The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[DMG]

I think we need to go over the Wario matchup again with Yoshi. I play Wario very gay now and it changes things. Enough to where Wario could have the advantage.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we need to go over the Wario matchup again with Yoshi. I play Wario very gay now and it changes things. Enough to where Wario could have the advantage.

I agree.

Also, yoshis jab is definately something to write home about. Its probably one of the top 5 jabs in the game, and it leads to stuff.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Also, yoshis jab is definately something to write home about. Its probably one of the top 5 jabs in the game, and it leads to stuff.

Socks is right. You have to be blind not to see that.

 

[DMG]

I agree.

Also, yoshis jab is definately something to write home about. Its probably one of the top 5 jabs in the game, and it leads to stuff.

Dude seriously Yoshi's Jab is so god **** annoying lol. That is easily a fantastic jab.

As for Yoshi vs Zelda, I would say it is probably very slight like 55:45 Zelda or 50:50.

 

[Kataefi]

Yoshi's jab is good ^^

What are yoshi's approaches?

 

[Deleted member]

bair i guess, and dair and nair to a lesser extent. Lots of variations of bair approach tho. Rising bair, full hop bair, sh bair.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Iunno if it's common for him, but his bair is one of the better moves for breaching zelda. Most of his other attacks get outprioritized too easily.

 

[Kataefi]

All his aerial approaches are outprioritised by USmash if she's on point, which she should be (and I'm never xD )

How would he approach from the front?

He needs to change styles in this matchup. I think where the zeldas and some yoshis are coming from is that the matchup sways in her edge because of her priority, and yoshi has to work harder with baits to get through and earn the kill.

EDIT:: DMG!! I won't forget what this stands for this time dr mario guy ^^

 

[Mmac]

Eh, I been away. I need to catch up now...

 

[Shiri]

People should start experimenting with DR jabs and DR forward tilt as approach variations.

Yoshi's jab is quite amazing, one of the best without question.

I was going to say something else, but I forgot.

Man, I'm hungry. ._.

 

[Ryusuta]

Eh, I been away. I need to catch up now...

I hope you don't plan on ignoring my input on the Jigglypuff match.

 

[Metatitan]

I hope you don't plan on ignoring my input on the Jigglypuff match.

I hope you don't ignore scatz's imput on the jigglypuff matchup (he thinks its 60:40 go to the jiggs boards to see why if u care)... 60:40 yoshi advantage that is ;o

 

[Snowstalker]

I'm thinking that it's 65:35 Yoshi (for the Jiggs matchup), and 40:60 for Zelda.

Also, we need to discuss Donkey Kong.

 

[Kataefi]

I believe at the very worst for yoshi it would be 60:40 Zelda if she plays utlra defensively, but certainly more even if you force her to go aggressive as you can easily land more grabs and combo her this way. I believe against her he generally lacks safe approaches. He has good approaches in general but Zelda's priority isn't normal - her magical attacks don't clank and beat out all of his attacks (similar to MK) =O

General advice against her would be to bait attacks, try to find openings against her priority, launch her in the air and keep her there. If she uses din's at the wrong range, you can charge right in and begin your offence ;D Best to stay grounded also because she's the most anti-aerialist character in the game with usmash, utilt and uair all being able to kill at ridiculous percents.

Be careful of dtilt, she can combo and set up easily from that. Just play smart and outsmart her and you'll have the match in the bag in no time ^^

 

[RoyalBlood]

Someone is understimating Zelda or I don't know Yoshi

Who has the superior range? AND that is exploitable of course, it won't affect too much if it's slow

Being in the air is dangerous for Yoshi and Zelda but who gets it worse?

Zelda can outcamp Yoshi, I think that's clear now

How often will Yoshi pivot grab? It'll start getting obvious, and if not then it will be used sparingly

Who has the better ground game?

I don't this is 50:50 nor 55:45, let's get in depth, if you wanna move on quickly it means you don't want to push it farther?

 

[Ryusuta]

I hope you don't ignore scatz's imput on the jigglypuff matchup (he thinks its 60:40 go to the jiggs boards to see why if u care)... 60:40 yoshi advantage that is ;o

For the 134,294,876th time, I've been paying attention to EVERYTHING being said about the match-up. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD OF ANYTHING I'D BEEN SAYING HAS BEEN REFUTED OR EVEN REASONABLY ARGUED AGAINST THERE. They spent significantly more time bullying and making irrelevant attacks than saying anything match-up related.

And although I could be mistaken, I don't recall Scatz or Mmac saying anything about the match-up numbers.

Bottom line: if you think the match is 6:4 (or less) SAY why you think so. I went into EXTREME detail on each and every potential situation that could be encountered in this match-up, meticulously explaining potential outcomes of those scenarios as well as the potential ramifications of each potential outcome result in the long-term. The way that place talks, you'd think I was saying "OMG UPSMASH BEETZ ALL LOLOLOLO!!!!1"

You think she can do something to make the match more even? For the 134,294,877th time, I am all ears.

 

[RT]

I hate furbs

and i hate fighting yoshi

 

[Gindler]

Someone is understimating Zelda or I don't know Yoshi

Who has the superior range? AND that is exploitable of course, it won't affect too much if it's slow

Being in the air is dangerous for Yoshi and Zelda but who gets it worse?

Zelda can outcamp Yoshi, I think that's clear now

How often will Yoshi pivot grab? It'll start getting obvious, and if not then it will be used sparingly

Who has the better ground game?

I don't this is 50:50 nor 55:45, let's get in depth, if you wanna move on quickly it means you don't want to push it farther?

True her Fsmash and Usmash are annoying when I try to approach.
Luckily Egg Toss > Din's Fire, so I chuck ALOT of eggs not sure if zelda can actually outcamp yoshi just because of cool down time issues...of course there always is that reflector of hers...

But Hmmm...
Air Game: Yoshi > Zelda
Ground Game: Zelda > Yoshi (closer though)

I don't know what to say...

 

[MrEh]

I don't know what to say...

The only thing that pops in my head is that Zelda kills freakishly low percents.


Oh, and this.

I'll say it again. These two players know the matchup well, since they play each other all the time. It's hard enough to find a video of a competent Yoshi against a competent Zelda, and this is a prime example of what would happen in a match between the two.

Very well played by DarkMusician and FingerP@ss.

 

[Kataefi]

Good stuff MrEh! Now we humbly summon you back to the Zelda boards for the bowser discussion! ^^

The thing is, Zelda never likes to go into the air ever. She wants to stay as grounded as possible because her priority is extreme there. It's more like yoshi will find himself in a situation like this:

Yoshi > Zelda if both in the air
Yoshi < Zelda if on ground
Yoshi < Zelda if yoshi is in the air and zelda is grounded.

I understand the last one can also apply vice versa, but he's a lot more aerial than her in general and she always likes to stay grounded, and he will be approaching. She won't go toe-to-toe with someone in the air unless it's a guaranteed sweetspot or a solid attempt at the very least!

 

[Snowstalker]

I think that we should discuss some of the more controversial matches after Zelda. Maybe:

11: Donkey Kong
12: Wario
13: Meta Knight
14: Falco
15: Peach

 

[Tidycats29]

This zelda discussion is still going?

i think we agreed it was 6:4 zelda

but anyway we know yoshi owns her in the air
and she does much better on the ground

honestly as i said before a smart yoshi wont approach with bair or nair here

he will use eggs or grab to approach
which i believe is "safer" than a nair and bair
just cause of zeldas up smash

again if any zelda doesnt know the match up well
you can pm me and we can check online

i for one have fought zelda so many times down here
so i know her pretty well


and btw i think we should discuss meta(this 6:4 change on their match up thread should be discussed here too) or falco next

 

[Kataefi]

Thanks tidycats. We'll update our chart as 6:4.

 

[fox219]

smashwiki says yoshi has mediocre matchups. YOSHI SHOULD DEFINitly RISE IN THE NEW TIER LIST

 

[Swordplay]

I know I'm buttin in but everything I said about the Link matchup is completely untrue and was based from online experience. I went to a tourney the other day and had the opportunity to play a few Yoshi mains and the match ups were COMPLETELY different offline.

So whatever summery I gave for Link earlier is completely trash. Like 90% of that stuff doesn't apply to offline. (I'll write another summery for you guys soon)

So what every I said before I request you take down. It is inaccurate and only based for online. Use this summery instead.

First off I discovered offline while playing against a yoshi at the tourney that Link's Dair is not a threat to yoshi's recovery. It only hits him maybe once out of every 15 times which isn't that much of a threat. To top it off. Link won't do this once he realizes it won't work.

I discovered eggs don't stop Links spam. Offline, it is much easier to power shield eggs and avoid them in other ways. However the same goes true for Links projectiles. Boomerangs and arrows can be power shielded and bombs caught. Only problem is Yoshi's shield game is not good so Link has a small advantage here but it still pretty even.

Yoshi still has to approach. Link may or may not be able to out spam Yoshi (platforms help Links spam SO MUCH) depending on level But Link can STILL out camp Yoshi via spacing. Disjointed zairs and sword attacks force yoshi to use his spacing AT's to approach Link.

Once inside yoshi has a slight advantage. His moves are in general faster and Link will do everything he can to regain spacing. This will be a struggle for him though. Yoshi is quick through the air. Yoshi's must utilize that airspeed to keep the pressure on Link and continue to thwart his spacing.

Link cracks under pressure. He is weak from behind so keep that in mind when going on the offensive. You'll defiantly want to mix up your game between offense and defense. Because you'll most likely be the approaches, you should defiantly give yourself the option of when and where to approach. Once you see link it a bad position like hes near the edge that is a great opportunity. Link's tend to do everything they can to regain center control because of their bad recovery. This includes their willingness to get slightly punished. Look for opportunities and exploit them.

On a last note. Yoshi does have a CG on Link but it isn't all that great. Good links have some idea about the match up and will keep a bomb in hand for a good amount of the match up. Best thing to do is just to chew him and spit him out. From there, approach and break his spacing.

 

[Yikarur]

In my opinion when the link are knowing the match up Yoshi get problems so I think 50:50 isn't right.

Zelda:
I think furthermore Yoshi: Zelda is 35:65 because 40:60 is out of place.

We have to discuss a lot of match ups.

Wolf 40:60? Never notice that Yoshi is bad against Wolf
Ness 45:55? I think 40:60 Definitly Ness > Yoshi

 

[Chaco]

Seriously we need to change the title.

 

[illinialex24]

Seriously we need to change the title.

What, the fact that this is 3 months old doesn't make it new. To Orion's trolling

 

[Metatitan]

For the 134,294,876th time, I've been paying attention to EVERYTHING being said about the match-up. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD OF ANYTHING I'D BEEN SAYING HAS BEEN REFUTED OR EVEN REASONABLY ARGUED AGAINST THERE. They spent significantly more time bullying and making irrelevant attacks than saying anything match-up related.

And although I could be mistaken, I don't recall Scatz or Mmac saying anything about the match-up numbers.

Bottom line: if you think the match is 6:4 (or less) SAY why you think so. I went into EXTREME detail on each and every potential situation that could be encountered in this match-up, meticulously explaining potential outcomes of those scenarios as well as the potential ramifications of each potential outcome result in the long-term. The way that place talks, you'd think I was saying "OMG UPSMASH BEETZ ALL LOLOLOLO!!!!1"

You think she can do something to make the match more even? For the 134,294,877th time, I am all ears.

look at the jiggs matchup boards he posted there. turns the jiggs were right about rising pound although i will admit its not a gamebreaking move in this matchup. and no i dont think the matchup is even id say 60:40 yoshi but 70:30 yoshi like u said is too extreme her moves tend to have more priority and hes not that tough to kill considering any good jiggs would never stale out her fair. i say 60:40 yoshi simply on the fact that he just has an easier time killing jiggs than her... this does not mean its a pain-in-the-*** matchup like ur assuming it is

 

[illinialex24]

look at the jiggs matchup boards he posted there. turns the jiggs were right about rising pound although i will admit its not a gamebreaking move in this matchup. and no i dont think the matchup is even id say 60:40 yoshi but 70:30 yoshi like u said is too extreme her moves tend to have more priority and hes not that tough to kill considering any good jiggs would never stale out her fair. i say 60:40 yoshi simply on the fact that he just has an easier time killing jiggs than her... this does not mean its a pain-in-the-*** matchup like ur assuming it is

Yeah, they both rack up damage pretty well but Jigglypuff can't gimp Yoshi well and rollout sucks period so she requires fair or dash attack or rest to kill.

But Yoshi's grab release does almost nothing. 110 damage or whatever isn't an early KO for the puff.

 

[Metatitan]

fair works really good at killing yoshies. Ive killed/been killed with it so many times *cries inside from the scar of fair*

 

[illinialex24]

fair works really good at killing yoshies. Ive killed/been killed with it so many times *cries inside from the scar of fair*

Its fair love, don't compromise
the feelings for this only move
holding up Jigglypuff into the sky
Its fair love, between two puffs

 

[Metatitan]

wouldn't it be fair love between jigglypuff's feet and yoshi's face?

 

[illinialex24]

wouldn't it be fair love between jigglypuff's feet and yoshi's face?

Yeah but that doesn't fit.....

 

[Metatitan]

it can if we want it to

 

[Snowstalker]

Has anyone looked at 0rion's post? Mathematically, Yoshi has a 65:35, maybe even 70:30 advantage.

 

[illinialex24]

Has anyone looked at 0rion's post? Mathematically, Yoshi has a 65:35, maybe even 70:30 advantage.

Mathematically, Orion is an idiot. Thats why no one looks at Orion's post.

 

[Ryusuta]

Orion's trolling

Orion is an idiot.

No matter how many times I see you post, the irony never ceases to amaze me.

look at the jiggs matchup boards he posted there. turns the jiggs were right about rising pound

Mmac actually had a huge c/p regarding this move earlier on in this thread. I didn't talk about it because I didn't think the issue required further discussion.

The problem is that Jigglypuff winning out in situations like this is that it has no real long-term impact on the match. It won't allow her to space any better and it won't set up anything noteworthy.

her moves tend to have more priority and hes not that tough to kill considering any good jiggs would never stale out her fair.

Which in turn limits her options in approaching. You see where I'm going with this?

i say 60:40 yoshi simply on the fact that he just has an easier time killing jiggs than her... this does not mean its a pain-in-the-*** matchup like ur assuming it is

I'm not assuming anything. Adding in yet another little hint of irony, you're assuming that what I'm saying is assumption.

Rising Pound has a lot of limitations, and forward air either gets diminished or doesn't help her approach. Meanwhile, she's susceptible to his pivot, his up smash, his ETS, and most of his killing moves, all of which lead to setups and have long-term ramifications during the match.

 

[Snowstalker]

Next you're going to say that Jigglypuff has great matchups, and isn't the 3rd or 2nd worst friggin character in the game.

Anyway, can we discuss Meta Knight or something?

 

[Deleted member]

Next you're going to say that Jigglypuff has great matchups, and isn't the 3rd or 2nd worst friggin character in the game.

Anyway, can we discuss Meta Knight or something?

Jiggs is much better than 3rd or 2nd worst, and imo better than yoshi.

MK next pweese.

Lets settle for 65:35 on jiggs