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The Official Falco Critique Thread
- Thread starter Marcbri
- Start date
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for helping out Larry. I had a few questions to go along with your suggestions, though.
1. Can you provide specific examples of when a spot dodge would have worked well, and where I should have used a jab/jab combo? It's nice to have a particular instance to look at. Also, why is Falco's spot dodge considered to be so good? I've heard people other than you also say that before.
2. What is another particularly useful approach to a grounded opponent other than the DACUS? Like I said in my post, I have trouble thinking of how to approach.
Thanks again for your help! I'm glad to get some advice from the best Falco around.
Gah777
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
- Messages
- 1,053
Falco spot dodge frame data (taken from the guide):Thanks for helping out Larry. I had a few questions to go along with your suggestions, though.
1. Can you provide specific examples of when a spot dodge would have worked well, and where I should have used a jab/jab combo? It's nice to have a particular instance to look at. Also, why is Falco's spot dodge considered to be so good? I've heard people other than you also say that before.
2. What is another particularly useful approach to a grounded opponent other than the DACUS? Like I said in my post, I have trouble thinking of how to approach.
Thanks again for your help! I'm glad to get some advice from the best Falco around.
Lasts 22 Frames
Invincible Frames 2 – 20
All Characters spot dodges:
Falco has one of the best spot dodges, but unlike the other characters that share his frame data, Falco has the fastest options out of a spot dodge, namely jab, which can cancel/set up for a grab.
And you really don't want to be approaching much with Falco. His options are much better when you force your opponent into your range. Just be patient and calm. Kills will come much better if you don't try to force them. Most of the kills i get with Falco are around 200% or higher with something like u-tilt or dash attack. Falco has all the tools he needs to play campy and kick ***, just be patient.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Ah, thanks for clearing that up Gah.
swordsaint
Smash Master
No offense Gah, but Falco works really well up close. You may not need to do the approaching per se, but once you're there, there's no need to run away. Falco's good at applying pressure and stringing moves together. Once you're actually up close, a single SHL to cut his options now and then to refresh your pressure is nice. However, in a lot of MU's, Falco doesn't need to run. Obviously, if you have a decent lead you can camp, but remember, once you're close, stay there for as long as possible. Only once you feel you've overstayed your welcome should you reset the situation. I can't stress it enough. Falco players (myself included) get overwhelmed by Falco's camping options, that they think that's mostly what he should do, but it's not. Keep at it, keep the pressure on, follow up, don't let up. You have the tools for this too.
Patience is key too, but once you have the opening to start running circles around your opponent, take it.
Kills will mostly come around 150-200% like he said above.
Redhalberd
For the most part, you aimed the lasers really well, and you ledge hopped them great too. However on Snake, a few grounded shots after the usual SHD/L are really effective too, as it is on most characters.
It’s good and all to camp, you did it nicely, but Snake’s a character that once up close, Falco can really string and pressure good. So once you’ve got that edge of being ‘inside’ Snake’s defences, you really have to capitalise more. He’s pretty terrible at landing on the stage, but he seemed to do it way too much on you. Something you could do better.
When you’re below someone on a platform, back air or neutral air is the best choice. You seemed to know this, but there was some poor execution, jumping at the wrong heights and poor timing. If they’re on the platform knocked over, don’t try and hit them, wait for their get up or roll.
I think you definitely used phantasm on the ground too much, even if you seemed to get away with it, but that’s the Snake’s fault. You also got away with too many SHDL’s, Snake when spaced well can DACUS after your SHDL and punish you for it.
You reacted and followed up badly when Snake DI’d out of your jabs. You probably could’ve grabbed him a fair amount of times.
Your rolling got predictable too.
You cancelled your phantasms at the wrong length quite often. I think you spot dodged too much out of cancelled phantasms too.
You weren’t patient enough.
That’s probably too much right?
Patience is key too, but once you have the opening to start running circles around your opponent, take it.
Kills will mostly come around 150-200% like he said above.
Redhalberd
For the most part, you aimed the lasers really well, and you ledge hopped them great too. However on Snake, a few grounded shots after the usual SHD/L are really effective too, as it is on most characters.
It’s good and all to camp, you did it nicely, but Snake’s a character that once up close, Falco can really string and pressure good. So once you’ve got that edge of being ‘inside’ Snake’s defences, you really have to capitalise more. He’s pretty terrible at landing on the stage, but he seemed to do it way too much on you. Something you could do better.
When you’re below someone on a platform, back air or neutral air is the best choice. You seemed to know this, but there was some poor execution, jumping at the wrong heights and poor timing. If they’re on the platform knocked over, don’t try and hit them, wait for their get up or roll.
I think you definitely used phantasm on the ground too much, even if you seemed to get away with it, but that’s the Snake’s fault. You also got away with too many SHDL’s, Snake when spaced well can DACUS after your SHDL and punish you for it.
You reacted and followed up badly when Snake DI’d out of your jabs. You probably could’ve grabbed him a fair amount of times.
Your rolling got predictable too.
You cancelled your phantasms at the wrong length quite often. I think you spot dodged too much out of cancelled phantasms too.
You weren’t patient enough.
That’s probably too much right?
swordsaint
Smash Master
Never said you did, but to someone looking for advice, your wording might imply to some 'camp them, when they're forced to approach hit them, then start camping again'. Remember, I said that to some, it MIGHT imply that.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Swordsaint, you mind checking out my vids and giving some tips?
swordsaint
Smash Master
Mind linking some? I cbf going back pages lol. Nevermind about that, they're only on the last page. I'll start watching them now. And just to make sure, it's not wifi is it?
Btw Gah, I <3 for quoting Scabe, since I know him.
Btw Gah, I <3 for quoting Scabe, since I know him.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Nope, not wifi. Thanks for taking a look.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Serious warning, this is a huge post. It's what I get for being in a bad sleeping habit during the holidays. Anyway here it goes. I hope I don't insult you.
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Kirin, no offense, as I seriously mean none but I’m probably going to say a lot of things, seeing as you can improve on a lot.
Play style, reactions and shielding
As DEHF said, you sit in shield sometimes when you don’t need to, and you play a little ‘slow’, you’re not always doing something. It often looks like you just don’t know what to do, you start thinking about it, and then the situations changed and you freeze up because you need to think again.
In all seriousness, face your opponent more. Now this may at first seem like an insult, but there were actually a number of times where your slow reactions/play had your back to the enemy, this makes a lot more of his attacks safer on shield.
Sometimes you seemed to flinch with your shield. I saw your shield flicker a couple of times because you put up your shield, dropped it, put it back up, dropped it, make up your mind.
5 words: Up smash out of shield. You missed some opportunities to kill when Lucas landed hits on your shield.
Learn to use aerials out of shield. They’re really useful.
Lasers
Your lasers are poor. You’re shooting only one too high a lot of the time, or both lasers too high. Learn to SHDL one laser higher, one lower. And if you’re just going to shoot one laser, it’s best to do it lower. Since if the opponent get’s up close and is going to punish you if you laser, you have time to back out and jump away/air dodge.
Try to laser Lucas from mid-range. If you play from long range, Lucas can absorb your lasers without being punished. Using lasers up close is just silly (for obvious reasons ah-huh). Mid-range SINGLE lasers (lower height) means he can’t absorb your lasers without being punished for trying. Be thinking about grabs at lower or mid percents, smashes at kill percents and IAP’s (Instant aerial phantasm) when you’re a little bit too far away.
Spacing and aerials
Whenever you tried to follow someone in the air, you just plain missed. This seems like an experience problem. Your spacing is below average because you either haven’t played enough, or haven’t practiced your spacing enough. You also just didn’t follow him in the air when you could’ve. Falco is rather good at punishing people who take to the skies. If they air dodge one of your up aerials, you can instantly follow up with any other aerial you **** well please.
Punishing
You missed some opportunities when Lucas was stuck on a platform. You need to punish Lucas’ PSI Magnet more. It’s really open.
Also don’t punish everything with up smash. It’d be really hard to tell you how to punish EVERYTHING, but I can say don’t use up smash all the time, or dash attack. IAP, grabs, tilts, down smash is ok I guess if you have time and aerials are your best punishers but remember it ALL depends on the situation and how much time you have to punish. To be blunt, it just seems like you don’t know entirely what Falco is capable of in certain situations. It is an experience thing, with time comes speed. When you know what’s possible, with experience you’ll react and think quicker in a situation and punish things much more effectively.
Grabbing and Chain Grabbing
When you down air Lucas from a down throw, you shouldn’t need to do a second jump. One dash to short hop down air is enough, if you’re playing quick. Don’t throw someone off stage just because you can at the time, if they’re in CG percents, just CG them.
Don’t running CG. It’s much safer to just walk to CG, plus it’s better. Learn your grabs range so you don’t mess up as often.
Stop trying to up smash him from down throw when he’s out of the CG percent, laser or IAP. If he’s below 90-100% jabs will hit him out of down throw. Something I personally do, if I find they try to aerial or air dodge from my down throw is either shield and re-grab, or charge a forward smash to make them go boom.
Move Usage
A tip for improving faster for now, don’t use reflector at all, unless you physically see a projectile come at you.
Don’t use forward air at all. AT. ALL. </3 this move.
Space with forward tilts more, it’s a really good move on shield too, when properly spaced of course.
You need to use IAP more IMO.
Needs more jabs, it is two frames if I recall correctly. It is our quickest move.
Approaching, Pressuring and Resetting
Don’t approach with up smash. If you don’t know how to approach, don’t. It’s smarter and safer. You’re also approaching with dash attack way too much. I’m not the best at approaching, so usually I don’t, however single short hop lasers cut their options really well, and allow you to move in, just don’t be predictable. If you find yourself not approaching well, just shoot lasers to force them to come to you, and once you get the hit on them, stay close and pressure them. If you think you’ve overstayed your welcome up close to them, you can run away and SHDL, or IAP. Phantasm is good for running away too, not just random input after lasers or recovering.
Recovery
I think you need to work on your recovery a little bit.
The only way you ever really recovered is a phantasm that follows the ground. You never just jump, roll or get up attack. You just constantly re-grab the ledge until you think you’re safe to fall off the ledge then jump phantasm. You NEED to mix it up, but also choose based on the situation.
Talking purely phantasms, learn to cancel them properly. It’ll take some time though but it’ll be one of the best things you’ve ever done.
Random
Is your T.V laggy?
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Alright, that was a mouthful, I know, and I do hope you read it. At the very least, it's most of what you could improve on all in one spot. I gave you as much as possible because you seem rather committed whether you say you're considering leaving or not, and that's because before leaving you asked for help.
I don't think you should quit being part of the smash scene because you don't feel very good. Everyone starts somewhere, and everyones been to a poorly organised tournament before. Part of what makes the smash community so great, is making friends at tournaments. Most of the people are awesome dudes, and having more Falco representation on the boards would be cool.
I'm getting really sick of these 502's and 504's.
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Kirin, no offense, as I seriously mean none but I’m probably going to say a lot of things, seeing as you can improve on a lot.
Play style, reactions and shielding
As DEHF said, you sit in shield sometimes when you don’t need to, and you play a little ‘slow’, you’re not always doing something. It often looks like you just don’t know what to do, you start thinking about it, and then the situations changed and you freeze up because you need to think again.
In all seriousness, face your opponent more. Now this may at first seem like an insult, but there were actually a number of times where your slow reactions/play had your back to the enemy, this makes a lot more of his attacks safer on shield.
Sometimes you seemed to flinch with your shield. I saw your shield flicker a couple of times because you put up your shield, dropped it, put it back up, dropped it, make up your mind.
5 words: Up smash out of shield. You missed some opportunities to kill when Lucas landed hits on your shield.
Learn to use aerials out of shield. They’re really useful.
Lasers
Your lasers are poor. You’re shooting only one too high a lot of the time, or both lasers too high. Learn to SHDL one laser higher, one lower. And if you’re just going to shoot one laser, it’s best to do it lower. Since if the opponent get’s up close and is going to punish you if you laser, you have time to back out and jump away/air dodge.
Try to laser Lucas from mid-range. If you play from long range, Lucas can absorb your lasers without being punished. Using lasers up close is just silly (for obvious reasons ah-huh). Mid-range SINGLE lasers (lower height) means he can’t absorb your lasers without being punished for trying. Be thinking about grabs at lower or mid percents, smashes at kill percents and IAP’s (Instant aerial phantasm) when you’re a little bit too far away.
Spacing and aerials
Whenever you tried to follow someone in the air, you just plain missed. This seems like an experience problem. Your spacing is below average because you either haven’t played enough, or haven’t practiced your spacing enough. You also just didn’t follow him in the air when you could’ve. Falco is rather good at punishing people who take to the skies. If they air dodge one of your up aerials, you can instantly follow up with any other aerial you **** well please.
Punishing
You missed some opportunities when Lucas was stuck on a platform. You need to punish Lucas’ PSI Magnet more. It’s really open.
Also don’t punish everything with up smash. It’d be really hard to tell you how to punish EVERYTHING, but I can say don’t use up smash all the time, or dash attack. IAP, grabs, tilts, down smash is ok I guess if you have time and aerials are your best punishers but remember it ALL depends on the situation and how much time you have to punish. To be blunt, it just seems like you don’t know entirely what Falco is capable of in certain situations. It is an experience thing, with time comes speed. When you know what’s possible, with experience you’ll react and think quicker in a situation and punish things much more effectively.
Grabbing and Chain Grabbing
When you down air Lucas from a down throw, you shouldn’t need to do a second jump. One dash to short hop down air is enough, if you’re playing quick. Don’t throw someone off stage just because you can at the time, if they’re in CG percents, just CG them.
Don’t running CG. It’s much safer to just walk to CG, plus it’s better. Learn your grabs range so you don’t mess up as often.
Stop trying to up smash him from down throw when he’s out of the CG percent, laser or IAP. If he’s below 90-100% jabs will hit him out of down throw. Something I personally do, if I find they try to aerial or air dodge from my down throw is either shield and re-grab, or charge a forward smash to make them go boom.
Move Usage
A tip for improving faster for now, don’t use reflector at all, unless you physically see a projectile come at you.
Don’t use forward air at all. AT. ALL. </3 this move.
Space with forward tilts more, it’s a really good move on shield too, when properly spaced of course.
You need to use IAP more IMO.
Needs more jabs, it is two frames if I recall correctly. It is our quickest move.
Approaching, Pressuring and Resetting
Don’t approach with up smash. If you don’t know how to approach, don’t. It’s smarter and safer. You’re also approaching with dash attack way too much. I’m not the best at approaching, so usually I don’t, however single short hop lasers cut their options really well, and allow you to move in, just don’t be predictable. If you find yourself not approaching well, just shoot lasers to force them to come to you, and once you get the hit on them, stay close and pressure them. If you think you’ve overstayed your welcome up close to them, you can run away and SHDL, or IAP. Phantasm is good for running away too, not just random input after lasers or recovering.
Recovery
I think you need to work on your recovery a little bit.
The only way you ever really recovered is a phantasm that follows the ground. You never just jump, roll or get up attack. You just constantly re-grab the ledge until you think you’re safe to fall off the ledge then jump phantasm. You NEED to mix it up, but also choose based on the situation.
Talking purely phantasms, learn to cancel them properly. It’ll take some time though but it’ll be one of the best things you’ve ever done.
Random
Is your T.V laggy?
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Alright, that was a mouthful, I know, and I do hope you read it. At the very least, it's most of what you could improve on all in one spot. I gave you as much as possible because you seem rather committed whether you say you're considering leaving or not, and that's because before leaving you asked for help.
I don't think you should quit being part of the smash scene because you don't feel very good. Everyone starts somewhere, and everyones been to a poorly organised tournament before. Part of what makes the smash community so great, is making friends at tournaments. Most of the people are awesome dudes, and having more Falco representation on the boards would be cool.
I'm getting really sick of these 502's and 504's.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Wow, I love you swordsaint. You didn't insult me at all. Everything you said is what I think to myself every time I play the game. I just either don't know how to fix my mistakes, or have trouble actually fixing them.
I'd like to begin at the end, since there's a comment I'd like to reply to. I used to live in Houston, and I've been part of the competitive Brawl scene since I went to HOBO 4. I got last place in every HOBO I went to, but I went to quite a few Smash-fests held by some of my fellow Houston players, in a feeble attempt to improve. So I'm not "new" to the Brawl scene, although I was never a part of the Melee scene, and I definitely do have a desire to improve. Just wanted to put it out there that I've been making an attempt to improve for a long time, and that's why I'm frustrated. That frustration is what made me quit the Brawl scene a while back, but now I'm back for another try, but so far things aren't looking good. With help from people such as you and DEHF, though, who knows? Anyways... I think I'll reply to each of your sections of advice one at a time.
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Play Style, Reactions and Shielding
I do play a bit slow. I always notice this when I compare my replays to others'. I think it mainly has to do with my fear of actually approaching the enemy, so if I can improve on my approach game, I think I should speed up quite a bit. I'll try to work on getting past my hesitation. And no, I don't think there's any significant lag on my TV, although it is an HDTV.
Lasers
I went into training mode and started practicing my lasers to get the SHDL down at the correct height. I'll be working on that. I also have never really seen the point in only firing out a single laser, but you bring up a good point, so I will have to start using SHLs.
Spacing and Aerials/Punishing
I combined these two sections as the S&A section is very short. First off, I know my spacing is terrible. I definitely need to work on it, both on the ground and in the air. However, about the Magnet: I'm really unsure on how to punish that. It's rather large, so the only way to really get past it is a full hop, and by the time I land on the ground behind Lucas, he's already gotten rid of it and is mid-attack. I can't attack from in front, because as soon as I'm inside the Magnet he releases it, dealing damage to me and knocking me back.
Thank you for suggesting some alternatives to Usmash for punishment, I'll try to remember them.
Grabbing and Chain Grabbing
I know I regularly misjudge the distance that my opponent is going to fly after a Dthrow, and whiff a Usmash or a dash attack. I definitely need to work on that. I just recently noticed DEHF jabbing after grabs in a video, and will definitely have to try that out. I will also work on the walking grab.
Move Usage
I actually try to not use Reflector or Fair ever, but the few times you see them come out when they shouldn't, is me hitting the wrong buttons on the controller. Sometimes when coming back to the ledge I attempt a Phantasm but hit Reflector, and sometimes when going for a Nair while moving forward in the air I accidentally make it a Fair.
I'll work on my jab, Ftilt, and IAP usage.
Approaching, Pressuring and Resetting
I realize that I shouldn't be approaching so much, but against Lucas what can I do? If I sit there and fire off lasers he just whips out his PSI Magnet. What is a safe approach on Lucas or other characters, such as Pit, that have a reflector?
Recovery
I've been trying to mix up my recovery more and more, but I always fall back on the Phantasm. I'll keep working on it. I try to occasionally drop off the ledge and hop on with a Nair, but I often mess it up and instead use a Fair or Reflector. I believe I do both of those a couple of times in my videos. I'll keep working on getting that down.
I also went into training mode and tried to get Phantasm cancels down, but I'm not sure how to do it. The animation is so fast I just mash on the B button, and it randomly cancels it occasionally. Really not sure on how this works, as the animation seems too fast to be able to cancel it efficiently.
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I'll try to work on everything you suggested. Thanks a lot for the long and informative post. Oh, and by the way, I'm hating Crashboards too.
I'd like to begin at the end, since there's a comment I'd like to reply to. I used to live in Houston, and I've been part of the competitive Brawl scene since I went to HOBO 4. I got last place in every HOBO I went to, but I went to quite a few Smash-fests held by some of my fellow Houston players, in a feeble attempt to improve. So I'm not "new" to the Brawl scene, although I was never a part of the Melee scene, and I definitely do have a desire to improve. Just wanted to put it out there that I've been making an attempt to improve for a long time, and that's why I'm frustrated. That frustration is what made me quit the Brawl scene a while back, but now I'm back for another try, but so far things aren't looking good. With help from people such as you and DEHF, though, who knows? Anyways... I think I'll reply to each of your sections of advice one at a time.
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Play Style, Reactions and Shielding
I do play a bit slow. I always notice this when I compare my replays to others'. I think it mainly has to do with my fear of actually approaching the enemy, so if I can improve on my approach game, I think I should speed up quite a bit. I'll try to work on getting past my hesitation. And no, I don't think there's any significant lag on my TV, although it is an HDTV.
Lasers
I went into training mode and started practicing my lasers to get the SHDL down at the correct height. I'll be working on that. I also have never really seen the point in only firing out a single laser, but you bring up a good point, so I will have to start using SHLs.
Spacing and Aerials/Punishing
I combined these two sections as the S&A section is very short. First off, I know my spacing is terrible. I definitely need to work on it, both on the ground and in the air. However, about the Magnet: I'm really unsure on how to punish that. It's rather large, so the only way to really get past it is a full hop, and by the time I land on the ground behind Lucas, he's already gotten rid of it and is mid-attack. I can't attack from in front, because as soon as I'm inside the Magnet he releases it, dealing damage to me and knocking me back.
Thank you for suggesting some alternatives to Usmash for punishment, I'll try to remember them.
Grabbing and Chain Grabbing
I know I regularly misjudge the distance that my opponent is going to fly after a Dthrow, and whiff a Usmash or a dash attack. I definitely need to work on that. I just recently noticed DEHF jabbing after grabs in a video, and will definitely have to try that out. I will also work on the walking grab.
Move Usage
I actually try to not use Reflector or Fair ever, but the few times you see them come out when they shouldn't, is me hitting the wrong buttons on the controller. Sometimes when coming back to the ledge I attempt a Phantasm but hit Reflector, and sometimes when going for a Nair while moving forward in the air I accidentally make it a Fair.
I'll work on my jab, Ftilt, and IAP usage.
Approaching, Pressuring and Resetting
I realize that I shouldn't be approaching so much, but against Lucas what can I do? If I sit there and fire off lasers he just whips out his PSI Magnet. What is a safe approach on Lucas or other characters, such as Pit, that have a reflector?
Recovery
I've been trying to mix up my recovery more and more, but I always fall back on the Phantasm. I'll keep working on it. I try to occasionally drop off the ledge and hop on with a Nair, but I often mess it up and instead use a Fair or Reflector. I believe I do both of those a couple of times in my videos. I'll keep working on getting that down.
I also went into training mode and tried to get Phantasm cancels down, but I'm not sure how to do it. The animation is so fast I just mash on the B button, and it randomly cancels it occasionally. Really not sure on how this works, as the animation seems too fast to be able to cancel it efficiently.
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I'll try to work on everything you suggested. Thanks a lot for the long and informative post. Oh, and by the way, I'm hating Crashboards too.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Lol Crashboards. I love it.
PSI-Magnet: As said, play Lucas mid-range. So when you SHL, if he whips it out (lol) you can punish. If you're having trouble getting past it because he releases it on you (lol) wait for him to drop the magnet then dash attack or punish with something else. He'll find it rather hard to release his magnet on an IAP though. So it is rather safe.
That's also how you get close to most characters with a reflector or absorbtion tool of some sort. SHL from a mid-range distance, so if they try it, you can punish it. Approaching doesn't have to be about forcing an opening or an attack to land. It can be just as much about finding a method to get close to your opponent. So you play safe, and create an opening you can move in on, rather than losing your patience and getting punished for being too aggressive.
Pit, you don't need to approach either, it's good to still though. Pit's a mu I have a little trouble with still, but reflecting their arrows and just walking closer slowly is fine. Seriously, Falco doesn't need to run most of the time. He can honestly just walk most of the game, depending on the mu mostly. Never underestimate walking as an approach though, because unlike running, you can tilt and jab from it.
Cancels are hard, so don't worry too much about them. I can't remember the frame-data for phantasms cancels, but if i remember correctly, you only have 1 frame per cancel. So 3 frames total, with 3 different lengths. It's difficult, but don't worry too much about 'practicing' it. If you can, just attempt a cancel every phantasm you do in game, and eventually you'll pick it up. It would be useful if someone could post the frame data for this though.
On lasers, it's good to just SHL a lot of the time because many characters can just dash under the higher laser and shield the lower laser, making for an easy landing punish. So if you're not committing to the higher laser, you have time to see what they're thinking about doing, to back out of the laser all together. Metaknight for instance, high laser is useless unless he jumps in to it.
PSI-Magnet: As said, play Lucas mid-range. So when you SHL, if he whips it out (lol) you can punish. If you're having trouble getting past it because he releases it on you (lol) wait for him to drop the magnet then dash attack or punish with something else. He'll find it rather hard to release his magnet on an IAP though. So it is rather safe.
That's also how you get close to most characters with a reflector or absorbtion tool of some sort. SHL from a mid-range distance, so if they try it, you can punish it. Approaching doesn't have to be about forcing an opening or an attack to land. It can be just as much about finding a method to get close to your opponent. So you play safe, and create an opening you can move in on, rather than losing your patience and getting punished for being too aggressive.
Pit, you don't need to approach either, it's good to still though. Pit's a mu I have a little trouble with still, but reflecting their arrows and just walking closer slowly is fine. Seriously, Falco doesn't need to run most of the time. He can honestly just walk most of the game, depending on the mu mostly. Never underestimate walking as an approach though, because unlike running, you can tilt and jab from it.
Cancels are hard, so don't worry too much about them. I can't remember the frame-data for phantasms cancels, but if i remember correctly, you only have 1 frame per cancel. So 3 frames total, with 3 different lengths. It's difficult, but don't worry too much about 'practicing' it. If you can, just attempt a cancel every phantasm you do in game, and eventually you'll pick it up. It would be useful if someone could post the frame data for this though.
On lasers, it's good to just SHL a lot of the time because many characters can just dash under the higher laser and shield the lower laser, making for an easy landing punish. So if you're not committing to the higher laser, you have time to see what they're thinking about doing, to back out of the laser all together. Metaknight for instance, high laser is useless unless he jumps in to it.
gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
I think everyone else pretty much said what I was gonna say Kirin but I'd like to point out that the more you play, you will pick up on new things and your will bad habits will go away naturally so don't sweat it too much.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Thanks again for the advice swordsaint, and thank you for the hopeful comment Ozz.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I'm going to bed now, despite it being 11AM.....
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I like your name btw. It's like Kirin_blaze...but not.
Swordsaint (Falco) vs Scabe (Link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxB9S62KZo
Swordsaint (Falco) vs Shaya (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-rGfG_U9E0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e2IFMgGYfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DNsDOBy198
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGe0Xv52_yk
Critique please, and before anything, I was a little rusty, so I made some mistakes that I wouldn't otherwise make. Have fun.
Btw, how do you guys link videos, but change what the actual link is? For example, instead of showing the link, showing Swordsaint vs Shaya as the link.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I like your name btw. It's like Kirin_blaze...but not.
Swordsaint (Falco) vs Scabe (Link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxB9S62KZo
Swordsaint (Falco) vs Shaya (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-rGfG_U9E0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e2IFMgGYfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DNsDOBy198
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGe0Xv52_yk
Critique please, and before anything, I was a little rusty, so I made some mistakes that I wouldn't otherwise make. Have fun.
Btw, how do you guys link videos, but change what the actual link is? For example, instead of showing the link, showing Swordsaint vs Shaya as the link.
Denzi
Smash Master
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
If you click the hyperlink button, and enter your link, it will look like...
[U R L="www.youtube.com"]www.youtube.com[/URL]
...without the spaces between URL. Just change the link within the ][ to whatever you want to call it. So that...
[U R L="www.youtube.com"]YouTube[/URL]
...will look like...
YouTube
Hope that helps!
Edit: Oh and, swordsaint, who or what is kirin_blaze?
[U R L="www.youtube.com"]www.youtube.com[/URL]
...without the spaces between URL. Just change the link within the ][ to whatever you want to call it. So that...
[U R L="www.youtube.com"]YouTube[/URL]
...will look like...
YouTube
Hope that helps!
Edit: Oh and, swordsaint, who or what is kirin_blaze?
Denzi
Smash Master
Congratulations, you're not as lazy as I am.
I think mine worked just as well
I think mine worked just as well
swordsaint
Smash Master
Allbrex
Smash Apprentice
That's a pretty Falco Swordsaint, and the Marth you were playing is very good. Just a couple of things I noted as a Marth player is that at 1:30 in the first match on BF you two were at a standstill and you started to SH lazer towards Marth and then tried a Fsmash, and also the last death on 4/4. As a Marth player I LOVE when Falco approaches me, I always want Falco at melee range. Since you never have to approach with Falco I'd keep that in mind. Another thing you could do that helps is when you dash attack, upsmash immediately afterwards, it's a quick combo and it just looks awesome. It also works great if you SH lazer first, like :16 seconds here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhtXOE_TiHs . Works very well when they're at lower percentages.
Lastly against Marth, a kill move that annoys me is when Falcos dsmash me since it's a horizontal kill move and Marths have a tough time recovering from that. Granted it's much more situational but definitely something to keep in mind as to avoid Usmashing too much. In 4/4 at 1:03 after him shielding your dair it would've been a good risk to take in that situation imo.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure that while Falco shouldn't approach Marth too much, if he gets up close, Falco shouldn't run away from Marth because once he gets in those first few hits on Marth, Falco can follow up and pressure well.
If you actually look at that video, DEHF is kind of playing Marth from a mid-range area so he can be close and punish everything he needs to, and once he gets that hit in, he tries to capitalise as much as possible.
Camping Marth a lot isn't always the best solution because he zones so well. I just approach really poorly most of the time.
If you actually look at that video, DEHF is kind of playing Marth from a mid-range area so he can be close and punish everything he needs to, and once he gets that hit in, he tries to capitalise as much as possible.
Camping Marth a lot isn't always the best solution because he zones so well. I just approach really poorly most of the time.
Allbrex
Smash Apprentice
Maybe I worded it wrong, I meant just at a standstill not to approach since you can force him into error easier with your lazers from that range. It was only two occasions that you did it in all 4 videos that I was talking about, beyond those 2 I liked your approach.
swordsaint
Smash Master
lol, don't worry. I always misunderstand people.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
I've been in Training Mode for 2 hours or so practicing proper SHDL and SHL, as well as the walking chaingrab and pivot grabbing. Pivot grabbing is hard, I can't quite tell when the exact moment is that I need to hit back+Z. Once I get all of this down well, however, I'll try it in some CPU matches, and then possibly get some more matches up against my friend with my new skills. It could take a few days though.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Make pivot grabbing your lowest priority for now. It's not the most important thing in the world.
Can I please get some critique people? I have a tournament this weekend, a major national no less.
Can I please get some critique people? I have a tournament this weekend, a major national no less.
Would any of you guys mind telling me what I did wrong in this first game? (ignore second game, I was tired and out of it).
I noticed a few mistakes but I wanted to see waht you guys thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhdwIy6lFI
I noticed a few mistakes but I wanted to see waht you guys thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhdwIy6lFI
Gah777
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
- Messages
- 1,053
Only had time to critique the first match of the first episode, i got mad homework to do.
0:00-0:04 you start seemed like it was predicted pretty easily, try mixing it up a bit.
0:04-0:08 bad idea doing an illusion cancel that short that close. It put you in a bad position, then your rolling got punished and put you at the ledge.
0:27 again, your illusion cancel got punished. If Marth is zoning at that kind of distance it would probably be better to do the full illusion
~0:54 there were several bad recoveries up to this point, all stopped by the Marth
1:32 Why are you approaching Marth?! Marths want YOU to approach. As you can see, your approach got punished. I would not recommend approaching at those percents, regardless of who has the lead (by 17% no less)
1:35 did you just momentum cancel with f-air?
1:41 revenge kills don’t always work. Marth just waited out your invincibility and punished your f-smash (which you probably shouldn’t do so much)
2:15 that’s the second time you up smashed after a spot dodge. You could have jab canceled a grab and threw him into a bad position instead. Jabbing after a spot dodge probably would have been the better option since it leaves you with only 4 frames of vulnerability.
2:21 he up b’d you out of you jab. If he was willing to do this now, he’d probably do this in the future, bait it with a single jab>shield (if that’s even doable)
2:42 would you have survived that if you hadn’t jumped immediately?
3:59 dude, he so baited that grab
These are only the things I noticed you got punished for. I’d say you need to use f-smash less, zone better, mix up your recoveries (you started doing this near the end of the first match), and get better with your illusion cancels.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Thanks, I'll go over the video now and see which parts you mentioned was just me being rusty like I was, or just not knowing what to do. Just so you know though, I can cancel my illusion cancels almost perfectly. They're so easy. I hadn't played in like 2-3 weeks before this tournament so my timing was a little off because I was a bit iffy under the pressure.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
Swordsaint (Falco) vs Shaya (Marth) 4
-It seemed like on Marth's first stock, you were determined to finish him off with an Usmash. He figured this out and was able to counter your efforts to take him out every time, and you racked up damage while he just kept shielding your attempts. Marth was nearing percents where a dash attack or Dtilt could have killed, so would it not have been better to try to switch up your approaches rather than just lasers->running Usmash?
-Around 5:45 you were recovering to the stage with a Phantasm, canceled it, and completely missed the stage. What was the point of this cancel? I'm fairly certain that even if Marth hadn't of been edge-guarding, you would have still missed the edge.
-It seemed like on Marth's first stock, you were determined to finish him off with an Usmash. He figured this out and was able to counter your efforts to take him out every time, and you racked up damage while he just kept shielding your attempts. Marth was nearing percents where a dash attack or Dtilt could have killed, so would it not have been better to try to switch up your approaches rather than just lasers->running Usmash?
-Around 5:45 you were recovering to the stage with a Phantasm, canceled it, and completely missed the stage. What was the point of this cancel? I'm fairly certain that even if Marth hadn't of been edge-guarding, you would have still missed the edge.
Swordsaint you need to laser a lot less, you tend to do it a lot when he's grounded when you should be doing it when he's in the air. When he was grounded you would hit him with some lasers, but he would hit you with side b or fair which does more damage and gives him momentum.
Practice the chain grab, you can do it 5 times from 0% and you usually only did 2. If you're able to do that consistently it'll make the match up so much more easier, Marth will be at 50+% rather than 30+%.
Whenever Marth does the third hit of side b into to your shield you should always be able to punish it. If you're facing him grab, if you're not short hop bair. Also, use bair more, it's Falco's best way of fighting against Marth in the air.
You let Shaya chip away at your shield too much at times and allowed him to shield poke you. Your Falco that shouldn't ever happen since you have an amazing spot dodge and above average rolls.
You need to mix up your recovery options more. 3rd game video Shaya wasn't able to punish your recovery most of the time, you should make sure it's like that for the entire set.
Practice the chain grab, you can do it 5 times from 0% and you usually only did 2. If you're able to do that consistently it'll make the match up so much more easier, Marth will be at 50+% rather than 30+%.
Whenever Marth does the third hit of side b into to your shield you should always be able to punish it. If you're facing him grab, if you're not short hop bair. Also, use bair more, it's Falco's best way of fighting against Marth in the air.
You let Shaya chip away at your shield too much at times and allowed him to shield poke you. Your Falco that shouldn't ever happen since you have an amazing spot dodge and above average rolls.
You need to mix up your recovery options more. 3rd game video Shaya wasn't able to punish your recovery most of the time, you should make sure it's like that for the entire set.
Kirin
Smash Journeyman
DEHF, I think he didn't do 5 because Marth can DS out of CG.
clowsui
Smash Legend
no, perfect buffer cg will allow you to get 5
Vlade
Social Outcast
Scott DO NOT approach Shaya whatsoever at Thriller or you will lose
Also, be smart with your IAPs. You seem to be following a bit of a pattern with them so try and avoid that and start observing your opponent's movements more.
EDIT: I'll rephrase. Do not COMMIT to an approach
Also, be smart with your IAPs. You seem to be following a bit of a pattern with them so try and avoid that and start observing your opponent's movements more.
EDIT: I'll rephrase. Do not COMMIT to an approach
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_dQY0nmM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2zaTEqSBs4
Ehhh mind helping me out here? I don't have much Lucario experience and I could use some help for the future.
I'm better than this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2zaTEqSBs4
Ehhh mind helping me out here? I don't have much Lucario experience and I could use some help for the future.
I'm better than this
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Ima just review match 1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_dQY0nmM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2zaTEqSBs4
Ehhh mind helping me out here? I don't have much Lucario experience and I could use some help for the future.
I'm better than this
You did well at the end, I admit that was some amazing surviving skill, but during the match you were predictable near the ledge (double jump to reflector is not a good sequence to repeat over and over.) And your reflector work could use some better spacing cause a lot of the time he was nearly in your face when you used it. Try getting Lucario in the air w/ grabs or dair more often for the kill cause Zucco obviously caught on to you a little when you kept trying usmash w/ no air work.
Overall, not bad. Zucco is legit, don't feel bad about losin' to him.
@BloodCross: you seemed to do a lot of unorthodox ledge tricks that seemed unnecessary. I usually play against Lucarios in tournaments, though they may not be as good as the one you played against. I'm just spam the sh*t out of my b-button, force them to approach and look for a free hit or grab. You tried to force the kill with the dacus, bringing me back to the laser camping game. Laser camp them to 200 if you have to, you'll find a better option to kill than trying to trick them into a bdacus.
I quoted myself because I really wanted other people's input and so far got none.
Willz
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inlvIp3rbfw
This is probably the most recent match I could find of my Falco where I played badly, so it should be easier to point out my mistakes and such so critique kthxbi =D
This is probably the most recent match I could find of my Falco where I played badly, so it should be easier to point out my mistakes and such so critique kthxbi =D