Simple Questions & Answers Thread (READ FAQ in OP)

[DtJ S2n]

What's up DKs?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

1. DK is incredible with the stage. The platform heights, lengths, edges, everything is very abusable by DK. We handle the hazards so-so. Our mobility and ledge ability prevents us from getting trapped by them, and although we're bound to get hit by something eventually (just too dang big), they cause a minimal impact on our care meter because of our weight and quick recovery.

2. Very positively. The only characters who I think get an improved match-up vs. DK because of Norfair are characters like Ganon, Bowser, maybe the Earthbound kids who just need all the help they can get. In the Earthbound kids scenario, it prevents them from being wrecked by our cargo grab, though the actual fight against us will be much harder. Low tiers that are good there, basically. Other than that, I wouldn't CP this vs Metaknight, Marth, GW, or Sheik though if they took me here I would be incredibly happy. Everyone else, Norfair would definitely be one of my top CPs for.

3. We want to hold the center platform. When the floor lava comes up, we don't want to be close to them on most match-ups, so we run away. If they're not on the center platform and we're below them? B-air and up-b all day. DK's strength on this stage is his pushing ability. Our massive aerials and air speed allow us to put you where we want and keep you there. Being trapped between a lava wall/falling lava and DK is probably one of the worst positions in the game.

On the defensive side, the length of the platforms lets us control any grounded combat that's not directly in our face. Our down-b and tilts literally cover the entire platform. Anyone approaching from air has to get through u-tilt, which may as well be DK expressing the fact that he has a tent above him. Like nothing ever beats u-tilt and it comes out quickly. We also have u/b-air for anti-air but they're not as great as u-tilt most of the time. And the best part, if we do happen to get hit? We can throw out up-b just whenever we want and fly to a ledge.

Regaining control of the center platform is a bit difficult. We can drop from the second platform and assault them with b-airs, which is really safe but really predictable, or we can play with the ledges on the center platform. Maybe knock them off with up-b. Otherwise, we can always just wait for the lava.

4. I honestly think this is DK's best stage overall, barring Jungle Japes. It's almost perfect for us, the only thing it's missing is slanted edges .

Wow I coulda sworn I made a write-up for this stage a long time ago... I guess not

 

[Host Change]

How would you go about approaching and fighting Kirby? Donkey Kong is one of the characters I'm practicing with right now as a potential backup, but this MU is driving me insane.

 

[Ripple]

reverse up-tilt/bair when he gets near while air born. > WIN

seriously

 

[Host Change]

reverse up-tilt/bair when he gets near while air born. > WIN

seriously

I can't believe I didn't think of that one! lol It makes sense that one would ruin Kirby's air game...

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

9 Wind Giant Punch seems really situational because of it being slower and not having SA frames on it? What situations do you guys actively abuse 9 Wind?

 

[Ripple]

I don't use it ever. I just don't like it, but its honestly too good not to learn when

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Alright I feel better for not using it.

Me personally, I pretty good at Powershielding so in my mind if I can do that I can consistently abuse the SA frames of his moves. Is that a good mindset for DK. Im used to Powershielding and then punishing from my D3.

 

[DtJ S2n]

9 winds happen most often when you're charging for a 10-wind. If you're just charging while standing still, a lot of people are reckless about disturbing you and you might be able to just drop all your charges on them right there. Charging mid-air is an easy way to bait spot-dodges, which makes for free 9-winds. Doing something like b-air > charging animation is really scary looking.

If you're actually going to hold the 9-wind and try and set them up for it, save it for their landing or recovery. Do something like b-air or d-throw, then watch for an airdodge. On their recovery, if it's someone like Falco you can obviously just punch him in the face if his phantasm ends right in front of you. Otherwise, your best bet is to ledge hog vs someone who recovered a little above the ledge like Mario/Marth/etc. ledge drop, double jump, reverse 9-wind.

Oh, but 10 wind is better in 95% of situations :x. You'll feel really cool if you do a 9 wind, but really I'd just let the 9-winds come to you if they come at all. Don't go looking for them.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I use 9 Wind if I'm at below 100 and the opponent is at 90ish (80 or 70 for light characters), past 100 (90-100), I just use fully charged.

I think 9 wind adds another mind game for DK, especially for spot dodges and recoveries.

 

[crifer]

At my last tourney I caught many good players with 9 punches, usually if I land or if they play a fast character (mk, shiek, fox etc)...
It won me matches, because I killed them at 50 % and they killed me at 180 %... try to use it smart, DK is so fat he can take the damage if you fail. high-risk/reward thing.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

This is honestly why I like fat characters. Get hit, don't care.



Next question: In general what are DK's best CP stages?

 

[crifer]

Yoshis island (invincibility UpB), BF, I like halberd, PS1, against falco Brinstar :D

imo.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Okay this next set is important:

Do the different colors of Donkey Kong have names?

And is there anyone who uses the blue one? (I <3 the purple tie)

 

[DtJ S2n]

Almost everything is a good CP for DK. PS2, Norfair(while it lasted =r), Brinstar, Pictochat, and Yoshi's are all strong stages for us. My personal general counterpick strategy is to take very aerial characters to Pictochat/Yoshi's and very grounded character to PS2/Norfair/Brinstar. If you're afraid of stage hazards or something vs a specific player or character, Yoshi's is always a solid choice, it almost can't backfire.

Aerial characters usually ban Yoshi's and grounded characters usually ban Brinstar, so get used to playing Pictochat and PS2.

[URL="http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198090]DK colors.[/URL] I guess it could be updated.
Original
Rage Kong (Red)
Grape (r)Ape (Blue)
Broccoli Kong (Green, in honor of our very own broccoli kong)
Martin Luther Kong Jr.
Honky Kong (White)

Sounds about right. I main Grape Ape, but I secondary Rage Kong. There's a few other ones like Mossy Kong for Green or Yeti Kong for white.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I actually really like Pokemon Stadium 1...I might be the only one though.

I also use Blue DK, but I don't matter, so whateva

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I main Grape Ape I suppose but Honky/Yeti Kong is my 2nd. lol

So can someone explain the Up B shenanigans on Yoshi's. Its rare I ever play on it since my character hates it.

As far as stages I actually love PS2 and know it pretty well And Im surprised DK can hold his own on Brinstar. Picto is now banned so I dont see a point in learning the stage any further. Hmm if DK is solid on the stage list as a whole he has some uses then. D3 hates Yoshi's (and I've been CPed there plenty of times) and doesnt like Battlefield. DK somewhat makes up for those neutrals I dont care to play on. I am interested even more now.

 

[Juushichi]

DK on Brinstar is ******** when MK/GnW is not there, imo.

That being said, until I learn my lesson... I will continue to take DK's there as Mario. <3 DK/Mario on Brinstar.

 

[DtJ S2n]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FXO43sUAc

Do the up-b right before you hit the ground. The reason it gets invulnerability all the way through is because frame 3-4 in air have invulnerability and when a spinning kong goes from aerial to grounded or vice versa, it keeps all the current properties of the move (including the hit noise). That's also how doing the super-armor glitch works. Just practice a bit, it's really easy once you do it a couple times.

It works on any slant, so other than Yoshi's edge: Yoshi's slanted platform, Picto, right side of boat on Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar if you're really sneaky, PS2's slanted platforms, I'm probably missing some others.

...when did Picto get banned. This is an outrage and I'm going to be really mad if this is true everywhere =x.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Unity ruleset has it banned.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I am so mad.

Quit brawl right now.

 

[Omari]

Why doesn't DK air-dodge after his 1st wind (neutral special, idk exact name)?

Why does DK air-dodge randomly (regardless whether you tapped grab/shield) after (2-10 winds)?

I meant to ask Will last time we were playing but I forgot..anyways, help a Mario out DK boards?

Thanks

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

You're buffering an air dodge when you cancel, just give the shield button a quick press once and you shouldn't air dodge.

...I believe.

 

[Ripple]

You're buffering an air dodge when you cancel, just give the shield button a quick press once and you shouldn't air dodge.

...I believe.

sorry but no, its all timing.

if you cancel it inbetween the sounds of his arm swinging you'll air dodge, if you cancel right as his arm makes a whoosh noise then you won't

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Alright, what I said is for another character than.

 

[Omari]

sorry but no, its all timing.

if you cancel it inbetween the sounds of his arm swinging you'll air dodge, if you cancel right as his arm makes a whoosh noise then you won't

Thanks Ripple!

I knew the problem couldn't be tapping/buffering because I'm on point (execution) in that area.

Stolen from D0N (while DK's on ledge): free fall>1 wind (depending on your situation, you have the option of charging either front (tap away from ledge>tap towards ledge (motion has to be done as fast as possible in order to prevent self destructing..)>special) or back (tap away from ledge>special))>double jump (anything)>spinning kong

Honestly, I believe simple planking to be better/safer but then again that's my opinion.

 

[aqua421]

when i am recovering against mk with my up b i tend to eat a lot of shuttle loops. is there anyway to avoid them or is the shuttle loop inevitable?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Recover low?

 

[DtJ S2n]

If you position yourself for it, the shuttle loops gonna happen lol. Our up-b has 3 frames of invincible on it, 4-6. It's when the strong first hit comes out, so if MK gets too close we can just spin on him.

Going low is one option, though if you get hit out of your second jump you're done for. Going high can work too if the metaknight comes out too far, his airspeed is too slow to catch you if you up-b in some positions.

 

[Ripple]

they are inevitable. work on SDI.

 

[i1337]

(while DK's on ledge): free fall>1 wind (depending on your situation, you have the option of charging either front (tap away from ledge>tap towards ledge (motion has to be done as fast as possible in order to prevent self destructing..)>special) or back (tap away from ledge>special))>double jump (anything)>spinning kong

wat

 

[Light-Kratos]

Hi.
DK can cargo release Lucas into ton of things right? Are there any other guaranteed grab/cargo release? I couldn't find.

 

[DtJ S2n]

On Ness too. And obviously we have grab release on Wario.

We probably have an aerial grab release into something on some character that I just don't know about.

 

[B.A.M.]

Is there any thread discussing DK's Potent ledge traps or just how to go about the ledge scenario?

 

[DtJ S2n]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11911558#post11911558
There's relevant discussion about DK getting off of the ledge from this post up to my post on that subject.

I don't know exactly what you mean by DK's potent ledge traps? If you're talking about us attacking an opponent on the edge, it's really either stand there and shield + d-smash on reaction to what they're doing, f/d-tilt at them, turn your back at them and prepare to b-air, time a punch, throw a random f-smash, or short hop d-air just over the ledge. Pretty straight forward .

 

[Saffy]

I'm having a hard time with the Ness match-up . I know he has grab release on him, but I don't find it fair so I never use it... What's the best way to play against him? More defensive? I seem to get ***** by his air game. I sometimes can get a grab out of shield if I'm lucky but I seem to get 2 stocked by every Ness I play D:. Is Bair camping effective?

Or just any advice would help! Thank you!

Also I'm sorry if this has been asked.. I don't have the time to go through 69 pages.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Try and stay as grounded as possible. His f-air, u-air, and sometimes pk fire, will murder you if you're in the air. We still have things to do out of grab release if you don't want to do the infinite. Cargo release to d-tilt, f-tilt, jab, and maybe u-tilt are all good options and free damage. D-smash out of cargo is a free kill.

Basically play the tilt game. Swat him out of his jump with f-tilt, it'll beat f-air, clank with side-b and often still hit him. Ness likes to be in the air, don't let him. B-air when you're sure you can land it or when you know he won't be moving towards you in the air. U-tilt will beat moves from above and is very fast.

Be quick to edge guard. If you're on stage and he's already started his up-b, it's not worth trying to edge guard that. Just grab the edge or get on the stage and hit him. If you've already committed to edge-guarding him, b-air is always good, but up-b is especially good here. Up-b is the better option when he's already started up his up-b, it hits at a more desirable angle and is good at eating his up-b if you miss. Also invincibility on 3 frames if you're really cutting it close.

Be patient always and watch Ness's spacing. You can't open yourself up to Ness and if you just watch what he does, we have the tools to stop all of his approaches. So yes, I really think you have to play as defensive as possible versus Ness. B-air camping's not effective because it can expose your underside and Ness is too short. You don't want Ness below you .

Counterpicks are Yoshi's if possible and then maybe PS2? I'm unsure what I would pick if Yoshi's is banned, which it always will be. PS2 should work well since it benefits us just standing still, which is really what happens in this match-up. I don't think I would ever suggest this in any other match-up, but Halberd doesn't sound bad either. Probably just up to personal preference.

Also dat DK M2 DK, nice lol.

 

[someonerandom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't DK be able to have 0 - deaths on most characters because of his 10 frame advantage, and that his grab comes out on frame 6? Also, this is assuming the DK is buffering perfectly.

 

[Ripple]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't DK be able to have 0 - deaths on most characters because of his 10 frame advantage, and that his grab comes out on frame 6? Also, this is assuming the DK is buffering perfectly.

he only has a 10 frame advantage when he himself breaks out of a grab. not when they break from his grab.

 

[Luigi player]

And his grab comes out on frame 8, not 6.

 

[MARLX]

What is donkey kongs momentom cancel? (Horizantel and vertical).