The Official Falco Critique Thread

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My method of critique is pretty time consuming, so I'll only do the first match.
Edit: I think the following may come across as too negative, but it should not seem that way. I am simply trying to point out faults and consequences of certain actions taken to make you reconsider more beneficial ones.

0:07 - I disagree with that roll you did just there. Generally, those type of rolls at that distance are the best type to punish because literally characters merely have to turn around to attack you. Thankfully, marth was just as scared in that moment (going into shield) as you were by his approach.
0:12 - Okay, after the Dthrow, you instantly go into a commitment with charging Fsmash. Marth has a variety of options against this that you simply cannot cover with charging fsmash. The best one simply being a jump over you. By committing to this option you are gambling that Marth will land in front of you instead of doing something else. It is generally better to wait and then react to their option. Its especially easy at this point to "react and deny" because you should know that after doing a dthrow at about what general distance they will be away from you. Since you were near the edge and on FD, all you would have to do after Dthrow is simply stand there and then react to what Marth does afterwards. Were you further away you would have to contemplate dashing after him to cover all options.
0:18 - Just letting you know that rapid jab against marth should be ill advised generally. He is one of the few characters who can routinely punish Falco for doing this. Thankfully again, your opponent does not seem to have the ability yet to react to his and punish you for it.
0:20 - I would like to point out that Marth was in shield just as you were coming down with a laser, so you shouldn't have gone into a shine. Even though it hit, you can see the result that you still got punish for using it. There are times where using it is fine, but this was not one of them as you should have noticed that marth was at point blank range in shield.
0:25 - Again, same situation I described earlier. Your charging of the fsmash after a dthrow surrenders falco's ability to cover all options (which he can) and your opponent gets away free by your 50/50 approach for a reward.
0:27 - Okay, consider this. You just got hit by Marth's DB. So after you got out of stun, your first move was jump. Whether this was accidental or on purpose I am not sure, but I want to point out that this was the wrong move to make. Marth was still in ending lag. You were very close to the ground. There is no way marth could have gotten to you at that point in time before you could have landed. This is a desirable position to be in where you are grounded and marth cannot be close enough to attack you. The position you put yourself in was worse because here you are above marth who is out of ending lag now and you have completely lost your 2nd jump. You have so few options to consider at this point compared to where you were if you had not jumped at all. You are a very easy target for marth to attack now. Thankfully again, Marth committed before waiting and you got out scott free.
0:32 - This last phantasm here is again committing before taking stock of what is really going on. The phantasm you did previously put marth into the ground with only 4 options that you could easily cover 3 of them. While he was down on the ground, you were in over 1/2 of ending lag. If you had been paying attention to marth, you would have registered in this 1/2 second "oh, marth is on the ground. I can cover a few options". Instead, you decide to phantasm over him while he was still downed on the ground, And the point where you popped out at was close enough for marth to have attacked you with his get-up attack.
0:40 - Okay, this situation you might have realized that going after marth offstage is a bad idea at this point. You are both falling at the same speed and you have no way of getting underneath him (falco cannot deal with direct confrontation in the air like where you were at). Instead, you could have backed up and got to the stage avoiding taking a risk, and keep marth pinned at the ledge. He would have to go to the ledge eventually with where he was going.
0:47 - I am not sure about this one. I think if you had reacted more quickly after Marth fsmashed your shield and properly did a dacus after dropping shield you might have gotten to him before his ending lag is over with. I am honestly not sure, but I would agree those are the sort of things you should be able to punish with a dacus. Laggy moves that hit your shield you can punish with dacus.
General Comment - Okay, I think you already know over the last several seconds for the first stock you threw out a lot of Usmashes (that did hit). So the over usage of Usmash was dragging out that stock. Usmash fresh will kill Marth approximately at 130% on that stage even with the best DI. But, you used the move as early as 110% and continued to use it to rack up damage all the way until over 170%. If you had stopped using Usmash for that 110%-130% and used other moves like lasers, jab, ftilt, you would have refreshed your Usmash by 130% and one Usmash would have been enough to have ended the stock there saving you a lot of hassle.
1:33 - Again, rapid jab should be punishable by Marth and it will be by more experienced players. At the very least, they will try and start making you question using that move.
1:48 - Why? Shine is not the thing to use here. The knockback and damage at that percent you get from even hitting with it is not worth it due to the ending lag. The consequence for NOT hitting with it is even more apparent. Your role of being in the advantage is instantly switched for having missed. Although, again you got out of it luckily.
1:59 - Finally Marth punished you for rapid jab.
2:07 - Okay, you get an usmash, you go for an Uair, it misses and now Marth is below you while you are above him. Do not drift towards him as you did. There was plenty of stage left over to drift away and you wouldn't risk having to landing on top of marth.
2:15 - Just pointing out another option. Marth is on the ground for a long time. You are in the air for a long time, you already used your 2nd jump. Its pretty obvious where you are going to be landing due to your drifting and you have no jump to suddenly make a sharp turn. You do however have phantasm. If you expect him to make a read, you could try phantasming high to get yourself to the other side of the stage. Not as useful on final destination, but more applicable to stages with platforms where falco can land on them.
2:19 - Take a look at the distance between you are marth. You two were way too far apart to consider using your 2nd jump like that. 2nd jump is your recovery pretty much since UpB sucks. Don't waste it preemptively like that.
2:28 - Okay, you just hit Marth twice with a double laser hit. When he lands, he should be scared of what you could be doing. Don't use that chance by rolling directly in front of him. Waiting outside of his range or rushing in with a dash attack would have been more preferred since you could take advantage of it because of his stun time or rely upon the fact that marth will probably panic and commit to some action like an attack or rolling or staying in shield.
 

kismet2

Smash Ace
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Critique time ^_^

Game 1:

0:24-After a dthrow like that it's best to use jab1 to see what they're going to do. If they DI towards you and end up above you then you can cover their landing with Dair, Nair, Utilt, regrab. If they DI away then cancel jab1 and continue to dash forward. From here you have the option to shield to see if your opponent will throw out an aerial, airdodge, or jump.

0:34, 0:41, 0:46, 0:53, 0:57-Here I just want to give good example of where your rolls should be applied. In these you would try to throw out a spotdodge into something else. Falco's spotdodge is good but shouldn't be abused if the opponent isn't biting. You didn't jab1/2>spotdodge>jab or set it up to give Hanz something to think about. In situations like this it's best to roll away, you keep the lead and you can throw more lasers.

2:34-When you throw out aerials, move your character to find the right space where they can't simply punish it. If you were to retreat that Nair he wouldn't have grabbed you and took your stock, he still had a punish(Fsmash, Fair, Dtilt) but it would've been much weaker than taking a whole stock.

Game 2:

0:24-Fsmashing here is really reaching for it. You have dash attack(frame4 and Ftilt(frame6) to punish opponents quickly.

1:00-Nothing wrong with this scenario, I just really liked the jab1 frametrap. =P

And that's it! You were definitely feeling it 2nd game and started to play more comfortably. Keep in mind about your tilts and spacing your aerials. You understand how to use jab well but with tilts you can gain more control over situations. Utilt starts/continues juggles and Ftilt lets you poke with the option of moving forward to follow up on the opponent, it really helps with positioning. Watch it with those spotdodges! XD You used roll more in the 2nd game and knew how to move around with it while putting your opponent into a 50/50, good stuff. Last piece of advice is to learn more of Falco's hit confirms(attacks that are guaranteed to go into another one for a potential combo). It's nice to be able to know when something is guaranteed without putting much thought into it haha.

You're good, keep it up. =) It's ok to be nervous and after a while you'll get used to it if you continue to play. Just remember that tournaments will be tournaments, players will be players, and characters will be characters.
 

Igneel

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
11
First, Thank you both for the critiques I really appreciate what you did, and i don't think that is negative .... Thanks, and I hope you have liked my character ...
I will show other battles in another tournament and will be hoping his criticism
:)
 

Raven¤

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
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what stages, are counter pick to Falco, and what stages are positive or advantage to falco?.
Exist a list of stages counter pick for all characters?
 

kismet2

Smash Ace
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Falco can control both vertical and horizontal space very well with his jabs, jumps, and lasers. His good stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, and Pokemon Stadium 1. His alright stages are Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Halberd, and Delfino. Slants and Slopes don't hurt him too much since Phantasm is only really used to get you out of corners. Larger stages are his strongest choices since it makes it harder for the opponent to catch him.

PokeMastr made a stage list thread for falco(here), it talks about strengths and weaknesses for the stages he's done. You should check it out I'm sure you'll find something you're looking for. ^_^ Also if you have questions, this is the thread for that. XD
 

kismet2

Smash Ace
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Critique time =)

Game 1
What really messed you up was your commitment. It seemed like you didn't know when to strike or find opportunities to strike against Tinman.
5:47:08: After you Baired him you could've pushed him further back with Reflector. I understand that you were going for the Fsmash but it's difficult to Fsmash Olimar out of his Up B(Unless you know the timing of course). Not only that, Olimar is much weaker in the air and more open to attacks.
5:47:34: He Naired you then dashed away from you. That whole time you were shielding and not taking advantage of Falco's laser. For players that try to space or keep away from Falco give enough time for lasers to be thrown. At that point an opponent that will want to stop will go in but that's where you jab1/2/3 to keep them guessing.
5:47:44: He does the retreating Nair again and you hold your shield. Shielding is good but there are times when your opponent will try to bait that reaction from you. Falco has jab to control space as well as Ftilt and Dair. You really want your opponent to shield more and slow down a bit, you want to be the one in control. Also after that you went for the Usmash when you both were in neutral, good characters still have to setup and bait for kills. XD You can do that from jab2 frametraps, juggling/Uair frametraps, edgeguarding, or you can wait it out and build percents if your opponent chooses not to approach.
5:48:40-5:49:08:You were probably feeling impatient because I really didn't see you spacing yourself with lasers from long range or working that range at all. You chased him to the ends of the earth and Tinman knew how to answer all of those situations, he played very well. On your last stock this match you made a real habit from airdodging to the ground after he put you into the air, be careful of that because if the opponent sees it they will capitalize.

Game 2
Wow...not much to say here seeing that you took a convincing win haha. Didn't rely on your defensive options as much(shielding/spotdodge) and giving Tinman less breathing room. You also acknowledged what was wrong and didn't fall for his shield baits. Alot more patience coming from you this time and made very good decisions. ^_^

Game 3
My favorite match of the set! You were able to find that spot near Olimar to apply some serious pressure. Damaging mixups from jabs and dthrow were able to put you back in the game.
5:56:27: You tried to dash in and shield to grab Tinman's landing but he drifted towards you at the last minute for a crossup. If that happens then buffer some turn jabs/grabs or getting away by jumping and phantasm.

Summary:
Overall you played great! I'm sure you thrown out of a couple airdodges/spotdodges in the beginning of the set from thinking that he may followup when he was given the opportunity. But as the set progressed you applied good mixups to condition Tinman and found his patterns.

Btw keep using the ledgehop(Rain) lasers, they're too good haha.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
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teloutre
First thing : you end your IAPs way too close to Olimar, you're fully open to punishment in this position.

Second thing : AUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH STOP WITH THOSE JUMP INS. FFS. They cost you game 1 and could have cost you game 3.

Third thing : I approve of the wii's owner musical tastes, touhou music everywhere.

2 Advices :
-Camp Olimar more, the dude's completely free once he has his own pikmins on his head
-Don't try to force the Usmash too much, especially if Olimar is on the ground. It may be only my personnal case but I find it way easier to kill Olimar with Fsmash when he's landing, especially when the ledge is close.
 

1PokeMastr

Smash Champion
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Dec 10, 2009
Messages
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Game 1 I was pissed because I messed up the CG so badly.
D-Throw -> Buffer B-Throw -> Poke swears outloud.

Which explains why I started spamming Usmash.

Luckily V115/ Chris Fisch were behind me telling me to calm down, and it's okay.
It REALLY helped me out.


Thanks for the critique! ^-^
 
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My usual critique method didn't work with that format.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4BBq8Rm20w
Then the video copying didn't come out as I wanted it too. Oh, well.

0:00 - Random thought. Olimar is one of the only characters that will likely waste time in the same routinely manner at the start of a match by plucking pikmin So, attempts at a surprise Phantasm right off the bat might be something worth considering. I wish I could quote some frame data on it being guaranteed if they go for all plucks, but I have to go off of experience on this one.
0:11 - Oh, you dirty bird with that taunt on your messed up CG. Guess he deserved it.
0:36 - These first few seconds felt like you were rushing far too much. Chasing after Olimar and overreaching when you shouldn't been doing so. At this point, you try coming at Olimar with a SH Dair. Fine if you cross up over Olimar or retreat, but not in this context where you are literally stretching to barely make it.
1:07 - At this point, you already saw Olimar lose his 2nd jump. Kismet had the idea of Shine. I didn't think of that (might have been whistled possibly). My thought against these sorts of characters are grab the ledge from Olimar to force him on stage since he wasn't getting on stage without grabbing the ledge or using UpB. That little bit of landing lag is enough to punish typically. In this case, you actually could have KO'd Olimar since he would have tried to UpB the ledge from above the stageline.
1:24 - By this time, I am seeing far too many long distance phantasm approaches.
1:40 - I am going to take a guess and say you went for a buffered Dacus (getting the dash attack instead). This might be worth an attempt after you see an opponent DI away multiple times on Dthrow, but otherwise it will never work against DI UP. Dash after for the initial dthrow, then react after you see the DI. Don't go for those buffered Dacus.
1:45-2:20 - Quite glad this olimar was punishing you very hard for all your Usmash attempts. You went from 66% to death and did 2% on olimar. If you were really upset about a mistake earlier, you need to work on that. As soon as you **** up, don't care and move on. Think about the next thing you need to do. Your Usmash misses, think about DI right away. Stuff like that. Always one instant at a time.
3:05 - Bair missed. You put yourself in landing lag by using Dair and kept drifting towards him. There felt like amble time to realize Olimar was going left and you had time to drift right.
3:07 - Here you always seem to DI into and use air dodge after a low percent grab attempt.
3:09 - 2nd jump early wasn't needed at this point. Save it phantasm further from the stage to avoid those fsmash attempts.

And that last Usmash from olimar was surprising to see it hit o.0
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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On most stages, it takes 9 frame to pluck 1 pikmin. I'm not sure about IASA frames for plucking multiple at once, but not many things can cross the stage in 27 frames.
 
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Falco is one of them lol At least the hitbox for IAP is somewhere around that amount of time. I thought it was out at 25, 26, 27 or something like that. However, only useful on battlefield and smashville where the starting locations are much closer and you cross up the characters from the initial starting points.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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Frame 17, but I don't know if you guys have to jumpsquat first and maybe you need to get a little closer to hit olimar's starting position.
 
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Oh, then nevermind. I was including the jump squat bit. Without you would hit olimar for certain. And as I said, on smashville and battlefield phantasm will cross-up olimar from the starting positions.
 

Veeonix

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 24, 2011
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Kingman AZ
Looks like your Falco has some of the basics down. That's a good start. Your aerial game was pretty solid in both rounds. Lasers are decent, but could use a little work with altitude (you want your second laser from the SHDL to run low enough to hit short characters like Olimar when they are standing on the ground). Good use of U-Tilt too. Falco players should use that more often, give how fast it is.

On the flip side, it seems like there is a few things you need to work on as well. First off, you need to stop rolling behind Olimar. Falco doesn't have the worst roll, that is true. But it isn't that great either. It is easily readable, especially if you keep using it the same way. You rolled behind Olimar more times than I can keep track of. While it may work as a mix up from time to time, it is a bit risky. The more times you do it, the more obvious it becomes. You were still rolling behind him when you were 95%+. This means a simple pivot up-smash can take your stock. Try to find other ways to approach.

When ledge guarding an opponent, try to look for other mixups as well. 90% of the time, you go for F-smash. While it is a good option at the ledge, it's also not going to work every time. It wasn't until your last stock that I saw you trying something else (F-tilt). Falco has a tremendous amount of good options when the opponent is on the ledge. F-tilt is fast and has good reach. It can be tilted down to catch characters on the ledge after their invincibility frames run out. Deflector is good against opponent's that want to jump-attack for their recovery options. D-Smash is only a few frames and kills some characters instantly (like Marth, who dies if at that angle/position on the screen. Jump + Dolphin is not enough to live). Sometimes something as simple as Jab can be devastating. Most characters don't have an aerial that beats Falco's 2 Frame Jab. It has long reach, and eats the opponent's jump. This means for characters like Olimar, all you have to do is grab the ledge instantly after hitting him with Jab. He has no jump to recover. He has Up-B. Sure, he may get a free hit if you don't time your ledge grab well, but who cares. It's a good trade for his stock. When characters jump high to recover, your Nair has a long hitbox and is very fast. It can catch the opponent and push them back off stage.

When recovering against a slow moving character like Olimar, consider his position on the stage before recovering. An Olimar near center stage cannot possibly ledge-hog you. If you Illusion to the ledge, you are safe. If Olimar is on the actual ledge waiting for you, you can Illusion way higher than normal and land on stage. This should put you out of his Up-air range, even if he jumps to pursue. If he is near the edge of the stage, you're at a disadvantage. It comes down to who makes the better call on who comes out on top. The reason I bring this up, is because you kept using Illusion directly into Olimar when he was near mid-stage and getting punished. It would have been safe to just catch the ledge instead in many of those situations.

Finally, you need to remind the Olimar player just what Falco can do. You only got the chain grab 1 stock out of 6 (of those 2 rounds). Sure the Olimar player played well in avoiding it in the match on Battlefield. He used the platforms well, and made you come to him. However, on Smashville, he doesn't have the same defensive options. When both you and Olimar are at 0% on a stock, there is no real reason to run to the opposite side of the stage and out camp him. A good Olimar is probably going to out-camp a good Falco. If the Olimar breaks your approach, he gets 25-30% give or take for a low-percent combo with D-Throws and Fair/U-Smash. Falco gets 45-75% and possibly gets a spike/stock from his low percent combos. He should be fearing you far more than you are fearing him at low percents. You can always play more conservatively after you are at 80% when you are approaching KO range from his U-Smash.

Good stuff though. Keep practicing. The Olimar matchup is tough. Use lots of Jabs (he can't do anything about it) and soft/fast hits work better than slow/strong ones. You only need a Bair at 60% to push him off stage to get a stock. Also, Olimar's game is cut to like 1/4 of what it is normally, once he is in the air instead of near the ground.
 

me9595

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
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177
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Michigan
thanks, i was watching that matching wondering about the amount of rolls that i was doing when i realized it was a bad habit i got from playing my friends olimar. when i rolled behind him i would just always get a free jab and he never punished it. also in the first match on battlefield, would it have been a better idea to just phantasm right away instead of just lasering if i was sure he was going to stay on the platform, or should i just stay with the safer option and just laser a couple of times
 

1PokeMastr

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
2,252
I'll critique later today.

Critique:

0:18 - You Naired when there weren't any Pikmin on you, and it wasn't used in a form of pressure either. Don't Nair if there aren't any Pikmin on you. You don't need to guess when they'll be tossed at you.

0:30 - You SHL at point blank. Then F-Tilt at point blank. F-Tilt is best used when spaced, in these situations very close to Olimar, Jab or Grab him.. You also went to grab after the F-Tilt. It's not jab :<

** You don't need to momentum cancel if you aren't going to die, it leaves you open to being punished ** (I have this habit too)

** You've been using Side B a lot, but without any lasers, and you're getting punished for the Side Bs. Only use that move when he's throwing Pikmin at you because it leaves him open for a short amount of time **

** Laser more against him, Olimar outcamps Falco, yes. But SHL's really mess him up, same as SHDL's when he jumps **

1:22 - You're lucky the reflector tripped him. Or else you would have been combo'd by Olimar right after, it's not the safest of options.

1:24 - You approach with a dash shdl and get grabbed. SHDL = Long range. SHL = Short range/ approach mix up.

1:38 - You rapid jab and get away with it, then roll behind him. Why ? You had so many other options. You could have done Jabx2 -> Jabx2 or Grab/ whatever. You're also lucky he didn't SDi and Fair you for that.

1:47 - Lucky missed punish again. Quit Side B'ing like that, you'll get wrecked if they catch on.

Air dodge -> Spotdoge is like telling Olimar to **** you, for free. STOP IT.
You can Air dodge -> Jab/ Nair in toward him (beats out Usmash).
Or even run up and shield to try and force a reaction out of him on his landings/ trying to get in.

Stop rolling. Pivot Grab beats it, so does making it obvious you roll a lot. Fsmash/ Dsmash/ Usmash can be used to punish your rolls hard. Esepcially when you roll toward him.

2:20 - You laser him when you had a ledge hog gimp. You let him on stage for free. Pressure that Olimar! He didn't even have his Jump! You gave away a free kill just like that! He whistled because he thought you'd run off Bair him or try to spike him. Ga derp. Even if he made it back.. You still missed out on a good punish.

2:26 - See second above comment in bold :3

2:32 - Luck, Derp. That was the slowest thing I've ever seen. He could have grabbed/ Usmashed you on the ps'd Jab2 - Especially because you tried to dash grab him afterward. Never dash grab unless it's for a CG.

2:48 - On stage for free again.

2:54 - SH Reflector approach - WHY ? You got grabbed. Then almost lost your stock. Why ?

Don't laser pointlessly you're not trying to juggle him or frame trap him on his landings, you're just telling him to land with no negative consequences.

3:16 - 3:31 - Not saying anything on this except.. WHY?! And when you do get in..you rapid jab.. you let him get out with ease - roll into him and get Fsmashed.

Stop reflectoring, it's only good for reflecting purples.

3:36 - Lucky Side B - He read it too.

3:40 - Reflector again AND you got Usmashed. Thank god it wasn't a purple.

Game 2!


Rapid Jab to Roll! And you get Fsmashed right off the bat.

4:44 - Luckiest thing ever. Also it doesn't Kill Olimar until about 118% - And you go for it at 90% :< Then you let him on for free and get Usmashed.

Please stop trying to Fsmash his get up option. It's not going to work everytime.

5:04 - You're lucky you didn't die there.

5:14 - Death by rolling :D

5:30 - Please stop trying to Fsmash his get up option. It's not going to work everytime. Also on stage for free again each time you do that.

5:37 - Please stop trying to Fsmash his get up option. It's not going to work everytime.

Please stop jumping over his head. You get Usmashed that way.

98% - You try to Usmash and get Usmashed to death :3

You're better off killing Olimar with Bair/ Uair/U-Tilt or Gimping him than you are with smash attacks.

Loved the final moments. Fail Punishes one after another by both players and you forgot you lost your jump :D

Hope this Helps (I play TinMan quite a bit).
 

Veeonix

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 24, 2011
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Kingman AZ
Many situations aren't cut and dry answers. There is many things to consider. Like, are you up? are you down? Can you afford a gamble? Have you been playing aggressively so far? Have you been playing defensively so far? Is the risk worth the reward? As far as mixups and move choice, that really is upto the player. There is more than one answer to what the "right move" is. For instance, any time that tempo remains neutral and you are even or winning against your opponent, any move you perform that doesn't cause you to take damage or be removed from the stage, is a 'free' move. These 'free' moves are all the 'right' moves. It doesn't matter if you are doing shield pressure, spacing, eating the clock, or making your opponent hesitate or think. As long as you are not losing ground, nothing you do is technically wrong. However, some options are better than others.
 
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On the flip side, it seems like there is a few things you need to work on as well. First off, you need to stop rolling behind Olimar. Falco doesn't have the worst roll, that is true. But it isn't that great either. It is easily readable, especially if you keep using it the same way. You rolled behind Olimar more times than I can keep track of. While it may work as a mix up from time to time, it is a bit risky. The more times you do it, the more obvious it becomes. You were still rolling behind him when you were 95%+. This means a simple pivot up-smash can take your stock. Try to find other ways to approach.

Well, another important component is recognizing that some people are just going to let you get away with stuff for awhile. If that happens, there is no need to stop. With a set your first match will be to size up quickly what happens, then you can start adjusting some decisions later on. Or better yet as the match is still progressing.

When ledge guarding an opponent, try to look for other mixups as well. 90% of the time, you go for F-smash. While it is a good option at the ledge, it's also not going to work every time. This means for characters like Olimar, all you have to do is grab the ledge instantly after hitting him with Jab. He has no jump to recover. He has Up-B. Sure, he may get a free hit if you don't time your ledge grab well, but who cares. It's a good trade for his stock. When characters jump high to recover, your Nair has a long hitbox and is very fast. It can catch the opponent and push them back off stage.

First two sentences, I disagree with that. Edgeguarding shouldn't be something you mix-up and risk on a gamble. You want to try picking the best options available and react to whatever it is your opponent picks. Charging Fsmash at the ledge is a bad option to pick. Both of you should be paying attention to the other and constantly adjusting what you do next by whatever they are doing or could possibly be doing. If you are at the ledge you can see someone charging Fsmash and be like "oh, I'll wait this out, then punish the ending lag from the ledge". The only time its advisable to do something like charge fsmash is when you recognize habits.

Otherwise, you want to try avoiding committing to something as much as possible if you can. By committing, I mean performing an action of any kind that restricts you from doing anything else. So, shield, grab, aerial, dodge, teching are commitment because as soon as you perform it you can no longer do anything until the animation is over with. Its better to just short hop or stand/walk into an appropriate spacing until you see them do something from the ledge. If you are at a proper spacing, you can just wait until they do something. If your opponent is doing something on the ledge you can typically just out right beat it. For example, Marth let's go from the ledge with Fair, then UpBs to the ledge. lol You grab the ledge from them during that whole time between ledge and Fair&UpB.


Many situations aren't cut and dry answers. There is many things to consider. Like, are you up? are you down? Can you afford a gamble? Have you been playing aggressively so far? Have you been playing defensively so far? Is the risk worth the reward? As far as mixups and move choice, that really is upto the player. There is more than one answer to what the "right move" is. For instance, any time that tempo remains neutral and you are even or winning against your opponent, any move you perform that doesn't cause you to take damage or be removed from the stage, is a 'free' move. These 'free' moves are all the 'right' moves. It doesn't matter if you are doing shield pressure, spacing, eating the clock, or making your opponent hesitate or think. As long as you are not losing ground, nothing you do is technically wrong. However, some options are better than others.
Might be easier to think of it as there are something you just shouldn't do period. While other times you have a couple decent selections to choose from. Even then, you can typically think that there was a better thing do have done.

How might you finish a chain grab against MK? Well, there are actually quite a few options, but after a little thought ending the spike on stage is clearly the best thing to do. Ending with say fsmash just puts MK up in the air with lots of stuff to do. Ending with Spike offstage makes it quiet unlikely to convert off MK below the ledge. Otherwise, ending with spike on stage near the ledge forces MK into a tech position. He suddenly has only 4 options. All of which are not dangerous to you and all covered by Falco as well.
 

DEHF

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
2,262
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reseda CA
NNID
larrlurr
Blah, this thread hasn't been used in awhile but you guys can critique this for me if you'd like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rURPYVFKg"

Sound quality is pretty ***, sorry.
You need to be careful with your usage of short hop aerials as an approach. Although the Sheik player did not do anything against it, they're very punishable on shield. It's much better to bait your opponent into something using your short hops compared to going in with them.

You use ftilt more than any Falco I've seen, which isn't horrible, since that move is a fairly safe attack, but there are certain situations where it would be better to use a different move. An example would be to use your grab at mid/high percent, which I think you rarely used outside of chain grab percent. His down throw has very strong follow up options and you can also refresh your moves using Falco's pummel while holding your opponent. Dash attack is also another attack you can use in replace of ftilt in certain situations since it's such a damaging move when you gatling combo with it.
 

HeadofHudet

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
66
Location
Oslo, Norway
Switch FC
5259-5066-0804
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pl0qHGL8hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSdrsH7Y8Oc

unfortunately wifi is the best I could get for now but any tips would still be very much appreciated if anyone wants to help a determined Falco get ready for Apex :D
Lol, how bad was the delay? Looks like you both had a lot of trouble linking moves by First Actionable Frame and stuff. That and other obvious wifi typical things like patg DI is not much to be adviced about, except that there are a few things that you need to have in your fingers, more than what you react on by the visual. By that, I mean that stuff like flawless SHDL, SHL, Gattling combo, side b "cancels" and jab cancel should be easy online as well, because the more tricks you can do by finger memory, the more you can focus on your opponent rather than your own character, which helps a lot.

I don't know how much of your tactics that are changed by lag or what you just misspaced due to the lag, but using side b back on stage while fox is standing in the middle is a nono in every situation. Side b to the ledge works best unless you can see that he's got time to edgeguard, and even THEN you have to make the read whether he chooses to do a punishing move on stage or whether he chooses to grab the ledge. But if he's standing in the middle of the stage, it's only one option he can punish, and that's side b on stage. It's very easy done, and I've seen a lot of falcos do that uneccessarily both at top play and other places. It's a thing to keep calm and focus about simple things like that, because falco gets punished VERY hard if he does one misstake recovering.
Another thing is that I saw you approaching with jump laser (probably meant to be SHL/SHDL), which is pretty risky in itself. SHDL works best while retreating or if he's far off. You're playing against fox, and offline you would get punished severely if you jumped towards him at mid range.
A last thing I'd like to add, is that you should hold your shield finger close vs fox at any time. His most dangerous moves are quick, but can can be dangerous for him if you time your shield right, because getting killed by dair-setups, like you did, should be avoided at all costs. Without them, you will most likely be able to live at the same percentage as he, which changes the odds drastically in your favor. But fox likes to crossover as well, so turn->grab from shield should be something you oughta be able to do quickly too, because moves like dair is very lagless.

What I liked about the way you played him was the way you were able to juggle him. Fox doesn't have a very good aerial mobility, so standing on ground with a shield grab ready as you did worked great. Sometimes, a spaced bair can be good to throw out as well, but I think you handled the juggle well.

Not sure if you already knew these things but just weren't able to do it on wifi, but this is of what I could judge from your games. I don't know if I gave you the best hints and stuff, because I'm at a loss of experience vs many good foxes, myself, but I'm pretty sure that my brainstorming is usually correct, and that if you did all these things, you would be a few levels higher before apex.
 
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
6
Location
New Jersey, US
Lol, how bad was the delay? Looks like you both had a lot of trouble linking moves by First Actionable Frame and stuff. That and other obvious wifi typical things like patg DI is not much to be adviced about, except that there are a few things that you need to have in your fingers, more than what you react on by the visual. By that, I mean that stuff like flawless SHDL, SHL, Gattling combo, side b "cancels" and jab cancel should be easy online as well, because the more tricks you can do by finger memory, the more you can focus on your opponent rather than your own character, which helps a lot.

I don't know how much of your tactics that are changed by lag or what you just misspaced due to the lag, but using side b back on stage while fox is standing in the middle is a nono in every situation. Side b to the ledge works best unless you can see that he's got time to edgeguard, and even THEN you have to make the read whether he chooses to do a punishing move on stage or whether he chooses to grab the ledge. But if he's standing in the middle of the stage, it's only one option he can punish, and that's side b on stage. It's very easy done, and I've seen a lot of falcos do that uneccessarily both at top play and other places. It's a thing to keep calm and focus about simple things like that, because falco gets punished VERY hard if he does one misstake recovering.
Another thing is that I saw you approaching with jump laser (probably meant to be SHL/SHDL), which is pretty risky in itself. SHDL works best while retreating or if he's far off. You're playing against fox, and offline you would get punished severely if you jumped towards him at mid range.
A last thing I'd like to add, is that you should hold your shield finger close vs fox at any time. His most dangerous moves are quick, but can can be dangerous or him if you time your shield right, because getting killed by dair-setups, like you did, should be avoided at all costs. Without them, you will most likely be able to live at the same percentage as he, which changes the odds drastically in your favor. But fox likes to crossover as well, so turn->grab from shield should be something you oughta be able to do quickly too, because moves like dair is very lagless.

What I liked about the way you played him was the way you were able to juggle him. Fox doesn't have a very good aerial mobility, so standing on ground with a shield grab ready as you did worked great. Sometimes, a spaced bair can be good to throw out as well, but I think you handled the juggle well.

Not sure if you already knew these things but just weren't able to do it on wifi, but this is of what I could judge from your games. I don't know if I gave you the best hints and stuff, because I'm at a loss of experience vs many good foxes, myself, but I'm pretty sure that my brainstorming is usually correct, and that if you did all these things, you would be a few levels higher before apex.
yeah like you said wifi does definitely change things a lot but I dont like to make excuses for myself either way so hearing these tips will definitely help both offline and online so thank you very much :)
 
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
6
Location
New Jersey, US
I got some more if anyone is interested. Sorry to spam so many. Also I feel I should note I recorded mostly matches that I feel I made the most mistakes in or had habits get the best of me in so that it would be easier to find tips on what to do instead. sorry again for the long list but help is very much appreciated if anyone ha spare time. (oh and theyre offline this time lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jNkMGP_ubw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI1kS4cHzfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2OMBIXiWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIT_zZpCS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf4iMJN2LVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4WrqP36rQA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqq0E1OhK2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnEiXg6Ew8
 
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