The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Da Man]

PAL is near perfectly up to date, with some non-gameplay things missing (if you want a CSS THAT bad...)

great to hear more and more PAL players are picking it up and liking it!

Yeah a CCS would really be good, all 39 characters shown and to be able to pick Zamus and her colors the easy way.

Plus it looks better than the default character selection screen.

 

[Sukai]

Here's the solution: play against humans and not CPUs. I also assume you like ez combos like Fox Utilt > Utilt > Utilt > Dair > Utilt > Uair, huh? While I have yet to try the change myself, I really don't think this is a big issue especially since someone like JCeaser isn't complaining about it and played with it against a competent human opponent. You just like the way things were before it seems and are just whining about it instead of giving it time, much like the other changes people have been responding negatively to like Wolf's new shine.

Give it time, if more people complain about it like you are, then we will reconsider. Otherwise, if things are positive, it's not changing, simple as that.

Alright, tell me this, if I am fighting cpus, how can I say that neutral air is escapable from combos with DI? Have you been reading my last posts?
I guess since you missed my whole comment on me always trying to find new combos, I say not.
Down air is a staple of his, now it just doesn't seem to get the job done anymore. Again, who cares if a particular combo is easy? Again, there are characters with better combos that are just as easy can can accumulate more damage, I barely up tilted as it was, I usually follow up a down air with a jab cancel and grab, so please shut the **** up about "assuming" I like it easy. This won't bode well at all. Again, you guys nerfed his staple, giving ]up tilt more knockback and a different angle is enough to prevent down air, up tilt chains. Increase the cool down, so it's not spammable. It seems there's more hate going around for his up tilt than his down air.
**** up tilt, bring down air back down, it's slows the pace.
Again, one or two changes are just fine in my opinion, but not all three. Given that I hate his neutral air now, I can probably cope with it, and it seem everyone hates Fox for having a combo (defeats the purpose of Brawl+) and you guys want it gone, that's fine, I guess. But don't **** his staple move in the process. I'm still "giving it time", still trying out things here and there to see if just maybe, it's not so bad, but I've yet to come to a conclusion. Falco, don't be a douche and assume random **** about people, try asking questions to know for sure.

I have played around with my changes, and I've played around with non-dair/utilt combos, and they work. I know that they are possible, and it seems to me you're just not a very fast player and so are failing at performing them. It's easily possible to do 50%+ combos at low percents without even touching fox's dair. Launcher move -> uair -> uair works at mid percents. Nair -> utilt works great as a low percent combo starter against all characters. At higher percents, nair -> nair/dash attack/grab/usmash works on floaties or fast fallers with no/poor DI. I suggest you play around a lot more than you have with the new nair and utilt. I think you'll find that fox has a lot more combo options than you thought he did.

Are you actually telling me combos that rely on poor DI? What's wrong with you!? If I'm in a competitive environment, ~why the hell~ would I ever rely on such combos? Seriously, who would throw their weight behind a combo that won't work with good DI? I guess If I was whipping on my noob friend maybe, but not on an actual skilled player, which I can safely assume there are alot of them in a tournament environment. Dude, what the hell???
You lay down some real 0-50%+ combos, not that bull****.
The aerial combos, I suppose are fine.

Because the number one rule about using aerials offstage with every character is that you're not allowed to jump, right? Don't be a moron.

>.>
Wait, I try for a back air stage spike, a classic move, and suicide, because of the gravity values, and you're calling me a moron?
Just what I expected.
Well I'm just going to suggest to someone else to speed up the cool down of his back air.

Fox needs to dj aerial to make it back from an offstage aerial, yeah, but uh... who cares? Does this somehow make his edgeguarding bad? When I say he can use his aerials offstage and make it back, I'm referring to offstage edgeguarding, which is something fox can do. You make it sound as if fox can't bair offstage at all during regular gameplay (ie. not insanely high up due to being launched). Just because he can't stagespike with bair doesn't mean he can't use it as an effective edgeguard move and make it back.

Whoa, who said anything about edge guarding? Shine gimp much? Fox does have above average edgeguarding, but that's about it, just above the average line, not that it's a bad thing, but things can backlash for Fox hard if he screws up. My point is, why would you keep his back air like that? If that's the case, then return Ike's neutral air back to it's normal cool down.

I don't need to explain it any other way. You can't act out of hitstun in brawl+.

Alright, alright.

Even at 75% ALR for dair, I had trouble even dairing to utilt. The utilt and nair changes are great, dair, not so much.

I find the same thing happening as well and 100% agree with you on this.

Yea. I love the utilt change personally. I'm someone who hates simple repetitive combos. I fount the Gonzo combo for kirby in vbrawl to b very boring and i love having the abilitiy to mix things up now with my grabs. So personally, i find Fox much more satisfying and enjoyable now that its not the same wishy washy combo and even if i dont pull off something as damage inducing as the old dair>utilt>repeat i still feel like I did something cooler and more fun.

The dair nerf im not really that fond of. I dont really see it as something that needs to be there.

Fox isnt that bad either, although his dair didnt need to be nerfed, its just one of those moves you dont wanna be caught in, like marth's ForwardB for instance.

Well,his dair didnt need to be nerfed,its has crap priority predicable and punishable,there alot of Dair that are much better o.o'

I understand,and i agree with you.
But,his Dair dont need a nerf,80% of the people agree,this move is just good,but very *** when predicable,and exist many other Dair better tha this,his Dair and Utilt is his Signature,but Utilt was the problem,and you already fixed that,now nerf his Dair will crush him.

ololbadenglish =X

Hey Falco, are these enough to warrant for Down air to revert back?

 

[cobaltblue]

Me and my friend played 23rd night build and I have to say, I am loving sonic's Up smash spike. It hits hard enough to spike the player off a ledge if done right at 60ish% but its not insta gib which is good. My friend also adapted to the Fox changes pretty quickly and thought they fit. However he isn't pro fox yet so make of that what you will.

Our only complaint is that FLUDD is wayyyy too good now. I only screw around with mario but when I used it on his fox while he was doing fox fire I could easily push him a good distance away from the stage for a KO. Hell one time he even did the side B, was completely over the stage and FLUDD still managed to knock him off pretty far for a KO. Taking in mind I suck with Mario, FLUDD would simply be broken in the hands of a Mario main.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[leafgreen386]

Are you actually telling me combos that rely on poor DI? What's wrong with you!? If I'm in a competitive environment, ~why the hell~ would I ever rely on such combos? Seriously, who would throw their weight behind a combo that won't work with good DI? I guess If I was whipping on my noob friend maybe, but not on an actual skilled player, which I can safely assume there are alot of them in a tournament environment. Dude, what the hell???
You lay down some real 0-50%+ combos, not that bull****.
The aerial combos, I suppose are fine.

Nair -> utilt/instant dash attack/grab works until 50% or so against every character in the game. That's around when the soft hit of the nair begins to tumble, but before that it cannot be DI'd and so cannot be avoided (with the hard hit it's somewhere around 35% that it tumbles). And a tumble nair hit will still combo into any of the followups I listed against floaties, including usmash at killing percents. Fast fallers have the ability to DI down and away and tech, but techchasing is hardly a bad thing, and with fox's speed, I'd say he's pretty good at it, actually. If they do happen to miss the DI on the nair (again, these are fast fallers I'm talking about here only; you don't need to worry about this with floaties), then you get to straight-up combo them.

>.>
Wait, I try for a back air stage spike, a classic move, and suicide, because of the gravity values, and you're calling me a moron?
Just what I expected.
Well I'm just going to suggest to someone else to speed up the cool down of his back air.

Hey, I'm fine with that. The move autocancels long before you can jump out of it, and would not be opposed at all with speeding up his bair a bit so he can survive running off and bairing. I do admit that it's pretty stupid he can't make it back from that.

 

[Alopex]

I really don't understand how people can say that about Squirtle's Water Gun but come out in droves to support the change for Mario.

Mario is already the SUPERIOR edgeguarder of the pair and it's not like he's a bad character in Brawl+, in fact he's quite good and definitely at least as good as Squirtle.

So what gives with the double standard?

If you don't want EITHER character to have the FLUDD change, that's fine. But there's no rationalizing a one-sided bias.

 

[GHNeko]

I will bite anyone who wants to weaken Mario's FLUDD. >_>

 

[Rudra]

I really don't understand how people can say that about Squirtle's Water Gun but come out in droves to support the change for Mario.

Mario is already the SUPERIOR edgeguarder of the pair and it's not like he's a bad character in Brawl+, in fact he's quite good and definitely at least as good as Squirtle.

So what gives with the double standard?

If you don't want EITHER character to have the FLUDD change, that's fine. But there's no rationalizing a one-sided bias.

Pretty much this.
Mario has both the Cape and FLUDD for gimping while Squirtle only has Water Gun...and Mario got a buff for FLUDD?

What...?

 

[Yingyay]

Alright after an hour again of playing B+ I've noticed a few silly things.
-Wolf's reflector was good in vBrawl there was no need to change it.
-Sheik's ftilt, its ok but DI might make it impossible to chase the opponent but this may not be a big deal. And her Fair nerf makes her feel more like her vBrawl version. It doesnt kill well until 140% off the edge. I think its kinda nerfed too much.
-Same thing i posted about fox from above. His Dair didnt need to be nerfed.
-Falco's reflector is........not good lol. vBrawl version was fine.
-Squirtle's dsmash is awkwardly spammable now. It doesnt help him too much (but since i dont main him its not a clear opinion so ignore if you want)
-Sonic's uSmash spiking, it feels like you guys made him into a completly different character. Sonic before this was great. he had everything vBrawl had to offer plus hitstun which made him great.
His Dsmash as well. I think reverting him back to his previous version would be best.

If it aint broke dont fix it lol

 

[THK]

I was coming in to say "what" about Squirtle's water gun and Mario's FLUDD but I see it's already been done.

 

[Yingyay]

I think mario and squrtle's water gun should have similar knockback or watever
squrtle's is a little bit too much right now

 

[Plum]

I love the change to FLUDD and Water Gun, but taking FLUDD to the level it is at is overkill.

As far as gimping goes FLUDD was for the most part a useless move with some exceptions like against Ike, but in the situations FLUDD could have been used a Cape would work just fine.
The buff made it worth using, but I found that it was just too good at what it was doing. The Cape takes a degree of skill to time it and space it correctly especially when you wanted to throw in a Superman with it (the glide effect on specials when you use it while running off the edge). The FLUDD has enough range that with the current buff it became something you could just spam and gimp without any thought. There were a lot of characters that literally could not recover when I was messing around with it.

I love that you were trying to turn it into a useful move, and I understand that it is a test, but it needs to be toned down a bit in the next test. The way I see it, there should always be a choice of whether or not the Cape or FLUDD will be the better choice. The FLUDD needs an improvement to have more of a consideration but it should be something that requires a little bit of skill to effectively gimp with only the FLUDD. You should have to know how far an opponents recovery goes, and then come up with a zone offstage in which the FLUDD will guarantee a gimp, or still allow them to make it back. If they are inside that zone then the Cape should be your choice, outside of it the FLUDD.

And I will say that Squirtle's Water Gun should be slightly stronger then the FLUDD. Key word being slightly because it shouldn't be the easily spammed free gimp that the current test build has it. Mario does have the Cape, and a spike to help him gimp where as Squirtle is stuck with Water Gun as his only choice.

I guess it really comes down to experimenting until that sense of balance exists.

 

[Revven]

Alright after an hour again of playing B+ I've noticed a few silly things.
-Wolf's reflector was good in vBrawl there was no need to change it.
-Sheik's ftilt, its ok but DI might make it impossible to chase the opponent but this may not be a big deal. And her Fair nerf makes her feel more like her vBrawl version. It doesnt kill well until 140% off the edge. I think its kinda nerfed too much.
-Same thing i posted about fox from above. His Dair didnt need to be nerfed.
-Falco's reflector is........not good lol. vBrawl version was fine.
-Squirtle's dsmash is awkwardly spammable now. It doesnt help him too much (but since i dont main him its not a clear opinion so ignore if you want)
-Sonic's uSmash spiking, it feels like you guys made him into a completly different character. Sonic before this was great. he had everything vBrawl had to offer plus hitstun which made him great.
His Dsmash as well. I think reverting him back to his previous version would be best.

If it aint broke dont fix it lol

Dsmash was terrible, a useless Smash altogeher for Sonic, it needed a speed up.
Usmash helps his lack of a techchasing game, we're keeping it for now.
Wolf and Falco's shines are gone, stop complaining about it in 4-23, wait for the next one.
Same with Squirtle Dsmash
Sheik Fair I personally wanted 125 KBG but, the speed up with 120 KBG supposedly makes it good. I'm going to be messing with the Fair today, I'll see what you're talking about.
Fox Dair, I also need to look at, I bet it's fine and you guys who are whining about it just need to get GOOD with Fox instead of acting like he needs to be an EZ character.

My responses^

 

[Yingyay]

Dsmash was terrible, a useless Smash altogeher for Sonic, it needed a speed up.
Usmash helps his lack of a techchasing game, we're keeping it for now.
Wolf and Falco's shines are gone, stop complaining about it in 4-23, wait for the next one.
Same with Squirtle Dsmash
Sheik Fair I personally wanted 125 KBG but, the speed up with 120 KBG supposedly makes it good. I'm going to be messing with the Fair today, I'll see what you're talking about.
Fox Dair, I also need to look at, I bet it's fine and you guys who are whining about it just need to get GOOD with Fox instead of acting like he needs to be an EZ character.

My responses^

-Im not really a fox player but, if one of his combos are gone it makes him less to worry about lol just trying to help my opponents out.
-Sonic's uSmash, I guess its up to how its being used for now. Maybe im overhyping it lol
-I say sheik fair for 125kbg >=)
-Did anybody else get any upgrades? I wanna help test these things too lol

 

[IC3R]

I was coming in to say "what" about Squirtle's water gun and Mario's FLUDD but I see it's already been done.

I won a 4-stock match against a Lv9 CPU by using Water Gun alone...Pwnt.
I like the pushback increase, but it seems to be a bit too much...but that's just me...

Are transformations done by pressing <- on the D-pad?

 

[Plum]

Really have to agree with SMK on Fox.

Pretty much anything he could have done with Dair is possible. Frame date backs that up.
So what if it takes more work?
I would rather have it take some more skill to accomplish then to see Fox absolutely dominate lower levels of play because of it.

I love Sonic's Usmash now.
In vBrawl he was built around punishment, and this adds to that idea in so many ways. The fact that he is the fastest ground character should also mean he is one of the best tech chasers, and his Usmash fits perfectly into that idea now. Not to mention it also gives him another edgeguarding option, which at the same time isn't overpowered or anything. It is a very balanced move in my experience in both of those aspects. Time your recovery and you never have to worry about the spike off stage. You can also punish Sonic if you predict what he is going to do outside of Usmash. If you predict he is going to chase you to the left then tech in place and punish him.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Dsmash was terrible, a useless Smash altogeher for Sonic, it needed a speed up.
Usmash helps his lack of a techchasing game, we're keeping it for now.

lol. sonic lacking tech chasing.. lol

 

[Yingyay]

Really have to agree with SMK on Fox.

Pretty much anything he could have done with Dair is possible. Frame date backs that up.
So what if it takes more work?
I would rather have it take some more skill to accomplish then to see Fox absolutely dominate lower levels of play because of it.

I love Sonic's Usmash now.
In vBrawl he was built around punishment, and this adds to that idea in so many ways. The fact that he is the fastest ground character should also mean he is one of the best tech chasers, and his Usmash fits perfectly into that idea now. Not to mention it also gives him another edgeguarding option, which at the same time isn't overpowered or anything. It is a very balanced move in my experience in both of those aspects. Time your recovery and you never have to worry about the spike off stage. You can also punish Sonic if you predict what he is going to do outside of Usmash. If you predict he is going to chase you to the left then tech in place and punish him.

lol I'll have to test it on actual players tho, so i guess i did over-hype it. Im sorry bout that.
Also did anyone else notice that sheild stun is lower? Not saying its a completly bad thing, it helps characters like DDD and people with tether grabs out.

 

[Revven]

lol. sonic lacking tech chasing.. lol

Well, okay he has A LOT of techchasing but seriously, it doesn't mean he was still lacking before. Talk to Blank about it, it was his idea.

It's not broken by any means so there's no reason to take it out. It works for Sonic and makes a pretty useless Usmash into a pretty good one.

 

[IC3R]

My Charizard's B-Throw -> Dash Attack -> Grab combo doesn't work anymore

wut hapind 2 mah hitzutns?

 

[Alopex]

Ok good, we're getting actual feedback on the FLUDD and Water Gun stuff now as opposed to just "No buff 4 Squirtle pl0x" that we were getting before.

In the coding, Squirtle's Water Gun was actually given a weaker buff than Mario's. But it seems that people are finding out that the opposite is the case. So we'll have a look at that and see what's going on.

Likewise, it seems part of the issue is that the FLUDD and Water Gun chances are too much to begin with. So it seems that it's not the buffs people are against, but just the AMOUNT of buff they were given.

Am I getting this right?

 

[THK]

I'm no Fox pro but I can't see whats wrong with him. My friend who IS a beast with Fox DOES see what you guys are complaining about, but doesn't consider it a problem.

Also has Kirby had any tweaks done? I can't really notice much. F-Smash seems a bit weaker, but maybe it's just me.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Alright after an hour again of playing B+ I've noticed a few silly things.
-Wolf's reflector was good in vBrawl there was no need to change it.
-Sheik's ftilt, its ok but DI might make it impossible to chase the opponent but this may not be a big deal. And her Fair nerf makes her feel more like her vBrawl version. It doesnt kill well until 140% off the edge. I think its kinda nerfed too much.
-Same thing i posted about fox from above. His Dair didnt need to be nerfed.
-Falco's reflector is........not good lol. vBrawl version was fine.
-Squirtle's dsmash is awkwardly spammable now. It doesnt help him too much (but since i dont main him its not a clear opinion so ignore if you want)
-Sonic's uSmash spiking, it feels like you guys made him into a completly different character. Sonic before this was great. he had everything vBrawl had to offer plus hitstun which made him great.
His Dsmash as well. I think reverting him back to his previous version would be best.

If it aint broke dont fix it lol

Imo Sonic's Usmash does better in what people always said he was good with, techchasing. Without a reliable KO move before I think this gives him the extra push he needed to compete. Otherwise, Brawl+ took away his OOS options and with better punishment options against his low priority moves/approaches while he doesn't combo as well himself, he needed something new to be comparable. Usmash is like what his Dthrow was supposed to do anyways, and if I'm not mistaken it sends people slightly backwards and with DI they go even farther so I doubt it'd be an actual spiking tool. Sonic was good at techchasing but he had few options to set those techchases up with.

I agree with most comments people have made about the new combo shines. They're kind of ridic. I think the buffs to the water gun are reasonable, but then again the two characters that have them already have good edgeguarding options combined with the water guns.

I like a lot of the buffs done in the set though, just some could have been done better, or with other methods. Keep it up guys.

 

[Revven]

Fsmash has more wind-down for Kirby, other than that, he has received no changes.

 

[Yingyay]

Kirby + hitstun = unholy
You can dthrow into fsmash now. imagine if it didnt get weaker O_o But it kills at 120% on the edge. So i wouldnt consider it bad.

 

[Plum]

Ok good, we're getting actual feedback on the FLUDD and Water Gun stuff now as opposed to just "No buff 4 Squirtle pl0x" that we were getting before.

In the coding, Squirtle's Water Gun was actually given a weaker buff than Mario's. But it seems that people are finding out that the opposite is the case. So we'll have a look at that and see what's going on.

Likewise, it seems part of the issue is that the FLUDD and Water Gun chances are too much to begin with. So it seems that it's not the buffs people are against, but just the AMOUNT of buff they were given.

Am I getting this right?

Yeah, definitely, at least for me and that is the message I'm getting from everyone else.

lol I'll have to test it on actual players tho, so i guess i did over-hype it. Im sorry bout that.
Also did anyone else notice that sheild stun is lower? Not saying its a completly bad thing, it helps characters like DDD and people with tether grabs out.

Doesn't the new code reduce shieldstun on weaker attacks while trying to keep it up for stronger ones?
Correct me if I'm wrong there.

I can understand that you are trying to be realistic in that a jab shouldn't have as much shieldstun as a smash for instance, but I do think it promotes a little too much shield camping. I could get away with a lot more shield and grab spam with DDD because of it. Didn't even try with Olimar, but I imagine it being worse with him because of his godly grab.

It's not horrible, but it isn't as good as the 4/7 shieldstun. I saw a lot of posts saying that others were switching it out for the 4/7 code too.

It promotes a more shield campy game in general, certainly not as bad as vBrawl but to an extent. I just don't like it as much.

 

[Yingyay]

Yeah, definitely, at least for me and that is the message I'm getting from everyone else.



Doesn't the new code reduce shieldstun on weaker attacks while trying to keep it up for stronger ones?
Correct me if I'm wrong there.

I can understand that you are trying to be realistic in that a jab shouldn't have as much shieldstun as a smash for instance, but I do think it promotes a little too much shield camping. I could get away with a lot more shield and grab spam with DDD because of it. Didn't even try with Olimar, but I imagine it being worse with him because of his godly grab.

It's not horrible, but it isn't as good as the 4/7 shieldstun. I saw a lot of posts saying that others were switching it out for the 4/7 code too.

It promotes a more shield campy game in general, certainly not as bad as vBrawl but to an extent. I just don't like it as much.

I havent sen too much sheild-camping but i can also see where you're coming from. But there were some moves that wrecked shields in 4/7 ver. Like fox's lasers (lol fox gets brought up more than the sun) although you could just roll away from it, it locked you in sheild too well. There might've been other moves that did the same. So i guess they're trying to find a good sheild-stun rate. This one being to grab-spam friendly while the other being a little to much.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Kirby + hitstun = unholy
You can dthrow into fsmash now. imagine if it didnt get weaker O_o But it kills at 120% on the edge. So i wouldnt consider it bad.

F-smash kills lower then that my friend Also, what do you mean if it didnt get weaker? There are no stale moves so it's always fresh.

Also, along with the Fsmash cool down lag, kirby also has 1.1 faster falling if you want to count that as a change.

He does need two buffs though. One buff is a different angle after copy or less ending lag so that he doesnt get punished with a D-air for successfully doing a move. And the 2nd buff is perhaps the biggest. He needs his melee Hiiiiii back.

 

[Alopex]

The shieldstun change, by the way, was a mistake that we're already addressing in the next set. It was a misinformed suggestion that accidentally got into the set. The new value is higher than this one but less than the previous one, and we're testing to see if it's the good medium we're looking for.

 

[Sukai]

Fox Dair, I also need to look at, I bet it's fine and you guys who are whining about it just need to get GOOD with Fox instead of acting like he needs to be an EZ character.

My responses^

No Johns Falco.
You said if enough people comment on Fox's down air as such, a change would be made, no point *****ing about it since it actually happened.
But I'm a fair guy.
I'm gonna stop talking about down air for a second.
I'm going to spend two days messing around with this Fox, and come Monday, I'll give my conclusion on the matter.

I could be argued to be inexperienced with alot of characters, but not Fox, who have been the center piece of my game since I got Brawl. I hope my conclusion will pull the proper weight to the final decision making of his down air.

 

[Yingyay]

F-smash kills lower then that my friend Also, what do you mean if it didnt get weaker? There are no stale moves so it's always fresh.

Also, along with the Fsmash cool down lag, kirby also has 1.1 faster falling if you want to count that as a change.

He does need two buffs though. One buff is a different angle after copy or less ending lag so that he doesnt get punished with a D-air for successfully doing a move. And the 2nd buff is perhaps the biggest. He needs his melee Hiiiiii back.

By weaker i meant slightly nerfed, but if it killed earlier for your friend then either you someone DI'ed the wrong way or the comp DI'ed my Fsmash O_o ( I was fighting DDD so it would explain how your friend got it to kill at a lower percentage due to his weight)
-I agree with the buff for his copy move, buy im not sure if they can chage that or not. If so then yes.
-lol at the second buff

 

[storm92]

By weaker i meant slightly nerfed, but if it killed earlier for your friend then either you someone DI'ed the wrong way or the comp DI'ed my Fsmash O_o ( I was fighting DDD so it would explain how your friend got it to kill at a lower percentage due to his weight)
-I agree with the buff for his copy move, buy im not sure if they can chage that or not. If so then yes.
-lol at the second buff

The first buff is possible, I would think.
I'll bring it up with the BR people.

 

[CloneHat]

So is the second. Kirby says HAAII! when you select him with the wiimote.

 

[Yingyay]

The first buff is possible, I would think.

Hopefully, cuz i hate having unfair advantages lol.
Plus thinking about it, it might be possible, cuz falco's reflector got changed and its a B move.
I remember hearing sometime ago that it was hard to change B moves or something, i might have misheard tho.

 

[storm92]

Hopefully, cuz i hate having unfair advantages lol.
Plus thinking about it, it might be possible, cuz falco's reflector got changed and its a B move.
I remember hearing sometime ago that it was hard to change B moves or something, i might have misheard tho.

Yeah, I'm fairly certain that was with projectile properties but I may be wrong.
It shouldn't be too hard to speed up the animation so neither Kirby or the copied char is in an advantaged or disadvantaged position.

 

[Yingyay]

If thats the case, i hope that something can be done with Sheik and Zelda's transformation, so that they can have one set transformation time.

 

[cAm8ooo]

By weaker i meant slightly nerfed, but if it killed earlier for your friend then either you someone DI'ed the wrong way or the comp DI'ed my Fsmash O_o ( I was fighting DDD so it would explain how your friend got it to kill at a lower percentage due to his weight)
-I agree with the buff for his copy move, buy im not sure if they can chage that or not. If so then yes.
-lol at the second buff

I wasnt talkin about for my friend. I called you my friend lol

Also, with no DI kirby kills DDD at 78% from the edge. Of course DI is gonna greatly reduce that but it still kills better then you would think, with perfect DI i believe it would still probably kill a little lower then 120 on heavies if your at the edge. It destroys light characters, in fact it has exceptionally good KB for its speed and is quite possibly the best Fsmash in the game.

 

[Sukai]

Increase cool down and change the base knockback to 0.
Would that work?

 

[Plum]

I havent sen too much sheild-camping but i can also see where you're coming from. But there were some moves that wrecked shields in 4/7 ver. Like fox's lasers (lol fox gets brought up more than the sun) although you could just roll away from it, it locked you in sheild too well. There might've been other moves that did the same. So i guess they're trying to find a good sheild-stun rate. This one being to grab-spam friendly while the other being a little to much.

I think Lucas could lock you in a shield too.

I know the 4/7 version is far from perfect but I like it more than the last test build.

I'm looking forward to test the new shieldstun value. Really we just need that happy medium.

 

[storm92]

Increase cool down and change the base knockback to 0.
Would that work?

Kirby already has increased cooldown on Fsmash, actually.

 

[shanus]

Yeah im working on a new value now Plum. Love the constructive feedback guys, keep it up. I'll try and bring a new set for public testing maybe by the end of today or tomorrow!