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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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Reizilla

Reizilla

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i only watched the first game and i'm feeling lazy, but stop fishing for grabs. that said, when you get the fthrow -> fthrow -> dair, don't fast fall the dair and try to stage spike. just wait for the animation to finish and get the ledge hog >_<
 
Teh-Shlurpie

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Rei-gun said:
i only watched the first game and i'm feeling lazy, but stop fishing for grabs. that said, when you get the fthrow -> fthrow -> dair, don't fast fall the dair and try to stage spike. just wait for the animation to finish and get the ledge hog >_<
Click to expand...
Anaky Says:

If you Fthrow > Fthrow > Dair Falco he can get back up and touch the floor on SV and BF, FD it doesnt work.

Tbh the best thing to do in that position is grab the ledge, the fall off and simply fair him, but u gotta be quick about it.

And LOL i like fishing for a grab xDDD
 
#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

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Teh-Shlurpie said:
Anaky Says:

If you Fthrow > Fthrow > Dair Falco he can get back up and touch the floor on SV and BF, FD it doesnt work.

Tbh the best thing to do in that position is grab the ledge, the fall off and simply fair him, but u gotta be quick about it.

And LOL i like fishing for a grab xDDD
Click to expand...
Wrong, the fair can be teched, which means it isn't a 0-death anymore. You can, however, sideB the falco downwards a few times and then edgehog.
 
Jolteon

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Xonar said:
Wrong, the fair can be teched, which means it isn't a 0-death anymore. You can, however, sideB the falco downwards a few times and then edgehog.
Click to expand...
Anaky Says:

"How can u tech the Fair as the Fair doesnt even knock you against the ledge if its un-tippered?

GOD BEING BANNED SUCKS"
 
Pr0phetic

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Xonar said:
It it doesn't(which I doubt if you DI into the stage) he can walljump at BF and FD.
Click to expand...
His jump will be pretty much gone after the spike. And you won't see too many techs from that, even if there's a tech it's a really disadvantageous position.
 
ChaosDrifter

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Here's a pools match in a recent tourney of me vs. a power ranked (6th) player in our region (he plays Zelda and MK but used Zelda in our match because I don't know the matchup)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnImSB5wxQQ

I would like a full analyzation of my Marth please. I notice I make lots of stupid mistakes that cost me alot and also towards the end when I was down to my last stock I played very aggressively, yet stupidly, and did poorly (haha hello Hot/Cold theory). Any help is appreciated! Thanks guys!
 
Pr0phetic

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ChaosDrifter said:
Here's a pools match in a recent tourney of me vs. a power ranked (6th) player in our region (he plays Zelda and MK but used Zelda in our match because I don't know the matchup)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnImSB5wxQQ

I would like a full analyzation of my Marth please. I notice I make lots of stupid mistakes that cost me alot and also towards the end when I was down to my last stock I played very aggressively, yet stupidly, and did poorly (haha hello Hot/Cold theory). Any help is appreciated! Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
- Your really swinging your sword too much. You and the Zelda player are playing a serious bait game, which you should win due to Fair's range and power. Instead of DJ, wait for her to land or jump and out range her attacks or moves.
- After a throw, nine times out of ten an opponent will AD. Whiffing an attack can be deadly, so plan accordingly.
- Play more patiently. Your jumping into traps and powerful attacks. that's Zelda's game, make you run into her stuff.
- Your playing WAY too predictable. In the first minute, I picked up on your whole game. try mixing up what your gonna do in each situation, as Marth has a plethora of tools. For example, if you full hop, your most likely going to Fair. if Din's Fire is coming your way, your going to AD. Those two tidbits of information can be your downfall!
- Limit your amount of sidesteps, as the duration of Marth's isn't too great to spam.
- if you don't know a match-up in the low tier, you can usually camp with Fair until you figure out what's working and what's not. Then, your aggressive play can kick in.
 
Albert.

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ChaosDrifter said:
Here's a pools match in a recent tourney of me vs. a power ranked (6th) player in our region (he plays Zelda and MK but used Zelda in our match because I don't know the matchup)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnImSB5wxQQ

I would like a full analyzation of my Marth please. I notice I make lots of stupid mistakes that cost me alot and also towards the end when I was down to my last stock I played very aggressively, yet stupidly, and did poorly (haha hello Hot/Cold theory). Any help is appreciated! Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
You're not abusing any of Marth's traits that cause him to dominate characters like zelda.

He's faster
has more range
more mobility
More damage
Safer

etc

Stop jumping into the ****.

Just walk up to her, and Zelda's f***ed.

If you walk up to Zelda you can
A)Shield and then punish any "gtfo" move she throws at you, proceed to ****
B)Poke her to hell, run away, neutral position is set again, except she has more damage, then proceed to ****.

The most zelda can do in that situation is go for a grab, but her grab and throws are under-average anyway
 
Pr0phetic

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Albert. said:
You're not abusing any of Marth's traits that cause him to dominate characters like zelda.

He's faster
has more range
more mobility
More damage
Safer

etc

Stop jumping into the ****.

Just walk up to her, and Zelda's f***ed.

If you walk up to Zelda you can
A)Shield and then punish any "gtfo" move she throws at you, proceed to ****
B)Poke her to hell, run away, neutral position is set again, except she has more damage, then proceed to ****.

The most zelda can do in that situation is go for a grab, but her grab and throws are under-average anyway
Click to expand...
lmao teamwork.

I also forgot to mention: use more Dtilt! Seriously, this move beats a lot of her ground game and allows you to play on her shield.
 
ChaosDrifter

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Rukkiko said:
- Your really swinging your sword too much. You and the Zelda player are playing a serious bait game, which you should win due to Fair's range and power. Instead of DJ, wait for her to land or jump and out range her attacks or moves.
- After a throw, nine times out of ten an opponent will AD. Whiffing an attack can be deadly, so plan accordingly.
- Play more patiently. Your jumping into traps and powerful attacks. that's Zelda's game, make you run into her stuff.
- Your playing WAY too predictable. In the first minute, I picked up on your whole game. try mixing up what your gonna do in each situation, as Marth has a plethora of tools. For example, if you full hop, your most likely going to Fair. if Din's Fire is coming your way, your going to AD. Those two tidbits of information can be your downfall!
- Limit your amount of sidesteps, as the duration of Marth's isn't too great to spam.
- if you don't know a match-up in the low tier, you can usually camp with Fair until you figure out what's working and what's not. Then, your aggressive play can kick in.
Click to expand...

HOLY CRAP! after reading all this and watching the match again with this new knowledge I finally realized what is wrong with my playstyle after all these months of playing this game. Thank you for the tips I will practice mixing up my approaches and walk to shield more often, and yes i will use dtilt more often also haha.
 
Raziek

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Well, firstly, it's a wifi match, and there is almost no point in critiquing someone who plays Marth on wifi, due to the nature of the character.

Second, it looks like it was lagging a LOT, which means both of you got away with a lot of dumb stuff.

Third, this is just a really sub-par match. You both made a lot of really dumb choices that you can only even get close to getting away with on wifi, and it shows.

I don't mean to be rude, but if you want a vid seriously critiqued, it shouldn't be one from wifi. Please consider re-submitting some examples of offline play.

Some other bored Marth might look at the wifi vid, but I doubt it.
 
Anaky

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C.J.

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When snake is offstage, damage > kill. You go for dairs that often miss/send them up when a fair/nair/bair would hit them/send them back offstage again. Unless they're cyphering dumbly, don't try to spike them. Just keep them offstage.

Most of the time you try to usmash his landing, you get punished for it, do the NEO, shield and grab, or run behind and pivot grab his landing and uthrow him to reset the situation.

Hell, uthrow him more in general if a fthrow/dthrow won't get him offstage.

At low percents when you get a grab on him, you do fthrow -> Dancing Blade. While good, and will get him off stage a lot. There were times you grabbed him when you were on the opposite side of the stage. You can always get another grab off snake at 0 so instead do fthrow -> fthrow -> dancing blade.

Also at low percents, when you hit with uair, you always usmash. Instead, after the uair, nair him. It's a better follow up since at lower percents, you can usually get another grab or something else on him. So overall, more damage and it's likely you'll get him offstage.

You got hit by the last hit of his nair too much, work on SDIing that.

Also, when you know you're going to whiff a fair, retreat it, don't keep going forward. You did that in game one and got utilted for it.

And when you shield the first hit of his ftilt, you keep spot dodging the second hit, then dolphin slashing. Just dolphin slash immediately OOS after the first hit. Spot dodging gives him an opportunity to punish.
 
Anaky

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Wow thanks alot man i'll save this long post of information, seems extremly helpful.

I'll try take as much into account as soon as possible, ur a star man.
 
Neon X

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Im having problems with characters that have projectiles. This video is me having friendlies with one or if not the best Pit in the world. His name is Smashragde. Places very high in the AIB ladders. I need some urgent critique on this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YjsY8Xg64o
Feel free to watch the other matches as well.
 
∫unk

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stop holding forward after you get hit wtf! do you want to get combo'd?

learn to DI after hits, that's a whole game you're not playing right now.

-

why are you so impatient on the ledge? a level 1 cpu might get on vs you because he takes so long but it might be the right timing. adjust.

-

why are you pummeling twice at 17%? that's a normal sign that someone is spamming their controller. I know because every person I've ever taught has this habit.

-

you get some nasty grabs, either you know the exact range of marth's standing grab really well from a lot of practice, or you're mashing grab because... what the hell it's working! either way nice job, it showed me something I can practice.

-

he has a dodging pattern. it's called, "when you get close, he dodges somehow". learn to punish it. guess what? now he's going to start attacking, so you start blocking. but mix in marth's pressure.

-

you keep getting in but you're not spacing your entry so you have no good attack options. always enter combat at marth's f-air tipper range or slightly beyond, now you can follow up with a frame safe perfectly spaced d-tilt, now you get to see him squirm in frame disadvantage (for pit). but everything has to be buffered. including the next option after d-tilt.

-

i honestly think the pit could be a lot better. he keeps randomly missing. or is this wifi?
 
A

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Neon X

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∫unk said:
stop holding forward after you get hit wtf! do you want to get combo'd?

learn to DI after hits, that's a whole game you're not playing right now.

-

why are you so impatient on the ledge? a level 1 cpu might get on vs you because he takes so long but it might be the right timing. adjust.

-

why are you pummeling twice at 17%? that's a normal sign that someone is spamming their controller. I know because every person I've ever taught has this habit.

-

you get some nasty grabs, either you know the exact range of marth's standing grab really well from a lot of practice, or you're mashing grab because... what the hell it's working! either way nice job, it showed me something I can practice.

-

he has a dodging pattern. it's called, "when you get close, he dodges somehow". learn to punish it. guess what? now he's going to start attacking, so you start blocking. but mix in marth's pressure.

-

you keep getting in but you're not spacing your entry so you have no good attack options. always enter combat at marth's f-air tipper range or slightly beyond, now you can follow up with a frame safe perfectly spaced d-tilt, now you get to see him squirm in frame disadvantage (for pit). but everything has to be buffered. including the next option after d-tilt.

-

i honestly think the pit could be a lot better. he keeps randomly missing. or is this wifi?
Click to expand...
Lol Wfi. And yes i practice my grabs a lot. Also could i train with you? O_O
 
Neon X

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lol the vid has some things i learned but that guys isnt as half as good as Ragde. He just spammed my life.
 
Neon X

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If you wanna play him lemme know. I can get him. Or you can join in brawl.cc and go to the chat. He's ways there. I have more matches but my main problem right now is D3 and Diddy. My hardest MUs.
 
Albert.

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Bengals why are you Jumping (or rather SHFF) continuously into his ****?

I'm thinking marth should be a walking powershielding punishment machine in this match-up.... Every time you jump up and **** you're not really accomplishing anything that you wouldn't achive just by walking up with your shield at the ready. Toon Links Grab/Throw game seems unimpressive to me, and seems like a better trade off than being ***** by his projectiles and hit-set-ups


will put more later.

EDIT: his first kill. Game 1. You didn't need to die there. A lot of top players preemptively DI up by holding up in a lot of head-head horizantal situations.... They aren't going to be hit by a vertical-killing move in that scenario so they DI perfectly just by holding up. They know that knowing how to take your punches is a part of the game. If you had DI'd better And/or recovered immediately you would have lived longer.

but seriously bro
why are you hopping up and down like a bunny? This is seriously not doing ANYTHING. All it's doing is putting you in a position where you have unneccesary landing lag. let's call this Pierce syndrom cause he does this to Toonlink and Pit.

Like.

Vex was ****** him cause he was just hopping and vex was planking and arrowing lol as pit.

You seem scared sometimes.

Look at the size of his sword. Now look at yours. Your sword is the giant black man of swords, compared to his tiny asian sword. When you get in you can go deep and he can't.

I'm not gonna watch the matches that you won cause I'm just assuming that you corrected this **** in them and adapted like a good player. Which I'm guessing you are.
 
Lord Chair

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Albert. said:
I'm not gonna watch the matches that you won cause I'm just assuming that you corrected this **** in them and adapted like a good player. Which I'm guessing you are.
Click to expand...
Hai can i help u with dat.

@Kenny (Miyavi):

You shield when he's in the air, don't do that. At about :20 he SH DJs, he was completely vulnerable to all sorts of interesting things and you decided that you should go for a fsmash. Why would you do that? You had tons of better options, you commit to fsmash too much overall, it's really not that good of a move.

Never airdodge towards a grounded Link, covering your landing with a fair on his shield is always more profitable ^^

DB on his shield > DS is kind of not realistic, especially against Link. Really his best option is just to keep shielding, he wouldn't commit to reacting to your DB mixup with any sort of attack. It was a nice moment to just dtilt his shield, or DB1 again. Now I'm being silly and I'll stop critiquing because I feel a bit nauseous.

Bottom line: Stop using fsmash the way you do, try to go for saver options more often. Some other stuff as well but... oh well. Just posting here to annoy Marths.
 
Remzi

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Albert, you're absolutely right. I was in the air a **** ton, wasn't I? haha.

The reason I try to stay in the air at all against TL is for two reasons:

1.) Shielding a bomb (not PS) limits you horribly. There are so many ways he can abuse you if one of his bombs are bouncing off your shield.
2.) His air game generally beats our game up close.

That said, in game 1 I pretty much completely abandoned my ground game and only approached from the air, which was really dumb, thanks for pointing it out :)
 
Reizilla

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That being said, Bengalz, walking around makes PSing bombs and stuff a lot easier and allows you to better space yourself away from that too-close range. Didn't seem like you had a problem PSing anyway. Walking also allows for more DB >:] Have you tried jabbing the bombs?

Also, I'm not sure if counter was always the best option when he was recovering. Seemed like you could've timed a regrab and punished with an aerial for more the 8 damage.

Albert said most of it, but I thought I'd throw my opinion on it too. Only watched game 1 though.
 
∫unk

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hahaha albert and clowsui. nice job ;)

try the m2k vs @lly. walk around avoiding stuff then once the projectile opponent tries something new see if you can punish (usually you can because they pick their safest setup first then go to something else to mix it up)

in conclusion: db ***** everybody. getting behind people with marth is so much fun.
 
Raziek

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I'm gonna have to agree with Clowsui on this one, I lost count of how many kill oppurtunities he passed up because he was trying to be fancy.

Also, you Dolphin Slashed WAY too much. If he was less ********, you'd have been eaten for it. He also didn't use any grenade shielding. This guy is pretty bad.
 
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