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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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LooftWaffles

LooftWaffles

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gallax said:
Ya'll should watch these and tell me what u think I know i won but hey, i just want opinions on what you think of my marth in general.

Me vs GDX(gaw):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDikOL4rnIE

Me vs radix(snake):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GDy4MOFeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-PqjaqESg

Me vs Fearless(mk):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ug31QZ0tbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUrtV4tzfv4

Me vs radix(diddy):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpxmuSakRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5LnfQeSxYk
Click to expand...


First match against fearless, first thing I noticed.

Do not punish MK's fair with grab. Punish it with fair. Also, MK is forced to land after a SH fair. Keep this is mind while punishing

Also, at the 1:43 mark, you did something alot of Marths like to do and something every MK loves to punish.

If you think you can spike MK from above, MK knows he can shuttle loop you. I think we know how this one ends up.

Work on spacing out your landings. The ledge is your friend when the other option is to get naired or grabbed.

When jumping back to the ledge, never jump above stage height. This is begging to get your jump stolen and your stock lost. Go low, stall, live. Go high, get hit, die.

Also, Dolphin slash cuts right through glide attack landing shenanigans. Just dont shield first because the shield stun makes it a frame disadvantage.



I may be nitpicking, but I really like your Marth. Your general spacing is tight and you show the right level of patience in the MU. Are you just picking Marth up? I thought you were a Pika main
 
gallax

gallax

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Thanks man. Naw ive used marth for quite some time but only recently have been using him in tourney. Def needs improvement.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

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Landed so many utilts...in all honesty the biggest thing i found wrong is you got punished for trying to punish quite a few times its like...when u were doing good u were doing great like wo and when u werent it was...eh tbh. Now... hrmmm ik snake more than ik marth (mainly picked up marth for peach...Fl peach's too good ;-; )) and you did good avoiding nades but ya that many utilts shouldnt be happening also try to get him off stage more and when u do make sure u try and keep him low if possible ik u prolly know all this already just dint wanna leave u unanswered again xD

U should go up and watch leon vs calzorz more in depth or others which i dont know off top of my head
 
ChaosDrifter

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This is my first time critiquing a vid, but hopefully I can help point out a few things for you.

Nike i noticed you got hit by pretty much every bair that bizkit threw out, even the ones that you should have had plenty of time to react to. Watch out for things like that you can see coming, because he used it a lot against you, since it was working.

In your first round, first stock you used dair for some reason when you were hit straight up instead of fair twice in a row, although you still didn't die becuz of it, it's a bad habit you should try and get rid of.

I like all the different things you tried though. Shield breakers, platform cancelling into a uair to set up a juggle, etc. good ****, keep that up!
 
Player-3

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good stuff nike


my advice is get better at timing your juggle traps so people can't AD through it and always keep in mind how close you are to the ground

and besides that practice your punishes because alot of the time i saw openings that i would have punished more heavily than you (things like dsmash oos instead of a db if your db is really stale, etc) but good stuff yo



also needs more full hop rising bair ;)
 
Nike.

Nike.

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PEACE7 said:
Please Critique I was nervous during this matches and played very stupid but no johns please give tips. Also any tips to get rid of been nervous?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nos0mqJEHKg Marth vs Mk 1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQF84c3LUpM Marth vs Mk 2
Click to expand...


Game 1

At :17 he tornado'd. You let go of your shield and jumped, so he caught you in it. Counter instead. Marth has to react to whatever Metaknight does, not the other way around.

At :38, you powershielded to grab on his glide attack. Your getting good at that, keep it up.

At :45 fthrow is when a platform gets in the way from grab release. In this occasion, grab release dash attack/fair was guaranteed. Always go for the guarantee if it presents itself. Although you DID punish his air dodge with dancing blade, I still think guarantee > possible read.

:50 fsmash was bad and he punished you for it. You were at the perfect stage control spot against him and he spot dodged :(

I want your tipper fsmash, its soo good

1:00 Grab release -> dair is very strict in timing, just keep practicing. I myself have only done it like 1-2 times in tourney, I just go for fair for damage.

Wtf, ANOTHER **** tipper fsmash lol

1:13, he shielded a fair that wasn't tippered and dsmashed. Because he was facing the opposite direction, I would've went into shield after fair. Gives you the grab at 0%, where you can set up your low percent combos.

1:18 the smash gods were on your side

1:51 He mixed up his glide and it surprised you because you jumped. Punish glide attacks from the ground (to be fair, he mixed it up nicely).

1:58 - 2:08 Be smart with dolphin slash, otherwise it's free punishes for him.

2:18 VERY nice nair, that was clutch. If it missed you wouldve been in a world of pain.

2:20 Nicely timed uair on his glide attack, very ballsy

2:23 You predicted the air dodge, but you were way too late on the usmash. However, at 80% he's approaching killing percents and you dont want to stale it at that point. Pivot grab wouldve worked wonders (if you predict the air dodge).

2:26 LUCKY powershield, that wouldve been so painful x)

2:34 nice last ditch effort dolphin slash, pretty good

2:37 bad fsmash. He punished you bad for it.

2:44 He read the nair pretty good and it caught you off guard. However, he was at the ledge, meaning you should be drop off -> fairing him lol

2:50 You were fishing for the usmash HARD x)

2:55 - 3:02 NONONONONONOOOOOO! Okay, this is important. You ub'd to grab the ledge as he glides to the other glide. Instead of fairing/nairing/uairing back on stage, you rolled. This means you kept your RCO lag. After a bad usmash and he threw you off the level, when you tried to land on the stage you STILL HAD THE LAG. Notice how you had a half second of "zomg **** me please" lag. WATCH for this. Every really good marth player will always keep this in mind when he up's, because it WILL come back to haunt you.

3:09 - 3:20 you were fishing for the kill again and he kept punishing your smash attacks. Just punish, the kill move will eventually have it's moment.

3:32 Sad counter is sad. Hate when that happens :/
 
Player-3

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pretty much what nike said but i only have like one other thing

3:14 or so when you did db1 >dsmash... that will like never work lol people almost ALWAYS shield when they're getting dbed or di up + jump away (like he did) and dsmashes hitbox wouldn't have worked


and at the % he was at should have just done full db with 4th hit up try to get that surprise kill
 
Nike.

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I'll try and sum up the major things I saw.

-The first couple matches when Wilman was trying to land on stage after an upb, you'd over commit the direction he was facing. It gave when more than enough stage to breversal to safety. It's hard to give up stage control, I know. But, if he does pass you onto the other side, it takes away his breversal option and he can only air dodge/bair (both are readable).

Or you can just read what he does anyway and punish, like breversal x)

-EVERY MATCH youd get hit my multiple dairs. It was painful to watch because snake should not be landing successful dairs against marth. Like, ever lol

-Couldn't tell much in the first 2 matches, but on the last 3 your edge guarding habits started to show. You got a nice spike in game3. For the rest the set, you would get very impatient with the gimp attempts. Double jump dair when he's JUST outside spike range. going to the very far end and he ended up being too far above you, meaning he lands on stage while your barely able to make it back to the ledge. Remember, he still has to come to you. Especially if hes below the stage at low percents. He's forced to C4 himself 2-3 times, he's not going anywhere yet lol.

Outside of that, I couldn't really see much. I've never heard of Sc@r and he really impressed me. I saw some Mr. R gimmicks and he had a mikehaze type of spacing (maybe it was the color, but it felt like it lol). He was very good with his pivot grabs on reads/rolls, which is huge in my opinion. He also did run -> turn around -> jump -> nair when he would try to punish landings, and it was very slick. Def going to steal that. For someone so far below the radar and unknown, I was very impressed.
 
Player-3

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SkOaRaAn said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Ks55Pibws

This is a doubles video, so yea. I'm the marth obviously, and it was played at super dso 3. What do i need to improve? Btw don't mind the music chibo posted :/
Click to expand...
you play like a wifi marth


by that i mean


throwing out random smash attacks and laggy moves (down airs all over the place what the hell?) that really shouldn't work and you really should have gotten punished ALOT worse than you were (if at all) but it was doubles so slikvik and tusm didn't react as well as they should have


tl;dr
stop abusing wifi tactics
 
Nike.

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Player-3

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watch videos of mikehaze or mr r (well he's super aggressive LOL)

pretty much watch how they react in situations, like instead of smashing when they *THINK* they see an opening, they'll use a fair or something else much safer than a smash attack that has alot of lag.

i'm not saying never use smashes to punish but.. yeah


also you used WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much down air lol like... that should never be used except for OoS practically

but i'm a super safe marth player that spams db and pisses of people with really good punishes lol

just my input
 
SkOaRaAn

SkOaRaAn

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ok thanks. I just noticed that i did down air so much that match (but i don't use it much now). I just came back from not playing smash for like 4 months into a tourney, so I know i could look bad. A tactic that i use a lot though is that i use a retreating neutral air to a random fsmash a lot. Is that a good thing? Or will be viewed as a wifi marth tactic
 
Player-3

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random fsmash is usually bad... random anything is usually bad, especially something laggy as a fsmash


retreating nair > dtilt is a much better option (or nair > jab if you think they will approach from the air where dtilt won't hit)
 
N

NH Cody

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PEACE7 said:
Please Critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=307QkaAP5Qk Marth vs Diddy 1
Click to expand...
I guess I'll take a whack at it...

I only second marth though, so don't hold me to something if I'm wrong lol

*ahem*

Aerial DB1 may be controversial among marths but I would only use it once in a blue moon, to catch your opponent off guard, like with a sh db1 uair utilt, or something...I would definitely say cut back on those. Replace it with fair or nothing, unless you want to use it maybe once or twice a match unexpectedly.

LOVED that first stock kill. ;D then the fthrow to fsmash tipper. good stuff, I swear marth is fun when he tippers. It's kind of infuriating to fight marth though xD so I guess keep good spacing like you did in these two instances, so you tipper and get your opponent mad, and then he makes mistakes because he's not thinking clearly. It's kind of a dual effect: tippers are good because they're extra damaging, plus they're good because they make your opponent mad. lol

A few times you would db4 when your opponent was shielding and then he rolled away (he probably could have punished you but didn't, I guess this is an example of an unpunished mistake that would get punished by a better player). So increase your reaction time so you avoid throwing out moves when your opponent retreats.

Another edgeguarding idea that I didn't see you do: ledge drop reverse aerial DB1 DJ bair. I saw MikeHAZE do this in a match once and I stole incorporated it into my edge game, and it seems to work, so try that. Also on the topic of the edge, if you did an aerial DB1 offstage to put off your up-B at 2:22, you probably would have been able to survive. So be more...patient I suppose when recovering. Patience is a virtue.

Other stuff, watch to make sure you're not overdoing the obvious stuff like rolling and smashing, I don't believe marth really needs to roll, maybe in certain MUs but not as often as I was seeing it here. And there were a couple instances where you smashed when a better option could have been fair, grab, dtilt or DB. Just keep that in mind. Mix up the combos too, or try something like DB1 to grab or pivot grab. After all, DB1 could be compared to another character's jab (since it's fast and people cancel it into stuff like a grab). and this isn't a guaranteed combo so keep that in mind too, so don't always do that if you're going to try it. But the bottom line is: mix it up even more, since variety is the spice of life, and you can condition your opponent into thinking you'll do stuff when you won't. Fun stuff like that.

hope this helps :D
 
Kuro~

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also learn some better control methods with diddy's bananans dont simply glide toss em good stuff is z-drop to recatch with fair or glide toss to b-reverse sheild breaker ive cautght several diddy's with that z-drop to grab just mixups like that also when diddy is off the edge U MUST CAPITALIZE ON IT it is his weakest spot and marth is really good off the edge he can chase far and along with that everything quest said

OH and also dont use the the down db4 (multi hit one) its sooooooo ez to sdi out of the only time to use this one in all honesty is if they are sheilding the other ones then this one is best cuz of they sheild poking and pressure ability but other than that its the worst one...hope i helped as well
 
Player-3

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oh and my advice is


stop going for GRs if you don't know what works/can't do it lol

and learn to stop jabbing after you do first hit nair lol you had so many free usmashes
 
Sky Pirate

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IG88 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voC9FX9Qoj4
Click to expand...
Umm... I've forgotten if I mentioned this to you earlier, but Olimar's tether can't stick to a ledge if an opponent is on it. You could have taken my first stock a lot earlier if you had grabbed onto the ledge when you had me offstage.

And grabbing the ledge when I'm far out forces me to either land onstage (which can be punished) or try to get you off of the ledge (which is really risky against Marth), so it's a bad situation either way.

Also, I'm a little disappointed that you didn't go with the RC one. :troll:
 
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