The New Match-Up Chart v2

[Beat!]

Scrub talking:

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting down with this. The in-depth analysis of every match-up is a great source of learning for me, especially when there's disagreement, since I get to "see both sides of the coin". Even if you never finish the chart, the discussions and analysises you go through are well enough for me.

Thanks for doing this.

 

[Winston]

lol @ thinking mango is the most prominent user of excessive returns.

I think we should do captain falcon instead of ness.

The only people who still feel like talking about matchups here are the people who use obscure characters, it seems.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea. its easy to get ppl to talk about m2 for some reason. like really really easy lol

 

[TheManaLord]

I can agree with Zelda >> M2 on FoD as well. High ceiling and good platforms for kicks.

 

[Dark Hart]

yea plus the side blast zones are fairly short compared to most of the neutrals minus YS which is good for lower % kick kills

 

[Stevo]

I can't tell what matchups are being discussed in this thread right now.

Marth vs G&W?
Mewtwo?

If it means anything, Mario beats g&w with f-smash spam in my experience, and I doubt that matchup has been played much by anyone. G&W dies at like 75% from f-smash and it is easy to hit it. Maybe on a big stage like dreamland it might be closer. I'm sure cape wrecks g&w up-b too, but I have never needed it.

 

[Cactuarz]

G&W can avoid fsmash spam pretty well if he's actually watching out for it. I don't like the matchup much myself, but it's not heavily in mario's favor so meh. Cape can be annoying, but it's usually not used due to sweetspotting/recovering way high/early/etc

 

[Dark Hart]

Can't G&W just duck mario's fsmash???

 

[Stevo]

I doubt it.

Mario is short, but maybe. (im at work, cannot test it)

 

[Cactuarz]

i highly doubt normal fsmash, up angled yes, down angled definately not *you can angle mario's fsmash*

 

[zeldasmash]

Okay seriously, will this be updated soon?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What do you want updated? All the matchups are accurate within margins.

 

[zeldasmash]

Margins? Don't get it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What do you want updated? The chart is complete to the point where nobody really has issues with the numbers.

 

[zeldasmash]

but what about the matchup ratios?

 

[Deleted member]

wtf is the point of switching it to separate stages if all the numbers are the same (for falcon matchups)

edit:

oh

 

[-ACE-]

wtf is the point of switching it to separate stages if all the numbers are the same (for falcon matchups)

Lol .

 

[t3h Icy]

I'm not doing this, you guys are ******** beyond repair.

 

[john!]

define "you guys".

anyone who disagrees with you?

oh lol.

 

[t3h Icy]

Umm, have you read the thread? And I haven't really made an opinion on anything to agree/disagree with...

 

[SuperMatt]

Gaw v marth is not a -3...its more like a -1

GAw's fair is as long as any of marth's attacks and therefore it's not hard to get in on marth's spacing

also i think GaW v falco should be a -3

probably one of the hardest matchups for Gaw IMO if the falco knows how to play it

 

[Divinokage]

Doc vs Ganon on FoD I believe is Ganon advantage since doc's grab game is hampered by the stage and also it's easy to kill Doc for me.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Marth vs Shiek on FD is MUCH harder than Marth vs Shiek on YS or FoD.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i disagree. i like it on FD

 

[_wzrd]

i like it on fd too. or dreamland or yoshis or FoD or battlefield

basically all the neutrals feel fine in that m/u

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Everyone has their preference, but the matchup is harder for Marth on FD than it is on most other stages. I remember first seeing this way back in the day when Omar aka Blood of the Fallen beat Ken on FD. There are recent examples as well, such as M2K getting 3 stocked by OverTriforce on FD.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I don't think recent m2k matches are confidently indicative of anything except a total lack of confidence

but yes you are right, FD is probably the worst or second worst neutral for marth in that matchup

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like to move it move it

 

[FoxLisk]

FD is generally bad for marth. it gives him great combos if he can land the right starters, but it gives sheik longer combos off of almost all her starters, so it pans out in her favour. sheik players are probably generally less confident on FD because they lose their platform camping against most chars, but i dont really see sheiks platform camping marth anyway, probably because of his obscene coverage of platforms.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

FD is considerably good for marth's combos as well since there are no platforms for sheik to land on once launched in the air. Marth also has a slightly easier time trapping sheik and spacing her out since there are no platforms to interfere. This also works in reverse, but i feel it helps marth out slightly more than sheik overall.

 

[KAOSTAR]

im with sveet. also sheik doesn't have the platforms to enhance her needle game.

in a neutral setup marth is just as fast, has ax bigger grab and more attack range. considering sheik has no choice but to approach "apply directly to the forehead" marth has an easier time defending his space.

 

[bubbaking]

Is this the newest Melee match up chart? If not, where is it?

 

[Deleted member]

falcon vs falco 20-80

 

[JPOBS]

I think it's 90-10 actually

 

[Archangel]

nice...fun when these get bumped.

 

[bubbaking]

I'm not bumping this for the purpose of just bumping. I actually would like to know where the most recent match up chart is. For the longest time, I though that this was the latest MU chart. Xp