The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[Tidycats29]

I've faced some very awesome jigg players over here
i have my share of experience

well she has no chance in hell in beating you on ground
but they mostly are flloating anyway
her fair and pound are annoying as hell and bair

that pretty much it what she has against yoshi
your upsmash kills her air attacks pretty easily
and pivot grabbing works well

jiggs might be 1 of the best to effectively edgeguard you though
i always found it hard to get back
fair is annoying and she can move easily on air as we already know
if you want to be gay
you can camp pretty easily against her

but pretty much the match up is lop sided
i'de say 6:4 yoshi
possibly 6.5:3.5


Now as for zelda i find the match up in zeldas favor

trying to stay on distance is hard
dins fire has haxed range
plus she can outcamp you anyway
but dont lose hope your eggs work well in the match up
just dont really try to camp
use them here and there
use them intelligently

approaching via bairs and nairs is hard as well
her Upsmash is a killer for that
you can use it as bait though
cause they sometimes rely too much on upsmash
a fake bair might get her to upsmash to nothing
you can take advantage on the empty attack

what work in this match up is grabbing
grab her and keep her on air
once you grab her and throw her egg spam quickly
go for Uairs and bairs when she is in air

you pretty much have a decent advantage on her on air
everytime she is in air egg spam

you edgehog here recovery if you want
and you can recover yourself pretty easily

On ground she has advantage
on air you have advantage

this match is 55:45 zelda maybe 6:4

 

[Metatitan]

Jiggs doesn't pretty much fight you with her arials, she DOES fight you with her arials and her bair ourprioritizes our bair (talking from yoshi's side, kinda confusing since i play as both and jiggs is my secondary main) but yoshi overall has advantage solely because of his usmash (at least thats what ive noticed from playing jiggs and being jiggs against yoshies). Considering his usmash isnt entirely broken like G&W's turtle I don't see a reason for the matchup to exceed 6:4 yoshi.

 

[Ryusuta]

Up smash destroys Jigglypuff, dude. It sets her up like crazy when it hits, and it hits a LOT against her.

"But wait, what if Jigglypuff comes in too shallow and low for the up smash?" She gets pivot grabbed.

Pound is extremely dicey as well.

And let's not forget the ETS.

And Jigglypuff's only viable kill move against him is her forward air, which she has to keep fresh. Meanwhile, there are scenarios for Yoshi landing any of his kill moves against her.

Yoshi can always return against her in the air, especially factoring in his VAST superiority in vertical mobility. Yoshi gets knocked out, immediately goes high, Jigglypuff does jack about it. She can't chase him, because although her horizontal movement speed in the air is great (less than Yoshi's, though), her vertical mobility is garbage. At best, she can wait for him to come down and try to bait a dodge. Hardly a lethal scenario, unless Yoshi is well over 150% anyway.

Jigglypuff does even WORSE on neutral stages such as Battlefield. Whereas Yoshi has to worry about... erm... up air when he's stuck on a platform above Jigglypuff, Jigglypuff is in a NIGHTMARE situation on a platform against Yoshi (susceptible to up air, up smash, ETS, up tilt... need I go on?). All it takes is one good pivot grab to forward throw against her, and Yoshi gets under the middle platform. Good luck.

She does have a couple of nice CP stages (Japes being one that was discussed fairly well before), but nothing that will significantly turn the tides in her favor. She's in pretty bad shape all around on neutrals.

So... was there anything else that needs covering? I could also bullet-point this for the summary if you'd like.

 

[Metatitan]

Let's not forget you cant pivot grab and usmash at the same time. And while usmash may "destroy" her if u tend to overuse it (which so many yoshies i play do) then it doesn't become a reliable killing move. Battlefield probably her worst stage so don't even try bringing that one up almost all chars have crappy stages. Anyways everything you've said SOUNDS nice on paper... now go do it

 

[Ryusuta]

I've done it many times, silly. I don't comment on matches unless I know them well enough to have a say on them.

And you're right. Yoshi can't always avoid getting tagged by Jigglypuff. Sometimes he'll just read her incorrectly. That's just the nature of the beast. Hell, even Ganondorf can pull off a successful tech chase against Snake every now and then. But the results of her getting hit with a smash/grab are a lot more drastic than Yoshi getting tagged with a back air (as I outlined in an earlier summation). And meanwhile, she's outclassed in every other viable situation (approaching, edge guarding, killing, etc.) and most neutral stages, making it heavily disadvantageous for her to go up against him.

Like I said, you do raise some good points. I'm not saying that Yoshi is guaranteed to win no matter what. I'm saying that the odds are skewed pretty strongly in his favor, when you take a look at the various possible outcomes of the scenarios likely to occur.

 

[Yikarur]

Zelda is my hardest match up so far.

Any kind of air approach are destroyed by her upsmash.
You can't force an approach because she outcamp us. (Din > Eggs)
And when you approach you get it by this multihit smashes.

but when Zelda is in the air she can do less against Yoshi.
In the Air she seems to be in a bad position until he is back on the ground.

also: As long as Zelda is standing on the ground she has a big advantage against Yoshi.

pls continue the discussion.
Out of my experience I say 35:65 in Zeldas favor. (40:60 are not applicable imo)

 

[Kataefi]

Hiya! I got a thread from the Zelda boards saying you're discussing her!

From my experience against yoshis, I find he lacks safe approaches against her generally very high priority. SH approaches are often hampered by her jab or a hyphen USmash. USmash beats out every aerial approach he can conceive, as it does normally against the majority of the cast. This includes his down b also.

Her Fsmash also has deceptive range and low cooldown. It's very safe on block, and easily spammable, and not so easily spotdodged. Considering yoshi never likes to shield much as he spotdodges, he'll have a tougher time invading Zelda's high defence. If someone stays outside her range, she can defend immediately with jabs. Her jab has no cooldown, so she can laglessly connect to another attack depending on yoshi's actions. If he rushes in I might jab > no cooldown spotdodge > attack, or any other combination that fits the situation, like jab > no cooldown USmash if you SH over the jab to attack.

Yoshi's also unfortunately tall enough to be hit with Bair OoS. You guys must take care when attacking her shield because she can powershield > LK for the kill.

I'll post later when more Zeldas come hopefully, but I see this in the range of 60:40 Zelda's advantage + or -. Yoshi has some pretty crazy tools in general that helps him a lot in brawl, I'm convinced he's much much better than what that crazy tier list says about him.

EDIT:: Have I scared everyone away?

 

[Silent Beast]

I've found dash attack to be a pretty good counter to Din's fire, since they cancel each other out. Zelda starts side-B, run in, dash attack the Din's fire (Zelda will usually release the Din's fire to try to keep you away, and if she doesn't, you can hit her with the dash attack), and assuming you've gotten in close enough, jab, which comes out faster than any of Zelda's attacks.

 

[Brinzy]

Look, not to sound offensive or anything, but Din's is completely unimportant in this fight and in pretty much all of them.

 

[Silent Beast]

True, I was really just more tossing it out there as an option that Yoshi had against Din's fire, rather than meaning it would play a significant role in the match.

 

[Tidycats29]

Look, not to sound offensive or anything, but Din's is completely unimportant in this fight and in pretty much all of them.

if we went ahead and camped against you

wouldnt you use dins fire?
and probably stop our egg spamming camp

 

[Kataefi]

Successor means Zelda should never be using din's in a situation where her opponent can cancel the hitbox and run in to attack her. So you'll never see her use it when yoshi runs in - there are better options for her

 

[Brinzy]

That, and the only time I can really see myself using Din's is 1) when I can't reach you otherwise (you're off-stage) or 2) if you're on the ledge and throwing eggs. Other than that, I don't particularly use it much. Most decent Zeldas don't.

 

[bigman40]

I have no reason to keep this going. Everyone is on the same page (40:60 Zelda's advantage) and frankly, you guys have said what I have said on the matchup, but I'll input some options that we can do that clarifies the matchup.

 

[Kataefi]

Hiya! I was wondering if I could borrow the layout for this matchup chart! Is there a clear version at all?

 

[Snowstalker]

Mmac has given an empty chart like that to the Mario boards, so I'm sure he has one for you.

Also, Zelda's fair and bair are like decent versions of the knee. Any way to beat those?

 

[Kataefi]

Wicked! Thanks!

They're more than decent because we've figured out slightly easier ways to land them and they're almost double as powerful! Be really careful when attacking her because she can Bair out of shield and sweetspot against taller characters such as yoshi =O

Also, sweetspots and her aerial game in general are much easier to land when there are platforms. Take her to a flat stage with no platforms to gimp her aerial game a lot ^^

She also likes to attempt LKs at the edge. She might run off the edge, and come back with a sweetspot in the face =O so beware when fighting her near the edge! I still need to master my sweetspots but I'm getting there =)

 

[Yikarur]

I'm thinking further on that the Match up is 35:65 in Zelda Favor.
She destroys any Air Approach with the Upsmash, She outcamp us and bair out of shield hurts ,___,

Thats my opionion :0

 

[Kataefi]

She's tricky because a lot of her moves linger and are multi-hit, so if she's aggressive she can be just as painful because her moves are so hard to spotdodge. There may be times when she can force you in your shield and capitalise on that with dtilts/jabs/grabs or even a SH lightning kick.

 

[Deoxys]

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza

Please rank these stages by most preferred to least preferred against MK. I know you're on Zelda right now, but this shouldn't take long and is rather important for mains of either character to know. I'm guessing you'd eliminate Delfino, Yoshi's Island, and Battlefield in the stage striking process, but I'm not sure.

 

[Snowstalker]

All I know is that Yoshi has the advantage on FD, Smashville, and Castle Siege. MK wins on Yoshi's Island Brawl, Battlefield, and Delfino.

 

[bigman40]

Final Destination
Smashville
Halberd
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Pokémon Stadium 1
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island

That's my list from most preferred (top) to least preferred (bottom)

 

[Deoxys]

All I know is that Yoshi has the advantage on FD, Smashville, and Castle Siege. MK wins on Yoshi's Island Brawl, Battlefield, and Delfino.

That's what I guessed. I'd think SV would be nearly even, though. I guess the platform is away more often than not.

That's my list from most preferred (top) to least preferred (bottom)

Really? I'm surprised you're not more worried about Delfino. I'd gladly take you there as MK.

 

[bigman40]

Really? I'm surprised you're not more worried about Delfino. I'd gladly take you there as MK.

GA doesn't have many MKs, if not at all. So, I don't know the counterpick stages I need to. I just experiment until I find an answer xD

 

[Deleted member]

All I know is that Yoshi has the advantage on FD, Smashville, and Castle Siege. MK wins on Yoshi's Island Brawl, Battlefield, and Delfino.

No yoshi loses on every stage, sorry.

YI brawl is the best for us imo.

 

[Yikarur]

Yoshi has a disadvantage on Delfino? ;__; That destroys my philosophy ;o; even when you are able to cg him out?

that sucks :0

 

[Deoxys]

No yoshi loses on every stage, sorry.

YI brawl is the best for us imo.

Doesn't the platform get in the way of the CG and your Egg Toss? Also, Yoshi definitely doesn't lose on Castle Siege, and I think he does well on FD in this matchup as well.

Yoshi has a disadvantage on Delfino? ;__; That destroys my philosophy ;o; even when you are able to cg him out?

that sucks :0

Well the umbrellas can get in the way of the CG, and MK is really good on Delfino in general since he can often approach beneath the stage.

I hope I'm not ruining your Zelda discussion.

 

[Tidycats29]

Yoshi does very well on any flat stage against meta

Final destination
Smashville
Castle siege
Yoshi's Island
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Pokemon stadium 1

from top to bottom of best to worse for yoshi

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

Doesn't the platform get in the way of the CG and your Egg Toss? Also, Yoshi definitely doesn't lose on Castle Siege, and I think he does well on FD in this matchup as well.



Well the umbrellas can get in the way of the CG, and MK is really good on Delfino in general since he can often approach beneath the stage.

I hope I'm not ruining your Zelda discussion.

Why does Yoshi beat MK on Castle Siege? (Just wondering, since I don't face many MKs myself)

And don't worry, I think all of us were basically on the same page with Zelda.

 

[Snowstalker]

Because of the second walk-off stage. Yoshi can get easy kills there.

 

[Chaco]

Why does Yoshi beat MK on Castle Siege? (Just wondering, since I don't face many MKs myself)

And don't worry, I think all of us were basically on the same page with Zelda.

He doesn't imho. MK has advantage there. Definitely. Only if it's on the final part do we have advantage due to the flat part.

Also, my list of crazy CPs and stages, from most preffered to least:

Norfair
Delfino
PS1
YI
SV
FD
BF

Norfair is my favorite stage ever. Yoshi's Uairs **** there. Also, MK mini CG release from the top platform onto the inner one is hysterical, follow up with egg lay. Instant sex points.

 

[Deleted member]

The MK can just camp on the walk off areas. its easy.

Yoshi loses 6:4 on all neutrals, maybe worse on Bf where we cant CG, and he still loses on the cps.

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi wins on FD and Smashville, MK wins on the other neutrals.

 

[Deleted member]

Umm no...

Yoshi loses 4:6 on smashville and FD.

/no explaination

 

[Chaco]

Umm no...

Yoshi loses 4:6 on smashville and FD.

/no explaination

Well, it depends on the skill of your MK and who the Yoshi is.

Dojo vs Bwett on SV. 70:30 Yoshi. I'm just kidding, please don't think I'm serious. Lmao!

 

[Kataefi]

Sorry to interrupt =D I'd like to update my matchup chart for Zelda! (And I made one so I didn't need to borrow Mmac's ^^) What are you guys thinking the ratio is? I'm debating around 60:40+-, a lot of you guys are saying around 60:40, 65:35 her advantage... let me know ^^

 

[Tidycats29]

Sorry to interrupt =D I'd like to update my matchup chart for Zelda! (And I made one so I didn't need to borrow Mmac's ^^) What are you guys thinking the ratio is? I'm debating around 60:40+-, a lot of you guys are saying around 60:40, 65:35 her advantage... let me know ^^

put 6:4

i dont think its that lop sided at all

i mean we arent that stupid to air approach everytime and get up smashed and never learn from it


everything else i believe we discussed

 

[Sharky]

He doesn't imho. MK has advantage there. Definitely. Only if it's on the final part do we have advantage due to the flat part.

Also, my list of crazy CPs and stages, from most preffered to least:

Norfair
Delfino
PS1
YI
SV
FD
BF

Norfair is my favorite stage ever. Yoshi's Uairs **** there. Also, MK mini CG release from the top platform onto the inner one is hysterical, follow up with egg lay. Instant sex points.

hehe yay norfair. That's my fave CP every time XD. Except MK maybe. His ledgecamping can cause some troubles there. Yoshi does a pretty good job, as well, but so does MK. I'm kinda split on that one.

 

[DstyCube]

Zelda is not a fun match up. Her disjointed attacks are very frustrating to play against and this matchup relies on your own ability to space yourself without the fear of getting easily punished. Her aerials pretty much out prioritize Yoshi's and id try my best to stay on the ground in this fight. Her dair isn't as strong as her other attacks, so its probably safest to approach her from below if she's in the air.

Her Usmash and Fsmash hit pretty hard, try your best to DI out of these. I think generally you want to DI up out of them if you can.

Playing against DarkMusician, I've heard him mention a few times that small characters (i.e. Squirtle) can give him a hard time since upsmash can't pull them up if they're on the sides of Zelda. I tend to crawl more in this match up to space dtilts not sure if thats really a good or bad thing, but that's what I do.

YI is a good place to pick because of the uneven ground (gives you a little more room to dodge attacks if they're on higher ground than you) and the side of the stage will gimp Zelda's recovery if she's directly below the edge.

Summary: Stay low, use some good DI, and space yourself and you shouldn't have too many problems.

P.S. - Nair out prioritizes Din's Fire. If you don't feel like air dodging for whatever reason.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Yeah, this matchup can be quite difficult. It's pretty much all about spacing.