Should Planking (i.e. Ledgestalling) be Banned?

[RazeveX]

(Just realised you main MK lawl)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

If Smashboards was Nazi Germany, Metaknight mains would be jews.

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if famous MK mains started getting beat up at tournaments...


...M2K, you should learn karate or something...

 

[eboz74]

it should not be banned at all but a limitation would be ok.....i guess. there are a lot of oppertunities and stratagies with planking

 

[Brinzy]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

If Smashboards was Nazi Germany, Metaknight mains would be jews.

Well, at least when MK camps, he's not doomed to die horribly.

 

[B!squick]

Hmm... I sense this thread is skirting a touchy subject.

>.>

 

[deepseadiva]

Agreed.

D*** racists.

 

[RazeveX]

Agreed.

D*** racists.

?

Is this directed at me?

 

[deepseadiva]

Yes.

Why is it that all MK mains are racists against Jews?
This is a joke because you can't be racist against religions.

Ahahaha.

...ha.

T__T

 

[Brinzy]

I think what that whole post was saying is that everyone but MK are Nazis and MK is a Jew or something...

Ok, I'm going way off-topic.

 

[RazeveX]

Comprehension levels are soooo **** low its not even funny.
Seriously, there is no possible way I could have made what I said any clearer.

Yes.

Why is it that all MK mains are racists against Jews?
This is a joke because you can't be racist against religions.

Ahahaha.

...ha.

T__T

Hilarious.

On a serious note, I didn't say that MK mains were racist against Jews. Simple as that. No need to call people racist. But hey, it's not like it's an offensive word or anything (/sarcasm).

I think what that whole post was saying is that everyone but MK are Nazis and MK is a Jew or something...

Ok, I'm going way off-topic.

No, that is not what I was saying.

You know what? I'm even going to quote it for you.

If Smashboards was Nazi Germany, Metaknight mains would be jews.

This has nothing to do with Metaknight as a character; I was saying that MK MAINS (not MK himself) have a negative stigma towards them in the smash community, comparable (obviously nowhere near as severe, it was an exaggeration) to the way Jews were discriminated against/treated in Nazi Germany.


Ok, yeah, so now we're really off topic; but it wouldn't have been if people had actually paid attention to the very very very simple statement in front of them.

Now that I think about it, if that statement was misunderstood, I don't see how anyone is going to even bother with this post...

 

[adumbrodeus]

If Olympic wrestling can handle having a judge decide, why can't Smash?

Let me give another example of this, if Olympic Figure Skating can have a judge decide, then why can't smash?


It's not like the judges will make a deal to award the gold to a specific country in spite of superior performance right?

The moral of the story isn't even that judges are necessarily corrupt, but you can't really have any sort of proof as to why a judge ruled one way or another. They also have their own biases, regardless of whether or not they know it themselves.

Furthermore it creates a chilling effect, preventing people from developing new tactics for fear of being called by the judge if they think that it's a banned action.


If at all possible, subjective judging is something to avoid. Specific actions are easy to ban, nebulous concepts like planking aren't.

But that's the thing: people aren't thinking of banning Planking for the forcing-an-approach-strategy side, they're thinking of banning Planking because of the stalling-for-the-entire match side. Stalling is already banned.

Some matches, I'll regrab the ledge three to four times to try to look for an opening with my Diddy. That's not stalling the match, or really even forcing an approach, I'm just looking for an oppening. That's fine. However, sitting there for five minutes and just planking so you can win via time-out is stalling and already illegal.

And Bowyer, it doesn't have to get to a dangerously used rate for it to be considered ban-worthy. But as of now, I can only think of 3 memorable matches where someone planked in a tournament.

You can't stall the entire match with it, your position is too vulnerable, if you keep planking no matter what then your opponent will just steal the ledge.

It's far stronger in creating a powerful defensive position at a time where your opponent is slightly behind so they are required to do something or lose.

 

[AlphaZealot]

This has nothing to do with Metaknight as a character; I was saying that MK MAINS (not MK himself) have a negative stigma towards them in the smash community, comparable (obviously nowhere near as severe, it was an exaggeration) to the way Jews were discriminated against/treated in Nazi Germany.

Dude, not true, yea some are less liked, but MK mains like Forte, Omni, Rofa, Kel, and even M2K are awesome dudes.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'm pretty sure the only people that dislike MK mains and say so much dumb **** about them are complete pillocks.

 

[TheFast]

Dude, not true, yea some are less liked, but MK mains like Forte, Omni, Rofa, Kel, and even M2K are awesome dudes.

You forgot Dojo >_>
But really this thread needs to get back to the subject of planking and not MK

 

[Eddie G]

Wow RazeveX, take that garbage back to the thread I met you at. We don't need any of that here. >.>

 

[X WaNtEd X]

But that's the thing: people aren't thinking of banning Planking for the forcing-an-approach-strategy side, they're thinking of banning Planking because of the stalling-for-the-entire match side. Stalling is already banned.

Some matches, I'll regrab the ledge three to four times to try to look for an opening with my Diddy. That's not stalling the match, or really even forcing an approach, I'm just looking for an oppening. That's fine. However, sitting there for five minutes and just planking so you can win via time-out is stalling and already illegal.

And Bowyer, it doesn't have to get to a dangerously used rate for it to be considered ban-worthy. But as of now, I can only think of 3 memorable matches where someone planked in a tournament.

And I agree with that. I think people who do that should have to automatically forfeit. But, if someone is stalling by ledge camping, they should just be eliminated. Simple. There shouldn't be a specific number of times they should be allowed to use the ledge, that just makes things too complicated. I think people should be able to ledge stall for a strategic purpose or to mindgame, but not to stall to waste the timer.

 

[Brinzy]

No, that is not what I was saying.

You know what? I'm even going to quote it for you.

This has nothing to do with Metaknight as a character; I was saying that MK MAINS (not MK himself) have a negative stigma towards them in the smash community, comparable (obviously nowhere near as severe, it was an exaggeration) to the way Jews were discriminated against/treated in Nazi Germany.

I didn't think I had to be completely clear there because I saw "MK mains" but I figured I'd just call them "MKs" because they are, to me, interchangeable... and it was us joking. We understood exactly what you were saying - the fact that you're taking us somewhat seriously (like Meno calling "racist" because it was just a joke and everything I said up until now being a joke) nullifies any "comprehension woes" we had.

MK mains will be beat up, accirding to you, but for what reason? They main MK.

 

[Irsic]

The really sad part about this topic is that someone called being Jewish strictly a religion.

 

[rehab]

Even if it's **** against select characters, that doesn't prove anything. There are characters that it definitely is not the best thing to use against, so the broken thing goes out the window immediately. This is what every one of these ban etc things has boiled down to: if it's not a cureall for every situation trying to get it banned is pointless.

It's good? Check. Unfun to watch? For a lot of people, check. Banwagon? Check. Proban never proving anything significant? Check.

This happens every third month, and nothing significant ever goes forward, because this is just the game we are choosing to play.

 

[Brinzy]

Well it's the same as Catholics, but you don't see anyone who dislikes Catholics "racist."

Not that this point really matters. The important thing is that all debates like this end talking about religion.

 

[1048576]

Even if it's **** against select characters, that doesn't prove anything. There are characters that it definitely is not the best thing to use against, so the broken thing goes out the window immediately. This is what every one of these ban etc things has boiled down to: if it's not a cureall for every situation trying to get it banned is pointless.

It's good? Check. Unfun to watch? For a lot of people, check. Banwagon? Check. Proban never proving anything significant? Check.

This happens every third month, and nothing significant ever goes forward, because this is just the game we are choosing to play.

Name one besides the mk ditto, and even then...

 

[fromundaman]

Hey, here's a fun (not guaranteed AT ALL) way around it:

Step back and do your character's most annoying taunt over and over. "HI!" "You're too slow!" and "LALALALA" are best. Even if they don't get off the ledge out of frustration, they should be really pissed by the end of the match.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I like the edge count rule, but we need to adjust it since we don't have a 10 minute time limit. On an average, the 70 edge limit under 10 minutes forbids you from grabbing the edge on average over 7 times a minute. To adjust that to 8 minute time limit, it should be 56.

Formulas ftw.

 

[Ryusuta]

This is entirely unenforceable at larger tournaments, and I'm surprised that the subject even came up.

 

[deepseadiva]

The really sad part about this topic is that someone called being Jewish strictly a religion.

Sounds like someone supports the MKKK.

Go off to your meetings Irsic - or shall I say, Grand Dragon. >____>

 

[Eddie G]

Shut up about the religion topic already, please.

 

[rehab]

Name one besides the mk ditto, and even then...

Snake, Pikachu, I'm inclined to say Diddy and Wario, there are probably oddball exceptions like maybe Jigglypuff, and I wouldn't doubt there are many others that "ledgejump for 8 minutes" is a bad strategy against.

 

[Matador]

LOL @ this thread.

Only MK could make people racist.

 

[thanortinzak]

Do NOT ban planking. It's kinda noobish, but remember, NO JOHNS, motha****ers!

 

[rehab]

There you go. 3mmanuel, the Ace Attorney of P2W.

 

[PK-ow!]

How is ssb64 broken?

HAve I been misinformed?
Doesn't Ness' DJC dair break that game in twelve? And the game is such that if you ban Ness, then another character ***** the meta, and so on. . . ?

Meh whatever; it is tangential to my point and unnecessary to my argument.

... which I didn't see good replies to. "There are answers." Ooookay.... then what are we talking about?
One person said "Answers to a planking MK are not good against a non-planking MK." How do you mean?

EDIT: There was also this by XienZo:
"At the very least, we can take 50 matches that clearly have no planking, plot the data, find the bell curve, and then we can argue mathematically."

... that's pretty good. But (a) you've got "clearly" in there, which I 'm wary of, and (b) Do you cut off at the mean? Two standard deviations above the mean? Three? Where?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Perhaps certain characters that can get really annoying ledge camping such as Meta Knight and Jiggs should have a count placed on them so that they can't abuse ledge camping too much.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Dude, not true, yea some are less liked, but MK mains like Forte, Omni, Rofa, Kel, and even M2K are awesome dudes.

aww, you're not even going to include your circuit partner in here??? lol

 

[ShadowLink84]

aww, you're not even going to include your circuit partner in here??? lol

I like bowyer. Does that count?

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'd like everyone to not that Plank wont plank vs Azen because he can beat it.

Just saying~

 

[Ryusuta]

Again, I'm not sure where the debate is. In a large tournament situation, it is completely impractical to ban things like this. It's like banning DeDeDe's/Ice Climbers' infinite chain grabs. How the hell do you enforce it, while at least 8 other matches are going on?

The suggestion that you can ban certain repetitions of it is absolutely laughable. Hell, it's less practical than an outright ban. What are we thinking here - have someone hold a ticker and count off every single time they do it? I could just see that:

"He did it 70 times!"
"No, I didn't! I was counting, and it was only 67 times! You're just trying to get me to lose!"

And so on until the match and tournament become a gigantic fiasco. No matter what the outcome, the judges aren't happy, the participants aren't happy, and the people watching the matches aren't happy.

Here's an idea: if this technique is so broken, you could always go back to maybe... oh, I don't know... BANNING META KNIGHT?

Think about it. There was SERIOUS discussion about banning him even before all of this came up. Instead of making an arbitrary and COMPLETELY unenforceable rule against this technique, why not use it as the thing that tips the scales in favor of his ban. And if it's NOT good enough to ban Meta Knight, then it's not good enough to be banned in and of itself.

Seems like a fairly clear situation to me.

 

[deepseadiva]

What are we thinking here - have someone hold a ticker and count off every single time they do it? I could just see that:

"He did it 70 times!"
"No, I didn't! I was counting, and it was only 67 times! You're just trying to get me to lose!"

There's a counter on the winner's screen at the end of each game.

 

[Ryusuta]

Fair enough. I didn't think of that. May main point still stands, though, that if it's such a good technique, it should be evidence for Meta Knight's ban so the whole issue doesn't come up.

 

[rehab]

Not only is Meta Knight not auto-unbeatable when he planks, but he is not the only one who can plank.

 

[PK-ow!]

Again, I'm not sure where the debate is. In a large tournament situation, it is completely impractical to ban things like this. It's like banning DeDeDe's/Ice Climbers' infinite chain grabs. How the hell do you enforce it, while at least 8 other matches are going on?

Dude, that's just being lazy. The chaingrab bans are totally enforceable (not that they're justified, mind you).

"Large tournament" doesn't mean you suddenly can't ban anything. I don't even understand that.

The suggestion that you can ban certain repetitions of it is absolutely laughable. Hell, it's less practical than an outright ban. What are we thinking here - have someone hold a ticker and count off every single time they do it? I could just see that:

"He did it 70 times!"
"No, I didn't! I was counting, and it was only 67 times! You're just trying to get me to lose!"

Read the first post.

Here's an idea: if this technique is so broken, you could always go back to maybe... oh, I don't know... BANNING META KNIGHT?

Think about it. There was SERIOUS discussion about banning him even before all of this came up. Instead of making an arbitrary and COMPLETELY unenforceable rule against this technique, why not use it as the thing that tips the scales in favor of his ban. And if it's NOT good enough to ban Meta Knight, then it's not good enough to be banned in and of itself.

Seems like a fairly clear situation to me.

This is a possibility. I'm sure someone will say "It's not just meta knight" though.

However, this would be an elegant solution. A ****ty outcome, but an elegant solution. But that's only if planking actually is a problem AND ALSO Meta Knight is the only reason it is an unsolvable one. Both are disputable right now.

 

[Melomaniacal]

As far as I'm concerned, planking - being used to stall - should be banned. I honestly don't know how or why there's an argument against this. Stalling is banned. Planking is very often used to stall. If the timer runs out, you stalled. If the timer runs out and you grabbed the edge an absurd amount of times, you planked to stall. There is a ledge grab counter at the end, that will only matter if the time runs out, as in only if you stalled. The grab limit rule makes this illegal without eliminating the use of planking as a technique to gain positional advantage. It eliminates it as a stalling technique, and again, stalling is illegal.