Should Planking (i.e. Ledgestalling) be Banned?

[Eddie G]

^ Eat yo veggies MK, you too short!

 

[LuigiKing]

Why, again, is it that only MK mains defend planking? I wish they could see how silly they all look.

 

[Veril]

Why, again, is it that only MK mains defend planking? I wish they could see how silly they all look.

They don't look silly. The argument might be motivated by self-interest but that doesn't really change its validity.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Yeah, if they didn't do that they'd get ***** as they tried to hit them, and the timer wouldn't run out because they'd die a lot quicker.

Regardless, it's the person with lower percent's responsibility of chasing the other down, the blame is on them if it times out, which is quite impossible to beat, and thus it's a broken tactic that should be banned.

in the case of planking, there are several characters that have a means of dealing with it, (assuming we consider planking based upon ledge stalling and not simply stalling).
the opponent can attempt to hog the ledge as much as they want, but many characters can simply impede the planking and ensure the opponent cannot sustain it indefinitely.

People who think projectiles can get around planking need to play against someone who's good at it. imo one of the ONLY characters that can deal with planking is MK. Projectiles don't work well, they're too easy to avoid.

Ask SamuraiPanda how hard it is to hit a planker with snake. Close to the only thing he can do is nakita and then to avoid it, the MK just gets on stage til the nakita is gone, then gets back onto the ledge. If the snake is too close when doing it, he'll get hit, then the MK will run away.

It's even pretty **** easy to dodge pika's thunder bolts when they come then hop back on the edge.

Why, again, is it that only MK mains defend planking? I wish they could see how silly they all look.

I don't know about that. I'm probably the campiest MK main out there, if not then very close, and I'm strongly lobbying for planking to be banned... don't look at how I voted XD I changed my mind since then.

 

[adumbrodeus]

A ledge-grab limit is an awful way to solve the situation.

If planking is so broken that people feel the need to limit the times you grab an edge to 70, then clearly the best solution is to only grab it 69 times. There's nothing stopping someone from doing that.

Not suggesting that it's broken, we don't know this yet.


But each ledge-grab gives you a certain amount of time.

If you can't get enough of a stall from it to actually run out the clock it doesn't matter.



The thing is, the technique doesn't give you invincibility, it just put's you in a powerful position. What makes it strong is that it creates a slippery slope, a slight percentage lead can become an immense lead based simply on how powerful the position is when created.

So what makes it strong is that as soon as you acquire a 1% lead, you can plank the entire game and your opponent has no choice but to approach, and run into an extremely powerful defensive position.



However, with an edge grab limit, if you try to turn a slight lead into a massive lead by planking here's what happens.

Your opponent planks.

You wait for about a minute.

Your opponent runs out of edgegrabs.

Match resumes regularly with a massive disadvantage towards your opponent because he can't grab the ledge again.


See, that's the difference between this limit and a lot of other techs, it loses most of it's power with almost any set limit under about 100.



So realistically the edge-grab limit amounts to any outright ban.

 

[fromundaman]

However, with an edge grab limit, if you try to turn a slight lead into a massive lead by planking here's what happens.

Your opponent planks.

You wait for about a minute.

Your opponent runs out of edgegrabs.

Match resumes regularly with a massive disadvantage towards your opponent because he can't grab the ledge again.

While I see your point, wouldn't that just be the would-be planker's fault for being stupid and using all his edge-grabs on something he/she knows in advance can't work what would be, in that case, the established ruleset?
I mean, I really see that disadvantage as being self-inflicted...

 

[adumbrodeus]

While I see your point, wouldn't that just be the would-be planker's fault for being stupid and using all his edge-grabs on something he/she knows in advance can't work what would be, in that case, the established ruleset?
I mean, I really see that disadvantage as being self-inflicted...

Exactly, that's the point.


The edge-grab rule would gut planking, it's basically an out-right ban.

 

[brinboy789]

Why, again, is it that only MK mains defend planking? I wish they could see how silly they all look.

...its not. click on the no and you get to see who supported the no

 

[Veggi]

...its not. click on the no and you get to see who supported the no

It's a trap!

He's tricking you into picking no. Actually, I don't have an opinion on this because the only plankers I've played against, I don't think knew how to do it right. It was when I was winning too, lol, still hit him anyway.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Most of the people who don't want the ledgegrab limit rule dont really understand what it is.

 

[XienZo]

Exactly, that's the point.


The edge-grab rule would gut planking, it's basically an out-right ban.

That would depend on the limit, wouldn't it? By adjusting the limit, we can change how much it prevents it.

Also, if they use planking to their advantage, and they still don't manage to win within the time limit, how do we know that it was the "forced approach" aspect that gave them the win, and not the "stalling" aspect of it?

Sometimes, we have to ban possibly legitimate tactics in order to fully cover what is clearly broken, especially if the "possibly" is a "rarely", like how Sonic can no longer use homing attack to cross from one ledge to another because we don't know if he just sucks at moving across or if he's actually stalling.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Why, again, is it that only MK mains defend planking? I wish they could see how silly they all look.

Get your head out of your ***.

I play Kirby, and I hate planking. I am ANTI BAN.


That sure knocks that argument out of the water dun it, durp durp durp.

 

[MoonShoes]

It could also be the opposite
Planking could be used to stall, especially on big stages, but if the opponent knows that the planker would just lose, he would just sit back and relax and wait to win...

Therefore the limit could change for the allotted time limit/stock or even individual stage.
I tried planking once, and it just didn't seem fun...

 

[Eddie G]

It could also be the opposite
Planking could be used to stall, especially on big stages, but if the opponent knows that the planker would just lose, he would just sit back and relax and wait to win...

Therefore the limit could change for the allotted time limit/stock or even individual stage.
I tried planking once, and it just didn't seem fun...

Who the **** would plank if they are losing? >.>;

 

[MoonShoes]

Well, I meant lose by default, by just planking too much
even if they are 'winning'" the match...

 

[Alus]

I believe that the edge grab limit is the best option... planking is gey and is coming more often and having a judge may result in having "favorites" or other human errors.

Buuuuuuuuuuuttt...

I voted "don't ban" because I think banning things that aren't winning tournaments is for sissies. If it's so good, why is no one winning tournaments because of it?

a good point.

Yes I once thought that it was too early...

 

[lain]

I think it's too early to decide this. No one actively planks these days. I've seen Scotu vs Epic, who both are from my state. Scotu was doing it to everyone, and got nearly last.

Also, just throwing this out there, IC's only get half of whatever the ledge grab limit is because there are two character's grabbing it separately.

:x

 

[Hype]

Lol at the thought of Ice Climbers Planking.

I agree with lain though. Planking isn't that common. I definately don't see people winning just because they are ledge camping.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I think it's too early to decide this. No one actively planks these days. I've seen Scotu vs Epic, who both are from my state. Scotu was doing it to everyone, and got nearly last.

:x

don't say such things or it may tempt me to prove ya wrong in chicago XD

 

[CRASHiC]

If Olympic wrestling can handle having a judge decide, why can't Smash?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lol at the thought of Ice Climbers Planking.

I agree with lain though. Planking isn't that common. I definately don't see people winning just because they are ledge camping.

Yeah. Besides, a skilled player can stop someone who keeps ledge camping. Especially if there using zss. And putting in a time limit is just gonna make things way to complicated. People might accidently go like 1 or 2 seconds over the time. This really doesn't need to be banned, it's just another mind game trick.

 

[Maniclysane]

Most of the people who don't want the ledgegrab limit rule dont really understand what it is.

The people that are for banning planking don't understand what they're banning.

 

[Jack Kieser]

If Olympic wrestling can handle having a judge decide, why can't Smash?

You do realize why having Judges at a Smash tournament is hard, right?

A ) If there are 10 matches going on at once, you need 10 judges.
B ) It's hard to get judges to volunteer, and even if it wasn't, you want reliable judges, so you'd need a paid staff of judges (ideally).
C ) That means you need the resources to employ a team of 10 qualified, respected judges.

Even then, judges screw up. Sure, I see the point in that if the Olympics can deal with judges having human error, then we should be able to, but logistically, it just isn't feasible for most tournaments to employ judges, especially when you consider how most tournaments are funded.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense.

 

[HiddenBowser]

The people that are for banning planking don't understand what they're banning.

I know perfectly well what I want banned. I don't think you know how stupid broken it is.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Why would you want it banned? If you can't beat it, find a way. It's just another strategy, and if your too stupid to use it, that's your fault.

 

[Eddie G]

Why would you want it banned? If you can't beat it, find a way. It's just another strategy, and if your too stupid to use it, that's your fault.

How very narrow-minded... >.>

 

[XienZo]

Why would you want it banned? If you can't beat it, find a way. It's just another strategy, and if your too stupid to use it, that's your fault.

So you just called everyone who doesn't use Metaknight an idiot?

 

[ShadowLink84]

People who think projectiles can get around planking need to play against someone who's good at it.

First place that I stopped reading.
You are automatically assuming the experience of the person with whom you are debating.

Do not do so, I praccied planking exclusively to find out how to defeat it.

Since i use Sonic, i can drop a spring. Yes it sounds easier than i really is, but this does not change the fact that planking can be dealt with in a manner that is safe.

Yes it is difficult, but that is the purpose, to play defensively so that the opponent is at a disadvantage when he comes to attack you.

imo one of the ONLY characters that can deal with planking is MK. Projectiles don't work well, they're too easy to avoid.

A sprin drops more slowly than bombs and grenades and C4. So the margin of error is much larger for me than for other characters. Let alone.
Yes it is difficult to deal with planking for all characters, some can deal with it more effectively than others.

Link can toss up a bomb, draw another bomb and toss it down and limit MK's options.
So can Tl.
yes it is difficult to deal with it, but there are many things in the game that are hard to deal with.

Ask SamuraiPanda how hard it is to hit a planker with snake. Close to the only thing he can do is nakita and then to avoid it, the MK just gets on stage til the nakita is gone, then gets back onto the ledge. If the snake is too close when doing it, he'll get hit, then the MK will run away.

So Snake cannot drop C4 while Mk is planking and then use his nikita i conjunction? Or place the nikita in the path of his SL?
Or how about using a combination of grenades with C4?

So far, you are saying it is hard to deal with not impossible.
It's even pretty **** easy to dodge pika's thunder bolts when they come then hop back on the edge.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I keep changing my mind from limit to too early.

But for now, I think it's too early to vote on it. It's a pretty new tactic, we have to wait to see how it plays out. Will a lot of people just do it to win? Will a lot of people not do it because they don't want to be brandished with negative looks? As of now, no one's winning with planking, so there's no dire threat to really ban.

However, if it does get to be a severe problem, the edge-grab rule would work best. Having a number of like 50 edge-grabs that you can't exceed if the timer runs out is good, because people can still plank to force an approach, but not stall the time. And really, the reason planking is being considered banned is because of the latter reason.

Too early.

Edit: However, if it gets to be a serious problem, there shouldn't be much debate at all to ban it. Like half the cast doesn't even have any options against planking, and another large majority has options, but none that the planker can't avoid. And using the, "It's just to force an approach," argument won't work, because we aren't banning it for that. We're banning it because it's stalling time, and stalling is already, and always has been, illegal in Smash.

 

[Eddie G]

I keep changing my mind from limit to too early.

But for now, I think it's too early to vote on it. It's a pretty new tactic, we have to wait to see how it plays out. Will a lot of people just do it to win? Will a lot of people not do it because they don't want to be brandished with negative looks? As of now, no one's winning with planking, so there's no dire threat to really ban.

However, if it does get to be a severe problem, the edge-grab rule would work best. Having a number of like 50 edge-grabs that you can't exceed if the timer runs out is good, because people can still plank to force an approach, but not stall the time. And really, the reason planking is being considered banned is because of the latter reason.

Too early.

You just swayed my opinion.

I now also believe it is too early to vote on the matter and to just wait to see how it all plays out. I disagree about the limit though; It's too much of a hassle to find a middle ground for this issue.

 

[AvaricePanda]

What about the limit do you not like? I agree that it could use some tweaks, like the opponent has to challenge ledgegrab rule and actually say the opponent was planking for it to take effect, instead of it just automatically happening, but as of now, it's the best solution if planking were a dire problem at the moment.

I'm sure that by the time Planking gets to be a problem, if it gets to be a problem, the rule will be modified to be better (plus it won't be decided on some random thread, lots of debate in SBR and the like).

But as of now, there really isn't a need for the rule because it's not winning tournaments, and I don't think it will ever win anything more than a local or small regional. Usually the MKs that plank aren't that great anyway.

 

[HiddenBowser]

or people will start using it all over the place, people will quit, then eventually they'll ban it, and everyone will get pissed off because they can't win without planking... ok, maybe that's the really bad case scenario, but still, you get the point.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

So you just called everyone who doesn't use Metaknight an idiot?

Sorry if i came off the wrong way. What I should have said is it's just another way of playing that works well for some characters and not so well for others. And Meta Knight isn't the only character that can use it well. For instance, I play Sheik and I use it fairly often when I'm on the edge, but I don't continuously stall with it, I just use it where and when necessary. Again, sorry if I came off the wrong way.

 

[HiddenBowser]

A sprin drops more slowly than bombs and grenades and C4. So the margin of error is much larger for me than for other characters. Let alone.
Yes it is difficult to deal with planking for all characters, some can deal with it more effectively than others.

jumping away from the stage when it's falling down works pretty well, lol

Link can toss up a bomb, draw another bomb and toss it down and limit MK's options.
So can Tl.
yes it is difficult to deal with it, but there are many things in the game that are hard to deal with.

to be able to drop it you need to be in a dangerous position, and you see it coming for an hour. jump away and jump toward, problem fixed.

So Snake cannot drop C4 while Mk is planking and then use his nikita i conjunction? Or place the nikita in the path of his SL?
Or how about using a combination of grenades with C4?

can't get in close with a c4 without danger, and yeah, it's still easy to dodge. seriously, ask SamuraiPanda. snake can't do much in this situation.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Sorry if i came off the wrong way. What I should have said is it's just another way of playing that works well for some characters and not so well for others. And Meta Knight isn't the only character that can use it well. For instance, I play Sheik and I use it fairly often when I'm on the edge, but I don't continuously stall with it, I just use it where and when necessary. Again, sorry if I came off the wrong way.

But that's the thing: people aren't thinking of banning Planking for the forcing-an-approach-strategy side, they're thinking of banning Planking because of the stalling-for-the-entire match side. Stalling is already banned.

Some matches, I'll regrab the ledge three to four times to try to look for an opening with my Diddy. That's not stalling the match, or really even forcing an approach, I'm just looking for an oppening. That's fine. However, sitting there for five minutes and just planking so you can win via time-out is stalling and already illegal.

And Bowyer, it doesn't have to get to a dangerously used rate for it to be considered ban-worthy. But as of now, I can only think of 3 memorable matches where someone planked in a tournament.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I guess it doesn't really matter. I play a character that can deal with it and if the soft ban on it starts to break then I guess I'll just plank and start to win more.

 

[∫unk]

Why do experienced and inexperienced players vote on the same thing.

Someone with less than 3-5 tournies experience shouldn't be able to vote on tournament rules because they haven't gone/may never go to enough tournaments for it to really apply to them or for them to have enough knowledg to form an opinion.

 

[ShadowLink84]

jumping away from the stage when it's falling down works pretty well, lol

Hey I can do it too
I drop the spring, you jump away to avoid it (since you cant shuttle loop) and I Dair edge hog yo!u!

to be able to drop it you need to be in a dangerous position, and you see it coming for an hour. jump away and jump toward, problem fixed.

You dont have to plae yourself i a bad position, because MK's vertical ascension is piss poor.
Let alone that the bombs have a good amount of area to their explosion, so again, you dont need to be perfect.

You can see the first bomb come out, but the you have the second bomb to deal with as well.

can't get in close with a c4 without danger, and yeah, it's still easy to dodge. seriously, ask SamuraiPanda. snake can't do much in this situation.

Sp=/=master of brawl
Stop referring to him repeatedly. Can you bring up verification from many other people as well?

Again how is it dangerous? MK's ascension is piss poor so he wont be able to punish you as easily if you go high enough. Since that would limit his options because he is too busy having sex with the ledge.

 

[Mattsy]

Regardless, it's the person with lower percent's responsibility of chasing the other down, the blame is on them if it times out, which is quite impossible to beat, and thus it's a broken tactic that should be banned.

In the same way it's quite possible to survive jumping off a cliff. >_>

And yes, it is broken and should be banned :>

(Just realised you main MK lawl)