic is Steak tier, U people are idiots for putting Ness in low Tier, etc. No offense to you other character mains out there) has died down, including some of the Wario fans who were disappointed in the past. Time has given us some lovely insight into the roster though, and people are more willing to agree on a tier list as a whole the longer the game's been out (although understandable we will still have debates over a few individual spots).While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said about Luigi, Dr. Mario Guy, I also can't help but think that if someone had phrased those exact same arguments against Luigi on the previous versions of the tier list, they would have been either mercilessly flamed or ignored outright. (Not by you, but in general.)
Well, better late than never!
Well on the Ground, I would say ROB has the advantage. Ftilt for ROB, IMO, looks like a very useful move vs Fox. I'm pretty sure it has more range than anything Fox had, and if you tilt it up it can quite nicely stop most of Fox's SH approaches. ROB has a little more grab range than Fox, I'm not sure if ROB has a faster grab or if they are the same speed.I know the matchup as a Rob secondary...give me a legitimate reason why the matchup in robs favor please..
I agree, to a certain extent. Having some bad matchups vs low or mid tier characters doesn't necessarily make a character useless, but it does still affect them negatively.Thanks for the reply. My point was just that you can have disadvantageous matchups vs low or mid tier chracters and that doesn't make you inviable, cause those matches aren't really showing up very often anyway.
Hmm, I'll talk to Snakeee about it. I think she has the advantage over him, or at the very worst even, but there haven't been very matches to prove it either way.The ZSS vs. Luigi matchups is kind of nebulous. Snakeee says we lose; that's all we've really got to go on, because there haven't exactly been a ton of ZSS vs. Luigi high-end matches. I do trust Snakeee's opinion, though, because he's typically unbiased and honest. So I'll take his word for it. It's the fast aerials, specifically neutral A, that allow him to combo us and break out of many of our "combos."
As for Sheik, many Sheik mains I've talked to say it's even, but I don't see how at all. Sheik is a pain for ZSS, imo, there's no doubt about it from my perspective. That needles are annoying, very annoying because ZSS has no true long range options, so we have to approach. It's uphill for us, definitely not even, but not horrible either.
As for 1: cool, I talked to him about it tonight a little bit myself. He says that he thinks ZSS/MK is close to even now ("I think meta hardly has any adv at all again") but didn't comment much on Luigi.Hmm, I'll talk to Snakeee about it. I think she has the advantage over him, or at the very worst even, but there haven't been very matches to prove it either way.
As for Shiek, I can see her having a small edge overall on ZSS. Nothing too major.
Liar. You're not a panda at all.I'm one happy panda.