The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[leafgreen386]

Guys, if you're having trouble comboing with fox's dair... practice timing it better. You have a lot of leeway for utilt. I can combo out of fox's new dair just fine at 0 buffer. In fact, I can even usmash about half the time, because shanus forgot to change the hitbox data to drop the base from 43 to 39.

Oh, but I did, did you read my post?
Did you at all factor in the frame data of characters who can retaliate in 2 frames?

Your understanding of hitstun is a little bit ridiculous. If you're in hitstun, you can't act. Period. A 7-9 frame advantage means you have 7-9 frames to do anything in.

Like Brawl.
Brawl is full of "Just barely"s. Who don't you just set the hit stun back to Brawl default then if it's more interesting.
Just barely to me means not guaranteed. If that's the case, what's the point of combos if they aren't true? I always work for my combos, I'm always looking for new combos to do. But when you destroy a staple, "working" for the combos runs into an entirely new context.
I want to see a video of someone stringing a good combo with this Fox against someone who DIs well..

No. Brawl is full of "this doesn't actually work"s. A "just barely" means just that - it will just barely combo, but it still combos. If I or almost anyone else says that something "just barely" works in this game, they mean it. They mean it works, but it's tight. Fox's new nair will combo against floaties regardless of DI. Fast fallers can tech it by DIing down and away, but you're still in a very good position to techchase them after that. Also, if you hit with the weak hit of the nair, you can avoid sending them into the tumble until about 50 or so, which will combo into something regardless, since... you can't DI non-tumble hits.

The air and off stage work hand in hand. Fox lack in range and priority, so other characters, just about all of them, can out space and out prioritize his aerials. I'm counting full hops, actual aerial combat, not short hops, because the purpose of them is doing aerials closer to the ground, which I wouldn't count as full blown aerial combat. You need to pay attention, DI prevents neutral air combos. Keeping fox as is is in no way holding the player's hand, and because you enjoy patronizing the skill of a Fox player doesn't change that. Good Fox players can keep a flow going without spamming down air and up tilt to high heaven. For those who do that, they find out that it's not as reliable as once conceived and move on to other methods.
No one seems to listen when I say that down air is unsafe, predictable, easily punished, easily out spaced and out prioritized. It's a bad approach method. It's spammable by noobs who still think Fox is top tier from his Melee days. Don't even get me started on holding players' hand for combos, Falco combos by stringing random moves together with a few lasers, Falcon ****ing speaks for himself, Mario, Luigi, Peach, all these people combo on a whim. Even Ganon combos with little effort. I've "played around" with it, that's how I believe I can say this, have you "played around" with your changes?

I have played around with my changes, and I've played around with non-dair/utilt combos, and they work. I know that they are possible, and it seems to me you're just not a very fast player and so are failing at performing them. It's easily possible to do 50%+ combos at low percents without even touching fox's dair. Launcher move -> uair -> uair works at mid percents. Nair -> utilt works great as a low percent combo starter against all characters. At higher percents, nair -> nair/dash attack/grab/usmash works on floaties or fast fallers with no/poor DI. I suggest you play around a lot more than you have with the new nair and utilt. I think you'll find that fox has a lot more combo options than you thought he did.

Try it out, I dare you I double dare you!
No jumping, like a back air stage spike, run off the ledge and do a back air, I dare you to make it back!
Neutral air, yeah, it's his fastest aerial, he can make it back, I didn't say **** about neutral air suiciding. How do I know, I've tried it, have you!?

Because the number one rule about using aerials offstage with every character is that you're not allowed to jump, right? Don't be a moron. Fox needs to dj aerial to make it back from an offstage aerial, yeah, but uh... who cares? Does this somehow make his edgeguarding bad? When I say he can use his aerials offstage and make it back, I'm referring to offstage edgeguarding, which is something fox can do. You make it sound as if fox can't bair offstage at all during regular gameplay (ie. not insanely high up due to being launched). Just because he can't stagespike with bair doesn't mean he can't use it as an effective edgeguard move and make it back.

[sarcasm]Well of course.[/sarcasm]

How else would you explain it other than chocking it up to psychological error?

I don't need to explain it any other way. You can't act out of hitstun in brawl+.

 

[CloneHat]

Uhhh... I haven't really noticed much difference with Fox personally, aside from being able to DI out of utilts (so you can follow up with a SH aerial). Nair barely feels different, and dair just has a few more lag frames so it isn't as noob-friendly.

 

[Kuga]

Well,his dair didnt need to be nerfed,its has crap priority predicable and punishable,there alot of Dair that are much better o.o'
Hes get ***** by utilts at low%,even with DI
His Utilt is all >.>'

Edit:His Utilt was nerfed in damage,too?

 

[matt4300]

Well,his dair didnt need to be nerfed,its has crap priority predicable and punishable,there alot of Dair that are much better o.o'
Hes get ***** by utilts at low%,even with DI
His Utilt is all >.>'

Edit:His Utilt was nerfed in damage,too?

Yes, OMFG yes. No utilt or any other move for that matter that can combo 3 times into itself and then into another move should do 10 damage that is insane. Fox for that matter is still incredible... All it takes is one hit on my link and hes at 50% 2 more combos= I'm dead... becuase of links recovery he can at 60 near edge and at 80 most other places kill me with a dair>dsmash.... no char should have that kind of stupid easy advantage on another char... but I'm not here to complain

foxes utilt needed a damage nerf... infact his moveset needs a damage nerf imo for how easy and fast he can rack up percents and kill on some chars, But I guess thats why we will have a tier list. Im sure once we get lots of tourney data we will see exactly whos good and who is usless (read as: cant compete with the best) I'm not saying hes broken.. I'm saying he utterly ruins 3 out of 5 of my mains ... as do the rest of the "good" chars but not to the extent of fox (or- shiek, MK, wario, marth ect ect)

Please dont flame me this is just my opinion of him right now... I know that braw+ is subject to change and besides some balance problems this is the best game i have ever played... literally. cant wait for the finished product!!

 

[Yanoss1313]

i picked up the pal version of brawl+ a day and a half ago... and i've already sunk 14 hours of life into it @.@ **** it's FUN!

 

[CloneHat]

Yes, OMFG yes. No utilt or any other move for that matter that can combo 3 times into itself and then into another move should do 10 damage that is insane. Fox for that matter is still incredible... All it takes is one hit on my link and hes at 50% 2 more combos= I'm dead... becuase of links recovery he can at 60 near edge and at 80 most other places kill me with a dair>dsmash.... no char should have that kind of stupid easy advantage on another char... but I'm not here to complain

foxes utilt needed a damage nerf... infact his moveset needs a damage nerf imo for how easy and fast he can rack up percents and kill on some chars, But I guess thats why we will have a tier list. Im sure once we get lots of tourney data we will see exactly whos good and who is usless (read as: cant compete with the best) I'm not saying hes broken.. I'm saying he utterly ruins 3 out of 5 of my mains ... as do the rest of the "good" chars but not to the extent of fox (or- shiek, MK, wario, marth ect ect)

Please dont flame me this is just my opinion of him right now... I know that braw+ is subject to change and besides some balance problems this is the best game i have ever played... literally. cant wait for the finished product!!

You can't just start throwing out nerfs for Fox because Link sucks awfully against him. Get him with a down grab or something and you can give him like 50%, and stop all his recoveries with dair.

 

[matt4300]

You can't just start throwing out nerfs for Fox because Link sucks awfully against him. Get him with a down grab or something and you can give him like 50%, and stop all his recoveries with dair.

yeh, my link deoesnt have nearly the trouble my bowser does... the reall problem is one dsmash at 80% and link is just plain dead... he goes to far out ot recover. I wouldnt hand out nerfs for no reason either. I have been on Irc in the debates and helped get links up-b were it is now. Im not just some random noob that says "ZOMG FOX IS CHEAP NERF HIM!!" I really just think some char have unfair advantages against chars like bowser and link because bowser is so **** easy to hit and link get gay comboed/gimped because of his still pretty bad recovery. I can only speak for bowser and link becuase I play them regularly, but im sure other chars get completely ***** by some of the good chars better moves..

 

[thesage]

Oh you can give buffs to the characters that suck...

 

[CloneHat]

yeh, my link deoesnt have nearly the trouble my bowser does... the reall problem is one dsmash at 80% and link is just plain dead... he goes to far out ot recover. I wouldnt hand out nerfs for no reason either. I have been on Irc in the debates and helped get links up-b were it is now. Im not just some random noob that says "ZOMG FOX IS CHEAP NERF HIM!!" I really just think some char have unfair advantages against chars like bowser and link because bowser is so **** easy to hit and link get gay comboed/gimped because of his still pretty bad recovery. I can only speak for bowser and link becuase I play them regularly, but im sure other chars get completely ***** by some of the good chars better moves..

Let Link not go into freefall after UpB! Then he can use his grapple!

 

[Kuga]

Well,His Utilt dont need a nerf damage,just wait the stale damage code o.o'

 

[matt4300]

Well,His Utilt dont need a nerf damage,just wait the stale damage code o.o'

You do realise that makes no sense. It would still do more damage than most utilts because EVERYONE would get the damage stale. It would change nothing. His utilt does more damage than freakin link (agin just using link as the example becuase I play him regularly) and link is soposed to be slow to make up for the damage he deals XD

 

[leafgreen386]

Well,His Utilt dont need a nerf damage,just wait the stale damage code o.o'

Stale damage may not be possible, actually. You see, in the launch speed formula (basically, what determines how far you're sent and how much hitstun you take), the damage a move does is one of the variables in the equation. We believe that this is how stale moves worked to degrade knockback in vbrawl. We can't overwrite that value with a constant, otherwise every move in the game that doesn't do that specific amount of damage would become wildly different.

I made fox's utilt into a move that will combo at low and mid percents, but won't encourage easy utilt spam or even utilt -> dair spam. At high percents it can combo into bair/uair for kills, and at even higher percents (around 130-140) it can kill on its own.

 

[Kuga]

Stale damage may not be possible, actually. You see, in the launch speed formula (basically, what determines how far you're sent and how much hitstun you take), the damage a move does is one of the variables in the equation. We believe that this is how stale moves worked to degrade knockback in vbrawl. We can't overwrite that value with a constant, otherwise every move in the game that doesn't do that specific amount of damage would become wildly different.

I made fox's utilt into a move that will combo at low and mid percents, but won't encourage easy utilt spam or even utilt -> dair spam. At high percents it can combo into bair/uair for kills, and at even higher percents (around 130-140) it can kill on its own.

I understand,and i agree with you.
But,his Dair dont need a nerf,80% of the people agree,this move is just good,but very *** when predicable,and exist many other Dair better tha this,his Dair and Utilt is his Signature,but Utilt was the problem,and you already fixed that,now nerf his Dair will crush him.

ololbadenglish =X

 

[matt4300]

I understand,and i agree with you.
But,his Dair dont need a nerf,80% of the people agree,this move is just good,but very *** when predicable,and exist many other Dair better tha this,his Dair and Utilt is his Signature,but Utilt was the problem,and you already fixed that,now nerf his Dair will crush him.

ololbadenglish =X

Leaf has said so many times now that you can STILL use attaks out of dair ... just not usmash on some chars,and since Dair 17%(i think.... >_> well it does alot) to Usmash 17% to Usmash17% is not posible now ... it wont be nearly as stupid.

 

[leafgreen386]

I understant,and i agree with you.
But,his Dair dont need a nerf,80% of the people agree,this move is just good,but very *** when predicable,and exist many other Dair better tha this,his Dair and Utilt is his Signature,but Utilt was the problem,and you already fixed that,now nerf his Dair will crush him.

ololbadenglish =X

The primary nerf to dair was in that it doesn't combo into usmash anymore (or it's not supposed to, at least - still needs to be fixed) and that it has slightly more landlag (but still less than normal brawl). It still combos into everything else it combo'd into (grab, utilt, shine, jab, dsmash). It just requires good timing as you have a smaller frame advantage than you used to (but again, it's enough to do all of these legit). The move was actually improved in one sense, however, being that opponents will no longer trip out of it at high percents, causing you to miss your combos.

 

[THK]

Is ROB supposed to have trouble grabbing the ledge from his up B in Brawl+?

 

[jokey665]

Is ROB supposed to have trouble grabbing the ledge from his up B in Brawl+?

He doesn't grab if you're still going up. Let off the gas before you reach the ledge and you'll sweetspot just fine.

 

[Vilt]

i got a problem. its telling me that the file i got has too many code lines. how do i fix this?

 

[leafgreen386]

i got a problem. its telling me that the file i got has too many code lines. how do i fix this?

You need to put the loader gct in the codes folder and the actual codeset in the private\wii\apps\RSBE\pf folder.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

4/23.. lol. watergun is ********. shield stun is so low too

 

[JCaesar]

Yes water gun is waaaay OP now, as anyone who was watching me in the livestream earlier knows

 

[XSilvenX]

Yeah.

A few things..

1.What was the explanation behind giving Wolf a Falco-like(Melee) shine? I know it's beta and you guys are going crazy but...huh? Changing things a little TOO much imo..

2.Squirtle's watergun is stupid as Skip said..

3.Hitstun relative to damage doesn't work so well, jab pressure doesn't work anymore since it's right back to vbrawl when it comes to that. Sure smashes and tilts still stun but getting grabbed out of pressure combos = lame and perpetuates shield camping once again. I think the way it is for the 4.1(4/7/09) is fine in terms of hitstun. The "lucas lock" or whatever you guys wanna call it isn't really all that bad.

I'll still be using 4/7/09 4.1 for now since this one is a little bit too on the wild side.

And by the way I fixed that Wario issue, I think it was due to my file structure. There was another folder "al" inside the apps folder. It had two files, I forgot the names but once I deleted it Wario's bite worked fine. Weird...

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i also think multihit/rapid fire/whatever you want to call it jabs should be nerfed (ex: falco, falcon)
you can really rack up some damage with jab spam even if the person does DI out.

 

[5ive]

Has anyone ever further discussed the idea of using Shield Canceling a dash to pull of a Jump Cancel Grab esque technique?

For those not aware of what these techniques do, they basically let you do a moving grab, except with the standing grab animation. For some characters, the standing grab has more range, but for some characters, you are better off with a dash grab.

I think we need testers to see which characters benefit from this. Opinions?

EDIT: Thanks for kindly letting me know this was OLD'd Silven

 

[XSilvenX]

Yeah...Old'd lolol.

VERY OLD'D.

 

[5ive]

I guess we still could benefit from character testing involving some input from the character specific topics.

 

[XSilvenX]

I think it's obvious which characters benefit from standing vs. running grab. It really isn't that big of a deal. You can test these on a whim..at a glance even. :-\

 

[matt4300]

ehh, this may be a stupid question but why are you guys buffing chars that don't need it... even if there just tests why are you testing on chars that dont need tests/that are good... I mean squirtle,falco,wolf,falcon,jiggz? mostly on wolf and squirtle.... why does squirtle need a faster dsmash? Wasent he even getting a nerfed utilt? Why does wolfs already broken shine get a comboing buff?

Alot of people are crying for ness buffs. And I dont want to sound like a broken record but many people including myself still feel link needs some work on his projectiles (makeing them more damaging, makeing bombs have a fixed kb for combos?) buffs on chars that need them seem more like a priority than crazy cheap shine shinnanigans. I know that these buffs might not make it in but the fact that they have been done seems off...

EDIT: and a peach buff would be nice she has a terrible time trying to get a kill.. Buffing the damage on her fthrow should make it launch further right? I think a good 13 percent from 10 would be sweet. Mabye as high as 15 I mean D3s bthrow does 16? Why not. OH and letting her grab the ledge backwards after up-b !!

 

[XSilvenX]

ehh, this may be a stupid question but why are you guys buffing chars that don't need it... even if there just tests why are you testing on chars that dont need tests/that are good... I mean squirtle,falco,wolf,falcon,jiggz? mostly on wolf and squirtle.... why does squirtle need a faster dsmash? Wasent he even getting a nerfed utilt? Why does wolfs already broken shine get a comboing buff?

Alot of people are crying for ness buffs. And I dont want to sound like a broken record but many people including myself still feel link needs some work on his projectiles (makeing them more damaging, makeing bombs have a fixed kb for combos?) buffs on chars that need them seem more like a priority than crazy cheap shine shinnanigans. I know that these buffs might not make it in but the fact that they have been done seems off...

AGREED!!! Definitely

 

[5ive]

I think it's obvious which characters benefit from standing vs. running grab. It really isn't that big of a deal. You can test these on a whim..at a glance even. :-\

Heh, guess you're right. Input would still be nice.

That smiley should be smiling though D'=

 

[The Cape]

Matt, I told you just yesterday that we have the inability to edit most projectiles right now.

If you want to see it done so bad, go write us a projectile code and we can discuss it.

Also, Link has a sword and projectiles and zair. Best zoning char in the game in my opinion, he needs projectile buffs why?

As for Ness, testing a few ideas this weekend, see what sticks.

 

[GuruKid]

So yeah, just did a smashfest with Silven and Skip... we pretty much deemed the last codeset to be, quite simply, a bit silly.

We know it's just for testing, and you guys are trying not to theorysmash here (as that gets little done), but yeah, the latest set is a bit ridiculous. An even more super-soaker-status watergun, spammable D-smashes... Squirtle was already a solid character in the 4/7/09 codeset; he definitely does NOT need those buffs (this coming from a PT main).

And that shieldstun reduction... definitely promotes shield camping. I know realism would dictate that jabs and other relatively weak moves should cause less hitstun, but gameplay really suffers. Other various changes deterred me from continuing to play this version, as the changes just throw the game off in a really unpleasant way.

I do praise the "switch on death" for PT now, though. It's a good start for making PT and the individual pokes unique.

I'll still be using 4/7/09 4.1 for now since this one is a little bit too on the wild side.

Definitely. I've already done my testing of the newest codeset; now I'll revert to the older, more solid one.

 

[shanus]

So yeah, just did a smashfest with Silven and Skip... we pretty much deemed the last codeset to be, quite simply, a bit silly.

We know it's just for testing, and you guys are trying not to theorysmash here (as that gets little done), but yeah, the latest set is a bit ridiculous. An even more super-soaker-status watergun, spammable D-smashes... Squirtle was already a solid character in the 4/7/09 codeset; he definitely does NOT need those buffs (this coming from a PT main).

And that shieldstun reduction... definitely promotes shield camping. I know realism would dictate that jabs and other relatively weak moves should cause less hitstun, but gameplay really suffers. Other various changes deterred me from continuing to play this version, as the changes just throw the game off in a really unpleasant way.

I do praise the "switch on death" for PT now, though. It's a good start for making PT and the individual pokes unique.



Definitely. I've already done my testing of the newest codeset; now I'll revert to the older, more solid one.

Nice post, I wish more people posted constructively like that. A lot of these changes were exploratory (i.e. watergun and wolf shine) which were leaked to the public so we just released it as a public test anyway. Feedback like this is always welcome and I agree with a lot of it.

 

[goodoldganon]

So yeah, just did a smashfest with Silven and Skip... we pretty much deemed the last codeset to be, quite simply, a bit silly.

We know it's just for testing, and you guys are trying not to theorysmash here (as that gets little done), but yeah, the latest set is a bit ridiculous. An even more super-soaker-status watergun, spammable D-smashes... Squirtle was already a solid character in the 4/7/09 codeset; he definitely does NOT need those buffs (this coming from a PT main).

And that shieldstun reduction... definitely promotes shield camping. I know realism would dictate that jabs and other relatively weak moves should cause less hitstun, but gameplay really suffers. Other various changes deterred me from continuing to play this version, as the changes just throw the game off in a really unpleasant way.

I do praise the "switch on death" for PT now, though. It's a good start for making PT and the individual pokes unique.

*applauds*

Helpful, intelligent posts are the best.

 

[Yanoss1313]

seems i might be a week or 2 behind with the version? mines the 14 april 2009 [Pal] codeset. is there a newer beta? or is it not official?

Edit: btw, i'm just here as a player, but i didn notice in the version i'm playing, that since ganons jab hits on around 2 or 3 frames... it seems a little much that it's KOing at around 120%... anyway, thats my two cents, keep up the good work guys

 

[Deleted member]

PAL is near perfectly up to date, with some non-gameplay things missing (if you want a CSS THAT bad...)

great to hear more and more PAL players are picking it up and liking it!

 

[Yanoss1313]

PAL is near perfectly up to date, with some non-gameplay things missing (if you want a CSS THAT bad...)

great to hear more and more PAL players are picking it up and liking it!

Nah, the version i've got's great! I was just wondering because everyone was talking about stuff i wasn't aware of

 

[GreatFalco]

great to hear more and more PAL players are picking it up and liking it!

Yeah, Brawl+ is awesome, I'm glad you guys port brawl+ to PAL. At first I must admit that I thought Brawl+ was a melee 2.0, but I realized the true point of the project after checking some threads. I know that good smashers will love B+, so I'll do my best to spread it through them.

Keep the good work!

 

[Rkey]

Wait, you mean that the IC fixes are in the version I received?

 

[Yanoss1313]

Yeah, Brawl+ is awesome, I'm glad you guys port brawl+ to PAL. At first I must admit that I thought Brawl+ was a melee 2.0, but I realized the true point of the project after checking some threads. I know that good smashers will love B+, so I'll do my best to spread it through them.

Keep the good work!

my thoughts exactly!