The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[PieDisliker]

Marth's Disadvantages: MK, D3, and maybe Snake.
Wario's Disadvantages: MK, Marth, and Peach.

But MK is worse against Marth than Wario. Peach also isn't seen in tournies as much so matchups do seem to slide in Wario's favor. The only other factor would be tourney results, and... Marth has been winning more (*cough* cause he's used more *cough*).

 

[Dark 3nergy]

lmfao what a child

Yeah, continue being sad. Biased prick.

well if you really wanted to fry his bacon just remind him his BBF Zelda is a piece of **** now in the shame of triforce tier

 

[Xyro77]

That's terrible logic he's not a safe pick at all when he's worst match ups are the most played characters in tournament making him virtually unplayable because he gets wrecked by Snake and MK goes evin with Diddy Wario and Falco. Marth overall is just theorycraft without the results to prove it =/.



So Shaya isn't in the BBR my mistake.... Or does he not count as a Marth main?

TBH, it is clear you do not play high level marth players(u live in NJ, do you play neo any?). I happen to live 20min away from one of the top 3 marths in the country(royr). Pierce not only MAINS marth but he sees and plays Neo(top 3 marth) nearly every **** tournament. Dehf(sbr member) and many other SBR members see or play MikeHaze(top 3 marth) ALOT. I assure you we KNOW what we are talking about when it comes to marth. Shaya does use marth and we do listen to him when he adds his input but with all of the ^above mentioned.....Marth is an amazing character.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

its ok MK, imma let you finish
but Zelda had the BIGGEST DROP
OF ALL TIME

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Marth mains think they go pretty close with Snake. I would agree.

MK is Marth's biggest problem, but you could say the same about Dedede. Or Snake. Or Wario. Or IC's lol. MK is a LOT of people's worst or biggest obvious problem matchup even in the top tier. Saying "Oh well Marth loses to MK so it's irrelevant" is dumb since MK does that to most of the top tier (even if it's only 6:4 against them)

Some marths think they go even with snake but that remains to be seen. I've seen neo say that marth loses to snake. But hell what do I know. Once again that results thread is pretty meh when for all those tourney place this isn't a marth main ranked higher than a Wario main in the character rankings the only marth in the top 50 is pierce.....so once again I ask you why is Marth going up and other characters put below him? Yeah......

@ xyro how do you know who I've played?

 

[zeldspazz]

By the way, even though most of the attention is on Zelda and Pit and whatnot, Id like to say I dont see many people talking about top tier much.

I give major props to SBR for making a very good ordered high tier even though I believe mid/low is jumbled up.

 

[DMG]

I reminded them that when discussing the characters and the tier list, that Ledge Grab Limits/other stuff was not included. Regardless of how they felt, I was just telling them this is the scope we are discussing stuff.

Trust me, People who had no problem with planking, also talked as if we were factoring in a Ledge Grab Rule/something similar, despite them clearly opposing such a rule being used.

We discussed implementing a Ledge Grab rule a bit ago (not sure if it is over or ongoing or what). I'm sure regardless of the decision, we will inform people what we think (if we say no, mention that we discussed it and that that was our decision instead of mentioning nothing).

 

[PieDisliker]

I still don't know why DK didn't move up.

Have you guys seen his placings? I've seen DK's do so well in tournies lately. Ook, Cable, and Will are representing well.

 

[Albert.]

what? ? Last thing NEO said on the MU is that Marth beats snake.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

By the way, even though most of the attention is on Zelda and Pit and whatnot, Id like to say I dont see many people talking about top tier much.

I give major props to SBR for making a very good ordered high tier even though I believe mid/low is jumbled up.

its probably due to them being nicely developed, while the lower end of the list is possibly not so much. Its not surprising really. It doesnt really change the fact either that i still like playing Zelda.

 

[Albert.]

I still don't know why DK didn't move up.

Have you guys seen his placings? I've seen DK's do so well in tournies lately. Ook, Cable, and Will are representing well.

Yes, in places where the DDD CG is limited/banned

 

[Xyro77]

Some marths think they go even with snake but that remains to be seen. I've seen neo say that marth loses to snake. But hell what do I know. Once again that results thread is pretty meh when for all those tourney place this isn't a marth main ranked higher than a Wario main in the character rankings the only marth in the top 50 is pierce.....so once again I ask you why is Marth going up and other characters put below him? Yeah......

OHHHHH so the deal is that u are pissed wario is below marth by ONE spot??


WHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAH!

 

[Dark 3nergy]

because not being 3rd anymore makes a whole world of difference

 

[zeldspazz]

its probably due to them being nicely developed, while the lower end of the list is possibly not so much. Its not surprising really. It doesnt really change the fact either that i still like playing Zelda.

I know it's not surprising, but Im just saying those so much complaining around this thread I thought Id put something out there that I believe the SBR did very well.

 

[PieDisliker]

Yes, in places where the DDD CG is limited/banned

...so tournies where D3 cg banned weren't considered?

I mean... you see it everywhere these days.

 

[zeldspazz]

The SBR used their ruleset. Their ruleset doesnt ban the CG, therefore it would reflect on the tier list. Its pretty simple >_>

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I know it's not surprising, but Im just saying those so much complaining around this thread I thought Id put something out there that I believe the SBR did very well.

its only natural my dear; when you get alot of high tier characters coming in and giving you plenty of new data/results to look at it makes for much much more fleshed out tier list. So yes i agree it looks good.

I think the other question would be why do others absolutely hate it? I asked a few people itt why, but never got a 5 page essay back

 

[PieDisliker]

I get that DK gets wrecked by D3, CG or not.

He's still a reliable counterpick and I'd see him to move up 1-3 spots because of how he does against common characters like Snake, Marth, etc. He actually doesn't have that many bad matchups. I can only think of D3, Wario, and ICs off of the top of my head. Maybe Pikachu. A DK can win a tourney easily with a good secondary. DK is also used as a secondary is many cases... he's kinda up there with Kirby in a way.

---
now I'm kinda just draining off into my words.

 

[zeldspazz]

Because of character bias really.

Low Tier mains know what their low tier can do, but not many other people really know. Therefore almost everybody has a different perspective on how the lower tiers should looked based on their experience. I for one think Samus is far worse than Zelda but come on, I cant really be for sure because 1) we've got people like Xyro beasting it up and 2) how often do you actually get to play a top level samus? I just know what Zelda can do and talk to top level Zelda so where I place her is highly effected. You cant use tournament results either because clearly the SBR doesnt take them into consideration for the ordering of low tiers. We've got Bowser not even in low tier anymore and he has some of the worst tournament results out of anyone last time I checked, they just have Vex who used to beast with him.

Low Tier will always be jumbled, its just the fact of the matter.

 

[Moozle]

I'm kind of surprised with Pit moving up that much. Any specific reason he moved up four places?

Can someone answer this? I'm still kind of confused :3


And Lucario definitely deserved to move up, he is really good.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The SBR was clearly influence by one or two showings of a character like Haze at evo and meep at VC i'm surprised olimar didn't vault into the top 5-7 spots after after pound 4 but whatever IDC anymore BBR is just bad at making tier list.

 

[PieDisliker]

Low Tiers lose to Pokemon Trainer. It was said in the OP.

Sonic, Ness, and Bowser are legitly low tiers.

 

[da K.I.D.]

@bcb

if you admit that a character needs to use a secondary to do anything worthwhile than you are admitting that said character is bad.

also, sonic and ness arent low tier, ness would be really good if he didnt get grab gayed, and even with that, people still manage to get impressive results with him, for proof, look at your own regions PR.

Bowsers really bad tho.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

@bcb

if you admit that a character needs to use a secondary to do anything worthwhile than you are admitting that said character is bad.

in hien sight this means DDD is bad thus switch to MK for FLAWLESS VICTORY

 

[PieDisliker]

@bcb

if you admit that a character needs to use a secondary to do anything worthwhile than you are admitting that said character is bad.

Then D3 is bad.

 

[Xyro77]

Low Tier will always be jumbled, its just the fact of the matter.

I agree to this in a way.

It is my fault for falcon being above samus(after all, im the ONLY one doing anything with samus). I refuse to do what i NEED to do with samus to win and because of that, things like falcon passing up samus happened. This is the case for ALL low tier players. NO ONE does anything with them, has it recorded, and shows it to the public. See ally's video with falcon? See royr's video with falcon? These people are taking thier smarts and applying it to a low tier character and beating GOOD players. This shows what higher level falcons(for example) can do. If you DO NOT like where your LT character is put then you need to record yourself BEATING or going tip for tap vs VERY good players and let the world see. Ally/Royr did it and look where falcon went?


IF you are as serious about LT as i am, SEND me your vids of LTs beating GREAT players. I can show the SBR and we can develope a more accurate LT next time we release a tier list.

Can someone answer this? I'm still kind of confused :3


And Lucario definitely deserved to move up, he is really good.

The SBR assumed ledge stalling, ICG, no ledge grab limit, and all around "gayness" was legal in most events. If pit ledge stalls CORRECTLY then he does ALOT better.

 

[DMG]

Better than G&W? I dunno. I think Pit's planking really is just kind of "Oh hey, good strategy for a character to use to be good" instead of "Wow what the hell, when do I hit him" lol.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I agree to this in a way.

It is my fault for falcon being above samus(after all, im the ONLY one doing anything with samus). I refuse to do what i NEED to do with samus to win and because of that, things like falcon passing up samus happened. This is the case for ALL low tier players. NO ONE does anything with them, has it recorded, and shows it to the public. See ally's video with falcon? See royr's video with falcon? These people are taking thier smarts and applying it to a low tier character and beating GOOD players. This shows what higher level falcons(for example) can do. If you DO NOT like where your LT character is put then you need to record yourself BEATING or going tip for tap vs VERY good players and let the world see. Ally/Royr did it and look where falcon went?



The SBR assumed ledge stalling ICG and all around "gayness" was legal. It pit ledge stalls CORRECTLY then he does ALOT better.

so then the question i have is why are people so afraid of losing/getting on low tier and doing just that? It is still just a game after all

I wanna take my linky winky to a tournie one day

 

[PieDisliker]

Low Tier now officially loses Pokemon Trainer, Ness and Bowser, as we do not consider E Tier as a Borderline Low. However, Ness & Bowser were originally voted as Upper Low, but rather than another tier both were bumped into E. Hence, one could consider both Ness and Bowser acceptable characters in Low Tier tournaments.

Doesn't this mean Sonic, Ness, and Bowser are low tier?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The SBR assumed ledge stalling, ICG, no ledge grab limit, and all around "gayness" was legal in most events. If pit ledge stalls CORRECTLY then he does ALOT better.

So basically what you're saying the BBR who makes the ruleset decided to ditch that when making the tier list so they have produced a tier list based off of theory craft and that doesn't include the current rule set and you expect players to accept this tier list or these reasons? Failed tier list and BBR clearly doesn't know what its doing good job I'm done with this after all.

 

[Xyro77]

so then the question i have is why are people so afraid of losing/getting on low tier and doing just that? It is still just a game after all

I do think people are afraid or w/e i just think they dont wanna put time into a LT character when they are already doing amazing with the normal character.

Look at boss/Pierce mario. I have played BOTH and i can tell you mario is underated as hell. Lets say boss is just an "exception to the rule" with mario......that leaves pierce. I can STILL say mario is underrated. Why? NO ONE put thier vids of a low tier beating good players. I KNOW pierce and boss can beat GOOD players with LT but they just dont do it. IF they did, things would change.

Look at FOW and Shaky. Shaky has place top 3 and even SPLIT with a snake for 1st place in florida. FOW has literally BEAT m2k and went more-or-less even with him the last time they played......now look at where ness is? He climbed a littl bit. When you have results or TOP players admitting certain things happening(m2k saying fow beat him a few times) or vids. things can change.


Again, the issue is that no one really give time into LT and thats why that part of the tier list is not SUPER accurate.

 

[<π]

I agree to this in a way.

It is my fault for falcon being above samus(after all, im the ONLY one doing anything with samus). I refuse to do what i NEED to do with samus to win and because of that, things like falcon passing up samus happened. This is the case for ALL low tier players. NO ONE does anything with them, has it recorded, and shows it to the public. See ally's video with falcon? See royr's video with falcon? These people are taking thier smarts and applying it to a low tier character and beating GOOD players. This shows what higher level falcons(for example) can do. If you DO NOT like where your LT character is put then you need to record yourself BEATING or going tip for tap vs VERY good players and let the world see. Ally/Royr did it and look where falcon went?


IF you are as serious about LT as i am, SEND me your vids of LTs beating GREAT players. I can show the SBR and we can develope a more accurate LT next time we release a tier list.

Oh I'm definitely holding you guys to this. Except with sheik.

 

[Xyro77]

Doesn't this mean Sonic, Ness, and Bowser are low tier?

Some TO's will allow them to be in LT events but MOST will not. Sonic/ness/bowser are mid tier and i recommend people start holding MID TIER events to help boost those characters overall strength.


<3, im dead serious. LT is over looked SO much because people simply dont play or use them. SEND me your videos of LT beating GOOD players OFFLINE.

 

[clowsui]

So basically what you're saying the BBR who makes the ruleset decided to ditch that when making the tier list so they have produced a tier list based off of theory craft and that doesn't include the current rule set and you expect players to accept this tier list or these reasons? Failed tier list and BBR clearly doesn't know what its doing good job I'm done with this after all.

what are you talking about...midwest still runs events without LGL -__-

 

[YesNoMaybeSo]

because I care

---
Metaknight: No ones ever going to take my spot, Ill just hang down here for a while, maybe an entire match.
Snake: ALMOST... THERE
Diddy: what goes up must come down...
IC's: theres only room for 2 chaingrabbers in this tier
Falco: Get out of my tier Marth!
Marth: IM NOT JOINING THEM DOWN THERE!

DDD: *splat*
Pikachu: Enjoy high tier while you can...
Lucario: THIS is my true power!
Olimar: lol kirby
G&W: ITS ALL YOUR FAULT MARTH

Pit: If I do this for 8 minutes for 6 months ill get another +4 boost right?
TL: I can relax all day, im not going anywhere
ZSS: leapfrog!
ROB: What did I ever do to deserve this humiliation...
Kirby: Is it over?

Wolf: Can't let you be mid tier Star Fox!
Fox: Is there ANYTHING you will let me do?
Peach/DK/Luigi: Help! we appear to be stuck here

Sheik: Someone help me up... anyone?
Sonic: Taking a break for the first time in his life, wondering what he did wrong
Ness: Bye Lucas... *FINALLY WHERE I BELONG!*
Bowser: I can sit here all day...
Squirtle: Grab release this!

Ike: One day... one day I'll recover
Jigglypuff/Yoshi: *doesnt know whats going on, but is happy to still be a playable character*
Mario: Which way is up again?
Lucas: NESS DONT LEAVE ME ALL ALONE!
Samus: The guardian of bottom tier lets her guard down for a fraction of a second...
Falcon: FALCON SNEAK!

Ganon: YOU MUST DIE!
Zelda: Lot of good wisdom did...
Link: Sigh...
---

Still need something for Wario to be thinking

Lol I lol'd srsly. Ganon bringing Zelda down with him?

 

[zeldspazz]

^ That was the best part of the picture xD


@Xyro: I dont really think that would solve the whole LT thing, with videos and such. DarkMusician has beasted Snakes with Zelda and put that on camera, and Veggie + Riot have videos against people like Lain and look where Zelda is.

 

[phi1ny3]

And also about marth, he also has some **** MUs.

Just look at poor PT, Ness, and Lucas. Pretty much makes lol material out of them.

 

[Ripple]

So basically what you're saying the BBR who makes the ruleset decided to ditch that when making the tier list so they have produced a tier list based off of theory craft and that doesn't include the current rule set and you expect players to accept this tier list or these reasons? Failed tier list and BBR clearly doesn't know what its doing good job I'm done with this after all.

the official SBR rule set does not say anything about stalling, infinites, or planking. the tier list was based off the current rules! youre dumb. know the rules

 

[Noraa]

Dont cry g&w lol...=[

 

[Chis]

Doesn't this mean Sonic, Ness, and Bowser are low tier?

Only Bowser and Ness are mentioned, not Sonic.