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Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

Should Metaknight be banned?


  • Total voters
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yummynbeefy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
2,150
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DEY TUK ER JERBS!!! (Tampa, FL)
well imo mk is definately beatable but hes swarming tournaments too much and hardlt any other characters stand a fair chance agenst him (like the best odds are 50/50 and all the other characters have at least a few matchups that are not in their favor)? well where im from anyways plus no one likes playing with a metaknight player cuz most of them spam the tornado and side-b or will press a then immediately go to a down-smash which is extremely unfair imo
all of his attacks are too fast (down smash takes like 5 frames to come out and all of his attacks have priority on almost every move in the game) so it would be for the better if he was banned but it would be a big hit on mk mains
 

Ayaz18

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
2,052
Location
Canada, ON, St. catharines
im all for the MK ban but if there has to be a compromise I would agree with this:

MK is banned if the opponent they are facing wishes for MK to be banned, however A ban results in the opponent Counterpicking any stage instead

just to keep things even
 

Iwan

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
826
Location
Leesburg, VA
No one's really questioning YOUR knowledge Inui.....obviously you know most of your stuff like any good smasher does.

I think most of the people here are just getting annoyed at how you're blatantly going out of your way to gloat about your tournament placings and how it sounds like you really want people to like....

become a fan girl of yours.
xD

:p
 

Chaco

Never Logs In
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12,136
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Guys, c'mon now. We're all smart here, cept for Ankoku....cuz he's genius. (+1 Brownie point) Jk Anyway, we are all equal here in this discussion, purple names or not everyone has their opinion and they have the right to state it just as much as the SBR members. But SBR members may be a tad bit more knowledgeable towards the game, that's not true in all cases but still it is true.

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da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
im all for the MK ban but if there has to be a compromise I would agree with this:

MK is banned if the opponent they are facing wishes for MK to be banned, however A ban results in the opponent Counterpicking any stage instead

just to keep things even
uhhhh...
the point of banning MK to begin with is to keep things even.

if we ban him and than give away CPs than you might as well not ban him and keep it the way things are going now...

i understood teh concept of keeping him in and giving CPs to the other guy, but this doesnt even make sence
 

Inui

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
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Ocean Grove, New Jersey
if sonic is so bad than you as a player must be in crap tier to have to resort to Mk to beat him...
Wtf? I beat Blue, a Sonic better than the one I lost to, 2-0 with MARTH in two money matches and I can beat him 2-0 with Captain Falcon before LOL.

maybe because they ARENT AS GOOD
No, the players aren't good enough.

comes out in 3 frames by the way...
No. D-smash is 5 frames.

Right now, all the Empirical data shows, well, MK whooping EVERYONE.
Not Atlantic North.

Today's NJ tournament:

Teams:
1: Inui and Atomsk (Snake and Olimar/Lucario)
2: Yes! and Izumi (Snake and Meta Knight)
3: Diem and Ether (Meta Knight and Snake)
4: Blue and Kai (Sonic and Sonic)
5: NinjaEdd and AAAA (Falco/Diddy Kong and Meta Knight)
6: Steve and Mr. Ryu (Zelda and Snake)

Singles:
1: Atomsk (Olimar/Kirby/Dedede)
2: Keitaro (Falco)
3: Yes! (Snake)
4: Inui (Snake)
5: Diem (Meta Knight)
5: Blue (Sonic)
7: Ether (Snake)
7: Izumi (Meta Knight/Toon Link)
9: AAAA (Meta Knight)
9: Edd (Diddy Kong/Falco)
9: Steve (Zelda)
9: Kai (Sonic)
13: Mr. Ryu (Snake)

I lost to Yes! in Snake dittos and lost to Atomsk's Olimar with Snake. I don't think Olimar has an advantage, but I do know that I lacked match-up experience and he didn't, so he won. As for Snake dittos...I'm terrible at them, just like I am at MK dittos. I probably would have won against Yes!'s Snake if I used my actual best character.

Atomsk beat everyone with Olimar besides dmbrandon's MK, who he beat with Dedede. He beat Keitaro a few times in grand finals with Kirby. Keitaro beat Atomsk in winners in Falco vs Olimar in a very close set.

dmbrandon was the only MK to place decentish, and he lost to...a SNAKE and Dedede. AAAA lost to my Snake and Ether's Snake.

Over here we see Snake consistently take out MK regardless of skill level. Top MKs like Forte and Shadow lose to Snake. Average MKs like AAAA lose to Snake.
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Wtf? I beat Blue, a Sonic better than the one I lost to, 2-0 with MARTH in two money matches and I can beat him 2-0 with Captain Falcon before LOL.



No, the players aren't good enough.



No. D-smash is 5 frames.



Not Atlantic North.

Today's NJ tournament:

Teams:
1: Inui and Atomsk (Snake and Olimar/Lucario)
2: Yes! and Izumi (Snake and Meta Knight)
3: Diem and Ether (Meta Knight and Snake)
4: Blue and Kai (Sonic and Sonic)
5: NinjaEdd and AAAA (Falco/Diddy Kong and Meta Knight)
6: Steve and Mr. Ryu (Zelda and Snake)

Singles:
1: Atomsk (Olimar/Kirby/Dedede)
2: Keitaro (Falco)
3: Yes! (Snake)
4: Inui (Snake)
5: Diem (Meta Knight)
5: Blue (Sonic)
7: Ether (Snake)
7: Izumi (Meta Knight/Toon Link)
9: AAAA (Meta Knight)
9: Edd (Diddy Kong/Falco)
9: Steve (Zelda)
9: Kai (Sonic)
13: Mr. Ryu (Snake)

I lost to Yes! in Snake dittos and lost to Atomsk's Olimar with Snake. I don't think Olimar has an advantage, but I do know that I lacked match-up experience and he didn't, so he won. As for Snake dittos...I'm terrible at them, just like I am at MK dittos. I probably would have won against Yes!'s Snake if I used my actual best character.

Atomsk beat everyone with Olimar besides dmbrandon's MK, who he beat with Dedede. He beat Keitaro a few times in grand finals with Kirby. Keitaro beat Atomsk in winners in Falco vs Olimar in a very close set.

dmbrandon was the only MK to place decentish, and he lost to...a SNAKE and Dedede. AAAA lost to my Snake and Ether's Snake.

Over here we see Snake consistently take out MK regardless of skill level. Top MKs like Forte and Shadow lose to Snake. Average MKs like AAAA lose to Snake.
Your being biased with your data... >_<
Although I don't doubt that it's correct and that MKs are losing at times, your forgetting some tournies.
TOURNAMENT: The Last Hurrah - Cyberden
LINK: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201678
DATE: October 26th, 2008
LOCALE: Atlantic North
ENTRANTS: 52
ENTRY: $10.00
RESULTS:
1 Forte (Meta Knight)
2 Chu Dat (Kirby)
3 Korn (Meta Knight/King Dedede)
4 Boss (Mario/Luigi)
5 Candy (King Dedede/Snake/Meta Knight)
5 NEO (Marth)
7 Chillin (Snake)
7 Yooster (Meta Knight)

That's an example I have yet to see. Of course, it's obvious you need to be biased for persuasive purposes...
Anyways, check this for less biased info.
http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments2.txt

It still shows MK winning like, 30-40% of the time throughout these tournies, yes, win, like #1. something like that. =/ I think I only did October's results though
Oh, and including your result from today along with the results from that link, MK won in Atlantic North tournaments 7/15 times or ~47% throughout the last month. Think about it, 47% percent of the tournies. They're fairly recent too, dating only to October 4th.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Is winning 30-40% bad? o_O
mauve said:
'balance' this 'balance' that. most of the people talking about how the game is OMG BALANCED don't even know half the **** in the game

people generally like playing the game their way, screw the way the rules are setup - the more viable pathways there are, the higher the chance of them finding the way they want to play it in the rules

i'm tired of the "it's balanced!!!" argument coming up anytime anyone ever tries to criticize the game ever. it destroys rational discussion

in reality no one gives a **** about balance. they just want the game to play the way they like - you know it as well, there's a reason you choose to play some but not others

a game with two identical sides with only one option each can be considered balanced, but no one wants that.
 

Proverbs

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,698
Location
Seattle, WA
Statistics may speak louder than words, but you fail at statistics. For starters, I cannot answer the poll because neither of the two options represent my viewpoint. Even if you had enough options, your poll would not be the "accurate estimate of how many people support/oppose the metaknight ban" that you claim. It would be a biased misrepresentative sample from the Smashboards users that noticed your poll, and extrapolating results to the general Brawl community (or even Smashboarders) would be wrong.

One of the most basic principles of statistics is that misleading data is much much worse than no data.
Chill bud. He can't poll everyone in the universe, can he? He put a poll where he knows to put it best. And plus, asking people on smashboards is a lot better than asking all of the casual players who don't even know what the term 'matchup' means. As it is, this poll is showing you a random sample of people, meaning he did not at all influence who was voting, except for the fact that he put it where most people who have a good understanding of how the smash games work are.

As it is, this is a random group of people, which is the best representation of everyone--because it is in fact random.

And if you say that people who know the game better shouldn't be polled to make a tournament decision consider two things.

1. The people here are the ones more likely to play in and place well in tournaments.

2. What do you think the electoral college does?

Anyway, just needed to put that out there. No ill will meant, but this guy is doing the best he can to get a good representation of who wants Metaknight banned and who doesn't want him banned.

And for the record--this guy should totally be banned like ridiculous. Let me point out as it has been in the past that he is Sakurai's favorite character--no coincidence at all considering his placement. And what about the second on the tier list, Snake? A personal favor for a close friend of the creator of Brawl, Sakurai. Suspicious at all?

Metaknight needs to be banned. I don't even play Brawl and I'm convinced he needs to be. After seeing just what Sakurai did to the third smash game I was convinced Melee was a much better competitive game. He threw a huge stumbling block into the way of anyone trying to have fun with this game and make it more exciting. But that's not what he wanted it to be, he didn't want people to actually try to win or get better at all. He just wanted us to look at the flashing lights and colors, basically. Let me quote him from the Dojo: About the main theme song he says, "It’s such an important song, you could even call it the core of this game."

What the heck!? The core of the game isn't the gameplay, strategy, or even fun--it's a song.

No wonder the game plummeted.

Sorry about my anti-Brawl rant, but I just gotta say, this is just part of the reason why I don't play the game. Sakurai ruined everyone's fun. :(
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Minnesota
Is winning 30-40% bad? o_O
Well, I mean, when you have 32 characters with one winning like, 40%, and 47% in a place supposedly where snakes rule, I think it's bad. I haven't even checked snake's win percentages in these tournaments, lol. If it's like your thread, it might be around 20%. Of course Ankoku, I'm not taking into account your calculations, I'm simply using tournament wins/losses. Your thread is definitely more accurate, and it still shows MK dominating. =/

Yeah, so far this month, MK has placed top spots in 41% of the tournies while Snake at 23%. This is just basic percentage people, for empirical data.
 

rehab

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
494
Location
Rockville, MD
Lots of characters in a roster just means its more likely that it will be less balanced and you'll have more relatively worthless baggage characters than with a smaller roster. Top tier is never very big.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
19,658
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Rochester, NY
yo inui you said you were gonna win and get snake madd points, what happened?

like a very close friend of mine would say,
"Come on! Step it up!!"
you didnt even get money....
if the guy loses to an MK and a D3 that only shows that those guys were better players... it doesnt prove much

you were talking madd smack on keitaro too, you were supposed to beat him

im disappointed in you...

on the brightside, tell Blue to keep repping sonic, and eventually ill play him and show what sonic can do. lol. who did he lose to anyway?

p.s. you only beat blue because you know his style, and he plays a terribad character
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Rochester, NY
the goofy :D face at the end of his sentance means he was beign sarcastic, in case you couldnt tell...
i almost missed it my first time reading it.
 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
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Atomsk beat everyone with Olimar besides dmbrandon's MK, who he beat with Dedede. He beat Keitaro a few times in grand finals with Kirby. Keitaro beat Atomsk in winners in Falco vs Olimar in a very close set.
Kirby is ****ing gay, I hate that **** :(

yo inui you said you were gonna win and get snake madd points, what happened?
lol, his Snake was not gonna win for sure with me there :D jk Inui

Oh, and Blue went Snake and took Inui to 3rd match last stock. It was Blue's first time using Snake ever too, lmao!! Too good!!
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Minnesota
the goofy :D face at the end of his sentance means he was beign sarcastic, in case you couldnt tell...
i almost missed it my first time reading it.
=/ I could tell, but I wasn't sure, so I made first sentence ironic(verbal irony), second sentence serious.

And dang about Blue. Going snake first time and almost beating inui? lulz
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Super gay, campy Snake and Olimar actually fighting MK correctly, win. More people need to play gay. It's impossible to out-rushdown MK, you have to camp the hell out of him. The Melee mind-set of super, fast button aggro does not work here. Throw that out of the window.

NJ is a Snake-heavy state recently. Everyone has at least a secondary Snake now. We need more Olimars now too.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
Super gay, campy Snake and Olimar actually fighting MK correctly, win. More people need to play gay. It's impossible to out-rushdown MK, you have to camp the hell out of him. The Melee mind-set of super, fast button aggro does not work here. Throw that out of the window.
And we want to encourage this?
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Camping all day is certainly boring, unfun and draining. Can't deny that. Best way to kill MK unfortunately. I started learning Naruto GNT/Rev2, it's pretty fun and non-campy.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Camping isn't boring, it's fun. It's fun setting up a defense and and making sure no one gets past your wall. And camping isn't easy vs good players either, which makes it more fun.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
Camping isn't boring, it's fun. It's fun setting up a defense and and making sure no one gets past your wall. And camping isn't easy vs good players either, which makes it more fun.
Fun for the camper is not necessarily fun for the campee.
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Okay, so your saying that suddenly, MK will start being drastically countered by super gay snakes and olis?
Well, let's see if his win percentage goes below the 35% mark in the Atlantic North or in general. =/
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
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Lol, I honestly think its true. Not to mention that MKs blade for some reason gets beat out by at least elemental projectiles, or so I've heard. If people started palying campier against MK, he wouldn't be that much of a problem, but I think most of us are to proud.

Camping can be fun if you make it so. Even if I dislike it.
 

infomon

Smash Scientist
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Location
Toronto, Canada
Not to mention that MKs blade for some reason gets beat out by at least elemental projectiles, or so I've heard.
MK's blade (in most slashy-looking attacks) does not clash with opponent hitboxes. This both helps and hinders MK. It means he has an unusual weakness to most projectiles which can be destroyed by attacks (small aura spheres, Dyn's fire etc.). Although most people dodge or shield to avoid them anyway, it matters nonetheless. It also means that MK can't block your Fsmash with his Fsmash, say, although this advantage generally goes to MK since his attacks are so fast and disjointed. Your jab does nothing on his jab, and your jab is more likely to expose your hurtbox into his hitbox anyway. >.>
 

M15t3R E

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Lol, I honestly think its true. Not to mention that MKs blade for some reason gets beat out by at least elemental projectiles, or so I've heard. If people started palying campier against MK, he wouldn't be that much of a problem, but I think most of us are to proud.

Camping can be fun if you make it so. Even if I dislike it.
Uhh... MK can approach you with broken range and broken speed so playing campy doesn't work either.

Camping isn't fun. Why would you get lazy in a video game? Fun is action. Campy does not equate to good action. Chew on that logic.
 

M15t3R E

Smash Master
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Fun is subjective. Chew on that logic.
I don't believe that very campy players can truly feel they are having fun.
It's not how you're even supposed to play the game. What you're supposed to do is move around near your opponent mindgaming and attacking your opponent while being mindful not to let your guard down whenever possible. Not standing or SH'ing in the same small vicinity abusing your projectiles. Can you or anyone else honestly say that is fun?
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
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San Diego, CA
I don't believe that very campy players can truly feel they are having fun.
It's not how you're even supposed to play the game. What you're supposed to do is move around near your opponent mindgaming and attacking your opponent while being mindful not to let your guard down whenever possible. Not standing or SH'ing in the same small vicinity abusing your projectiles. Can you or anyone else honestly say that is fun?
I'm having fun.

And who are you tell me how to play the game? Just because it works? Just because it's not fun to you?
 

M15t3R E

Smash Master
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Okay, I don't understand how you have fun camping but to each his own.

BTW, I'm not in the minority for my opinion. Most players hate camping with a passion.
 
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