The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

[Sky Pirate]

I need to stop trying to troll. It's just not working. T_T

 

[Reizilla]

Never give up!

 

[-NL-Miyavi]

*feels ignored >.<''*

 

[IG88]

*feels ignored >.<''*

cloverleaf was the one i was playing in the match he commented on lol

 

[PEACE7]

Please Critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnX1i3MU6c Marth vs Sonic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc2DG5BGY1U Marth vs Diddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GNeCfPQ5g Marth vs Mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVb5PRWexK0 Marth vs Peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3MwY2K1Ox4 Marth vs Peach

 

[VibeSlyph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6vEhptVJcU Marth vs. ROB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S0ncprCvTM ^

 

[Remzi]

Please Critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnX1i3MU6c Marth vs Sonic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc2DG5BGY1U Marth vs Diddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GNeCfPQ5g Marth vs Mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVb5PRWexK0 Marth vs Peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3MwY2K1Ox4 Marth vs Peach

I watched the MK one, you did a good job pretty much dominated the match for the most part but you have a few things going on that definitely need tuning up.

For one, I don't see that you are actively zoning. Like it doesn't seem like you are taking advantage of stage control or ever really winning the positioning battle. You are just kinda flying in with a variety of different approaches rather than holding down your ground and forcing him into bad positions.

Also, I think you go for the hard read too much, often using laggy moves such as smashes or a dash grab. You should only be going for a hard read when either you are 80% sure of what he is going to do or you doing so with a safe move.

Another thing, when you are in a disadvantageous position, GET BACK TO A NEUTRAL POSITION BEFORE TRYING TO SWING MOMENTUM IN YOUR FAVOR. I used to have that same problem. Its a step by step process, if he has you in a juggle trap and you have an opportunity to to for the ledge, take it! Don't airdodge past him trying to get a grab or anything like that. More often than not you'll get punished.

A few other things:

-spacing needs work
-Use dtilt, its one of marths best moves, especially right when you land or while your opponent is landing
-Again, you need to be actively zoning your opponent and controlling space better. Can't stress this enough.
-I feel like sometimes you'll just randomly throw out an aerial, be more in control of your movements, you can't put yourself into lag for no reason, especially not against MK.
-More FF aerials! A perfectly spaced ff aerial is about as safe as Marth gets besides a perfectly spaced dtilt.
-Rising full jump fair is really good, and can be a substitute for good spacing at times as well

You're on the right track though, keep it up, you're getting a lot better really fast!

 

[PEACE7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6vEhptVJcU Marth vs. ROB

Alright this is my first time critiquing a video but i was bored so decided might as well give it a shot. First thing i noticed is you got a sexy fsmash tipper at 1:12 out of your glidetoss. You handled that stock very well, at 1:30 you got hit by robs side b move which led to you getting hit with a top and costs you a stock. When you were getting hit by robs side b your best option would of probably been to up b out of it, I'm pretty sure it would of put you in a much better situation instead of getting gimped. Very nice up b at 2:00 and 2:06 after the second up b try not to go for another one after the first one or 2 your opponent will be expecting this and punish you for it in this case he only grabbed you but just something you should keep an eye out for. At 3:20 your up b costs you your second stock just try to be more cautious with it, its a great move but it leaves you wide open if you miss. Use counter wisely and only when you know it will hit its a laggy move and at 4:16 got you punished. At 4:22 you did another upb that costs you the match.
So overall I think you have a pretty legit marth you just need to work on not using the same move too much like your upb, neutral b shieldbreaker and your counter all very good moves but when missed can leave you wide open. I hope this helps.

 

[pulse131]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ-24ZGPSPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyZO1qDY2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9D3AFmJiq0



all marth v mk

 

[toki]

Marth vs ROB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQVXkpRDxY&feature=related

Marth vs Snake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd-sSZsUe3A


This was from a recent tourney and just want some advices and tips.

My main problem is against snake players, Im terrified against snake, even though he is my secondary ololol. My mind goes blank and do something stupid since Im not confident in this match up and always screw up with pressure lol I always think negatively when I play snake so I guess I panic and it makes me play retardedly so I really need to work on this match up >.> Guess I need to be calm when I play against snake and less panicking haha

 

[Eazy23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhCHZlADTBY&feature=related- marth v diddy
theres a bunch, check em in the sidebar if u want.
Tips vs diddy plz.

 

[C.J.]

Get better banana control. Start instant throwing, and z-catching. You should rarely be throwing them back @ diddy either. All you're doing is giving him his best tools back. Control them, and diddy dies. When you killed him and threw the banana offstage, you should have kept it. If you keep it/retain control of it, he only has one banana to work with. You threw it off the stage allowing him to have them both back again. If you still want to do aerials, that's fine. SH -> Z drop -> FF aerial. You get to aerial (or empty sh and you have a banana under you to trip him if he tries to run under you/punish your landing), and retain control of the banana. If you don't FF it, you won't recatch it, which puts a wall between you and diddy when you land.

 

[Ic0slay3r]

Some friendlies, against a ROB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD3QDl11Ows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VjfKzyzlEo

Still need a lot to learn, any suggestions, critique will be nice

 

[SkOaRaAn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prjoe3xJRa8 vs. DDD

Here is an AiB singles ladder match. It's wifi

1. I feel like i do a lot of mistakes, and that my approaching is horrible.
2. Idk what moves to do to poke with. I feel as if I only approach with f-air and I get predictable .
3. Also I feel as if i use neutral air too much.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PEACE7]

Some friendlies, against a ROB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD3QDl11Ows


Still need a lot to learn, any suggestions, critique will be nice

First thing I noticed is that at the beginning of the match you immediately rushed in and your opponent just waited for your approach and punished it. Although in some mu's it's not that bad of an idea to rush in against Rob its not that good of an idea since he has his gyro laser and his moves have about the same range as Marth if not the same or more. Also practice ground teching its really helpful it can help you avoid locks such as a d tilt laser lock and jablock at 0:07 if you had teched your fall on the ground you could of probably avoided getting hit by Robs Ftilt. Nice Fsmash tipper at 0:22. At 0:23 you dashed and did an upb too early practice on your timing and only do upb if you know your going to land the hit without getting punished its a great move but it has alot of lag leaving you wide open if you miss use it wisely. At 0:33 you up'bd too early which gave your opponent the chance to grab onto the ledge edgehogging you for the stock be more patient and recover lower not that high and use side b one when offstage for a boost than upb its incredibly helpful.At 0:44 you ran off faired in some cases it might work and like in this one survive without getting punished but down tilt would have been a much better safer option here. When on the edge don't always jump back on the stage with fair you have plenty of other options like shorthop nair, shorthop shieldbreaker one of my favorites since alot of people dont expect it and it can lead to a possible shieldbreak. Another option on the edge which is really good is tap back on the control stick while hitting forward on the cstick it will hit your opponent with a nice fair while your safe on the ledge dont overuse it as your opponent might figure out a way to get around it just like any other move. At 1:09 you got back onto stage with a fair try to keep your opponent guessing on what your next move is gonna be. Nice FSmash tipper at 1:14 your really good at getting the right tipper range. At 2:03 you recovered onto stage with another fair getting you punished by robs fsmash. When rob is grounded try not to get above him his upsmash is really good and can kill you at a semi decent early percentage. If you get hit with the gyro just keep hitting it with your jab and i also think you can Zcatch it on the air not really sure. But overall not a bad Marth just work on those couple of things and you'll be ****** that Rob in no time. Oh and btw tu eres Puertoriqueno?

 

[Ic0slay3r]

Yes, soy puertorriqueño 8)

Many many bad habits I have to fix thanks for telling me about them since I didn't notice them >.< especially the one where almost every time I enter the stage is with a forward air. Will be working on the things you told me and hopefully the next video I post will be of me ****** that ROB

 

[Rekros]

and hopefully the next video I post will be of me ****** that ROB

Jaja I'd like to see that MM XD

 

[SkOaRaAn]

Love how people just skipped my video :/

 

[NH Cody]

Love how people just skipped my video :/

>_<

you're still not doing what Player 3 said earlier...you're still smashing ridiculously early and way too often, not even 25 seconds go by and you've already smashed 3 times! lol! if the D3 was good that would have meant getting CG'd. also you did really weird stuff at the beginning, you ran in with DB (when you could've tried dashgrab and CG'd to tipper fsmash for more %) and then you used UP DB4? ...what... .-. I'm no marth expert but I think regular DB4 would have been better at such a low %. I thought that was supposed to be used at higher %s but I could be wrong. and then dsmash...which should have been shielded.

I can't believe how many times you got away with silly things like randomly fsmashing and sidestepping...just realize that won't work against better players (and offline lol). I don't think I need to mention all the times you would be smashing (and CHARGING SMASHES >____<) when something like retreating fair/dtilt/run behind him when he's landing and pivot grab/something else would have been the better option. Instead of trying to get a tipper smash, try to space and get a tipper aerial. Or dtilt, or anything that's less risky/not staling your kill moves. As far as I know, you should be more about the aerials then stuff on the ground.

also you used Down DB4 way too often and he would always escape it. If you notice stuff isn't working then don't repeat the mistake lol >_<

so uh...that's all I got. Hope this helps

 

[Nike.]

It's difficult to critique online matches

 

[Player-3]

you played vs a ddd was your first mistake

 

[SkOaRaAn]

I should really look at how I play in my videos, since I don't notice my mistakes lol Thanks

 

[PEACE7]

Upload some offline matches it'd be better to critique and it would help way better.

 

[SkOaRaAn]

If I go to one anytime soon :/

 

[NH Cody]

It's not even that, it's just that when wifi players have wifi habits and don't actively fix them is when there's a problem. You can help people improve by giving them advice on any match, be it online or offline, you just can't help with really specific stuff (example, on wifi it's hard to space, so the player might get shieldgrabbed from doing fair when he meant to space it and it just didn't come out spaced like it would offline).

If Skoaran were to give us an offline video as opposed to an online video, he probably would be making the same mistakes so I don't see what the difference is.

 

[Nike.]

Been awhile since I did one of these.

Nike (Marth) vs Espy (Sonic) 1
Nike (Marth) vs Espy (Sonic) 2
Nike (Marth) vs Espy (Sonic) 3
Nike (Marth) vs Espy (Sonic) 4

Somebody wanna tell me what I'm doing wrong?

 

[clowsui]

nike i'd prefer to do crits on aim

 

[C.J.]

game 1:
At 8 seconds in, you were running away from him, he spindashed at you, and you jumped backwards. You should have pivot grabbed. If he canceled it he wouldn't have been able to hurt you any more that if he canceled it and you ADed over him like you did. So, if he canceled it, it didn't matter which option you chose, result is the same. If he didn't, pivot grabbing netted you something, while what you did, didn't.

You lost your first stock because you just randomly wasted your double jump. Save it. actually, you waste your double jump a lot...

You lost your second stock because you just fell into it. He had already charged it a bit, if you had fallen in w/ a counter it looks like the counter frames would have outlasted the length of time he could charge it.

Stop jumping like a rabbit

Game 2
Stop falling into his fsmashes. He's waiting for you to fall, so counter. Once you do that, you have a nice mix-up between hitting him while he waits for you to counter, or countering while he thinks you're going to wait.

2:25, good job saving your jump, do it more often.

2:34 You just sat there in shield. While Marth isn't as fast as Sonic, you should have dropped your shield and ran/walked away from the ledge. Even if he ran after you and grabbed you, his throw wouldn't have put you offstage anymore.
Your second stock, two things: 1) You didn't have to jump to live when he baired you, so don't. 2) You should have upBed early instead of ADing. You didn't have your jump, so all he had to do was wait and spring you. If you DSed, you would have invincibility framed through the spring and got to the ledge. ADing in general at stage level or lower unless you HAVE to without your second jump is a bad idea in general. Way to easy to ledgehog.

He keeps landing w/ spot dodges from off stage. Wait for them.

3:20 you dropped down into the ****. You should have jumped away or held shield to wait for another attack to get away. Exactly like you did 8 seconds later.

3:46 You jumped too early. If you had waited a little bit longer, you could have jump->upBed through the spring. If he's waiting to use the spring... which he was, go as vertical as possible. If you're horizontal, *insert Pythagorean Theorem here* so your invincibility frames are more likely to run out before you get to the edge.

Overall, stop jumping so much, it's too easy for him to punish your landings. Save your jump offstage. And quit crouching. If you want to dtilt, definitely don't crouch, it telegraphs it way to much. If you find yourself crouching, do an aerial or grab. If they try to jump over your dtilt and hit you, then they get hit w/ an aerial instead. If they're prone to just shielding it, they get grabbed. But whatever you do, don't dtilt.

inb4you'rebadanddon'tknowwhatyou'retalkingabout

 

[SN Viper]

Here C.J. i dont know if you have any vids up on your marth but heres one.
GLX - C.J.(Marth) vs. FGCU Viper (Donkey Kong) (3)

 

[C.J.]

Thanks Viper. Had no idea if anything got uploaded.
So yeah guys that^^^^

 

[NH Cody]

Okay CJ, there are several things I noticed:

1. You would often get shieldgrabbed out of short hop fair. That means you should work on spacing, meaning don't attack him from a range where he can counterattack in some way.
2. You smashed too much and too early (don't worry it's a surprisingly common mistake). Definitely cut back on that and use fsmash either when you're going to kill, or when you are doing a grab > tipper fsmash combo at low %s. As a matter of fact it is possible to kill with tipper fair or tipper nair, so smashes should be used very sparingly, since there's usually a better and more safe option (like fair, dtilt, grab, nair, etc)
3. Don't approach so much, he doesn't have a projectile either, so you can make him approach you when you have the lead. It's like "sword camping" where you just zone and predict his approach and then punish him for it
4. at the beginning you did jab>grab, I don't think this is a combo xD, plus jab was a weird move to do at this time since retreating fair would be better.
5. I think there's some fancy grab combo on DK, probably like fthrow > fthrow > tipper fsmash or something. (go see the combo thread lol) I saw you try one fthrow to fsmash but it didn't tipper, so no sense doing that lol. Speaking of grabs try mixing up your grab follow ups, some followups could include DB, fair (or airdodge read fair), usmash (at kill %s), nair, regrab, etc.
6. I'm liking the use of DS, you used it pretty well defensively. Just don't dolphin slash when DK isn't in front of you like at 0:23, because that'll get you hit. Also try using it offensively, like trick your opponent into think he/she can shieldgrab you when you purpsely do unspaced ff short hop fair, then BAM! DS! he/she drops his/her shield to grab, then he gets killed (or at lower %s, at least hit far away with like 14%)
7. and I liked your good use of mindgames. Like at the beginning you jumped then fell back down and DB'd, and at 2:08 you waited and baited his airdodge then punished with fair. Keep that up.
8. [obvious advice]use more fair, dtilt, retreating aerials, pivot grab, platform cancels, spacing, less smashing, and maybe less aerial DB1 (if it works for you then sure but I would use less of it)
   [/obvious advice]
   

Hope this helps

also I'm going to a tourney in a few weeks, at which time I can hopefully get some friendlies recorded where I use marth so I can get my own critique xD

 

[Player-3]

nice cj good stuff

only thing i would suggest is less up b lol but then again i'm like the biggest hater of anything up b thats not guaranteed OoS or out of multi hit moves, etc

 

[WeretigerX]

nice cj good stuff

only thing i would suggest is less up b lol but then again i'm like the biggest hater of anything up b thats not guaranteed OoS or out of multi hit moves, etc

Up B is a very dangerous move especially how he used it. You're right in suggesting less of it.

 

[Player-3]

my marth is so gay though in tournament that i feel like i shouldn't tell people to play like i do

 

[Cygnet]

Hi! I'm, err...... totally new here and the whole..... competitive Smash scene and I was, umm...... wondering if my videos could be critiqued....

They're totally horrible but I'm new and here to improve, so.....

Owsla vs. Cygnet, Wario vs. Marth
Owsla vs. Cygnet, Snake vs. Marth

Hopefully, my playstyle is at least..... somewhat salvageable?

Thanks! And sorry for polluting your thread with utter incompetency. XD

 

[Orion*]

Hi! I'm, err...... totally new here and the whole..... competitive Smash scene and I was, umm...... wondering if my videos could be critiqued....

They're totally horrible but I'm new and here to improve, so.....

Owsla vs. Cygnet, Wario vs. Marth
Owsla vs. Cygnet, Snake vs. Marth

Hopefully, my playstyle is at least..... somewhat salvageable?

Thanks! And sorry for polluting your thread with utter incompetency. XD

they really arent bad, dont put yourself down.
"everyone starts from somewhere"

-first off i would say dont worry about playstyles because, copying someone elses is useless. you will never get as far as they did with it. just worry about improving your basics and mindgames and you will naturally of the course of getting better realize what works and what doesnt, and find options that fit "you"

of course, some options are just generally better than others, but outside of that there really is a lot of room for creativity.

anyway, my main three general points would be that
A) you waste your second jump to often (although you many times dont get punished for it)
B) you can recover a lot smarter, lower is generally better (this also translates from A, because you wasted your second jump, recovered to high and got farted on)
C) you cross up a bit to often personally, and it keeps putting you in a not so great position

i only watched game 1 but yeah haha

 

[Cygnet]

Thanks for all the advice! I'll try to develop my own playstyle and stop trying to waste my second jump ~> recover low.... will keep in mind.....

Umm..... what does "cross up" mean? Sorry for the....... terrible question.... >__<;;

 

[Player-3]

those were actually pretty good cygnet, as orion said work on recovering low but also i saw you use alot of falling db1s to try to hit away wario when he was juggling you or you were crossing up (which, to answer your post is when you switch the side of the enemy you are on, like instead of being to the left you're on the right, can be done with rolls or aerials used that cross you over shields and stuff) and you almost always got hit,

db1s hitbox isn't really good for that type of thing, i understand why you want to do it but try to land without using those because they will rarely work
however rising db1s can give you extra height, or shorten your 2nd jump to avoid juggles

and of course the ever popular marth advice of "swing your sword less" meaning stop throwing out aerials attempting to get lucky at hitting the other person, think about your aerials and how you use them, you did a pretty good job of this for a newer player

good job!

 

[Cygnet]

Thank you very much!

So in summary, to double check that I understand it all,

1) Recover low.
2) Cross over less.
3) Don't fall with DB's. (Use them to augment jump heights instead.)
4) Think more about each move and its significance?

Thanks again, Orion and Player-3!

 

[Player-3]

not so much its significance as much as WHEN to use it

but no problem