HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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- Aug 3, 2008
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- HeroineYaoki
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- 2191-8960-7738
How did Mario come up? 
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Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I think Edrees is a top player, especially based on Mew2King saying he was extremely good and easily the best Peach. He also tends to perform very well from what I've seen. I'd love to play him so I could have a chance to lose to such a mediocre character, lol.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Why do you bring up m2k? @_@
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Well, in this context bringing up M2K is fine. Because he's a top player...lol, I know you're not going to want to hear that but...
Because M2K is a top player, if he says someone is really good it holds more weight than if a random noob says someone is really good, since M2K's standards are high when it comes to player skill, since he's the best player in the world.
Because M2K is a top player, if he says someone is really good it holds more weight than if a random noob says someone is really good, since M2K's standards are high when it comes to player skill, since he's the best player in the world.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
I agree. Because Mew2King doesn't base this on facts and tournament results, but on his judgement. And because he is one of the most experienced and best players in the world, he's capable of doing a fairly good job at it.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Mew2King certainly bases it a lot on facts and results, lol.
When he played Dojo in Texas, he destroyed him very badly. But Dojo beats all the people that Mew2King almost lost to and he constantly takes 1st in singles and teams in big events, so Mew2King says he's very good despite ****** him so badly.
When he played Dojo in Texas, he destroyed him very badly. But Dojo beats all the people that Mew2King almost lost to and he constantly takes 1st in singles and teams in big events, so Mew2King says he's very good despite ****** him so badly.
Yeah and M2K also said that he could very well see Peach winning tourneys. Snakeee also agreed that she was tourney viable. Drk.Pch also listed Peach's matchups as follows: 60:40 snake, 60:40 MK, 50:50 Luc. M2K only disagreed about Peach being even with Luc.
But Inui disagrees, and I'm obviously wrong because <insert MD/VA meatriding comment here>. See where I'm going with this?
Back to watching Supernatural ^_^
But Inui disagrees, and I'm obviously wrong because <insert MD/VA meatriding comment here>. See where I'm going with this?
Back to watching Supernatural ^_^
Natch
Smash Ace
Unfortauntely, Inui seems to think that since their word holds more weight, it's completly infalliable. Besides, M2K saying some player is "Really good" is different than some newb saying some player is "really good."
Also, Inui is using a paradoxical argument. He makes a claim, and if we disagree and provide some kind of an argument, he says that we are too inexperienced to know what we are talking about. If he's correct, then he must explain to us WHY what he says is true, because us inexperienced people can't understand what he's telling upfront. We need details. We are too ignorant.
At this point, he should respond to our points. If it impossible for us to grasp what he's saying upfront, he must go into detail if we are to understand. He doesn't do this. What he's actually doing is looping back to the "Experience" card. Which does not help us-the ignorant newbs-at all.
He calls us ignorant, while at the same time refuses to help us become "non-ignorant," so to speak.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I do believe Peach vs MK/Snake was explained quite thoroughly.
Natch
Smash Ace
Please, link me. I wish to see this.
Bento, is your sig from Jet Set Radio or Jet Grind Radio.
Both are good games anyhow. =/
Btw, I thought the marth boards had really good match up discussions and that EmblemLord uses frame data in his match ups. =/ Guess obviously opinion supported by Inui>frame data ya know. >_>
Both are good games anyhow. =/
Btw, I thought the marth boards had really good match up discussions and that EmblemLord uses frame data in his match ups. =/ Guess obviously opinion supported by Inui>frame data ya know. >_>
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
And if M2k didn't exist what would you say then?
Just poking you so to speak. my question was purely curiosity not to debate.
JSRF <3 My previous one was from JGR, but I guess nobody recognized Gum~ 
No it wasn't. You whipped out the unexperienced card as you always do. Now I'm reporting comments from a player whose opinion you actually value, that went against what you claimed, and you now have nothing to say. So again, what makes you more right than anybody else if you can't prove it for jack?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I wish i had that game again =(
Inui
Banned via Warnings
It was right in this thread. I explained how Peach loses in literally every single area to MK; KO power, speed, range, priority, recovery, etc. She also loses everything but mobility to Snake, since Snake's move speed is still crazy fast. Turbo Ether agreed with me about Snake ****** Peach and provided good reasons.
What does Peach have on MK? How does she fight him at all if she has inferior range, inferior speed, and inferior priority? How can she edgeguard him and not get edgeguarded when she is inferior in terms of both recovery and edgeguarding? MK may be lighter, but he has much more overall KO power, so he lives to higher percents anyways.
How the hell is that match-up only 60/40 MK?
Frame data isn't always perfect because most humans can't even function on the 6 frame maximum reaction time, let alone function on 1 frame. What happens in practice matters far more. I go by what happens in practice. What happens when Top Player X faces Top Player Y in Z match-up? That's what counts, because that's what actually happens.aeghrur said:
I so wish they made a sequel :[. There is no game I'd want more than that.
<3 JSRF. Such a fun game. Good music too. I want that game, badly.JSRF <3 My previous one was from JGR, but I guess nobody recognized Gum~
I'll concede the frame point, but you have to remember that Top Player X=/=Top Player Y in terms of skill. Thus, Top Player X can still beat Top Player Y despite the match up. However, since you do say Top Players, I'm guessing that if Top Player Y never wins, the match up is more against the character of Top Player Y.
Thanks for answering the question btw. I can see how you draw your logical conclusions instead of simply using the "experience" card now.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I'd say Atomsk and NEO are extremely close in skill. They both have very similar accomplishments, place around the same, etc. I've played them both and find them both to be about even.
NEO has lost to Atomsk's Dedede multiple times and can't seem to even win a match usually, let alone a set.
When I mained Marth, Atomsk and I were quite close in skill. He won every set besides 1 after becoming a good player.
This is why I think Dedede clearly wins the match-up, probably 60/40.
Of course I actually know all the stats and stuff and can debate the match-up on paper, but I care significantly more about what happens in reality when top players face each other.
NEO has lost to Atomsk's Dedede multiple times and can't seem to even win a match usually, let alone a set.
When I mained Marth, Atomsk and I were quite close in skill. He won every set besides 1 after becoming a good player.
This is why I think Dedede clearly wins the match-up, probably 60/40.
Of course I actually know all the stats and stuff and can debate the match-up on paper, but I care significantly more about what happens in reality when top players face each other.
toon_marth
Smash Ace
it's so amazing how one spammy little character can cause so much conflict.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Do you really think he based that on tournament results? I mean, if he bases this on facts (not like: he's good) Mew2King doesn't know as much about smash as I expected him to and this should not be trusted. And I was talking about this specific subject, not "Dojo in texas blablabla bull**** I only give examples".
Inui
Banned via Warnings
It's obviously more intelligent to base your opinion of someone's skill on results, how they do against everyone else, and your own judgment. Mew2King intelligently uses every aspect of a player to judge them, not just how they do against him.
Natch
Smash Ace
So, what can Peach do? What is the exact match up ratio for MK
each and Snakeeach? I'd like to know.Moving on.
If you would, please adress the following. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just asking for more details, or why something might matter. Think of it as a discussion.
You said Dark.Pch has no good Snakes to fight. Ignoring the fact that this might be false, how does that affect his knowledge of the matchup? If this matchup can be as bad as 70:30, as you say, even a half decent player could put up a fight. According to you, Snake completly ***** Peach. Dark.Pch would have to figure how he can win this. I've put myself in matchups even as bad as 20:80 often enough to know how it feels. You have to know those types of matchups inside and out to stand a chance, while the person with the advantage doesn't have to worry about knowing the matchup that well. They can play more or less like they normally do, and they'll be fine typically.
Just throwing that out there. If any of this is incorrect, could you tell me what I got wrong and what the real answer is? I want to make sure I got my facts straight.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I think it's 70/30 MK and 65/35 Snake.So, what can Peach do? What is the exact match up ratio for MK
Ok.
Dark.Pch indeed doesn't fight any good Snakes normally. That is why when he played Ether, a decent Snake that is by no means a top player at all, he lost. Ether said he didn't really know the match-up at all, but he won anyways, and when he looks back on it, he feels that Snake has a significant advantage.
Yeah and when Niko played Ally, he took him down to his last stock and blah-Icannamedroptoo-blah. Chu also 2-stocked you, how's that for anecdotal evidence. lol. Drop it already. M2k disagrees. Some more name dropping for good measure! Humble players make the world go round.
@aeghrur (how did you come up with such a name lol)
Aisle 10 (hello allison) - Scapegoat wax.
I really like Fly like a butterfly too, and all them funky songs lol. The game got me into aggro skate and those songs always get me pumped ^_^
@aeghrur (how did you come up with such a name lol)
Aisle 10 (hello allison) - Scapegoat wax.
I really like Fly like a butterfly too, and all them funky songs lol. The game got me into aggro skate and those songs always get me pumped ^_^
Aisle 10 was by far the best song in JSRF.
Aisle 10 is a good song, one of my faves too. xD
I personally don't really like Fly like a Butterfly, it ain't bad though. The lyrics are funny too, lol.
I like The Scrappy too. God, that game was full of good music IMO. I hated Glory and Hope though.
Seriously, the game needs a sequel, I just hope it wouldn't disappoint.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
Honestly since this mk debate started. almost you just nit picking posts to find something for the sake of arguing. you find little inconsequential items in someones arguments, and just focus and try and revolve it around them for whatever reason.
ex: you nit pick inuis arguments, which make allot of sense. and its obvious he knows what hes talking about, however he packages it like garbage and he is a elitist many times. however the things he sais that are actually intelligent and are the focus of the argument you ignore, or bypass.
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seperate from what i said above
people need to stop arguing. Good players need to try and not rude to the lower players. And the lower players need to Listen to the better ones, they do know what theyre talking about. Im not saying take what they tell you without question. thats ********
However show some respect. If the fact that inui (example) has high level matchup experience, has consistently placed well AND can provide good reasons why in ACTUAL MATCHES what the matchup ratio should be isnt good enough for you, then you have issues.
I encourage debate. i encourage questioning things. but i feel that ignoring someones credibility diminishes them as a person and is extremely rude.
when you hire someone for a job, you look at their record, and resume. someone that has gone to harvard, and gotten top grades is going to get hired over someone straight out of highschool with Bs and Cs.
Part of the reason i feel inuis ego is out of hand sometimes, is because people keep acting like he is some random player.
Orion, Shadowlink has said many times that he's asking these questions out of curiosity, not trying to proof anything/ start a conflict. So please let's drop that now...you're coming across as a idiot being defensive on behalf of people who don't see shadowlink's behavior as wrong.
Also, people need to keep arguing, just without the being stupid part.
Also, people need to keep arguing, just without the being stupid part.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Edit3: Wait why am I making a wall of text? I'll just put it simple and concise.
You're wrong.
Primarily because as St viers pointed out, it was a question and two, when inui has made a valid argument it has been addressed.
As for why inui gets looked upon so negatively, that is a result of his own behavior not because he is another player of smash. (a very good one mind you)
You're wrong.
Primarily because as St viers pointed out, it was a question and two, when inui has made a valid argument it has been addressed.
As for why inui gets looked upon so negatively, that is a result of his own behavior not because he is another player of smash. (a very good one mind you)
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
resized for emphasis
the part that is resized in the first section is what makes it hard to to what is resized is the 2nd section.
Inui just needs to realise that if he wants to be respected, he needs to respect other people, regardless of the reaction he gets to that.
because rep is not only gained by winning or placing high, its gained by how you carry yourself as well.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I agree with the above statement.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
I bet if MK was banned, Sonic would be at least mid tier....
Master Raven
Smash Master
That doesn't even make any sense. Sonic and just about any other character remains static whether MK is existing or not.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Absolutely false.
Characters' tournament viability is detirimined almost entirely by match-ups with popular characters.
While Sonic might not see a major effect, a number of things MK hard counters or close to hard counters will probably.
For example, Marth will be improved signifigantly.
Sharky
Smash Master
I'm interested in seeing how the DK vs MK match-up changes with the new momentum canceling with DK's up-b. =)
Daimonster
Smash Journeyman
MK vs DK on jungle japes is hell. You can trust that. If the DK knows how to stop tornado effectively...it's very hard to win. Another tough match for MK is facing marth on Castle Siege.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Care to explain this? It may be just me, but I really don't see how Marth beats MK on Castle Siege. I can't think of any advantages MK has on Marth on that stage.
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