The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[YagamiLight]

And I'm still not buying it Light. :/ We'll see what the BBR thinks soon enough though, they should put up that topic today on the Ike boards.

Aw c'mon Niddo, work with me. That topic is going to be 70% "Ike is mid tier" and 30% "Ike sucks. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW."

YOU JUST DON'T KNOW is a completely valid argument, by the way.

BTW light, in the Character Ranking thread, Ike's results are behind PT, Sonic, Sheik, and Wolf. Do work son.

Never said they weren't ahead of Ike in that list (although Sheik and PT weren't until just recently, IIRC).

This topic, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284937, on the other hand shows that Ike is currently doing 4th best in places where infinites are allowed and is the best everywhere else. It's more accurate than Ankoku's list since it includes all rankings, not just the top 8 (which is flawed for nationals).

Using that list, Ike is clearly doing waaaay better than everyone else. PT, who is the closest, is still 3000 points behind.

 

[Teh Future]

DMG there are plenty of tournaments that have no LGL

 

[Nidtendofreak]

YOU JUST DON'T KNOW is a completely valid argument, by the way.

...

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS BEFORE? Would have made my life SO much easier.

As for that Mid/Low tier topic: I won't be using it as a reference until it has more data. It's too new right now. Give it another month or so.

 

[Flayl]

YagamiLight, very few tournaments have been submitted to that thread, I wouldn't use it as an argument for now.

edit: Ninja'd

 

[Teh Future]

ike is high tire when will people realise this

 

[The Truth!]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329

Walk Speed
2st
Dash Foxtrot Speed
1st
Running Speed
3rd
Acceleration Due to Gravity
1st
Normal Fall Terminal Velocity
3rd
Fast Falling Terminal Velocity
4th
Base Aerial Mobility
10th
Maximum Air Speed
29th

Who is this impressively mobile character?

Spoiler

...Fox...

From this info I dont think its a stretch to say he is the most mobile character, and with the same stats the only characters that come close are MK, Pikachu, and sort of Marth and Wario and even all of them are pretty far off. I understand that this raw comparison doesnt tell everything about a characters mobility relative to the rest of the cast, but when you are heads and heels above everyone else just by this kind of cursory glance its still telling you something.

To top it off he has side b which helps to negate his poor maximum air speed and down b is also pretty handy for slowing down the detriments from a fast falling speed.

In addition most of his pitfalls tend to mirror that of falcos, and falco is considered among the best in the game. IMO hes the most underrated character atm.

Spoiler

Also Fox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wolf

Anyways, discuss.

 

[YagamiLight]

YagamiLight, very few tournaments have been submitted to that thread, I wouldn't use it as an argument for now.

edit: Ninja'd

Ah got it, my bad.

Will be using it as an argument in a few months, then.

 

[z00ted]

Bowser should plummet.

That is all.

 

[Steeler]

ike > PT by alot

this **** right hurr

 

[Teh Future]

fox and wolf both has retardedly fast air speed

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ah, the fox debate. Let me just say that any arguement over comparing fox, wolf and falco together should stop. They are completely different characters despite sharing some similarities.

Fox's inherit stats are what makes him be great just as quickly as it cripples him. That fast falling speed which makes him somewhat (very little) heavier than he really is actually allows him to be caught in the worst of attack chains.

I agree that fox shows good promise to be higher than he is currently, but to keep things short, I do not see him making any drasitic rise in the tier list.

 

[Orion*]

if theres combo in brawl, or some gay *** gimmick it probably works on wolf. if it wasnt for this ma dude would be like A tier -.-

hes the best worst character. he has all of the qualities of a top tier minus the recovery

safe pressure approach game
safe airs on block
natural combos
"combo breaker" - shine
kill moves-> usmash and fsmash are sdiable, so if he was popular you would see this. but fair, bair and his frame 5 dsmash are all great kill tools

ridiculously fast air speed
amazing bait game
great oos options usmash, shine, ect
good projectile that hits crouching characters, can be breversaled for a spacing tool
his projectile has an active hitbox at the start
good jab
decent throws


its so depressing.

 

[Delta-cod]

Wolf is gay and I hate him and I hope he never goes up on the tier list.

 

[Chuee]

Delta's mad cuz he's a Yoshi :3

 

[Poltergust]

Wolf is gay and I hate him and I hope he never goes up on the tier list.

Heck, I hope that he and Yoshi switch places.

In fact, let's just ban Wolf. No one likes him anyways.

 

[Orion*]

yoshis name search wolf mad hard LOL

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wolf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fox

Wolf's shine is disgusting. I hate it.

 

[Poltergust]

I don't even know how to namesearch. I just follow this thread. >_>

 

[bigman40]

Delta namesearching wolf all dai.

 

[Kitamerby]

Walk Speed
1st
Dash Foxtrot Speed
1st
Running Speed
3rd
Acceleration Due to Gravity
1st
Normal Fall Terminal Velocity
3rd
Fast Falling Terminal Velocity
3rd
Base Aerial Mobility
10th
Maximum Air Speed
29th
Anyways, discuss.

What.

Walk speed: 2nd

Fast Fall Terminal Velocity: 4th

Also base air speed is tied with 10-18th place so that's a bit skewed.

Maximum air speed: 24-28th

All this means is that Fox is very fast on the ground, and the only thing he's good at in the air is...


...getting back to the ground. :x

quick source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329

Take this information how you will.

 

[Delta-cod]

yoshis name search wolf mad hard LOL

Nah, just me.

Delta namesearching wolf all dai.

Always. I just ignore anything that puts me in the Wolf boards.

 

[theunabletable]

What.

Walk speed: 2nd

I thought his walk acceleration was faster than Marth's, and that Marth just had a faster top speed?

 

[Chuee]

I guess Yoshi's hate wolfs now ;_;
Delta you'd better hate me now cuz I picked up wolf :3

 

[Purple]

Does any of this **** matter entirely matter? :' (

 

[Delta-cod]

I guess Yoshi's hate wolfs now ;_;
Delta you'd better hate me now cuz I picked up wolf :3

RAEG.

It's k, only two wolves have ever beat me.

 

[Kofu]

Just out of curiosity, why is the Wolf MU so hard for Yoshi?

 

[Delta-cod]

In the almighty words of Yes!

Bair
Laser
Shine

 

[Chuee]

RAEG.

It's k, only two wolves have ever beat me.

Well, you'd better get ready to add another, cuz Im coming for you.

 

[BSP]

So, do we have any thoughts on Wolf's position? Up, down, or staying?

 

[Chuee]

up.
I think.
He's fun and not too bad.

 

[BSP]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Orion. Wolf actually has a decent moveset and a pretty good aerial game, but he just gets gayed by every gay thing in the game.

And his recovery is hit or miss, but he does have a bit of leeway with his side B.

 

[The Truth!]

Actually what it means is fox has absolutely no competition (in mobility) on the ground, no competition in terms of vertical air movement (I have no idea why you wouldnt include this in aerial mobility), and is actually fairly average in terms of horizontal air movement.

I also dont see the importance of a tie, its irrelevant. However what does matter is that wolfs aerial mobility is overrated. While he does top off at a fairly fast max speed, wolf is below average in getting to that speed and in shifting momentum into another direction.

Anyways, this wasnt really meant to be a wolf vs fox debate. Mostly pointing out that fox has among the best and arguably the best in overall mobility in the game, and is very underrated.

Spoiler

Meanwhile wolf is arguably low tier.

 

[Blissard]

probably to an extent, the other 2 space animals now live under falco's shadow. neither of them are bad, but i really don't see too many pro wolf/fox players. they're both terrific in stringing attacks together with outstanding speed, and place high in tier lists of other countries. however, their matchups against most high-tiers usually leave them outmaneuvered. in addition, neither can laser nor chain grab as falco can. they both really deserve higher positions though.

speaking of positions, why did zelda plummet so horribly? most poeple base their beliefs around the tier lists, and call her bad simply because the tiers say so. but she suffered near a 15 position drop through the course of brawl, and shes not THAT horrible.

 

[uhmuzing]

I read a few pages ago that you can't gimp Yoshi's mid-air jump - I think you CAN footstool it, as rare as that is. Just thought I'd point it out.

S - Meta Knight
A - Diddy, Falco, Snake, Wario, Marth, ICs
B - Olimar, Dedede, Pikachu, Lucario, GW, ZSS
C - Toon Link, Kirby, Peach, Pit, ROB, Fox
D - Luigi, Donkey Kong, Sheik, Sonic, Wolf, PT
E - Ike, Ness, Yoshi
F - Bowser, Mario, Lucas, CF, Jigglypuff, Samus
G - Link, Zelda, Ganondorf


I'll probably go back and rethink this soon. I'm skeptical about B, C, and D tiers in particular.

 

[Spelt]

I read a few pages ago that you can't gimp Yoshi's mid-air jump

yeah you can. it has super armor but not through the whole thing.

DJ into AD is trickier though

 

[Ripple]

yeah you can. it has super armor but not through the whole thing.

DJ into AD is trickier though

it doesn't have super armor if you want to get technical

 

[bigman40]

I read a few pages ago that you can't gimp Yoshi's mid-air jump - I think you CAN footstool it, as rare as that is. Just thought I'd point it out..

Yes, everyone CAN footstool it. But we have to make the mistake to let it happen.

 

[Poltergust]

yeah you can. it has super armor but not through the whole thing.

DJ into AD is trickier though

Actually, his heavy-armor lasts for the whole double-jump.

 

[Spelt]

Oh.

The more you know~

 

[ShadowLink84]

Actually what it means is fox has absolutely no competition (in mobility) on the ground,

??
Sonic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUt7qjfh6Y&feature=related

no competition in terms of vertical air movement (I have no idea why you wouldnt include this in aerial mobility), and is actually fairly average in terms of horizontal air movement.

Wario is superior in terms of aerial mobility.
Vertical air movement is great but, this is also why Fox has issues being above people.
Shine stalling can only do so much.

I also dont see the importance of a tie, its irrelevant. However what does matter is that wolfs aerial mobility is overrated. While he does top off at a fairly fast max speed, wolf is below average in getting to that speed and in shifting momentum into another direction.

And Fox flies through the air with the greatest of ease?

Anyways, this wasnt really meant to be a wolf vs fox debate. Mostly pointing out that fox has among the best and arguably the best in overall mobility in the game, and is very underrated.

Uh, no.
You're grossly overrating Fox's mobility considering there are characters who beat him out in those aspects like wario and Sonic.

this isn't to say he doesn't have good mobility, but you are certainly exaggerating.
Let alone listing his pros mean nothing.
What about his cons?

And no, wolf isn't at all arguably low tier. You are surely trolling if you suggest such a thing