The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

[∫unk]

i'm going to give really general advice because 1) i don't main marth 2) i want to cover a lot of videos

@ sake - stop doing the same thing and mindlessly throwing out something you're not sure is going to work. almost every time you tried a mix up you sacrificed your spacing. be more on point with punishments.

@ dube - okay the 2 i clicked on were both b+ videos, but you still do the same thing even though it's brawl+. never repeat anything (like rolling back) in a predictable manner. if you see a pattern with your play, i guarantee you a strong opponent will as well.

@ salsa - you gotta play a better opponent. you have a spotdodging habit and basically just hit A and the direction your opponent is in when he's in range, but you're not really getting punished for it. try not to repeat anything twice in the same situation (even if it's vs an inferior opponent and it's working); it teaches you bad habits and limits your knowledge on available options.

@ marc - you have to learn how to buffer everything. right now your buffering is basically nonexistent... fortunately that's easily fixable in training mode or vs a cpu. constantly try to move/do an action vs a cpu while tipping everything and you're on your way.

@ steel (and clow) - both of you just need to fight each other a lot more. learn the options in close combat situations. it'll also make both of your follow up games better (you both pull back unnecessarily). get your hands dirty!!! you both know how to be safe now. both of your grab games in particular need to be a lot better.

 

[Steel_Samurai]

Thanks for the advice junk

 

[salsa~]

thanks, junk.

 

[painlord k11]

eh I just did what works on my specific enemies , pretty good doubles match here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svA5huHr9OY and the flaming starts in a click of my button

 

[Haptic]

Time to start getting some critique! Here is a 3-match set from a Smashfest I went to this past Saturday:

Leaf (Pikachu) vs. Haptic (Marth)

Going back and watching my set, there are a lot of faults I notice myself, such as...

1. I commit to DB too much.

2. I am very predictable with my recovery.

3. I don't grab enough.

... but I know there is much more than that for me to improve on! I just started playing Marth again 2 weeks ago, so any help is much appreciated! A few more matches against different players were recorded, and I will post them here as well if they are uploaded.

 

[clowsui]

your problem has less to do with committing to things and not doing enough things or doing things wrong so much as it is that you don't know how to attack or defend properly

a lot of issues in those matches had to do with you not having adequate control over your character and not being able to precisely strike him as you wished. you were in the appropriate positions/scenarios to attack a lot of the time, which is good, but you didn't strike. you also have a spotdodge issue and an approach issue (always using fair and short hopping way too much)

 

[Reizilla]

Do the ZMT all day, baybeeee. Pika can't outcamp you

 

[clowsui]

People seem to misunderstand the idea of the ZMT, which is playing defensively and throwing out as many hitboxes as possible in a safe manner lol. The ZMT isn't effective vs Pikachu, unfortunately, cause the rat has tjolt.

 

[Haptic]

your problem has less to do with committing to things and not doing enough things or doing things wrong so much as it is that you don't know how to attack or defend properly

a lot of issues in those matches had to do with you not having adequate control over your character and not being able to precisely strike him as you wished. you were in the appropriate positions/scenarios to attack a lot of the time, which is good, but you didn't strike. you also have a spotdodge issue and an approach issue (always using fair and short hopping way too much)

I forgot about this, but I did realize that I have a spot-dodge issue. This is probably because not too long ago, I didn't implement the spot-dodge into my game at all, and now that I've "discovered" it, I've gone a little mad with it. I'm assuming that in a lot of the defensive situations I was put into, simply shielding or shield-grabbing would have been better?

About the approaching issue, saying I approach with sh.fair too much (or were those two seperate points?)... what are some other options?

Please keep the criticism coming! I'm attending HOBO 27 this weekend and have a strong desire to improve before then.

 

[clowsui]

w/ regards to the defensive situations: you could've shielded, shield grabbed, landed away, or just avoided those situations in the first place (though that's not very helpful to say lol)

SHNair, full hop fair (if they're jumping), dtilt, just walking up and grabbing is also good too. just try things out, change it up. even just changing the timing of your fair or the spacing is a different style of approach. DB is also an option on approach, used sparingly.

btw you seem to face the wrong direction a lot, you need to fix that lol.

some more issues you have have to do with patience. it's easy for pikachu to get into bad positions against marth, he has to space around you usually not the other way around so if you wait for him to mess up sometimes it's more rewarding then just charging in. kprime vs. nike is a good example of this, on ozz's channel, vs. pikachu specifically. nike is very patient when kprime is on the ledge and chooses to react to kprime's options while also limiting them occasionally. he also puts himself in good positions and swings his sword precisely and doesn't sweat it if he doesn't get the immediate advantage, it's solid play vs. pikachu. some things i feel he could've done better but a good reference pt

 

[Nike.]

Like what?

 

[clowsui]

wow nike with the name search LOL

hold up lemme watch those vids again and i'll get back to you tomorrow, class at 8:30 lol

 

[Nike.]

Naw, I'm just subscribed to this thread hoping somebody will critique me lol.

 

[HyL!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQW7_yvo5F0

my friend just picked up marth, after his secondary got dominated at mlg, so he's trying out marth, wanted me to ask for a critique for him since he has no idea how to work SWF, any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Haptic]

btw you seem to face the wrong direction a lot, you need to fix that lol.

Just something I realized while watching my matches again: If you are referring to the multiple times that I baired away from him, those were actually me trying to do nairs. I was having controller issues that whole night. In the other matches that were recorded, (if they're ever uploaded) you can see me sh.dair straight into the ground a lot, which was also actually me trying to sh.nair. My controller seemed to like getting stuck on directional inputs. I'll be using a different controller at the next events I go to, unless my current one starts working better.

kprime vs. nike is a good example of this, on ozz's channel, vs. pikachu specifically. nike is very patient when kprime is on the ledge and chooses to react to kprime's options while also limiting them occasionally. he also puts himself in good positions and swings his sword precisely and doesn't sweat it if he doesn't get the immediate advantage, it's solid play vs. pikachu. some things i feel he could've done better but a good reference pt

I looked those videos up and that is some nice Marth play, Nike. I had never seen any of your videos before because I'm stuck in my ways and have only been watching Mike and Roy videos, but you are definitely a role model to me now.

 

[Leon94]

My money match against calzorz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVFKaXihZQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BztWc9-XHuw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQmBQHMyFZU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPjCQaATb14&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOzf7bVg6Aw&feature=related

 

[ChibixD]

lol...
Its's hard to critique the best marth xD

 

[Supreme Dirt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzAmd9s_BYg

My friend's Marth. I'll be linking him here, he's on holiday right now.

 

[Anaky]

Leon too good to critique.

 

[Haptic]

RoyR (Marth) vs Haptic (Marth)

Set against Roy the Hero. Critique?

 

[Player-3]

stop sitting in your shield every time you get scared


learn how to trap the opponent and use marths aerials and his big *** sword to scare people into doing stupid things ( this is what roy r was doing to you)

 

[Haptic]

learn how to trap the opponent and use marths aerials and his big *** sword to scare people into doing stupid things ( this is what roy r was doing to you)

Can you expand on that, please?

 

[Player-3]

Tommorrow i dont have s keyboard atm


Maybe someone else can explain

 

[Shaya]

Yeah the problem you have is the one I see a lot with "newby" marths.

Its a lot like...
you don't have similar spacing skills (they're lackluster in comparison)
and you don't know when to swing your sword.

You don't swing when you should
and you swing when you shouldn't.
it's rare you get it right.

also there are more aerials than forward air.
Roy R used neutral air against you well, because it naturally beats fair spam.

You just outright got styled on because he knows marth a lot better than you do.
When you saw things, you didn't know what was going to happen next.

Like if I see a marth db1 to turn around, I know a bair is coming.

You also don't know how to edge guard at all.
You need to learn to speed hug.
And also to instant regrab with dolphin slash.

Yeah ughhh you need a lot more experience, your move choices are painful! :'(
Hope this helps, I'm not trying to be antagonistic.

 

[Nike.]

Hey guys. Got 3 tourney sets from this past weekend.

Winners Semis

Espy (Sonic) vs Nike (Marth) 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpemztQUKA
Espy (Sonic) vs Nike (Marth) 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cSmRNWNHTE

Espy is my cities best player. I've never taken a tourney from him and they usually end up like this.

Losers Semis

K Prime (Pikachu) vs Nike (Marth) 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdD05j1Sqyg
K Prime (Pikachu) vs Nike (Marth) 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3iUj_yJSRo
K Prime (Pikachu) vs Nike (Marth) 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJFDKP849a0

K Prime is my cities #2 player. It's the first time I've ever beaten him in tourney, but I feel like I still have stuff to learn.

Losers Finals

Ozz (Fox) vs Nike (Marth) 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbElI7SZYEU
Ozz (Fox) vs Nike (Marth) 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-NnpZ2eEvs
Ozz (Fox) vs Nike (Marth) 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoqRSdU-b-I
Ozz (Fox) vs Nike (Marth) 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu6dwfIJfBI

Ozz quit falco and mains fox. He's top15 in Texas atm and decided to come to our tourney.

Any criticism or help would be appreciated

Added with a MM from HOBO27 against Player4.

Nike (Marth) vs P4 (Metaknight) 1-4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSekr07z8X0
Nike (Marth) vs P4 (Metaknight) 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3hWeTuZ75s&feature=related

Anybody?

 

[Shaya]

Against P4's MK.

He always landed into ftilt when he was moving a reasonable distance in the air.
You would always get hit by them, followed by a flurry of getting hit by his fair over and over.
For something like that; to beat the fair, you need to get timing the nair down, or try to land into jab or something.

 

[C.J.]

If you feel you MUST challenge his glide attack, jab it. Glide attack clanks with everything and jab will give you frame advantage. You got hit by that attack way too much.

Work on your grab releases some. You missed a fair and a dair. You also need to be using them more. There were at least 2 times you had the option to do one and you just threw him instead. On top of that there were a few occasions where you pummeled him too many times and he got out. Under 100%, just pummel once max. There's no reason to risk the grab release for an extra 2%.

You also died a few times to being reckless off-stage. Wasting your second jump and getting shuttle looped and the such.

Please stop rolling so much. You rolled into a glide attack on Frigate and there were a few times that you had the option to punish and you just rolled behind (or in front of) MK instead.

You can't shieldgrab fsmash. Stop trying, you get hit every time you do.
Speaking of Fsmash, quit jumping into them, lol

Work on timing fthrow->fsmash. I don't think you did it and got a tipper more than once from 0.

At 5:39 you hit the ground and he starts running at you. Roll behind him. He can't change directions fast enough to get you. You roll the way he's running and he gets a grab.

7:40 even if you got the dair it looked like he would have hit the platform since it was still moving. Fair was a much better choice. Actually, because the platform was moving I think you might have been able to get a f/usmash

At 9:30 you went for a grab release fair, I think DS would have killed

And there were a few times you were out of range for everything MK had and you sat in shield. Then, as soon as he moved, you dropped shield. Sitting in shield like that will make you get shield poked by nado a LOT and will put you right above MK as a result.

 

[Haptic]

also there are more aerials than forward air.
Roy R used neutral air against you well, because it naturally beats fair spam.

I've never known when nair is better than fair, other than as a kill move. Can you please explain? You said it naturally beats fair, but what about in MUs other than Marth dittos?

You also don't know how to edge guard at all.
You need to learn to speed hug.
And also to instant regrab with dolphin slash.

You're right about not being able to edge-guard. I've read the thread on Marth's ledge options, but it didn't seem to help me at all. I try to stay out of ledge attack range, but ledge attacks always seem to me to hit across something like 1/3 of FD, and I just sort of sit there shing aerials.

Yeah ughhh you need a lot more experience, your move choices are painful! :'(
Hope this helps, I'm not trying to be antagonistic.

I can take criticism when I know it's due. Thanks for your help!

 

[Raziek]

Augh, Nike, I had a post on your K Prime set written out, then I lost it. I'll do it up again a little later.

 

[Raziek]

Ok, corrections are done AS I watch the set. (Meaning I pause and comment when relevant.)

Game 1 was just REALLY well played, not much I can say about that one.

Game 2.... a couple bad counter baits, and you're ledge-hopping nair, which is pretty easy for him to punish, I believe.

@ 2:26, DB4 Blue probably would have killed him, since it was fresh.

You got really desperate to take that stock. 2 really unsafe F-Smashes and a shieldbreaker, you're just lucky you didn't get punished that hard for it. Be patient and play safe, or you risk taking a lot of damage just to get the kill. (Right after I say this, you get a DA kill. Go figure.)

Does K Prime not DI your F-Throws? You should only be able to land 2 throws tops, and the F-Smash isn't guaranteed after the second one. AFAIK, F-throw F-Smash is all you can hope for, but he might not be aware of it. I play Lambnadr quite frequently (Another Pika main) and he always jumps out after throw two, regardless of what I do. So I just go for F-Throw -> F-Smash.

There were a couple situations where you should be really retreating your fairs, but you didn't. You got punished for it at 3:25. Do you c-stick your aerials? If you don't, you should. Either learn to claw, or L-jump so that you can retreat fair properly.

You should also probably practice the timing for running off the plat into an aerial, there were a few dash attacks and u-smashes that I presume were Fair and Uair.

Solid b-reverse SB to avoid. That was tasty.

Try to get out of the habit of throwing F-Smashes whenever he rushes, you got punished for that a lot.

Game 3

Immediate thoughts: Good choice on Brinstar, and bro-fist whoever put the Ruins music from PSO on there. Hopefully my Brinstar guide was of some use to you.

The Acid rising at 7:05 was completely predictable, always watch out during that closing of the first minute.

Overall, Game 3 was quite well played, though you seem slightly unfamiliar with how far you have to extend yourself to cover those platforms correctly. You over extended and got daired a few times.

Solid set, and congratulations on the win. Hope this helps.

 

[Player-3]

ok haptic what i meant was:

you're using marths sword to pressure, instead of the THREAT of his sword

like, people KNOW about marths range and expect it.... so use that to your advantage, by floating there like "hey ***** i'm going to slice you" so they do something stupid like roll away (fast fall > db works vs most chars) and you can usually read/react/punish it fairly easily

of course, roy r is very good so he won't fall for this kind of stuff, but the threat STILL works VERY well




and nair doesn't have as much range as fair, but its range is almost ALL disjointed, as in all sword, where as fair marth sticks out his arm and the disjoint isn't as great, which is why nair beats it because it can hit him in the hand

 

[Megavitamins]

P-3 i love you

 

[SmashDaz]

I might start posting a few vids here. I've started to use Marth alot.

 

[toki]

oh hai, im from Australia and im not pro like Shaya but i wanna improve like every brawler

I want tips for Olimar and Peach for now what should i do?

Heres a match i recorded from a meet/tourney i had like a week ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTqaRXeNQ84

Any tips for it?

 

[iamjason8]

Hi, just comment on things I'm doing right and things I'm doing wrong I guess.

I also know I have to grab more. And spamming F-Smash is a kind of a habit haha. Anyway thanks in advance.

Vs Captain Falcon (lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiMlPVtykB4

Vs Toon Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jV49UbLJZw

Vs ROB (you can ignore this because its extremely one sided :/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2RCHe1KLCU

 

[makoforce]

um hello could you critique this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMVCTSIsImw
imm fighting a cpu buut could you please let me know where im at as far as spacing and techinque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8tf1NKnY7M
this is the ending lol

 

[Foodies]

I don't usually critique, but all these vids without critiques makes me sad. So some stuff I noticed.

@toki:
-You use a lot of SH double aerials. You weren't approaching with it most of the time, which is relatively safe, but if you do it too much it can get predictable. I'm not sure if it's possible for Olimar to dash grab you in between your hits, but being predictable in general isn't safe.
-Don't always jump right back onto the stage when you are hit out. It's likely you will be hit out again.
You were obviously better than your opponent, so I couldn't find that much to say.

@jason:
-It's good that you noticed that you fsmash too much. You should use it mainly for punishing your opponent's mistakes/throw combos; don't just throw it out randomly or you will get punished.
-You don't necessarily have to grab more, there are times and places for everything. For example...
-After he whiffed that falcon punch you probably could have gone for something bigger than a grab. Try to learn which move will give you the most reward when your opponent messes up.
-Learn to instant ledgehog; there were a few times where he made it back to the stage when he shouldn't have
-Don't spot dodge so much when you mess up. For the most part it worked here, but better opponents will probably notice the habit and punish accordingly.
-Using a double jump airdodge that high doesn't really accomplish much except put you in unnecessary lag. If you are trying to avoid a move the double jump should be enough.
I only watched the one with Captain Falcon

@mako:
-Don't use approaching SH Double fair so much, since people can easily shield the 2nd one and punish you
-In general, space better.
-Nair is pretty good against Bowser
Play a person. CPU's are really bad for critique since they fall for dumb things and don't recover properly.

I'm not that good, but I hope this helps anyway. :D

 

[iamjason8]

@Foodie
Thanks, I'll keep those pointers in mind.

 

[bylim5]

oh hai, im from australia and im not pro like shaya but i wanna improve like every brawler

i want tips for olimar and peach for now what should i do?

Heres a match i recorded from a meet/tourney i had like a week ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztqarxenq84

any tips for it?

loltoki!!!!

 

[toki]

@Foodie
lol sorry for the late reply, thanks <3

@Bylim
lolbylim!! <3 quit stalking me.