The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Yanoss1313]

you can follow up a chole with a Dtilt, that combo indeed rocks, might even be able to get a fair in

lol, yeah yeah, i could have gone ahead and said: murder choke > 2x Dtilt > dashGrab > Dthrow >Uair/Fair/ganocide, but yeah, alot of that's easily DIable and techable.

but indeed it looks totally hardcore. especially with the momentum with aerial murder choke ^.^

Edit: i still can't get past how much i love brawl+

 

[JCaesar]

I love the way Lucario's up-B works now. Makes me wanna start using him because he's so fun.

Anyways, when we get livestream of the B+ tourney at Apex up (late tonight, ideally around midnight), I will post a link here.

 

[storm92]

first of all, the ness up b is amazing.

but i just have one question thats been bugging me recently. i cant tell if sdi is the same in brawl+ as it was in normal brawl. because you cant do aerials as soon as your hit anymore, does using the cstick to slow down your trajectory while airborn still work?

You'll slow down your trajectory in how you SDI with the C-stick and DI, but with how you can't attack while in hitstun in B+, no, hitting C-stick while you're still in stun will not slow down your trajectory.

 

[sandbags06]

You'll slow down your trajectory in how you SDI with the C-stick and DI, but with how you can't attack while in hitstun in B+, no, hitting C-stick while you're still in stun will not slow down your trajectory.

so basically the only way to successfully DI at high percents is to slam the cstick and controll stick right when you get hit by an attack?

 

[kupo15]

This exists in the NTSC version, as well, and was found when we first got hitstun, actually. I have a 36 hit combo with fox on my wii from just doing 7 or 8 dairs into a usmash. It can be escaped with SDI, however.

I don't think that move should be able to combo into itself despite being able to SDI out. I think more landing lag is needed seeing how that move in vbrawl was pretty low lag and now its even more so.

Also, I don't really like the ness up b no freefall.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I love Ness no freefall upB. >_>

Though the code seems to have made him have next to no lag after a PKT disappears. Not complaining, but PKT can actually lead into stuff now. Well, things other than PKT2 anyway.

 

[kupo15]

IMO, good ness' don't get gimped especially since the PKT can make such sharp turns. If you want to do anything to it, just make the PKT come out quicker

 

[GPDP]

I knew someone was gonna complain about it. Didn't think it'd be kupo, though.

 

[storm92]

so basically the only way to successfully DI at high percents is to slam the cstick and controll stick right when you get hit by an attack?

Good DI and SDI, yes.
You can also "wiggle" out of the tumble faster, but that makes only a few frames difference.

 

[Revven]

IMO, good ness' don't get gimped especially since the PKT can make such sharp turns. If you want to do anything to it, just make the PKT come out quicker

Good Ness' do get gimped though, quite badly, it's not hard. Ness only has PKT as his only recovery while Lucas has MANY options of recovery. It's quite unfair tbh, it doesn't hurt to help his recovery this way as he can still get gimped, just not as easily like "OH A HURR HURR, I MEANT TO ATTACK YOU BUT INSTEAD I RUN INTO YOUR PKT, HAR HAR!" etc.

IMO.

 

[thesage]

IMO, good ness' don't get gimped especially since the PKT can make such sharp turns. If you want to do anything to it, just make the PKT come out quicker

Uh... they can just float around you waiting for pkt1 to come out, forcing you to not recovery or give the enemy 8 damage and you die. It's not like it makes his recovery too good since pkt2 is still terrible.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

In this version, fox is broken. It is possible to link two dairs together, meaning that you can dair->dair->dair->etc.->Usmash. Also, I thought we removed the dair fix in the latest plussery set, is this possible even in NTSC-versions? In either way, find a way to fix fox's dair, prefferably without removing dair to u-tilt combo please.

Adding the smallest bit lag to Fox's jump preparation should give time to stop the dair combo (maybe).

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Not to mention that solid projectiles like Link's arrows can clank with PKT1 and half PKT2's distance.

 

[sandbags06]

Good DI and SDI, yes.
You can also "wiggle" out of the tumble faster, but that makes only a few frames difference.

wiggle only exists in 4.1 right? im using 4.0 untill 4.1 is officially released, so looks like i just need to improve my reflexes...

 

[toasty]

LOLLL @ "good Ness" player comment...that's all I can really say.

 

[sandbags06]

so i played brawl+ with some kids that were way better than me the other day, and after bein completely destroyed, i have some request and questions regarding changes being made to characters lol (we play 4.0 so if changes in 4.1 have been made i appologize).

first off, ivsaurs down throw to uair does way to much damage for how easy it is to pull off. ivy has plenty of other combo options that take a bit more skill, but can still rack in the same amount of damage. maybe some tweaks to down throw that made this set up a bit harder could be implemented.

id like to see pit's dair have less ending lag. i mean, it's not that great of a move, and its just too slow to be a verry usefull move. sure it has some use, but it's not that great. giving it a mnor speed boost would make it a bit better imo and would by no means make it broken.

obviously falcon's reverse knee need some nerfing, but im pretty sure this has already been done, right?

from what ive read fox's dair to utilt is beeing adjusted. i saw way too many 0-90% combos yesterday...

sheiks fair and ftilt are, well, ridiculous. i used sheik a bit back in normal brawl, and having to get two hits off with her fair off the stage in order to gimp people took me a long time to get down, and it was very gratifying to pull off. now her fair is just, "oh hey, im gonna jump, punch you, and you'll die, k?" way too easy, and i don't like it. im not saying take it back to brawl's low power, maybe just try to find a nice middle ground.

another thing regarding ivysaur, i read that he might get multiple tries with his up b, so, i think the speed of his razor leafs should be toned down just a tad.

i think the code that allows pit to get WoI back after being hit should be implemented. i mean, if you are an all star with pit, you can cary people off the edge no problem and get back with WoI without a worry. however, if you make one small flaw and your opponent gets back to the stage, it is incredibly easy to punish this move. i guess it's a high risk high reward kind of thing, but im just puting in my argument about why i think pit should get his recovery back if hit out of it.

also, could the knockback on wolf's uair be toned down a little bit? i just had some isssue juggling, but that may just be me.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

id like to see pit's dair have less ending lag. i mean, it's not that great of a move, and its just too slow to be a verry usefull move. sure it has some use, but it's not that great. giving it a mnor speed boost would make it a bit better imo and would by no means make it broken.

I thought pit could sh autocancel his dair?

 

[sandbags06]

I thought pit could sh autocancel his dair?

i meant like when he finishes the move while still in the air. it leaves him a little too vulnerable if it doesnt connect. thats what i experienced anyways.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Curious, what version are you playing Sandbag?

 

[Revven]

Curious, what version are you playing Sandbag?

He said 4.0.

Sandbag, I stopped reading when you said Ivysaur and Dthrow > Uair. Your main issue is that you're not DI'ing, when you learn to DI, you can avoid the Uair COMPLETELY from Dthrow.

Most of your complaints are probably from lack of good DI on your part. lrn2DI.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

The 5/8 build removed falcon's infinite jump recovery (for those who don't know it's his falcon kick that recovers his second jump), ivysaur's up b is really stupid. Just saying, anyone who hasn't played brawl+ then see's that will most definitely turn away. And zelda's upb with so little landing lag is like.. an unpunishable QAC.

 

[toasty]

Charizard's fire is too good of an edgeguard against Falcon. unless there's some magical area to sweetspot where you can't get hit

 

[leafgreen386]

Sandbag, shut up until you play on 4.1, k? Your sheik complaints have been entirely taken care of in 4.1. Fox's utilt was nerfed and his nair buffed, so his combos, although still very good, are no where near as easy or stupid as they are in 4.0. Your ivy complaints are completely unjustified, and wolf's uair is fine. I mean, it's fine if you're gonna give us feedback on the last officially released set, even if it isn't nearly as up to date as 4.1, but could you at least look at the changelist so you can know whether it's been fixed yet or not?

I don't think that move should be able to combo into itself despite being able to SDI out. I think more landing lag is needed seeing how that move in vbrawl was pretty low lag and now its even more so.

Adding the smallest bit lag to Fox's jump preparation should give time to stop the dair combo (maybe).

You're both wrong. We have the ability to nerf what the dair combos into without nerfing any other aspect of fox's gameplay. We already did it once - my fox dair nerf gave him a 7 to 9 frame advantage of foes, allowing him to easily get off a utilt or grab, but preventing usmash (and most certainly preventing another dair). Since players don't wanna take away fox's dair -> usmash, we can do the same thing again, except just give him a slightly higher frame advantage that would prevent the dair from comboing into itself, while still allowing dair -> usmash.

 

[iLink]

Umm would it be possible to speed up the actually attack on Double Team by 2 frames or so, so it actually does what it's supposed to? More often then not, it doesn't work because they just hold the shield button and they perfect shield it.

 

[Yingyay]

After letting a couple of my friends play the latest nightly for 5 hours+ we noticed a couple of things. 1)This set is near perfect. 2) Lucas's bat is a tad bit too powerful, its fast, and hits behind him. Other than that he's fine. 3) Lucario's new UpB is perfect. 4) Online play desyncs for a few specfic reasons. Whenever Ness's bat connected, there was a high chance that a Desync may occur. There were some other random desyncs but I cant pinpoint a specific cause.

 

[sandbags06]

He said 4.0.

Sandbag, I stopped reading when you said Ivysaur and Dthrow > Uair. Your main issue is that you're not DI'ing, when you learn to DI, you can avoid the Uair COMPLETELY from Dthrow.

Most of your complaints are probably from lack of good DI on your part. lrn2DI.

i know how to DI, im not a total n00b guy. and i never played against the ivysaur. it was a group of 6 people playing, these were things i witnessed and happended to me. i suppose i should of made that more clear.

Sandbag, shut up until you play on 4.1, k? Your sheik complaints have been entirely taken care of in 4.1. Fox's utilt was nerfed and his nair buffed, so his combos, although still very good, are no where near as easy or stupid as they are in 4.0. Your ivy complaints are completely unjustified, and wolf's uair is fine. I mean, it's fine if you're gonna give us feedback on the last officially released set, even if it isn't nearly as up to date as 4.1, but could you at least look at the changelist so you can know whether it's been fixed yet or not?

all right point taken, but loose the attitude kid. and if you hadnt noticed on a lot of my "complaints" i said something to the sort of "i read this" which implies that i looked at the changes, i was just looking for confirmation since i have not played 4.1 yet. i mean, its a nightly build, i try to keep up with everything every night. hopefully youre in college and know what finals week is, i dont have the time to research everything since there are some things more important than SSBB+ lol.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i don't agree with the ness upB buff at all.. you're supposed to work around your weaknesses.. especially ones that have been around since the first installment of the series.

 

[toasty]

i don't agree with the ness upB buff at all.. you're supposed to work around your weaknesses.. especially ones that have been around since the first installment of the series.

not if that one weakness was a TREMENDOUS reason that kept Ness down. Seriously, I've played Ness on a very high level in Melee and still do. I'm not trying to be cocky, I'm saying, this kind of thing matters when a character is so ridiculously easy to kill simply by placing your body in a certain place around a certain VERY predictable time. And don't even go into Marth Vs. Spacies or something from Melee...I'm just saying. A character shouldn't be dam.ned still just because he has been consistently since the first game.

I wish I could really make people understand how needed this was for Ness players.

 

[Rkey]

As long as Ness mains are responsible for their buffs/nerfs, and other mains do the same, we'll be alright. I admit, I don't play Ness much, but if the ones maining him have come to the conclusion that "this and that should be in", I lay my trust in them knowing that they have discussed the matter and reached an agreement.

We are all free to discuss any character, but only those maining the character and knowing the use, pros, cons and flaws of every move in their arsenal are the ones who should do the buffing and nerfing of the character.

 

[Kuga]

Well,might be possible to add a max of 3 times of PK2,idk,just a idea.

 

[toasty]

adding a max is unnecessary as it's quite difficult to get more than 3 or so out and still manage to recover. [if the first one is used from a point where you're trying to recover like being level with the stage or a little below it]. But at the same time if they let him PKT1 three or four times, I could live with that...maybe XD

Also: Rkey has a pretty good point. Though at the same time, exceptions should be made for players of high standing and report amongst the community [and I mean as a player, not as a SWF member.] who generally know what's what and could look at something or do something and be like "wow that should not be allowed to work"

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

When are we looking at a new official codeset? the nightly builds are getting pretty awesome and things look fairly stable in the newest build. Just wondering

 

[shanus]

When are we looking at a new official codeset? the nightly builds are getting pretty awesome and things look fairly stable in the newest build. Just wondering

Probably pretty soon.

 

[thesage]

The only potentially game breaking stuff that Ness has is some low percent combos into pkt2 that I'm not even sure work and are very percent specific. He's fine for now, I don't really think he needs anymore buffs.

 

[toasty]

I haven't played as Ness enough [nor have I played Brawl+ enough] to say the same for sure but from what I can tell he doesn't really need any buffs.....did you guys decide that to keep it the way it is in vBrawl where if Ness does PKT2 and hits someone his travel distance is shortened dramatically? Because that's pretty bad I hope you all consider allowing him to travel the distance PKT2 should go whether he makes contact with something or not.

My apologies if this was discussed at any length before as I haven't read the whole thread >_>

 

[JCaesar]

We shouldn't be completely erasing former character weaknesses, just allowing characters to overcome weaknesses that were too deep.

I think Ness needs a little more lag in between PKTs and he'll be fine. Same with Ivy. They're both very difficult to gimp right now, and honestly, they shouldn't be (they just shouldn't be the easysauce that they used to be).

edit: Apex Brawl+ results (with characters):

What I remember:

1: Chu Dat (Mostly ICs, also Kirby, Falcon, Ivy)
2: Yes! (Fox and a little Snake)
3: NinjaLink (Mostly Diddy, also Zelda, Ike, and others)
4: Hylian (G&W and Marth)
5: Boss (Mario & Luigi)
5: Slikvik (G&W and Peach)
7: Meep (Marth and Lucario)
7: Silven (Ike)
9: DJ Nintendo (Bowser)
9: Blackanese (dunno)
9: Crismas (Peach?)
9: Okin (Lucas)
13: JCaesar (Squirtle and ROB)
13: D1 (dunno)
13: PhillyRider (Peach)
13: Holy Nightmare (dunno)
17: GIMR (dunno)
17: Turbo Gilman (Fox and DDD)
17: Phase (dunno)
17: Beta Zealot (dunno)
17: ThumbsWayUp (dunno)
17: Dojo (dunno)
17: daPuffster (dunno)
17: Kage (dunno)
25: Xivk (dunno)
25: TUSM (dunno)
25: .com (dunno)
25: Rev (dunno)
25: HAT (DQed)
25: Hoyo (dunno)
25: SteveH (DK)
25: Ebo (dunno)
33: Rei (dunno)
33: Blast (dunno)
33: Camalange (dunno)
33: Mew2King (DQed)

Lots of the matches towards the end were saved, but you probably already saw them if you were watching the livestream around 3 or 4.

In case anyone was wondering, the brackets were seeded essentially randomly, only two levels of seeding, one for known good players and another for the rest.

And if anyone cares, I lost to DJ Nintendo and Hylain.

 

[goodoldganon]

We shouldn't be completely erasing former character weaknesses, just allowing characters to overcome weaknesses that were too deep.

I think Ness needs a little more lag in between PKTs and he'll be fine. Same with Ivy. They're both very difficult to gimp right now, and honestly, they shouldn't be (they just shouldn't be the easysauce that they used to be).

Agreed on all accounts. Ganondorf can't deal with pressure so we gave him a usable jab. It's not suddenly an angelic fix to all his problems with pressure, but at least he has something. I'm fine with Ness and Ivy getting multiple Up-b's but it certainly needs to be more reasonable then it is now.

 

[IC3R]

I was looking into the multiple UpB's for Ivy and Ness, and I found it to be almost too useful; I mean, One Vine Whip can smack an edgehogger, possibly even stagespiking them, and then recovering again. Ness could probably do something similar with his PK Thunder, since most people would jump right into the projectile without a second thought. Now, you can't get too close, or else you'll get zapped, and then he may end up recovering with PKT2 anyway! (It'd suck if you got stuck in the path of that )

Perhaps a little more cooldown could balance this out? I don't think Ivy and Ness deserve to get ***** through such an easy tactic like edgehogging, but now it's almost too easy to get past it...

 

[GHNeko]

Does Ivy have lag on the up B already?

Ness just needs more lag as well.

 

[toasty]

okay people may be mislead by that video...maybe? it really is NOT "too easy" to recover as Ness given the current update. If you want to add more cool down from PKT1 before he can PKT again...well I think only a few frames could make a big difference and almost make this not such a help for Ness.

It's just barely a help for Ness right now [that video was the ONLY time from that night where the multiple upB thing actually allowed me to recover successfully...and I'm pretty **** good with recovering].

Just please trust me and understand that people will find ways around it now that they know they have to. It's JUST right the way it is...any changes in the other direction will essentially nullify the buff at a higher level of skill


edit: ....you could try the extra cooldown frames and see how that works. I have a feeling though that eventually it will be a useless buff [as far as helping him recover successfully that is...UNLESS you enhance the knockback of PKT and also increase the cooldown time after PKT...that way people won't be so close that the delay of the next PKT will allow them to get into position to eat it again so easily]