Super Smash Bros. Infinite Beyond

[GolisoPower]

I'd argue there are some third-party echos that could work, but you'd need to dig very deep for them.

Like, Siegfried could work as a Nightmare Echo because the lore for Soulcalibur states that he is Nightmare, and he even has some similar moves too. In retrospect it's kind of a good fit.

 

[cashregister9]

I think Zack Fair and Roxas are probably the easiest echoes we could do at this point.

 

[Justoneguyhere1999]

How about Shadow as a Sonic Echo? Maybe it wouldn't represent him perfectly but he's an well-requested character and people had speculated him to be a echo fighter for smash before being decomfirmed.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I mean, you elected who have two echo fighters and voiced support for one being third party. If you want another first party echo through, o don’t mind. It just means we get one third party submission job

 

[darkvortex]

Possible options
Remiu - some touhou girl. I Don't know the series at all but Marisa Kirisame seems to an a popular choice. don't know if there would be much push for this since Remiu seems to be one of our less talked about newcomers but it's an idea

Phoenix - Apollo Justice \ Miles Edgeworth. Apollo was a fairly common echo idea during the last thread and I like it. He has the remakes coming out soon too. Edgeworth is another idea

Crash - Coco - Honestly the models aren't 1 to 1 but I think it.could work. She's a pretty big side kick character.

Cloud - Zack - FF7 does kind of have enough content as is but he's a popular echo request with a new game coming out

Sakura - Gemini Sunrise \ Sakura Amamiya - Might be a bit nechie for an echo but I think it could b

2B - A2? Maybe?A

Sonic - Metal Sonic \ Classic Sonic - I'd say Shadow but he's out of the running. Sonic feels like a good fit for for an echo even if it already has a second rep

Snake - Big Boss \ Naked Snake \ Liquid Snake - The other big pick for an echo, plus MGS doesn't have a second rep yet

Sora - Roxas \ Sora \ Ventus \ Xion \ Riku - Sora has so much echo potential it's insane

We could also go back to a character that has an echo already and do someone like Chris Redfield, Sakura \ Akuma, Proto Man, Trevor Belmeont, etc

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Alright I kind of forget Phoenix, Cloud, Snake and 2B tho lol. Thought I argue the same I said about Joker with Zack, I would prefer priorize get a character from another damn game. Apollo only problem is that afaik he is shorter that Phoenix? And I ain't 100% sure about Miles since while I ain't like a great AA player I knowthat he was a lawyer but his main profession is prosecutor and I ain't sure if with that context his moveset would be the same. A2 and either Snake are fine deal tho.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Possible options
Remiu - some touhou girl. I Don't know the series at all but Marisa Kirisame seems to an a popular choice. don't know if there would be much push for this since Remiu seems to be one of our less talked about newcomers but it's an idea

Phoenix - Apollo Justice \ Miles Edgeworth. Apollo was a fairly common echo idea during the last thread and I like it. He has the remakes coming out soon too. Edgeworth is another idea

Crash - Coco - Honestly the models aren't 1 to 1 but I think it.could work. She's a pretty big side kick character.

Cloud - Zack - FF7 does kind of have enough content as is but he's a popular echo request with a new game coming out

Sakura - Gemini Sunrise \ Sakura Amamiya - Might be a bit nechie for an echo but I think it could b

2B - A2? Maybe?A

Sonic - Metal Sonic \ Classic Sonic - I'd say Shadow but he's out of the running. Sonic feels like a good fit for for an echo even if it already has a second rep

Snake - Big Boss \ Naked Snake \ Liquid Snake - The other big pick for an echo, plus MGS doesn't have a second rep yet

Sora - Roxas \ Sora \ Ventus \ Xion \ Riku - Sora has so much echo potential it's insane

We could also go back to a character that has an echo already and do someone like Chris Redfield, Sakura \ Akuma, Proto Man, Trevor Belmeont, etc

How is Shadow out of the running?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I suppose is because he is/was an Assist Trophy?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I suppose is because he is/was an Assist Trophy?

So was Saki. Once we publish the game, then content is locked in. Anything is really fair game in that department.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

So was Saki. Once we publish the game, then content is locked in. Anything is really fair game in that department.

I guess most people understanded that it was the only AT that would be unlocked since there it was a job specifically for that.

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

How is Shadow out of the running?

I feel like whilst Shadow could be used in a Smash game, I think he has enough difference from Sonic to merit him as a seperate fighter entirely

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I guess most people understanded that it was the only AT that would be unlocked since there it was a job specifically for that.

Nope. It was regarding also first party as well if I’m not mistaken. The third party one won’t be restricted by assist/Mii costume. If you want to submit Shadow as an echo, that will be fine. If you want us to use our last unique third party character for Shadow, that’s fine

 

[Justoneguyhere1999]

I feel like whilst Shadow could be used in a Smash game, I think he has enough difference from Sonic to merit him as a seperate fighter entirely

True. But I don't think SEGA agrees with that. Least when it comes to the games.

Even in his debut game, his gameplay was similar to Sonic's along with the narrative that people mistake him as Sonic somehow. So I think it technically works as a echo?

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Personally, I'd go with Blaze as a Sonic echo. She sort of fills the role both conceptually and thematically, is a character that wouldn't lose out on as much unique moveset potential as picks like Metal Sonic or Shadow, and would also be able to represent a pretty neat period of Sonic's history without just being another Sonic (literally). Plus, if you wanted to add more deliberate differences, there's absolutely potential there, but she doesn't feel like too much of a waste if you just pull a Lucina and give her attacks fire effects instead or something of the sort.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I will be busy for the rest of Saturday due to prior obligations so I want to get started on our submission process a tad bit early.

Please submit a Third Party Echo Fighter​

This character will be the first third-party fighter to appear on our roster so keep this in mind when submitting. It will lie between Louie and our last first-party unique fighter. When submitting, please provide the following information:

• Name
• Series
• Echo of Which Third Party Character
• This character should be included in our roster. Remember they are joining a smaller roster so it is important for us to not only have someone who is recognizable but also one who would help sell the game. The roster is a huge part of it.

As mentioned previously, characters who are within Smash as an asset like an assist or mii costume are still eligible as they are not yet locked in. In addition, characters who currently have an echo are also allowed but the character needs to be very different from the first echo fighter. For example, let's say we had added in another Belmont, that Belmont needs to be different (within the confines of Echo Fighters) than Richter. So would need to be a Ken-type Echo for Simon. Likewise, if we were to submit an echo for Ryu, then that echo fighter needs to be a more Richter-ized version of Ryu as Ken plays fairly differently from Ryu. That being said, this isn't something I will be strong-armed enforcing. If you can create an Echo for a veteran who already has an Echo and make that Echo uniquely different from both the base fighter and the first echo, that is fine in my book. I just want to avoid two copies of the same fighter if you know what I mean.

Here are our eligible fighters

1. Snake
2. Sonic
3. Mega Man (Roll)
4. Pac-Man (Ms. Pac-Man)
5. Ryu (Ken)
6. Cloud
7. Bayonetta (Jeane)
8. Simon (Richter)
9. Joker
10. Hero
11. Banjo & Kazooie
12. Terry (Rock)
13. Steve
14. Sephiroth
15. Kazuya (Jin)
16. Sora
17. Crash
18. Jill (Leon)
19. Reimu
20. Dr. Eggman
21. Crazy Dave
22. Iori
23. Zagreus
24. Phoenix Wright
25. Sakura
26. Agumon
27. Sol Badguy
28. Lara Croft
29. Lloyd Irving
30. Ratchet & Clank (Rivet is still considered a palette swap but we could change that)
31. Red
32. Ahri
33. Nightmare
34. Doomslayer
35. 2B

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Phoenix - Apollo Justice \ Miles Edgeworth. Apollo was a fairly common echo idea during the last thread and I like it. He has the remakes coming out soon too. Edgeworth is another idea

Crash - Coco - Honestly the models aren't 1 to 1 but I think it.could work. She's a pretty big side kick character.

Sakura - Gemini Sunrise \ Sakura Amamiya - Might be a bit nechie for an echo but I think it could b

Sora - Roxas \ Sora \ Ventus \ Xion \ Riku - Sora has so much echo potential it's insane

We could also go back to a character that has an echo already and do someone like Chris Redfield, Sakura \ Akuma, Proto Man, Trevor Belmeont, etc

Only talking about ones I have something to say about.

Coco cannot be an echo for Crash. She's shorter than he is. Semi-clone, you could do, but she is literally unable to be an echo because echos require the same skeleton as the base fighter.

Gemini can't be an echo for Sakura for basically the same reason; she wouldn't share the same skeleton, and her fighting style does not match Sakura's; Sakura fights more elegantly, with precise, intentional strikes; Gemini fights with a vigilante style when using her sword, with more brute-force style attacks than free-flowing combo strikes. The two of them are nothing alike in the way they fight.

Riku can't be an echo for Sora for the same reason Gemini can't be a Sakura echo - that's not how he fights. His keyblade, Way to the Dawn, is more like a shortsword, he wields it in a completely different grip and uses different attack animations, and while he can use some of the same techniques Sora uses, he can't use the same specials other than maybe magic and Counterattack, as he literally never learns Sonic Blade, Aerial Sweep, or any of the techniques Sora actually uses in his Smash moveset. Roxas theoretically would work better but he prefers fighting with two blades, though he matches Sora's stance and stats better, and can us the techniques Sora can.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Echo Name: Blaze
Echo of?: Sonic
Echo Origin: Sonic Rush (2005)

I think, as do many others, that the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise does honestly warrant an Echo of some form. That said, trying to determine who to go with is a little difficult. Personally, I feel that characters like Shadow or Metal Sonic have more than enough potential as wholly unique fighters to the point where being an Echo would kind of be a disservice to their potential... but Blaze actually fills this role pretty well.

First up, Blaze's gameplay in the Sonic series is deliberately intended to mirror Sonic's with some minor changes - she was introduced as effectively an alternate-universe counterpart to him in the first place, after all. This means her fast-paced gameplay actually makes some sense to keep around! Plus, on top of this, she shares a lot of his abilities albeit with her own unique take on them - meaning there's potential to differentiate the two beyond just minor changes.

But, what would I suggest? Well, the following springs to mind:

• Unique animations for some of her attacks, some of which might get unique uses because of this. I'm mainly thinking in terms of things like her running animation, but bear in mind that she doesn't actually curl up into a spin attack, so that'd also give her a unique look. For instance, her down special could work the same as Sonic's mechanically, but she'd use her Burst Dash instead of a Spin Attack. She'd also get fresh idle animations, taunts, and victory screens.
• Fire properties on many of her attacks, reflecting her pyrokinetic abilities, would be an obvious choice to go with. Hell, even some flaming particle effects on other stuff like her running animations would be a good call too, even if they wouldn't serve a function.
• A new side special in which Blaze can use a Boost move. I don't think this needs a meter, but it'd give her a unique playstyle that rewards more constant movement as opposed to just camping out on the other side of the stage for whatever reason. Think of it being a little more like Wonderwing in use, but you can maintain a sprint after using it.
• A couple of new normals, including a neutral air based on the Humming Top, or maybe a down smash based on her Spinning Claw attack in '06. Maybe you could also give her a hover using Burst Hover or replace her up special with it? It wouldn't be absolutely necessary, though.

Considering the differences between characters like Ryu and Ken or Terry and Rock, and keeping in mind Beyond's limited number of newcomers, I think these would be reasonable changes that wouldn't take too much development time or anything of the like even if we were to include all of them! (Which I recognise is unlikely, but hey.)

Even so, unlike more popular characters from the franchise like Metal Sonic or Shadow, she doesn't need all of these changes to work, and she'd be fun either way with just a couple of minor changes. If you were just purely to make her a little slower and give her attacks fire properties, she'd still work as a unique fighter with plenty of potential. However, a little extra effort would go a long way!

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

3rd Party Echo Fighter: Marisa Kirisame (Touhou)
Is Echo Fighter of: Reimu

Marisa Kirisame is the deutragonist from Touhou series, she is a magician and Reimu's best friend.

Differences from Reimu and Marisa:

-Marisa have different taunts,victory animations and idle animations
-Marisa is lighter than Reimu
-Marisa's attacks are stronger than Reimu
-Marisa have a diffetent Up Special,she flies using her broom
-Marisa have a different Final Smash

 

[Justoneguyhere1999]

Echo Name: Shadow the Hedgehog
Echo of?: Sonic
Echo Origin: Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)

Shadow is a popular character from the Sonic series who had been an antagonist to an anti-hero of the franchise and an well-known rival to Sonic himself. Soon would be appearing in a film as well for the mainstream audience. It is true that Shadow has his own unique traits that make him stand out. But rather we like it or not, Shadow has been played identically to Sonic in terms of gameplay from SA2 to Heroes to Forces. And when he first appeared in his debut game, many mistook him as Sonic...for some reason.

I personally believe he can work as a echo fighter AND as his own fighter at once. But since we only have two slots for third-parties and there is probaby someome more fitting better for the last third-party slot. This is maybe the only chance Shadow can appear as a Smash Fighter.

How he could work differently from Sonic:
-His Side Special can be a chaos spear of sorts and his down special would be using Chaos Control.
-His kicking attacks are identical to Sonic's but has a more fire into it since he has jet boots.
-Having unique animations such as his running animation would be to skating across the stage and jumping with said jet boots rather then a spring.
-His final smash can have him turn Super just like Sonic but in the end, he'll unleash an Chaos Blast that sends many foes flying at once.
-Having unique idle animations, taunts, and victory screens

Least these are the differences that could be added that could make him a little stand out from the blue blur. Either way, he is an well-requested character for Smash time to time and be a awesome Sonic rep that many would love even as a Sonic clone.

 

[GolisoPower]

FIGHTER #114ε

SIEGFRIED SCHTAUFFEN​

Siegfried Schtauffen is one of the most central characters in the entirety of the SoulCalibur franchise, being the host for Soul Edge and becoming the infamous Nightmare. In Smash, Siegfried would retain a large majority of the moves that Nightmare possesses, but with the following differences:

• Siegfried will not have Dire Vengeance as a mechanic.​
• Siegfried possesses weaker moves in comparison to Nightmare, tweaked to be more defensive than offensive.​
• There's a greater focus on his stances, the follow-ups of which are more powerful.​
• Some animations are tweaked to better-suit Siegfried.​

 

[cashregister9]

Roxas (Sora)

KH2 and 358/2 Spoilers ahead!

Roxas is Sora's Nobody, Due to being a literal clone of Sora, Roxas uses many of sora's moves. but Roxas also has a few unique moves that can be used.
-Same as Sora in pretty much all ways
-The Magic has different properties
-Firaga - Slower, but explodes on impact
-Tundaga - 1 Big Lightning Bolt that deals extra damage.
-Blizzaga - One big projectile instead of the stream
-Different Final Smash

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

One more thing to keep in mind that there won’t be any cross series echoes. The echo needs to be from the series of its base fighter.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Roxas/Xion (Sora)

KH2 and 358/2 Spoilers ahead!

Roxas is Sora's Nobody, Due to being a literal clone of Sora, Roxas uses many of sora's moves. but Roxas also has a few unique moves that can be used. Xion is another clone of sora but modeled after Kairi, Xion much like Roxas shares moves with Sora. This would be a \Robin/Corrin/Byleth situation with the alts.
-Same as Sora in pretty much all ways
-The Magic has different properties
-Firaga - Slower, but explodes on impact
-Tundaga - 1 Big Lightning Bolt that deals extra damage.
-Blizzaga - One big projectile instead of the stream
-Different Final Smash depending on alt

Also, for fairness, choose one or the other Roxas or Xion.

 

[nirvanafan]

A2 (Echo of 2B from Nier Automata)

I think it would be cool to give one of our latest (in this case the latest) 3rd party fighters an echo although maybe thats just an excuse for my bias for more Nier Automata content. Without diving into spoilers 2B & A2 are very closely connected & could share a moveset, Went with the short haired variant of A2 since she would probably be easier to work off (using 2B as a base) as opposed to her long hair. Imagine besides the obvious (voice lines, animations, etc.) A2 would be slower yet more powerful than 2B. I feel like her Berserker Mode mechanic should also be implemented. Probably too much for an echo to have a major gameplay gimmick so perhaps this could be a new final smash similar to something like pre-Ultimate Wario or Bayonetta,

Spoiler: POD Spoilers

One other issue could be that both A2 & 2B use Pod 042 who is a very important part of 2B's moveset. My solution is to have both use Pod 042 by default but allow 2B to also be able to switch to POD 153 on the fighter select screen to allow players the ability to have a more realistic 2B, A2 matchup (not sure thats the best way to put it but hopefully you get my point). If thats too much I suppose giving A2 a generic, un-named, maybe silent POD could be another solution.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Also, for fairness, choose one or the other Roxas or Xion.

If Roxas gets voted in, could we at least vote afterwards to have Xion as an Alph/Robin/Corrin/etc. costume? I'm not sure why this limitation is necessary when it makes perfect sense to have her as an alt canonically (and this was submitted and accepted in the original thread without that limitation)?

 

[GolisoPower]

UPDATE ON BOX-ART: Saki, Gholdengo and Louie are finished!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

If Roxas gets voted in, could we at least vote afterwards to have Xion as an Alph/Robin/Corrin/etc. costume? I'm not sure why this limitation is necessary when it makes perfect sense to have her as an alt canonically (and this was submitted and accepted in the original thread without that limitation)?

How the submission sounded was either one or the other. We need to have a solid choice rather am ablivieny choice. Also, to avoid having to vote to see which one will be represented. I don’t mind doing the alternate costume route. It sounded awfully like “I’m submitting both Roxas and Xion as candidates to be voted for.” Like two candidates in one submission

 

[Mushroomguy12]

How the submission sounded was either one or the other. We need to have a solid choice rather am ablivieny choice. Also, to avoid having to vote to see which one will be represented. I don’t mind doing the alternate costume route. It sounded awfully like “I’m submitting both Roxas and Xion as candidates to be voted for.” Like two candidates in one submission

The original submission (which is archived by the quote), stated that "This would be a \Robin/Corrin/Byleth situation with the alts.", so I believe they were just submitting them as alternate costumes to each other rather than two separate characters.

 

[darkvortex]

Big Boss
Metal Gear Solid has been in smash since Brawl and is now the oldest third party series in the game not to have some form of second rep. The precursor to Soild Snake. He would be based on Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, which has a remake coming out soon, he was actually called Naked Snake when he looked like this, but the Big Boss name will set him apart from the Snake who's already in the game. He's been both a protagonist and antagonist and is just a big part, if not a bigger part, or the series than Soild Snake at this point. His legacy is felt all throughout the series.

He'd be the same as Snake but with different properties and one or two new moves. He'd have alts based on his old man appearance from Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, his appearance in Peace Walker, and Venom Snake from Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.

This would also fit with the influx of Konami content we've added to Beyond.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The original submission (which is archived by the quote), stated that "This would be a \Robin/Corrin/Byleth situation with the alts.", so I believe they were just submitting them as alternate costumes to each other rather than two separate characters.

Gotcha. I only read a bit of it but it seemed like it was an "either/or" situation. It would be like someone submitting Louie but also putting Alph for a Pikmin character submission but treating them as two different candidates. We will put Roxas as the main rep in this case. I was periodically checking up on the thread as I was doing my therapy session today.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I will be submitting....

Kasumi (Persona 5 Royale)
Echo of Joker​

I have never actually fully played Persona until Persona 5 Royal so the game has a bit of a tender spot for me. Now, it brings into question about the Echo aspect in that Kasumi wields a rapier, not a knife in combat. She also wields a replica rifle rather than a handgun. For these reasons, Kasumi is a Jin-tier of Echo where, technically, she could be her own unique character. Many of her moves mirror that of Joker albeit with a wider reach in comparison. She has slightly less damage output than Joker though but her version of Gun packs a harder punch. Her Persona is Cendrillon and some of her moves could be transferred over to work similar to Joker's and Arsene's moves. All in all, Kasumi would greatly push the boundaries of what it means to be an Echo fighter due to unique properties and attributes that would be a departure from the rest. It would also be fun to explore what of Kasumi's and Cendrillon's moves we could take to map to Joker and Arsene.

Here is an example of how she could play as an Echo

 

[AlteredBeast]

Piglin (Minecraft)

Echo of Steve

As most are aware, Minecraft is a huge series and franchise. Thus, I feel it's one of the franchises in Smash Infinte Beyond to truly get a second rep. Often times, Minecraft is overlooked. Plus, we can't forget about the younger audience as well!

How Piglin can work as a Steve echo (Credit to u/Oryyyyx_with4ys)

Basically, he's faster, has no upgrade mechanic in weapons, has a golden mine cart, eats cooked Porkchop for his taunt, etc. However, one change I would make to this moveset from Reddit, I would make Piglin's Down Special him shooting his crossbow at opponents instead of the TNT. This is the only Special that's changed compared to Steve. Overall, a fun echo that's often overlooked.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Coco Bandicoot (Echo of Crash)

Coco Bandicoot is Crash Bandicoot's sister who has quickly become a P2 character in the series, sharing many of his moves in various Crash games like in the N. Sane Trilogy remake. Her model is similar enough to Crash that it could be easily adjusted to fit as an echo fighter, as many characters have been slightly (or non slightly) resized when added to Smash. She has quickly become one of the more popular platforming sidekicks and is commonly brought up as a 3rd Party echo choice within the community. Her role as the player 2 character in the series makes her the perfect choice for a Crash echo. As an echo, she would be a lighter and slightly faster version of Crash, with possibly a couple of altered moves.

 

[PeridotGX]

Echo Submission - Miles Edgeworth

Miles Edgeworth is a very important character in the Ace Attorney Series. He was an antagonistic figure in the first game, but mellowed out and became a more supportive character later on. He even had two spinoff games to his own! My idea for Edgeworth, and the reason I chose him over Apollo or Herlock, is that his different role could be made a part of his moveset. Unlike Phoenix, who is a defense attorney, Miles is a prosecutor. Based on that, I think Edgeworth would work as a more direct, rush down version of Phoenix's moveset. He would have generally stronger attacks but be quite a bit lighter.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Submissions will be closing in a little bit.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here is our list of third-party echo submissions! Thank you to everyone who submitted the content!

Echo Name: Blaze
Echo of?: Sonic
Echo Origin: Sonic Rush (2005)

I think, as do many others, that the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise does honestly warrant an Echo of some form. That said, trying to determine who to go with is a little difficult. Personally, I feel that characters like Shadow or Metal Sonic have more than enough potential as wholly unique fighters to the point where being an Echo would kind of be a disservice to their potential... but Blaze actually fills this role pretty well.

First up, Blaze's gameplay in the Sonic series is deliberately intended to mirror Sonic's with some minor changes - she was introduced as effectively an alternate-universe counterpart to him in the first place, after all. This means her fast-paced gameplay actually makes some sense to keep around! Plus, on top of this, she shares a lot of his abilities albeit with her own unique take on them - meaning there's potential to differentiate the two beyond just minor changes.

But, what would I suggest? Well, the following springs to mind:

• Unique animations for some of her attacks, some of which might get unique uses because of this. I'm mainly thinking in terms of things like her running animation, but bear in mind that she doesn't actually curl up into a spin attack, so that'd also give her a unique look. For instance, her down special could work the same as Sonic's mechanically, but she'd use her Burst Dash instead of a Spin Attack. She'd also get fresh idle animations, taunts, and victory screens.
• Fire properties on many of her attacks, reflecting her pyrokinetic abilities, would be an obvious choice to go with. Hell, even some flaming particle effects on other stuff like her running animations would be a good call too, even if they wouldn't serve a function.
• A new side special in which Blaze can use a Boost move. I don't think this needs a meter, but it'd give her a unique playstyle that rewards more constant movement as opposed to just camping out on the other side of the stage for whatever reason. Think of it being a little more like Wonderwing in use, but you can maintain a sprint after using it.
• A couple of new normals, including a neutral air based on the Humming Top, or maybe a down smash based on her Spinning Claw attack in '06. Maybe you could also give her a hover using Burst Hover or replace her up special with it? It wouldn't be absolutely necessary, though.

Considering the differences between characters like Ryu and Ken or Terry and Rock, and keeping in mind Beyond's limited number of newcomers, I think these would be reasonable changes that wouldn't take too much development time or anything of the like even if we were to include all of them! (Which I recognise is unlikely, but hey.)

Even so, unlike more popular characters from the franchise like Metal Sonic or Shadow, she doesn't need all of these changes to work, and she'd be fun either way with just a couple of minor changes. If you were just purely to make her a little slower and give her attacks fire properties, she'd still work as a unique fighter with plenty of potential. However, a little extra effort would go a long way!

3rd Party Echo Fighter: Marisa Kirisame (Touhou)
Is Echo Fighter of: Reimu

View attachment 378202

Marisa Kirisame is the deutragonist from Touhou series, she is a magician and Reimu's best friend.

Differences from Reimu and Marisa:

-Marisa have different taunts,victory animations and idle animations
-Marisa is lighter than Reimu
-Marisa's attacks are stronger than Reimu
-Marisa have a diffetent Up Special,she flies using her broom
-Marisa have a different Final Smash

Echo Name: Shadow the Hedgehog
Echo of?: Sonic
Echo Origin: Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)

Shadow is a popular character from the Sonic series who had been an antagonist to an anti-hero of the franchise and an well-known rival to Sonic himself. Soon would be appearing in a film as well for the mainstream audience. It is true that Shadow has his own unique traits that make him stand out. But rather we like it or not, Shadow has been played identically to Sonic in terms of gameplay from SA2 to Heroes to Forces. And when he first appeared in his debut game, many mistook him as Sonic...for some reason.

I personally believe he can work as a echo fighter AND as his own fighter at once. But since we only have two slots for third-parties and there is probaby someome more fitting better for the last third-party slot. This is maybe the only chance Shadow can appear as a Smash Fighter.

How he could work differently from Sonic:
-His Side Special can be a chaos spear of sorts and his down special would be using Chaos Control.
-His kicking attacks are identical to Sonic's but has a more fire into it since he has jet boots.
-Having unique animations such as his running animation would be to skating across the stage and jumping with said jet boots rather then a spring.
-His final smash can have him turn Super just like Sonic but in the end, he'll unleash an Chaos Blast that sends many foes flying at once.
-Having unique idle animations, taunts, and victory screens

Least these are the differences that could be added that could make him a little stand out from the blue blur. Either way, he is an well-requested character for Smash time to time and be a awesome Sonic rep that many would love even as a Sonic clone.

FIGHTER #114ε
View attachment 378211
SIEGFRIED SCHTAUFFEN​

Siegfried Schtauffen is one of the most central characters in the entirety of the SoulCalibur franchise, being the host for Soul Edge and becoming the infamous Nightmare. In Smash, Siegfried would retain a large majority of the moves that Nightmare possesses, but with the following differences:

• Siegfried will not have Dire Vengeance as a mechanic.​
• Siegfried possesses weaker moves in comparison to Nightmare, tweaked to be more defensive than offensive.​
• There's a greater focus on his stances, the follow-ups of which are more powerful.​
• Some animations are tweaked to better-suit Siegfried.​

Roxas (Sora)

KH2 and 358/2 Spoilers ahead!

Roxas is Sora's Nobody, Due to being a literal clone of Sora, Roxas uses many of sora's moves. but Roxas also has a few unique moves that can be used.
-Same as Sora in pretty much all ways
-The Magic has different properties
-Firaga - Slower, but explodes on impact
-Tundaga - 1 Big Lightning Bolt that deals extra damage.
-Blizzaga - One big projectile instead of the stream
-Different Final Smash

A2 (Echo of 2B from Nier Automata)

I think it would be cool to give one of our latest (in this case the latest) 3rd party fighters an echo although maybe thats just an excuse for my bias for more Nier Automata content. Without diving into spoilers 2B & A2 are very closely connected & could share a moveset, Went with the short haired variant of A2 since she would probably be easier to work off (using 2B as a base) as opposed to her long hair. Imagine besides the obvious (voice lines, animations, etc.) A2 would be slower yet more powerful than 2B. I feel like her Berserker Mode mechanic should also be implemented. Probably too much for an echo to have a major gameplay gimmick so perhaps this could be a new final smash similar to something like pre-Ultimate Wario or Bayonetta,

Spoiler: POD Spoilers

One other issue could be that both A2 & 2B use Pod 042 who is a very important part of 2B's moveset. My solution is to have both use Pod 042 by default but allow 2B to also be able to switch to POD 153 on the fighter select screen to allow players the ability to have a more realistic 2B, A2 matchup (not sure thats the best way to put it but hopefully you get my point). If thats too much I suppose giving A2 a generic, un-named, maybe silent POD could be another solution.

View attachment 378224
Big Boss
Metal Gear Solid has been in smash since Brawl and is now the oldest third party series in the game not to have some form of second rep. The precursor to Soild Snake. He would be based on Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, which has a remake coming out soon, he was actually called Naked Snake when he looked like this, but the Big Boss name will set him apart from the Snake who's already in the game. He's been both a protagonist and antagonist and is just a big part, if not a bigger part, or the series than Soild Snake at this point. His legacy is felt all throughout the series.

He'd be the same as Snake but with different properties and one or two new moves. He'd have alts based on his old man appearance from Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, his appearance in Peace Walker, and Venom Snake from Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.

This would also fit with the influx of Konami content we've added to Beyond.

I will be submitting....

Kasumi (Persona 5 Royale)
Echo of Joker​

I have never actually fully played Persona until Persona 5 Royal so the game has a bit of a tender spot for me. Now, it brings into question about the Echo aspect in that Kasumi wields a rapier, not a knife in combat. She also wields a replica rifle rather than a handgun. For these reasons, Kasumi is a Jin-tier of Echo where, technically, she could be her own unique character. Many of her moves mirror that of Joker albeit with a wider reach in comparison. She has slightly less damage output than Joker though but her version of Gun packs a harder punch. Her Persona is Cendrillon and some of her moves could be transferred over to work similar to Joker's and Arsene's moves. All in all, Kasumi would greatly push the boundaries of what it means to be an Echo fighter due to unique properties and attributes that would be a departure from the rest. It would also be fun to explore what of Kasumi's and Cendrillon's moves we could take to map to Joker and Arsene.

Here is an example of how she could play as an Echo

Piglin (Minecraft)

Echo of Steve

View attachment 378230

As most are aware, Minecraft is a huge series and franchise. Thus, I feel it's one of the franchises in Smash Infinte Beyond to truly get a second rep. Often times, Minecraft is overlooked. Plus, we can't forget about the younger audience as well!

How Piglin can work as a Steve echo (Credit to u/Oryyyyx_with4ys)

Basically, he's faster, has no upgrade mechanic in weapons, has a golden mine cart, eats cooked Porkchop for his taunt, etc. However, one change I would make to this moveset from Reddit, I would make Piglin's Down Special him shooting his crossbow at opponents instead of the TNT. This is the only Special that's changed compared to Steve. Overall, a fun echo that's often overlooked.

Coco Bandicoot (Echo of Crash)

Coco Bandicoot is Crash Bandicoot's sister who has quickly become a P2 character in the series, sharing many of his moves in various Crash games like in the N. Sane Trilogy remake. Her model is similar enough to Crash that it could be easily adjusted to fit as an echo fighter, as many characters have been slightly (or non slightly) resized when added to Smash. She has quickly become one of the more popular platforming sidekicks and is commonly brought up as a 3rd Party echo choice within the community. Her role as the player 2 character in the series makes her the perfect choice for a Crash echo. As an echo, she would be a lighter and slightly faster version of Crash, with possibly a couple of altered moves.

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Echo Submission - Miles Edgeworth
View attachment 378254
Miles Edgeworth is a very important character in the Ace Attorney Series. He was an antagonistic figure in the first game, but mellowed out and became a more supportive character later on. He even had two spinoff games to his own! My idea for Edgeworth, and the reason I chose him over Apollo or Herlock, is that his different role could be made a part of his moveset. Unlike Phoenix, who is a defense attorney, Miles is a prosecutor. Based on that, I think Edgeworth would work as a more direct, rush down version of Phoenix's moveset. He would have generally stronger attacks but be quite a bit lighter.

In list form:

• Blaze the Cat (Sonic Echo) (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Marisa Kirisame (Reimu Echo) (Touhou Project)
• Shadow (Sonic Echo) (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Siegfried Schtauffen (Nightmare Echo) (SoulCalibur)
• Roxas (Sora Echo) (Kingdom Hearts)
• A2 (2B Echo) (NieR Automata)
• Big Boss (Snake Echo) (Metal Gear)
• Violet/Kasumi (Joker Echo) (Persona)
• Piglin (Steve Echo) (Minecraft)
• Coco (Crash Echo) (Crash Bandicoot)
• Miles Edgeworth (Phoenix Echo) (Ace Attorney)

Please go here to vote

 

[darkvortex]

it's been a while since I've got to do one of these where I've had enough to say about all the picks so

• Blaze - A pretty cool pick i'd never have thought of but I really like the pitch. I do think I have a slight preference for Shadow but I defenetly think she'd be fun. Both her and Shadow do have the issue that they'd be our third Sonic character but I don't think that's all that big an issue if one if them is an echo
• Marisa - I know nothing about the funni magic girl games so I have nothing to actually say on her as a character or if she'd work but the series seems pretty popular and I do think it's be cool to give one of our newcomers an echo. I'm just personally not that interested and don't think it needs a second rep.
• Shadow - Shadow feels like the big popularity pick here. When echos where announced for ultimate he was a lot of people's pick. He's literally Sonic's echo. Now, I totally get that Shadow does have a lot of his own ability, it's be easy to make him his own character. But considering I think most people will want a new franchise for our last third party spot I think this is a good role. It wouldn't be hard to still give him some of those moves while being an echo. he does have the issue of being our third Sonic rep but it's not a huge deal
• Siegfried - Now this is a great choice that I never even considered. Makes a lot of sense as an echo considering the character and is pretty easy to fit his moveset around while still being unique. However I do think we already have a lot of fighting game characters, including three fighting game echoes, and we went pretty hard on Namco characters in our DLC. Not the end of the world through.
• Roxas - I think this is the one. Makes perfect sense, is popular, has enough to stand out while still being a clone, and could even bring another whole character as an alt. Kingdom Hearts getting some more content would be cool too.
• A2 - It's been forever since I played automata but I think this would work. Could be cool to give one of our newcomers an echo but considering automata is just one game I don't really know if it needs it, and she also has the good boys and girls issue.
• Kasumi - I never played her parts of P5 so I don't know how well she'd work but considering it was seemingly at least considered for Smash, it could most likely work. I just think a second Persona 5 character would be uneeded.
• Piglin - I don't really think Minecraft needs a second rep. It might be the fact I don't have the same childhood attachment to Minecraft but since Steve already has mobs as skins I think it's be weird to separate it like this.
• Coco - On an iconic level this makes sense. However coco does have a very different body tthe from Crash that would likely prevent her from working as a full echo. It's not.impossible to make work though
• Edgeworth - could be cool. It's been ages since I played one of these games but doesn't he have a different job? Since our Phoenix moveset obviously had to get creative I don't think it would be too big an issue though.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

There are a lot of good choices here so it's hard to choose. This is one of those jobs where I really have no idea who's going to win honestly.

 

[darkvortex]

What why did my stone of advancement stage get added to the front page. it didn't win,:right?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

What why did my stone of advancement stage get added to the front page. it didn't win,:right?

That was a mistake on my part. To make formatting easier, I keep current formats saved on a different document and then I have different versions based on the winner. For example, in that voting, I had three separate OP formats for those stages. I meant to copy something over to the official one and that accidentally got copied over.