• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

SWF member voted tier list

Bowser King

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,737
Location
Ontario, Canada
Amazing Ampharos said:
Ness is underrated even by Ness mains. I don't think it's plausible for someone with Ness's set of aerials to be below the midpoint of the cast really.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Awesome aerials don't make a char jump from low tier to top of mid tier/bottom of high.

There are a bunch of chars with unmatched abilities in certain things.

Eg.

Bowser has an amazing defensive game that can quickly turn offensive and the best grab release game out there (don't flame me for using bowser, I just know a lot about him so I used him as an example =/)

Also, ness has a lot of weaknesses too. You should weigh those in to effect before choosing a placing for him.

-:bowser:Bowser King
 
Amazing Ampharos

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Ness's only real weakness is his bad ground break. Most people say his recovery because Pk Thunder can be gimped (albeit far less easily than some people seem to think), but his double jump + fair is better than Bowser's triple jump all around so...

Ness is fast and powerful with good range (other characters with this description include Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, and Meta Knight, for reference). Ness gets better stuff out of a grab than most of the rest of the cast (only guys like King Dedede get more out of landing a grab), and Ness has an amazing running grab that makes him good at landing them. I'm really not clear what these big weaknesses are. The biggest weakness I see in practice he has is "Pk Fire is a really bad move that for some reason tempts people into using it a lot", but judging Ness like that is like judging Bowser based on players who fsmash a lot.

I know it's controversial to say that Ness is good; for some reason people really hate him (saying random low tiers are good doesn't rile people the same way as when it's Ness). Some people even lump him in with Lucas which is really like saying Falco is on the same level as Fox... I know no one really uses Ness, but I'm not sure what about him makes people intuitively think "awful!". I just look at all the really high value stuff he has. He's obviously not a top tier character, but my experiences suggest he's a lot more dangerous than the actual low tiers.
 
Man of Popsicle

Man of Popsicle

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
1,287
Location
Redlands, CA
Amazing Ampharos said:
Ness is underrated even by Ness mains. I don't think it's plausible for someone with Ness's set of aerials to be below the midpoint of the cast really.
Click to expand...
Yes.
bowser king said:
I disagree.

Awesome aerials don't make a char jump from low tier to top of mid tier/bottom of high.
Click to expand...
Seeing as most matches have more time spent in the air then on the ground, and you can use aerials against grounded opponents, really makes your argument void. Plus they don't get outprioritized, they clank or they win."Metaknight has good specials so that doesn't make him stand out at all."
Amazing Ampharos said:
Ness's only real weakness is his bad ground break. Most people say his recovery because Pk Thunder can be gimped (albeit far less easily than some people seem to think), but his double jump + fair is better than Bowser's triple jump all around so...
I know it's controversial to say that Ness is good; for some reason people really hate him (saying random low tiers are good doesn't rile people the same way as when it's Ness). Some people even lump him in with Lucas which is really like saying Falco is on the same level as Fox... I know no one really uses Ness, but I'm not sure what about him makes people intuitively think "awful!". I just look at all the really high value stuff he has. He's obviously not a top tier character, but my experiences suggest he's a lot more dangerous than the actual low tiers.
Click to expand...
Quoted for truth, especially bold.
I think ness is at least mid tier, not F.

Ness +1
Pokemon Trainer +1
Jiggs +1

 
vbdood1337

vbdood1337

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
165
Location
SoCal
I completely agree with A.A. he definitely doesn't deserve the placing he is at right now (in the SBR list). AA pretty much summed up everything pretty well

EDIT: and Man of Popsicle
 
deepseadiva

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
Peach +1
Zelda +1

Shelda/Zeik -1

Sheik/Zelda is not just below Lucario.
 
Bowser King

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,737
Location
Ontario, Canada
Amazing Ampharos said:
Ness's only real weakness is his bad ground break. Most people say his recovery because Pk Thunder can be gimped (albeit far less easily than some people seem to think), but his double jump + fair is better than Bowser's triple jump all around so...
Click to expand...

Seriously? I never knew that D:

I could be wrong but horizontally bowser does a lot better then ness.

Vertically I don't see his double jump fair being better then both of bowsers jumps and fortress but I could be wrong.

Ness is fast and powerful with good range (other characters with this description include Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, and Meta Knight, for reference).
Click to expand...

yes, but those chars have a lot of other things going for them and they beat ness in both categories. Just thought I'd point that out.

Ness gets better stuff out of a grab than most of the rest of the cast (only guys like King Dedede get more out of landing a grab)
Click to expand...
Sure, his grabs are great but ness also suffers a huge amount from grabs.



I'm really not clear what these big weaknesses are. The biggest weakness I see in practice he has is "Pk Fire is a really bad move that for some reason tempts people into using it a lot", but judging Ness like that is like judging Bowser based on players who fsmash a lot.
Click to expand...

I never judged him like that =/

His recovery isn't good. He may have a good second jump but there will be moments when you might need to use pk thunder (one jump isn't always going to be enough) and when that time comes ness can get screwed pretty bad.

He gets owned by a lot of people when the grab him.

He's lighter then pit who is also pretty light and has fairly bad matchups against almost all the high tier/top tiers (most ranking 60-40)

Other then that he doesn't have many weaknesses but he doesn't have anything amazing going for him either (there are a lot of chars that could beat him in the air)
I know it's controversial to say that Ness is good; for some reason people really hate him (saying random low tiers are good doesn't rile people the same way as when it's Ness).
Click to expand...

What?

Has there ever been a huge fight about ness being hated or something?
If people don't agree with ness being on the brink of high tier (he was ranking with the likes of peach on the last list) or that ness is good enough to rank higher up in mid tier that automatically means they hate him? Biased opinions I can see you hating, just look at us bowser players, we get it all the time. Though saying you think people don't rank him higher because they don't like him isn't very valid.

If you want to see low tiers who get a lot of hate then look at almost every low tier other then mario. Almost every low tier char thinks that there char is good enough to be in mid tier. Just like ness most of them are valid candidates for mid tier with there strengths (yohsi, Sonic) but they also have there weaknesses or just get outshined.

Some people even lump him in with Lucas which is really like saying Falco is on the same level as Fox...
Click to expand...

Some people being the minority right? Most people know that ness is higher then lucas.

I know no one really uses Ness, but I'm not sure what about him makes people intuitively think "awful!"
Click to expand...
.

Read two paragraphs up. Most people know ness is good. Even I know that he makes a great char but he wasn't deserving of the ranking he originally had at the time of the discussion.

I just look at all the really high value stuff he has. He's obviously not a top tier character, but my experiences suggest he's a lot more dangerous than the actual low tiers.
Click to expand...

You could argue that sonic and yoshi (even mario) both have things going for them that would make them valid for mid tier.

Also, I wasn't arguing because ness was in mid tier, I was arguing that he was to high in mid tier (he was ranking with peach and wolf which will IMO very likely never happen).

Man of Popsicle said:
Seeing as most matches have more time spent in the air then on the ground
Click to expand...
Depends on the character. Bowser will stay on the ground most of the time along with a lot of other chars. In the air ness isn't extremely amazing. He's really good and beats a lot of chars but there are a lot of chars who (most of them being the chars that "spend most of there time in the air") beat him.

, and you can use aerials against grounded opponents,
Click to expand...
...and you can use ground moves when a character is coming from the air :)

Plus they don't get outprioritized, they clank or they win."Metaknight has good specials so that doesn't make him stand out at all."
Click to expand...

I never said they didn't =/



vbdood1337 said:
I completely agree with A.A. he definitely doesn't deserve the placing he is at right now (in the SBR list). AA pretty much summed up everything pretty well

EDIT: and Man of Popsicle
Click to expand...
Again, I was just saying that he wasn't deserving of the placing he had at the time nothing else =/

-:bowser:Bowser King
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom