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Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
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ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Anyways!
I was watching Robot Chicken and I wept with laughter.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
It's true. None of you are even good enough to apply what you're talking about in real matches against top players. This "on paper" stuff that gives Peach some sort of hope against MK and Snake doesn't matter. She is ***** badly in practice and real top players agree on this. Also, people think Marth vs Dedede is close. Atomsk thinks is 60/40 Dedede. So do I. This is based on him fighting NEO, the best Marth, and never losing. It's also based on him ****** my Marth for several months back when I mained Marth. Real stuff. Of course, this isn't good enough for RandomPlayerX7643.
CO18
Smash Hero
I dont think Peach is ***** by MK and Snake. Most top peaches dont consider Mk that hard and find other random matchups much harder such as wolf.
Like Edrees and NikoK.
But yeah Dedede Vs Marth is 60:40.
Ftilt, Bair, Grab all day son.
Inui, it doesn't matter what you say. Like I said, I'm not buying your crap just because you're the "elite". I very much enjoy not being a tool, whatcha gon do about it ;]. And that Peach tangent wasn't even the point of my original post. You just proved I was right by shrugging it off and taking cover under your elite tent. Today the sky is blue, tomorrow it'll be orange if you claim it so. You'll always be right under any circumstances. And when we'll argue over your reasoning, you'll back off and whip out the everything but uncommon king-of-the-world card. There are ways to earn respect, that's not one of them ;D.
<3Love<3Love
<3Love<3Love
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
In science, you reputation comes second to the argument and data presented.
if the best you can do is state "from my experience..." then you cannot expect what you have said to be taken seriously.
Its like me flipping a coin 100 times, getting heads 100 times and then dictating that the chance of getting heads is 100%.
No matter how good of a player you are, your argument is not validated by your background.
You make it sound as if high level /top level players are infallible. They aren't, m2k stated Snake's Dtilt to be longer than MK's which was proven wrong.
They are human.
Of course what you say is true, those theories no matter how well supported don't always work out as they should, that cannot be helped. Thats is because you just cannot take into account those factors.
Mindgames being a prime example.
There is no way to dictate what mindgames will work because they go on an individual basis.
Maybe the better player lost because he was sick.
Maybe someone lost when committing SDs.
It is because of those factors that you cannot rely on your experience alone. They do aid in supporting your argument, but do not automatically validate your claims.
So kindly quit the elitist behavior Inui.
Its unbecoming of you.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
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- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
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- 2191-8960-7738
lol, I love the odd names you make up.
foxandfalcomaster666 was a better one though. :x
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
it's misinformation anyway, even on paper peach gets ***** by both of them. it doesn't matter that she can combo snake at low percents when he's living like 80-100% longer than she is and is totally outclassed otherwise...and she really has nothing on meta knight at all. the problem is that on paper you can kind of argue anything no matter how ridiculous it is, I could put forth a semi convincing argument that ganondorf counters meta knight if I wanted to, but it would be blatantly false and really stupid.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
=/
So basically you're calling Bento, Edreeses, NikoK and a several peach mainers liars.
Last I saw, when AZ made the argument about Diddy being a counter, no one listened to him but look at things now.
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
lie implies intent, I'm just saying that it's pretty clear that snake and MK have an advantage on peach, I didn't assume anything about why people would say otherwise.
and then there were the people who said yoshi and bowser could counter meta knight, it goes both ways, and doesn't mean a whole lot until it has been proven.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Actually Bowser has some great tools against Meta Knight in general. When he can utilize his Grab Release to Fair effectively such as on FD, he can really even his odds.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
lol Well, at least Bowser has a couple of ways to deal with Tornado -spam- (though of course moderate and intelligent use of tornado is much more problematic), but true I'd never say he gets better than a slightly disadvantaged matchup with Meta due to gay things that can happen to a character with his size and type of recovery.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
out of 136,000 members, 811+ are scrubs.
Well thats good to know.
Well thats good to know.
Lol bro thats why I just stay away from the brawl boards 99% of the time. **** gets frustrating as hell.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I don't believe bento said they went nuetral. just that the advantage those respective characters have isn't great.
Not really because the only side that attempted to prove their argument were the Bowser and Yoshi mains, everyone just made an assumption of them being wrong which is bad.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
point is every one loses to MK except snake and even then it not conclusive no matter who wants to believe what, whose favor the match is in.
and whoever said Edrees and niko k arent top players is an effing moron
and whoever said Edrees and niko k arent top players is an effing moron
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Edrees is my favorite Smasher ever.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
When was the last time they placed top 5 at a tourney that mattered?
Exactly.
Maybe top peach players, but not top players overall.
No offense meant to either of them.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
So M2k would be a player who would know more about Peach's capabilities than the top Peach users?
Sounds iffy.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
I never said that. Of course not.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I know you're not I am just pestering you.
I do however do disagree with what you said.
Even if they may not be top level players, would their input on the match be considered lesser in spite of their arguments?
Just curious not attacking you or anything.
Top 5? So placing 7th out of 112 at HOBO 11 didn't matter at all? That's some pretty harsh criteria there.
And Snakee's been doing so well that he gets to count as a top player?
Maybe he's just a top ZSS player and shouldn't be used as an example of ZSS being effective against MK any more than Edrees counts for knowing Peach's matchups...
(Why am I picking on Snakee? Because Inui referred to him as proof that ZSS does well when played at a high level but as far as I can find he hasn't done anything more than these people you're so casually discarding.)
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
No of course not. Because they are not top players, does not mean they are bad.
They didn't profit. You can place 7th at a tourney with 2000 people, not profit, and it won't mean anything except for the fact that you may be improving, or something else. This is how I've seen things for years, and not just with smash.
I've heard of this guy, but I can't stand brawl, and really don't keep up with that many people from it.
You don't usually win any money from placing top 5, either. Criteria of "you're only any good if you place top 5 at a NATIONAL LEVEL tournament" is a pretty big diss, especially considering Edrees typically places top 4 and gets money in Cali tourneys.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I wouldn't call Niko_K a top player.
I've also noticed a trend with characters. Mains of actually broken top tier characters underrate their characters a lot while mains of horrendously bad characters overrate their characters. Snake mains underrate how broken Snake is and make up all of these "bad" matches for him while Peach and Mario mains try to say their character matters when it really doesn't.
Yes.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
Like I said, I don't keep up with brawl, outside of FL tourneys and events my crew holds/places at. I don't keep up with CA tourneys either, the last one I kept up with was pretty big(forgot the name), and he got 13th I think.
I also said I meant no disrespect to either of them. Edrees. Hes a great melee player, and probably a great brawl player too.
But my opinion of top is quite different from others.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Moderator?
Ankoku leveled up
You're basically saying something like this:
"I eat very spicy food all the time, so I consider moderately spicy food bland. Therefore if you say the food has spices I'll disagree unless it's really, really spicey."
It doesn't actually mean the food has no spices, and similarily you're just arguing because you have your own personal definition of "top player" that wasn't what was intended in the post you started replying to.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
Thats a pretty bad metaphor.
I'm not arguing about it. If you read my posts you would understand what I'm saying.
I did read your posts, you're saying that you only consider someone a top player if they win money at tournaments, ignoring how many people were present or how good those other people were.
The metaphor was relatively accurate based on what I can tell of your opinion.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
niko k placed top 5 at the last big canada tourney i believe...
@ inui, putting peach and mario in the same league is direspectful
peach is a pretty good character, and i thought she cracked top ten in ankokus list.
if not top 10 then definitely top 15
either way mario isnt even close to those kinds of numbers
@ inui, putting peach and mario in the same league is direspectful
peach is a pretty good character, and i thought she cracked top ten in ankokus list.
if not top 10 then definitely top 15
either way mario isnt even close to those kinds of numbers
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
No, not only that. There are obviously other aspects in play. Who else was there? Do they know any other aspects of the game? etc etc I didn't mean thats the only part of it.
Bred?
lolwut?
Tell me how:
doesn't translate into something pretty near that example I gave (If it's not *really* spicey it's bland -- if you don't earn money, you're not a top player.)
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Arg I tried to edit it as fast I could to avoid people seeing my shameful typo lol
Also: Even when a Straw Man is an accurate comparison, it is still a straw man.
Also: Even when a Straw Man is an accurate comparison, it is still a straw man.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
And? This means he's some world class top player how? I'm not denying that he's good, but he's probably not top.
Peach is about as valid as Mario. She's probably just one tier higher, but still C tier, which isn't good at all. Peach does better because Edrees is God, Dark.Pch ***** noob tournaments(not saying he's bad, but he doesn't take out big names), and Niko_K does decently in Canada.
Peach is still not able to win huge tournaments with good players there. She is limited by the presense of top Snakes and top MKs in that situation.
This makes Edrees a top player, right? Because that's the only thing I was arguing for.
Anonymous.
Smash Lord
I'm not an idiot. I know that what I said was inaccurate, but that's all I said. I didn't add the other points.
I mean look at Isai. He would be a top player, but he doesn't play seriously anymore.
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