The Metal Discussion (Come in here for the chugga chuzz of the br00tal metal)

[PD4FR]

er, Muse is one of the biggest modern rock bands around dude.

I used to be completely obsessed with them, before Black Holes and Revelations came out. That album was a little disappointing. The Resistance is one of the crappiest things I've ever heard. So I guess I've grown out of them or something

You didn't grow out of them, you just don't like their new stuff because they changed.

Hm, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I meant to say that their old stuff deserves more credit, and their unpopular songs deserve more, too. I know their newer albums are popular, lol.

 

[Vermy]

Listen to Septic Flesh and Rotting Christ.


That is all.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I have BH&R.

I only have it cuz I played GH3 and heard Knights of Cydonia. And I loved it. That and Assassin.

Game advertising da bess.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

The Resistance is one of the crappiest things I've ever heard.

omg SO TRUE. There are maybe a couple songs on the album I like, but they seem to be way too focused on political commentary that's too prosaic for me.

So I guess I've grown out of them or something

Well, they have definitely changed their style a bit. <3 Absolution


but back to the metal

I don't visit this thread much so idk if they've been covered, but I heard a band called 'The Sword' today and really liked them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7yCchUbbKM
Anyone else?

 

[Wretched]

Bass: Arif Mirabdolbaghi(Protest The Hero)

People know about Protest?

 

[Luigitoilet]

People know about Protest?

You're kidding right? Protest the Hero is not at all an underground/unknown band. They are one of the most popular metalcore bands ever.

Anyways. Just picked up Number 12's Mongrel. It's...well, it's TOO weird. I've listened to it three times and all the songs run together. There are some really awesome sections but man, it's just all over the place. Sometimes, it feels like it's just technicality for the sake of technicality. I think Worse Than Alone is a much better album.

 

[Wretched]

We'll, when I discovered protest the hero i was without internet for a multitude of years so I wasn't aware that they were well known. None of my friends know about it (most of my friends listen to metal), and everyone i introduce them to doesn't like them.
So... I figured they weren't too well known.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Well, to be fair they do have a very different sound than most popular metal/core groups around. I'm not a huge fan but I can appreciate their skill, creativity and musicianship. I love the songs "Divine Suicide of K" and "Turn Soonest to the Sea" a lot

 

[[oni]LoKo]

Musicians I would want to get together at a place, party and chill, and come up with the most amazing
sh*t
ever:

Serj Tankian, Devin Townsend, Maynard James Keenan & Billy Howerdel.....*imagination orgasm*

 

[Wretched]

Well, to be fair they do have a very different sound than most popular metal/core groups around. I'm not a huge fan but I can appreciate their skill, creativity and musicianship. I love the songs "Divine Suicide of K" and "Turn Soonest to the Sea" a lot

I don't consider them metalcore. I listened to other metalcore bands.... so I dunno.
I like turn soonest to the sea too (a verse has been in my sig for a week now).
I don't particularly like the other one. It always felt like they were trying too hard to make a song stick out of their album, like divinity within.
i bet you can guess my favorite song.
: 3

 

[GreenFox]

Isn't PTH mathcore? I mean they aren't anything like Dillinger but still they defintley arent metalcore but I can see why someone would say that.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I'd call Protest progressive metal I suppose.

 

[Meleeruler]

I would think they were both metalcore and mathcore.

EDIT: Though I've only heard stuff from Fortress. I haven't heard anything from their first album, which I remember hearing is more punk based?

 

[Luigitoilet]

Yeah, they started out as a hardcore punk group but gradually got more and more prog as they went on.

Still wouldn't call them mathcore though. Their stuff isn't that complex compared to groups that are normally called mathcore like #12 or Rolo Tomassi even a lot of Dillinger.

 

[Meleeruler]

Well, normally I'd agree that they're more prog and less mathcore, but the kicker for me is that their songs aren't that long, which isn't necessarily required to be prog but it's a pretty big identifier.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

too

many

sub-genres



In y'all's opinion, what should justify a barrier between styles / how small of a difference can they be?

 

[Wretched]

I would think they were both metalcore and mathcore.
They're definitely progressive metal. I think that the fact that there are so many subgenres, we shouldn't be able to fit them into anything with a largely defined culture. I haven't heard much of what anyone calls progressive.
EDIT: Though I've only heard stuff from Fortress. I haven't heard anything from their first album, which I remember hearing is more punk based?
Listen to Kezia, IMO, it is much better. In kezia, all of the lyrics are written by arif, but in fortress rody came in with his brutality imagery and kinda ruined the part I liked most about them. some of the songs are still good (wretch, goddess bound, the dissentience)

I'd call Protest progressive metal I suppose.
yursh

Isn't PTH mathcore? I mean they aren't anything like Dillinger but still they defintley arent metalcore but I can see why someone would say that.
progressive for the above reasons

Yeah, they started out as a hardcore punk group but gradually got more and more prog as they went on.
I hated "A Calculated Use of Sound" but I feel that the route they took was a mixed influence of 80's metal and punk (im not really aware of the subgenres of punk)
Still wouldn't call them mathcore though. Their stuff isn't that complex compared to groups that are normally called mathcore like #12 or Rolo Tomassi even a lot of Dillinger.

Well, normally I'd agree that they're more prog and less mathcore, but the kicker for me is that their songs aren't that long, which isn't necessarily required to be prog but it's a pretty big identifier.
I think they have created their own genre, because the only band that I can find that sounds like them is BTBAM, which had to have been a large infliuence on their style going from "A Calculated Use of Sound" to "Kezia." If we really have to define them in a current genre, though, I'd have to say progressive.

In y'all's opinion, what should justify a barrier between styles / how small of a difference can they be?
It really can be anything. There are so many interchangable characteristics of metal, so I think it is normal for us to want to group them in so many subgenres. They're useful for finetuning our exact tastes in music, which i am very picky about so I'm grateful

They said two of their biggest influences are megadeth and dream theatre. I can see both of those bands in them, really.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Megadeth + Dream Theater is a very apt description of Protest.

I generally don't pay attention to genres and subgenres when I'm listening to music for myself. But when discussing music it does help. Especially metal, since it has given rise to so many different types of heavy music in the last decade alone.

 

[Meleeruler]

As arrogant as it might sound I still disagree.

 

[Wretched]

I understand. Can you explain? My reasoning is that because there are already so many genres, why can't we just say that because protest the hero doesn't fit any of them, they've created their own subgenre? Its expanded into hundreds of subgenres of metal, so the diversity of protest the hero is definitely a standout when a few licks of the guitar or even a breakdown or two can influence the title of the genre given to a band. Protest the Hero strays far enough into the unexplored content of metal to classify their own genre as a band.

Edit: when i read over my post, I can see that it may seem like I'm going overboard because of my fanship for protest the hero, but I like many other bands and I'm sure that other bands have achieved this (nihilist, for example)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7ejERajp0
The beginning of the scandanavian death metal scene, and possibly the beggining of most of our more hardcore subgenres.

 

[Luigitoilet]

It's not like Protest is unique in that aspect. There are a lot of bands (especially in heavy/noisy music) that have a completely unique sound.

 

[Wretched]

I like many other bands and I'm sure that other bands have achieved this (nihilist, for example)

I didn't in any way say that other bands haven't done this, I was just responding to the placement that was being discussed. I even made a point in my post to say that I wasn't trying to single PTH out.

But I just found out they're recording a new album.
I discovered them after fortress so I never got to express hype for it. This gives me something to look forward to.

Edit: off the topic of PTH, if you want to know if you have ridiculous musical tolerance, listen to Today is the Day's album "Sadness will prevail" all the way through.

 

[Meleeruler]

Alright, I mulled it over and I'm going to change my stance to that they are a combination of mathcore and prog metal. I'd say the band is right in between the two. They lack the longer songs and 'deepness' the prog genre, and at the same time they lack the number of time changes (they have a lot but not ridiculous amount) and consistent brutality of the mathcore genre.

Though I don't think Megadeth + DT is a good description.

 

[Wretched]

Megadeth+dream theatre+metalcore influences.
That sounds pretty legit, actually. I've always associated prog with slower melodies and weaker vocals (not that its a bad thing, they are just softer-toned). maybe if they speed it up and had rougher vocals then I could see it.

EDIT: maybe to get you guys going
Converge is the best metalcore band
don't discuss, its a fact
But really, they're the best i've heard, but I would like to hear your opinions

 

[Wretched]

I am bumping because I really appreciated a nice discussion, but everyone seemed to ditch as soon as I finally started talking.

 

[Meleeruler]

I think Trivium is better.

 

[Wretched]

EDIT: lemme just reiterate on some levels, because as I built up an arguement it became cluttered.
They are currently thrash metal. They have a few characteristics of metalcore, but they lost a lot of them. Their stuff that I would consider closer to metalcore earlier in their career had better vocals, but they weren't as good at songwriting. They got better, lost their strong vocals, and are now much more thrash metal influenced.
I believe Converge is better at writing songs, and that their guitar work is better than what Trivium had in their undeveloped style.

Different topic, I just heard the human abstract.
I like them a lot
a lot

 

[Meleeruler]

Well, yeah nowadays they're definitely thrash metal, but their second album Ascendancy was where metalcore was at, mannn. I guess it's a bit unfair give Trivium the praise I give them on the count of I didn't like their first or third album at all.

And as much as I don't want this whole discussion to come full circle, the few bits I just listened to of the Human Abstract seemed like a more serious version of Protest.

 

[Wretched]

Uh, what do you mean by serious?
Rody, honestly while I feel he is an amazing vocalist, makes their lyrics seem outright meaningless. In an interview he said the reason for making their songs is to be brutal and you an see Arif just make a scrunchy face. He wrote kezia, and he put a lot of thought and sentiment into it. I believe it even shows his background. He (i believe) is of middle eastern descent and a lot of the songs give reference to that (divinity within for example, "I watch my temple fall to pieces", temple being what muslims call their church?). Women are generally treated with less respect there. Kezia was shot by a firing squad for a supposedly harmless crime that she wasn't aware of.
Rody seems to have created a defamatory image for them, saying that they aren't serious about their songs and that they just want to create an image of brutality. The few songs that I don't see depth in (bloodmeat and limb from limB) were written by him.
here, lemme give you an example... im going to find some lyrics for you.
Do you remember how it was when you bled?
When you loved and burned in those flames that you've kept
Because Vesta's long been sleeping
Now you've come to accept
that anatomy defines more than a few,

Of the gaping holes in our social fabric
And it defines more than a few one night stands,
And I mention more than a few prison bars melted into (melted into)
Melted in, melted in, melted into wedding bands

We've made you all the peasants and we've made ourselves the kings
Our queens are still subordinate as an angel {without wings}
But we make it easy to belong which means it's easy to be wrong
"Put some plastic in your ****, you'd look better as a blonde"

I remember when you were hopeful
never thought your life would be lived inside a coffin
With a moral sacrifice and a million social obligations,
labels and expectations
When you were young and a modern seventeen
in vogue (and vague) pursuit (of a) cosmopolitan dream

I take them just a serious as everyone else. Hopefully, arif will write all the songs and maybe some of the members will take more initiative to represent the band.

 

[Meleeruler]

Well, I wasn't talking about the lyrics, I was talking about the overall feel. Less punk and less zaniness would be a better description.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Human Abstract is pretty amazing, outside of their horrendous vocalist.

And having AJ Minette leave really hurt the band. The second album isn't nearly as good as the first.

 

[Wretched]

Well, I wasn't talking about the lyrics, I was talking about the overall feel. Less punk and less zaniness would be a better description.

Oh, I take them pretty seriously.
I didn't during a calculated use of sounds years, but songs like Blindfolds Aside.
During their live dvd some black dude was crying
some black dude
was crying

EDIT: I know its prolly frowned upon in the metal community, but I like deathcore. I just don't care when I'm listening to it. I'm sure every will be like "omg reasons wai its bad" but the fact is i can't justify why I like it.
I just do
I've been listening to sludge metal lately too, and this acid bath has caught my eye.

 

[GreenFox]

A calculated use of sound is horrible but its not an official album so

 

[Wretched]

Yep.
I hate it.
with a passion
so much passion

 

[Djent]

Whistlecore. \m/

 

[Wretched]

Thats a thing?
EDIT: oh I guess you're just trolling.

 

[Luigitoilet]

well, there is a song that might be considered whistlecore

unfortunately I can't find a youtube version or a link so you get to miss out!

Deathcore is great. I love Acacia Strain, Chelsea Grin, Glass Casket, Red Chord, etc etc ad nauseum. But then again, I am the exact opposite of a metal-purist so I don't speak for most metal fans.

 

[Jane]

got djent?

 

[Pikaville]

Did I hear protest the hero?

Oh yes I did.

I only heard them for the 1st time about 2 months ago.

They are a HUGELY tight band.

The drummer is more weapon than man.

BLOODMEAT! Man I love that main verse riff.

 

[Wretched]

Yep, I'm the recently over avid fan.
EDIT: I tap the beat to that song on my desk every day and it pisses people off.
but I don't even like bloodmeat.
Did you hear they're making a new album? early 2011 is the release date.
*hype*